Reversal of roles - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sir Kohran · 10-13-2006, 03:03 PM

Having been involved in some of the SBS threads, I have been thinking about the differences in the movies a lot lately, and in particular, the alteration of Faramir.

In the books, specifically The Fellowship Of The Ring, Boromir comes across as gruff, and frankly rather insolent. He talks roughly and practically, allows his patriotism in Gondor to become xenophobia towards the other races, and we're told his main focus in life is on fighting. He falls prey to the Ring relatively easily and fails his role in the Fellowship, driving Frodo and Sam away. When we meet Faramir, in The Two Towers - he is virtually the opposite. He is wise, thoughtful and intellectual, and speaks 'handsomely' of his country and the world around it. Whilst briefly tempted by the Ring, he firmly resists it and helps Frodo and Sam on their way as best he can. The two brothers are an obvious contrast.

Now, on these forums, I've heard often about how Boromir seemed more noble in the movies than his book role, and how Faramir seemed more ignorant than his book part (in the second movie, at least, where he treats Frodo and Sam rather badly).

So ultimately, I've come to the conclusion that their characters have been reversed - in the movies, we have a wise, noble Boromir and a rough, simple-minded Faramir. Also, this leads me to ask - if, in the books, Faramir had gone with the Fellowship and Boromir had found Frodo and Sam, would we have ended up with a situation like that of the movies? What are your thoughts?

CSteefel · 10-14-2006, 11:46 AM

I wouldn't say they have been reversed, since Boromir still makes most of his speeches about the need to use the ring and he does lose control in the end and try to take the Ring from Frodo (unlike Faramir, who could have taken the Ring while in Ithilien). However, the movie does have Faramir taking Frodo to his Father, which then denies the "wisdom" that Faramir has in the book. He finally comes to his senses in Osgiliath, although it is not quite clear what it is that transpires there that makes him understand.

MatthewM · 10-15-2006, 05:24 PM

I have to disagree about book Boromir being "insolate". Indeed he is a fighter, and "cared little for lore, save the tales of old battles" (Letters, p. 1032), and sometimes may have come across as too blunt or pompous. But in his defense, like I've said before, he was thrown into the situation of being with races he has never dealt with (and, in the case of hobbits) never knew to have actually existed. He didn't even know for sure where Rivendell was-

"...and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.” (The Fellowship of the Ring, p. 240)

In Gondor and Rohan Boromir was praised beyond belief. It seems from Eomer's words after hearing of the death of Boromir that it wasn't just because of his strength in battle-

"That was a worthy man! All spoke his praise. He came seldom to the Mark, for he was ever in the wars on the East-borders; but I have seen him. More like to the swift sons of Eorl than to the grave Men of Gondor he seemed to me, and likely to prove a great captain of his people when his time came." (The Two Towers, p. 425)

that quote to me implies a sense of a sociable behavior from Boromir amongst his friends. So taking all this into account, Boromir is thrust into a situation he thought he could keep his cool in (as we all know he openly disagreed with not using the Ring, being the warrior he was and revolving life around arms) with races he seldom knew dwelt (Elves) and races he didn't even know truly existed outside of tales (Hobbits). Not to mention...Gandalf comes and goes as he pleases in Gondor and tries to tell Boromir's father how to govern his city, and Aragorn is a cultured man who has seen many years and differences amongst people.

My conclusion is that part of Boromir's "rudeness" to some of The Fellowship and their decisions was because he wasn't completely trustworthy of them. He was Gondor's greatest, and these people claiming above him made him a little stiff. Obviously, Boromir did have some issues on what life was all about, as we see his brother Faramir quite different than his brother. However, I think it's unfair to say that PJ "switched" the role of the brothers, I've never seen it that way, as book Boromir definitely comes across in Sean Bean movie Boromir. Plus, there's an article out that claims it wasn't movie Faramir's fault for being different...it was Frodo's. If I find the link and your interested I'll let you know. Think about it...Frodo told the truth the whole time in the book to Faramir, did he not? What does he do in the movie? Visciously lies through his teeth!

calandil · 10-26-2006, 07:19 AM

i just love faramir in the books,in the movies he ismade to look like a obsessive freak who will do just about anything for his fathers love.pj spoiled him

doug*platypus · 11-15-2006, 08:06 PM

I agree with CSteefel... the roles were not reversed. We simply lost most of the character of Faramir from the book. In line with PJs sweeping theme of the weakness of men, almost all nobility from the race of men was removed. They are all victims of some weakness or another.

The essential difference in the actions of the two brothers was maintained. Boromir tried to take the Ring, whereas Faramir (eventually, and with little explanation as stated by CSteefel, let It go). Faramir did not aid Frodo as he did in the book, but he did let him go about his business.

sassyfriend · 09-29-2011, 06:39 PM

Did not like Frodo in movie at all he lies to Faramir and he whines too much!

10-13-2006, 03:03 PM	#1
Sir Kohran Wight Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: England, UK Posts: 178	Reversal of roles Having been involved in some of the SBS threads, I have been thinking about the differences in the movies a lot lately, and in particular, the alteration of Faramir. In the books, specifically The Fellowship Of The Ring, Boromir comes across as gruff, and frankly rather insolent. He talks roughly and practically, allows his patriotism in Gondor to become xenophobia towards the other races, and we're told his main focus in life is on fighting. He falls prey to the Ring relatively easily and fails his role in the Fellowship, driving Frodo and Sam away. When we meet Faramir, in The Two Towers - he is virtually the opposite. He is wise, thoughtful and intellectual, and speaks 'handsomely' of his country and the world around it. Whilst briefly tempted by the Ring, he firmly resists it and helps Frodo and Sam on their way as best he can. The two brothers are an obvious contrast. Now, on these forums, I've heard often about how Boromir seemed more noble in the movies than his book role, and how Faramir seemed more ignorant than his book part (in the second movie, at least, where he treats Frodo and Sam rather badly). So ultimately, I've come to the conclusion that their characters have been reversed - in the movies, we have a wise, noble Boromir and a rough, simple-minded Faramir. Also, this leads me to ask - if, in the books, Faramir had gone with the Fellowship and Boromir had found Frodo and Sam, would we have ended up with a situation like that of the movies? What are your thoughts? __________________ 'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.'

10-15-2006, 05:24 PM	#3
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	I have to disagree about book Boromir being "insolate". Indeed he is a fighter, and "cared little for lore, save the tales of old battles" (Letters, p. 1032), and sometimes may have come across as too blunt or pompous. But in his defense, like I've said before, he was thrown into the situation of being with races he has never dealt with (and, in the case of hobbits) never knew to have actually existed. He didn't even know for sure where Rivendell was- "...and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.” (The Fellowship of the Ring, p. 240) In Gondor and Rohan Boromir was praised beyond belief. It seems from Eomer's words after hearing of the death of Boromir that it wasn't just because of his strength in battle- "That was a worthy man! All spoke his praise. He came seldom to the Mark, for he was ever in the wars on the East-borders; but I have seen him. More like to the swift sons of Eorl than to the grave Men of Gondor he seemed to me, and likely to prove a great captain of his people when his time came." (The Two Towers, p. 425) that quote to me implies a sense of a sociable behavior from Boromir amongst his friends. So taking all this into account, Boromir is thrust into a situation he thought he could keep his cool in (as we all know he openly disagreed with not using the Ring, being the warrior he was and revolving life around arms) with races he seldom knew dwelt (Elves) and races he didn't even know truly existed outside of tales (Hobbits). Not to mention...Gandalf comes and goes as he pleases in Gondor and tries to tell Boromir's father how to govern his city, and Aragorn is a cultured man who has seen many years and differences amongst people. My conclusion is that part of Boromir's "rudeness" to some of The Fellowship and their decisions was because he wasn't completely trustworthy of them. He was Gondor's greatest, and these people claiming above him made him a little stiff. Obviously, Boromir did have some issues on what life was all about, as we see his brother Faramir quite different than his brother. However, I think it's unfair to say that PJ "switched" the role of the brothers, I've never seen it that way, as book Boromir definitely comes across in Sean Bean movie Boromir. Plus, there's an article out that claims it wasn't movie Faramir's fault for being different...it was Frodo's. If I find the link and your interested I'll let you know. Think about it...Frodo told the truth the whole time in the book to Faramir, did he not? What does he do in the movie? Visciously lies through his teeth! __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

10-26-2006, 07:19 AM	#4
calandil Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15	good point i just love faramir in the books,in the movies he ismade to look like a obsessive freak who will do just about anything for his fathers love.pj spoiled him

11-15-2006, 08:06 PM	#5
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I agree with CSteefel... the roles were not reversed. We simply lost most of the character of Faramir from the book. In line with PJs sweeping theme of the weakness of men, almost all nobility from the race of men was removed. They are all victims of some weakness or another. The essential difference in the actions of the two brothers was maintained. Boromir tried to take the Ring, whereas Faramir (eventually, and with little explanation as stated by CSteefel, let It go). Faramir did not aid Frodo as he did in the book, but he did let him go about his business. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

10-14-2006, 11:46 AM	#2
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	I wouldn't say they have been reversed, since Boromir still makes most of his speeches about the need to use the ring and he does lose control in the end and try to take the Ring from Frodo (unlike Faramir, who could have taken the Ring while in Ithilien). However, the movie does have Faramir taking Frodo to his Father, which then denies the "wisdom" that Faramir has in the book. He finally comes to his senses in Osgiliath, although it is not quite clear what it is that transpires there that makes him understand.

09-29-2011, 06:39 PM	#6
sassyfriend Wight Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 165	Did not like Frodo in movie at all he lies to Faramir and he whines too much!