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05-29-2002, 01:06 PM | #1 |
The Kinslayer
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Finarfin's choice
Do you think that Finarfin made the right choice when he decided to stay in Valinor after the Kinslaying in Alqualonde? Didn't he as a noldorian prince, owed to his people to guide them, in this difficult path in ME where all the perils lay ahead for them. Or did his loyalties lay first with the Valar.
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05-29-2002, 01:15 PM | #2 |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
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Reluctantly he did join the revolt of the Nolder, but it wasn't long before he repented and returned to Valinor. He didn't owe it to his people to lead them in the revolt, They were also his people that did no join the revolt, with Finwe dead and his sons gone they had no leader until Finarfin came back.
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05-29-2002, 01:19 PM | #3 | |
The Kinslayer
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In the end, he abandoned his people.
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05-29-2002, 01:26 PM | #4 |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
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Perhaps he was the smart on not to get caught up in their revenge, and it was their own choice to heed the lies Morgoth spread about the Valar oppressing them. Finarfin was the smart one to turn back. Feanor was the one who really deserted his own people when he left them behind.
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*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~* |
05-29-2002, 02:02 PM | #5 | |
The Kinslayer
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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05-30-2002, 12:19 AM | #6 | |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
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Remember also that Feanor had been exiled from Tirion for putting a sword to Fingolfins throat over lies spread by Melkor, when Feanor went into Exile to Formenos Finwe went with him and left his rule of his people to Fingolfin. Finwe deserted his own people also.
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[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Elrian ]
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*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~* |
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05-30-2002, 07:39 AM | #7 |
Wight
Join Date: Apr 2002
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When Finarfin turned back, it meant that all those Noldor who wished to turn back could, without deserting their lords, as there was one they could follow back to Valinor. This laid out a path by which the Noldor could be faithful both to the Valar and to a brother of their royal house. Finarfin would have been realizing the full implications of the kinslaying, as I presume the late comers eventually got around to saying, 'say, why exactly did the Teleri ambush us,' then find out they didn't. After hearing Mandos' words on the subject, Finarfin realized that this path of revenge and conquest, baptized as it was in blood & betrayal, could only lead to a place where the luckiest Noldor would be killed in battle and the unlucky would survive long enough to degrade themselves into little Morgoths.
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05-30-2002, 10:42 AM | #8 | ||
The Kinslayer
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Finarfin went from Alqualonde, where the Kinslaying ocurred, to the Wastes of Araman, where the Doom of the Noldor was spoken. Quite a ride. Why wasn't his abandonment of the voyage made after the Kinslaying and not because of the Doom of Mandos. Finarfin was afraid of the Valar.
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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05-30-2002, 12:30 PM | #9 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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All of you forget that Finarfin was married to a Teleri. It is not nice to tell your wife that you have just slaugthered her kin, and since that isn't enough for you, you're continuing to ME, where other acts of kinslaying was done by the Noldorne, e.g. the destruction of Menegroth.
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05-30-2002, 01:02 PM | #10 | |||
The Kinslayer
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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05-30-2002, 01:39 PM | #11 |
Wight
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Great topic Maedhros - and great name too! Maedhros is my favorite Sil character! However, my opinion differs with yours of Finarfin abandoning his people and being afraid of the wrath of the Valar. I tend to side more with what Nar said about Finarfin not abandoning, but giving his people in Valinor the leader they needed. You say there were no problems in Valinor and they needed no king. But, the High King had just been murdered and the light of trees had gone out. I think those are great wounds that would take much healing for the Noldor who stayed to move past. I think, in their grief, they would look to a leader to help them through. I also believe that, rather than his turning back being a rash decision made only after hearing the Doom of Mandos, that Finarfin's heart was never truly in the journey and that was the last straw. And, as a prince, the decision was not his alone, he had his loyal followers to think of. Finarfin had to ask himself, "Do I want to lead my people into exile? Am I willing to sacrafice their lives for my (or my brother's) pride? What further peril will I take them into?" Perhaps he also thought he could do more good than harm by turning back, making amends with the Teleri and allowing a remnant of the Noldor to live in peace. It could not have been an easy decision since his children did not choose the same path, and he knew it would mean parting with them and his brother.
I have often felt pity for Finarfin, in that he's like Hurin in a way. I've always imagined that he knew, or at least felt a hint, of the woes which befell his family in Middle Earth as they were happening. And, perhaps he always struggled with his reasons for not joining them. Imagine what might have been if he would have been by Fingolfin's side at the gates of Angbad! But instead, he waited in Valinor alone, as his kin returned one by one to the Halls of Waiting.
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05-30-2002, 02:27 PM | #12 | ||||
The Kinslayer
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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05-31-2002, 07:54 AM | #13 |
Wight
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yes great topic maedhros [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
finarfin's choice can indeed be interpreted as one out of fear of the valar, and we can go as far as we can on that. some, on the other hand, might even argue that finarfin's admission of wrongdoing and remorse and ultimate backtracking are acts of courage themselves especially coming from a lord of the proud house of finwe. my impression of the event based on your exact quotes was that the "prophecy of the north" served as a sobering douse of cold water on finarfin who, along with the entire host of the noldor, was seized with a "madness" of a kind, a mixture of kindled pride and the hypnotic heady words of feanor (whose tongue can give saruman a run for his money!) if imagined in the context of many senseless genocides in the world to date, this madness must have anaesthesized the noldor from any rational human feeling against the kinslaying they eventually committed/condoned. now after looking at the crime with eyes wide open, it became a judgement call for finarfin to either stick with the madness or come to his senses, seek penance and save the remainder of his people while he could. imho he was the better man for his choice [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] from a "moral" perspective, i agree though with the standpoint that it would have been more "decent" of finarfin to have forsaken the march during or even after the kinslaying, after which absolution from the valar becomes rather more justifiable. this "lapse" like many others in the silm, nonetheless, are for me necessary imperfections which serve to illustrate the fallability or humanity of both the quendi and the ainur notwithstanding their superior state of existence. that the ainur can be appealled to to forgive; that they can give fair warning before meting out the just desserts of the children of eru; that their timing can become questionable; that the noldor can err tremendously, greviously, and still see through the mistake; that they can bend their knees in contrition and want to be pardoned; that the noldor need second chances, too. my oh my, i think i better bow out before i really get worked up on this!
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05-31-2002, 01:09 PM | #14 | |
Eldar Spirit of Truth
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*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~* |
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05-31-2002, 02:36 PM | #15 | |
The Kinslayer
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HE WAS AFRAID OF THEM.
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
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06-10-2002, 01:39 PM | #16 |
The Kinslayer
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Why, i cry, do Finarfin left his sons. Why did he needed the call of the Valar to return. Why was not the Kinslaying enough. How would have Thingol threated Finarfin in Doriath.
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"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy." |
06-10-2002, 02:18 PM | #17 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I do not think he was afraid of the Valar, the Sil states, that he left because of the kin-slaying. Maybe the words of Mandos just made him think more of what he was doing. And he didn't abandon his sons; They abandoned him (although that was a good thing; Without Finrod and Galadriel ME would not be so much fun). But if Finarfin had come to ME, Thingol would have treated him with great respect, because he was married to Thingol's niece. Thingol has great respect for Galadriel and Finrod, and even calls Finrod the higly beloved.
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