Ideas for a' New Silmarillion & Rev. Silmarillion' - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 07-27-2000, 05:43 AM

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for those of you who {29?} silently endured my 3-4 am version of this post I offer one that I hope clears up some confusion I may have spawned.
Any way I will be [almost ] entirely absent for the next week and if I continue to get views w/ no comments [29 must be a record eh chief?] then I will surely get the hint and crawl back into my cave and trouble the world of the downs no more w/ this presumptuous endeavor

btw I tried to change the name of this thread to 'Expanded ' Silmarillion but the edit function won't change the title of even my own thread.
so the 'rev' and 'new' Silm. business reflects an already modified set of ideas.

I give below an expanded version [of part] of my reply to M.Martinez's [ I feel] excellent article on the Canon issue-I definitly encourage all [who may find there way to this obscure corner of co-co-Creation ] to go check it out.
Having pondered the destruction that JRRT's 'final'[Myth's Transformed-{HoME vol.10}] version of the legendarium would cause to not only the SIlmarillion -but as Michael Points out the LotR as well [ I have recently [sinc e I saw a drawing of JRRT 's of the old Sun myth-apparently painted AFTER the idea of 'myth's transformed'] come to favor an 'expanded' Silmarillion wherein all Unfinished Tales and HoME notes /stories and details [that can ]be fitted into the 1977 Silmarillion framework and with the least amount of rewriting possible to avoid contradiction w/ the LotR [and Co.].

So tales such as : the Druedain,Finwe and Miriel/ laws and customs of the Eldar,Finrod and Andreth,
the non-conflicting details from the Lost Tales 'Fall of Gondolin', the wanderings of Hurin , etc. would all find a new home in the Silmarillion framework.

I knowb this will lead to uneven treatment of detail w/ in the same story-but I can live w/ that.
--------------
Here is a rough draft of my current vision of an expanded Silmarillion

*******
AINULINDALE-remain more or less the same
VALAQUENTA-check HoME for additional details/modifications
-----------
QUENTA SILMARILLION
[chapters listed are from 1977 Silmarillion]
all othe chapters not listed would still need to be compared w/ the many versions in the History series.
Below however I list the major texts [or parts ] which I think[at this point at least] can be inserted somehow into the respective chapters.
This is by no means an exhaustive listing ,just a framework to hang further ideas on -or take them off.
Please feel free to monkey around w/ it and put up a new one.
I am hoping to engender discussion -not have the final word.[even about an outline <img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> ].

ch.3] OF THE COMING OF THE ELVES ... add parts of 'Quendi and Eldar'[vol 11]
ch.5] OF ELDAMAR AND THE PRINCES OFTHE ELDALIE add'Finwe and Miriel 'and 'Laws and Customs among the Eldar' {HoME10} or would this be better placed in an appendix ?
ch.6] OF FEANOR AND THE UNCHAINING OF MELKOR add from 'Shibboleth of Feanor'[HoME 12]

ch.13] OF THE RETUPN OF THE NOLDOR add from'Shibboleth of Feanor'[HoME 12]
chs.14 & 15] OF BELERIAND/NOLDOR AND ITS REALMS add from 'Shibboleth of Feanor'[HoME 12]
ch 16] OF MAEGLIN from 'maeglin' in HoME11
ch 17] OF THE COMING OF MEN INTO THE WEST
add from' the Druedain'[Unfinished Tales] and Finrod and Andreth{HoME10}

ch19] OF BEREN AND LUTHIEN add from Lays? [HoME3]

ch 21]OF TURIN TURAMBAR addthe 'Narn I Chin Hurin' [Unfinished Tales} and 'Wanderings of Hurin' [HoME 11]
ch.22] OF THE RUIN OF DORIATH
[Eru only, knows what we can do w/ this one<img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> ]

ch.23] OF TOUR AND THE FALL OF GONDOLIN
add of 'Of Tour and his coming to Gondolin [Unfinished Tales ]and details fromHoME 2 [and others?]
=====
I won't try and get into a Second Age/Akallabeth & Of the Rings... outline yet
--------------
To elaborate on what I said before the above proposed additions are just what I know of already and clearly don't address specific details.

</p>Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 8/12/00 2:02:10 am

**lindil** · 08-12-2000, 12:13 AM

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Re: Ideas for a' New Silmarillion & Rev. Silmarillion'

As a related Question - are there any opinions as to the 'Of the Rings of Power and the 3rd Age'
becoming a framework for pretty much all of the 2nd and 3rd age lore -such as 'Galadriel and Celeborn {editing out the contradictions of course}
'Disaster of the Gladden Fields'and the 'Istari' and the like?

</p>

07-27-2000, 05:43 AM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Ideas for a' New Silmarillion & Rev. Silmarillion' <font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 0</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> for those of you who {29?} silently endured my 3-4 am version of this post I offer one that I hope clears up some confusion I may have spawned. Any way I will be [almost ] entirely absent for the next week and if I continue to get views w/ no comments [29 must be a record eh chief?] then I will surely get the hint and crawl back into my cave and trouble the world of the downs no more w/ this presumptuous endeavor btw I tried to change the name of this thread to 'Expanded ' Silmarillion but the edit function won't change the title of even my own thread. so the 'rev' and 'new' Silm. business reflects an already modified set of ideas. I give below an expanded version [of part] of my reply to M.Martinez's [ I feel] excellent article on the Canon issue-I definitly encourage all [who may find there way to this obscure corner of co-co-Creation ] to go check it out. Having pondered the destruction that JRRT's 'final'[Myth's Transformed-{HoME vol.10}] version of the legendarium would cause to not only the SIlmarillion -but as Michael Points out the LotR as well [ I have recently [sinc e I saw a drawing of JRRT 's of the old Sun myth-apparently painted AFTER the idea of 'myth's transformed'] come to favor an 'expanded' Silmarillion wherein all Unfinished Tales and HoME notes /stories and details [that can ]be fitted into the 1977 Silmarillion framework and with the least amount of rewriting possible to avoid contradiction w/ the LotR [and Co.]. So tales such as : the Druedain,Finwe and Miriel/ laws and customs of the Eldar,Finrod and Andreth, the non-conflicting details from the Lost Tales 'Fall of Gondolin', the wanderings of Hurin , etc. would all find a new home in the Silmarillion framework. I knowb this will lead to uneven treatment of detail w/ in the same story-but I can live w/ that. -------------- Here is a rough draft of my current vision of an expanded Silmarillion ******* AINULINDALE-remain more or less the same VALAQUENTA-check HoME for additional details/modifications ----------- QUENTA SILMARILLION [chapters listed are from 1977 Silmarillion] all othe chapters not listed would still need to be compared w/ the many versions in the History series. Below however I list the major texts [or parts ] which I think[at this point at least] can be inserted somehow into the respective chapters. This is by no means an exhaustive listing ,just a framework to hang further ideas on -or take them off. Please feel free to monkey around w/ it and put up a new one. I am hoping to engender discussion -not have the final word.[even about an outline <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ]. ch.3] OF THE COMING OF THE ELVES ... add parts of 'Quendi and Eldar'[vol 11] ch.5] OF ELDAMAR AND THE PRINCES OFTHE ELDALIE add'Finwe and Miriel 'and 'Laws and Customs among the Eldar' {HoME10} or would this be better placed in an appendix ? ch.6] OF FEANOR AND THE UNCHAINING OF MELKOR add from 'Shibboleth of Feanor'[HoME 12] ch.13] OF THE RETUPN OF THE NOLDOR add from'Shibboleth of Feanor'[HoME 12] chs.14 & 15] OF BELERIAND/NOLDOR AND ITS REALMS add from 'Shibboleth of Feanor'[HoME 12] ch 16] OF MAEGLIN from 'maeglin' in HoME11 ch 17] OF THE COMING OF MEN INTO THE WEST add from' the Druedain'[Unfinished Tales] and Finrod and Andreth{HoME10} ch19] OF BEREN AND LUTHIEN add from Lays? [HoME3] ch 21]OF TURIN TURAMBAR addthe 'Narn I Chin Hurin' [Unfinished Tales} and 'Wanderings of Hurin' [HoME 11] ch.22] OF THE RUIN OF DORIATH [Eru only, knows what we can do w/ this one<img src=smile.gif ALT=""> ] ch.23] OF TOUR AND THE FALL OF GONDOLIN add of 'Of Tour and his coming to Gondolin [Unfinished Tales ]and details fromHoME 2 [and others?] ===== I won't try and get into a Second Age/Akallabeth & Of the Rings... outline yet -------------- To elaborate on what I said before the above proposed additions are just what I know of already and clearly don't address specific details. </p>Edited by <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 8/12/00 2:02:10 am __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

08-12-2000, 12:13 AM	#2
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit Posts: 0</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Ideas for a' New Silmarillion & Rev. Silmarillion' As a related Question - are there any opinions as to the 'Of the Rings of Power and the 3rd Age' becoming a framework for pretty much all of the 2nd and 3rd age lore -such as 'Galadriel and Celeborn {editing out the contradictions of course} 'Disaster of the Gladden Fields'and the 'Istari' and the like? </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.