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#1 | |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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This chapter could have been titled "The Breaking of the Fellowship Part 2"; now that the Quest has been completed and the celebrations are over, we get the feeling that this is the final act and that everything is being wrapped for the conclusion. Everyone goes home, life gets back to normal - yet nothing is the same!
It is right for the adventurers to wish to return home; as Aragorn says, trees are not intended to be transplanted. (By the way, speaking of trees, does the second sentence of the chapter give you the impression that there is a direct connection between Arwen's singing and the growth of the White Tree?) We see the contrast between the two truths throughout this chapter - belonging home and yet changing. The formerly humble, unknown and unimportant hobbits are now famous; Théoden returns to his kingdom dead, and Éomer is King; Aragorn is still their friend, yet has his place in Gondor and will no longer be with them. The bond between Frodo and Bilbo is shown by the strong desire Frodo has to see his relative again. This chapter includes quite a few important references to things that are much discussed among Tolkien readers. First of all is Arwen's gift of her place in the ship westwards, and the jewel - not as a ticket, but it does have a function. What's your opinion on that? We also have a delightful passage that harks back to Éomer's and Gimli's dispute concerning Galadriel in TTT. I like the fact that Tolkien did not forget this bit and resolved it here. His humourous dialogues for the characters are wonderfully subtle. Another important, brief reference - Aragorn's declaration concerning the Druadan Forest. Théoden's burial and the following feast bring the Rohan part of the story to a close, ending with the betrothal of Faramir and Éowyn. We read a fragment of the poem concerning Théoden's deeds - how does it affect you? The situation between Aragorn and Éowyn is also resolved at the end of this passage. Are you satisfied with the outcome, or would you have liked more or a different resolution? Did you suspect the importance of Éowyn's gift to Merry when you first read this chapter? More loose ends being tied up - Legolas and Gimli visit first the Glittering Caves, then Fangorn together. We revisit Treebeard at Isengard, though one rather important loose end remains. What is important to you here? The Fellowship begins to disintegrate - sad? Saruman reappears with Gríma, foreshadowing the coming events in the Shire. What do you think of his attitude? Would there have been a chance of repentence and forgiveness for him/them yet? Saruman appears to have lost some of his power, for his voice is broken. He still does have the ability to see more than others. There are clues to what is going on in the Shire. What might have happened had the hobbits gone home directly instead of staying so long in Rivendell? Could they have prevented some of the damage? Why doesn't Gandalf predict that? Another brief yet important, much discussed passage comes next - the silent communication between the Elves. We know more about osanwë from other sources, though it is not named here. Then comes Rivendell and Bilbo. We see some entries for the 'Book of Records' ![]() We have another gift-giving, by Bilbo. Any thoughts or comments? There's also a newly revised version of "The Road goes ever on" - what do you think of the changes? With the farewell to Rivendell and Bilbo, the chapter ends and the five remaining companions leave. Elrond foresees another ending. I noticed for the first time consciously that it is mentioned that he blessed them! A long chapter, and much content - I look forward to your thoughts! On a personal note, I'd like to close with a few of my favourite lines - there are a number of them in this chapter: Quote:
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#2 | |||||||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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This seems at first a very strange chapter, filled with odds and ends, without any centre or building towards a highpoint. Yet it has to be a chapter of decline, of disintegration as that is what is happening in the story. Not only is the Fellowship breaking up for the last time, with people gradually peeling away from the procession until very few are left, but this is the end of cultures, of Lorien and Rivendell, and the end of the Ents too.
In this chapter the story is slowly moving out of the mythic and back towards the more familiar Shire. In fact, the central idea I got from this chapter is that this is where the adventure all stops being crrent experience and slowly starts turning into story. There are numerous references to story and how it is used. I'm becoming more impressed by the oral literature of the Rohirrim, and that they clearly place stories as very important in their culture; here we actually meet the storywriters: Quote:
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The next mention of story is at Isengard: Quote:
The next mention is from Galadriel who refers to both old stories and future stories: Quote:
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Finally the chapter turns to Bilbo, who I think is the most famous (or infamous?) storyteller we have met. Quote:
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#3 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,990
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After the excellent opening posts of Estelyn and Lalwendë, my own thoughts will be but scattered and brief.
I think Lal's observation about the thematic importance of story in this chapter is wonderfully suggestive. This is part of the source of the wistfulness in this chapter, the winding down of adventure and the contemplation of its translation into story. These coments suggest one very important reason why the Jackson interpretation could not capture all of Tolkien, for part of Tolkien's theme has been story after all, and that aspect does not blend well with the action-adventure movie genre. I have just a few observations to make. First, Celeborn's farewell to Aragorn, replete with sadness, even tragic longing, worthy of a longer story: Quote:
For myself, I don't quite know just how believable this Saruman is. I suppose readers do need to see his maliciousness and pettyness. And obviously Tolkien felt that the tale of good and evil required that we see mercy held out to Saurman and it refused. Is this a depiction of the sardonic cynic? Bilbo seems to prefer to write poetry now rather than story, we are told. I rather fancy this is a very much an unfair representation of poetry as somehow shorter and simpler! However, his recitation of "The Road goes ever on" raises a thought: What is the function or purpose of the poetry in the story? Does the poetry advance the plot or does it satisfy more some sort of emotional function? When do characters 'break out into song/poetry' and why?
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#4 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Gordon's alive!
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#5 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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Quick point. I always have a sadness for Treebeard in this Chapter, not for his farewlls to the hobbits, but because HOW CLOSE he got to picking up a clue that entwives might be in the Shire.
Why oh why did he have to take Merry and Pippin aside when he asked them to pass on news of any entwives that might be around the Shire? If only Sam was within earshot - he would have no doubt told Treebeard about the 'Tree men...seen up away beyond the North Moors' he mentioned to Ted Sandyman in the Green Dragon. This just adds to the melancholy of Treebeard. He was THAT CLOSE to perhaps finding his Entwives again............ |
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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This is a chapter of endings & partings - as others have pointed out already. As with the previous chapter Frodo appears little - though the cahpter begins & ends with him.
We begin with him seeking out Aragorn & Arwen, who are sitting beneath the White Tree of Gondor. Arwen sings of Valinor - a place she has never seen & now never will see. Its odd that she would sing of the place she has given up forever, but as one of the Half Elven we must assume that she has had the yearning for Valinor in her heart for most of her life. Ever since Legolas heard the cry of the Gulls at Pelargir he has felt a yearning to go into the West & at times it has seemed to overwhelm his thoughts. This little vignette sums up Arwen’s story perfectly. She sits beneath the White Tree, an image of Telperion, & sings iabout the Undying Lands - her Elven heritage will be simply that from now on: image, memory & song. She has chosen mortality & in the end that is all she herself will become. She gives Frodo both a white jewel (which is only like a star, unlike the gift given to Frodo by her Grandmother which contained the blazing light of the Silmaril, for Arwen is now mortal & can no longer bestow magical gifts) & her place on the Last Ship. Tolkien discussed this gift in his letters & states that Arwen could not have just ‘handed over her ticket’ to Frodo. It seems that she must have discussed it with Gandalf, who authorised it. Again we see the limits imposed by mortality. It seems though, that she has not lost either her insight or foresight: Quote:
Something that happens on the way back to Rohan I found interesting: Quote:
The funeral of Theoden is a classic Anglo-Saxon one - the songs, the riders. It is almost a straight lift from Beowulf - as was his death on the Pelennor, with the Fell Beast standing in for the Dragon & Eowyn for Wiglaf. The setting & the similarities to the A-S epic serve to link Middle-earth to English history & myth, for it wouldn’t just call to mind Beowulf but also Sutton Hoo & the, at the time of writing, recent discoveries made there. As far as Hobbits are concerned it is Merry who takes the dominant role in this chapter. He recieves the gift of the horn from Eomer, he stands forward & says goodbye to Theoden, after riding on the wain & bearing the king’s arms. Again we see Merry’s similarity to Bilbo - he set out wanting to see the wide world, & ends up in posession of ‘treasure’ from a Dragon’s hoard. It all seems as if things are winding down to a ‘happy ever after’ ending. But then we come to Isengard. Treebeard has released Saruman. Did Gandalf suspect he would? After all Saruman did to the Ents Treebeard’s freeing of him seems strange. Did Saruman ‘persuade’ the Ent to let him go? Whatever, it is clear that he is still out there. There are only two possible fates for him - either he will wander off & become a wandering conjuror - a joke, a ‘how are the mighty fallen’ lesson for the people of Middle-earth, or he will play some significant part in the coming events. What he would not do is just repent & become... what? Actually, Tolkien did play with the idea of making him repent - specifically when Merry gives him tobacco later on - but he decided it would take more than that to make him change his ways. Saruman would rather, it seems, gloat over the sufferings of others (‘Misery loves company’), & if they are not actually suffering he will try to convince them they are. What he cannot get into his head, it seems, is that he is not a ‘power’ any longer. He’s a broken loser, but won’t see it. He still expects to be treated with awe & respect, In fact, he becomes increasingly pathetic: One of the Maiar, an Ainur who sang the world into being in the Great Music ends up stealing a tobacco pouch from a Hobbit - & his end will be worse. Esty has already mentioned the use of Osanwe (or is it ‘Sanwe’) among Gandalf & the Elves: Quote:
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We end with the meeting up again with Bilbo, the ‘de-briefing’ of the Hobbits & the gift giving. Bilbo’s gifts are perfectly suitable - gold for Sam, the poorest of them (just what he needs to start a family), good advice for those cocky young so-&-so’s Merry & Pippin, & his books (stories & histories) for Frodo. Bilbo has become so much like a monk in a peaceful monastery, living among books & surrounded by Elves. Although a Hobbit its clear that he belongs here, rather than in the Shire. Its clear that it is a dangerous business, stepping into the Road - for Hobbits at least. None of these five will end their days in the Shire, because their experiences make them too ‘big’ for it. Frodo’s response to Sam’s praise of Rivendell: Quote:
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#7 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,990
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At least, this was the scenario I envisioned when I suggested there could be an entire storyline behind his comment.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#8 | ||||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tottering about in the Wild
Posts: 130
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As Esty says, there is a lot of content in this chapter. Musing about ‘Many Partings’, there are so many points where Tolkien describes loss, which contrasts with all the gains in ‘The Steward and the King’. In a way the previous chapter is more of the ‘happily ever after’ the reader expects, while this chapter really focuses on the theme of ‘loss and sacrifice’ which has been present through LOTR, but is more clear from now to the end of the book.
Eomer returns for Theoden’s body. We see the old king being honored for his sacrifice: Quote:
Aragorn and Arwen had their fairy-tale wedding, but now we read Quote:
Gimli becomes positively prophetic in this chapter. When he and Eomer are comparing Arwen and Galadriel, and he says Quote:
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Of the encounter with Saruman – did he decide to head to the Shire after Gandalf and the hobbits caught up with him, or was he already headed there? I can see reasons for either scenario, but I kind of like the idea of him wandering aimlessly until he sees the Hobbits, then bitterly deciding to go ahead and pay a personal visit to the Shire. Of course, there is one important meeting here: the hobbits finally return to Bilbo in Imladris. My own thought is that his failing mental and physical faculties are due to the Ring’s destruction. The ring ‘preserved’ him, so to speak, while he possessed it, and he was showing signs of failing even in FOTR, after he had given it up. Its destruction hastened Bilbo’s own fading. Bilbo's health and mental alertness are yet another loss resulting from the completion of the Quest. Regarding Bilbo’s preference to write only poetry at this point – could that be a reflection of Tolkien’s own admiration for poetry? Perhaps Bilbo, knowing his time was now limited, only wanted to put his efforts into a more noble form of literature (in his & Tolkien’s opinions) than simply writing memoirs or translating lore. (I admire good poetry because I always found it so darn hard to write, lol.) I’m basing this speculation on the fact that Tolkien’s first attempts to write down his mythology were in poems, and he wrote the stories of ‘Luthien and Beren’ and ‘The Children of Hurin’ as epic poems before they were in narrative form in The Silmarillion.
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Not all those who wander are lost . . . because some of us know how to read a map. |
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#9 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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A small thought concerning Bilbo and poetry - Alphaelin wrote:
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#10 | |||
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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This chapter is so very full, and bittersweet! We know that we should be happy that the hobbits may now return home, but that happiness is dampened by having to take leave of all that supported them along the way, almost as if this chapter were a nod from Tolkien acknowledging the reader’s sense of loss at the close of a tale. I think of the finally of Gimli’s statement
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In this chapter we also hear Arwen speak, and she speaks very well, so that we better understand why the new king might have been anxious for the sign he sought in Minas Tirith. We also have the words Gimli spoke to Eomer, that Alphaelin quoted earlier: Quote:
We also have the curious words of Galadriel to Treebeard about the chances of meeting him again. Quote:
It is interesting to note that the three rings of the elves, along with their bearers accompany Frodo a great distance before taking their leave. Gandalf, with his ring of fire, Narya, continues the longest with him, who in a respect has passed through fire. |
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#11 |
Dead Serious
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The emotional response begun for me in "The Steward and the King" continues in "Many Partings," which is a bittersweet journey backward through the lands we covered in the previous books, all the way back to Rivendell. It's a farewell to all the non-Hobbit (and non-Gandalf) characters we've met: Faramir and Eowyn, Theoden, Eomer and Rohan, Treebeard, Saruman and Wormtongue (seemingly), Galadriel and Celeborn. To me, this chapter is as bittersweet as "The Grey Havens," which it foreshadows.
Its title is an echo of "Many Meetings," and it is very much full-circle from that point. "Many Meetings" opened Book II, and it's possible to argue that, structurally, Book I is sort of a different story: a prologue or a prequel: the adventure of the Hobbits getting to Rivendell. If that is so, then "The Lord of the Rings" begins with "Many Meetings," and I would argue it ends with "Many Partings." With the next chapter, we'll be moving, geographically, back into the realm of Book I and towards the conclusion of the overarching story begun with "The Shadow of the Past"--and to the conclusion of the whole saga (this long, complex story has several beginnings and consequently several ends). "Many Meetings" begins with the Hobbits' arrival in Rivendell and "Many Partings" ends with their preparation to depart. "Many Meetings" introduced us to Arwen in thebhouse of her father and introduces us to an Aragorn as "the Dunadan"; "Many Partings" shows us Aragorn and Arwen wed and his kingdom established--and Arwen parting from him. "Many Meetings" begins the story of the pan-Free Peoples Fellowship by introducing Gloin and Gimli at supper while "Many Partings" shows the end of the same story as Gimli and Legolas ride off for Fangorn.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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