Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think it would be great to kick this off, and I think any previously uninvolved players coming in (or old players coming back) would be a great thing (Mith, Zil, Snowdog)... that might help starting it up.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If we're not in a super-hurry, I think lmp and myself could come up with a short(ish) intro into what has happened before, and maybe some ideas as to where we'd jump.

Although I think it would be nice to have ideas as to where to jump especially from you who have been at the Mead Hall already and have at least a rough idea where we have been thus far.

So which things, relations, general background trends, overall developments etc. you'd like to keep and which you'd rather get rid of?

Any brand new ideas from people who haven't been writing to the Mead Hall previously?

I think time jump sounds reasonable. The main thing would be probably to figure out how is the Mead Hall working now, or what has happened, who is in charge, who is around (maybe the "shuffling of lords" can somehow also account in "shuffling of characters, if we have new players and some older ones are not around) etc. If there's any way I can help with brainstorming, I'm here, although probably the main portion would rest with Nog and LMP, them also being around in the game since its beginnings.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Yes! Count me in.

Aside from a general drop off in writers, I feel like where we really got stuck there at the end was with figuring out what to do with that body that was discovered... I at least didn't have any good ideas.

"Body? What body!!!" <= further proof that I have no recollection whatsoever of what happened.

In either case, I'd be really happy to pick up Hilderinc again and now take up the chance to flesh him out a bit more. Maybe even pick up another random character or former NPC (maybe some of the other fellow soldiers originally invented for background, or who knows) - not that I want to overload myself (now that we have the 'Downs again, a classic trap), but I think more than one character will give me a bit more freedom of interaction also at times when one is "out of sight" of the main happenings (which tended to happen, now that I read back. Of course having one character was intentional when I was starting in the Mead Hall, I didn't want to take too many characters before I knew the place and all, but now I think the situation would be different).

And what happened in the end to Scyrr, the annoying and fighty guy who was originally a NPC, and then I believe several people even "adopted" his character for a time? (Strangely, I think he turned out to get much more personality than some "full-time" characters.) Probably nothing, but he was fun to have around - also a good "catalyser", I'd be for keeping him, whoever handles him. Or, if we do a larger time-jump, it might be even fairly interesting to have characters like him "developed".

In any case, yes. Let's figure out where we want to start off now, first of all.

[Thinlómien]

PS. I have absolutely no idea what has happened in Scarburg during my absence so pardon me if this doesn't make sense, but I would even advocate a longer time jump - 3 years, 5 years, even 10 years - that would open up interesting opportunities for character development and aging up the younger characters (even though I do like tiny Cnebba)...

PPS. I guess the character/player list is not up to date? In any case we will have to update it...

[Nogrod]

I was actually also thinking more like a 3 - 5- 10 year jump - like giving it a good kick forward and then seeing who's still around (oops - a teen-Cnebba would be hilarious - or unbearable).

That would both pose a nice challenge to those who have written there already - to adapt to their characters who are older and maybe the overall situation has also changed - but also give new writers more freedom to come up with their characters.

[Thinlómien]

Also if we're doing a longer time jump and introducing new characters, would we again start a new game thread and a new discussion thread?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

PS. I have absolutely no idea what has happened in Scarburg during my absence so pardon me if this doesn't make sense, but I would even advocate a longer time jump - 3 years, 5 years, even 10 years - that would open up interesting opportunities for character development and aging up the younger characters (even though I do like tiny Cnebba)...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I was actually also thinking more like a 3 - 5- 10 year jump - like giving it a good kick forward and then seeing who's still around (oops - a teen-Cnebba would be hilarious - or unbearable).

That would both pose a nice challenge to those who have written there already - to adapt to their characters who are older and maybe the overall situation has also changed - but also give new writers more freedom to come up with their characters.

I think a longer time jump would actually be great. Will give chance to pick up the old characters and put them into a new perspective by making them grown up again a bit, and also it would make it easier for newer players to join in, of course. But of course, that's all open.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Also if we're doing a longer time jump and introducing new characters, would we again start a new game thread and a new discussion thread?

Hm. A new thread also for discussion might possibly be easier also for those who want to join in, since then one can also neatly sum up the necessary points in the beginning of it, so that people don't have to search for it in tons of old posts on page 199 of 325...

[Firefoot]

Hmmm. For Leof I'd be fine with a longer jump, less sure about Scyld. I could make it work, I guess, though with where I was at with him when the story dropped off, a few years could make a huge difference. For him I'd probably favor something shorter - months? But if we do go longer I think I'd still favor only a couple years, not something drastic like 10.

I'm also toying around with the idea of bringing Leof's sister into play. Not sure but it's been in the back of my mind ever since I started with him. To echo Legate, I don't want to bite of more than I can chew with more characters than I have time to write for.

[Galadriel55]

It just goes to say how much I've forgotten that for one moment I thought, "who's Athanar?" (oh, how I've missed this emoticon ). Anyone any less major I pretty much don't have recollections of. Heck, I couldn't remember my own characters off the top of my head. I have a lot of reviewing to do.

Thinking about my characters, though, I'd say a 3-5 year leap would be better than a 10 year one. I think 10 is a tad too much. As for character development, Ledwyn is a young widow with a 2 year old son, whose husband died in some working accident or other (can't remember who he was) - or so she says. I think I know where she's going. Oh how young and innocent I was when I created her! I could go all Game of Thrones on her, but I don't think that would be fitting here, though I do have a very appropriate twist in mind. But regardless, that doesn't stop her from being young and single, and she's not the only wench around. That should give this gathering of men something to ponder.

As for the general storyline, I think we need a calamity. There's only so much you write about cooking breakfast. I think the last biggie that happened was the trouble with the minor lords (correct me if I'm wrong - my memory is simply marvelous). But even that wasn't really serious. Not as serious as it can get. We should have something where lives are at stake - a war is probably not realistic in the setting, but a full out rebellion could be pulled off. Or a famine. Or some other natural disaster, if human enemies of that golden age aren't really a danger. Any cataclysm would do. Not right away of course - we'd first need to set the stage of how things look X years from now. What do you think?

[Mithalwen]

Oh well if it moved years I might be able to recycle Elfthain. He was only ten before but it isn't inconceivable that he might be away from home as an adolescent.

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Also if we're doing a longer time jump and introducing new characters, would we again start a new game thread and a new discussion thread?

A good reboot into the future with a fresh start and thread and such would be good as I won't be doing much back-reading. I'll intro a character based on the year/time period and do my best to stay on top of the tale. I've been pretty much doing collab. writing with my wife Elora of late so will be a bit rusty.

[Nogrod]

I see some people are unhappy with a too long time-jump (ten years) even if I myself would actually prefer that – to make things new enough for everyone. Maybe we should then do something like a 5-year jump?

I mean I’d really like that we previous writers would need to adjust to a new scene and somewhat new characters as well (a middle-aged person would be becoming old, a kid turning into a teenager, a young adult into a responsible adult etc.). But sure we should go as most of the people wish.


What then might have happened between the time the story ends for now and between the restart?

I think everyone who has written to the story should think about their characters – and everyone should share some thoughts on the general backgorund issues.


~*~

A very short synopsis of the second Mead Hall aka. what we have been writing up to now (the first Mead Hall was a different beast altogether – but if someone would like to reanimate her/his character from there, I think there should be no problem with that).


Now if I remember it correctly the establishing of the (our “second”) Mead Hall in Middle Emnet was an idea of King Eomer to bring the Mid Emnet under the rule of law – and showing the local lords they couldn’t oppress the people around their lands as they pleased. And it was also a gift & a task for lord Eodwine. But with lord Eodwine’s illness king Eomer had to appoint a new lord to the newly established (or actually “in the very early stages of being established”) Mead Hall.

That then ended up with a host of problems both inside the Mead Hall (as those loyal to lord Eodwine and those loyal to the new lord Athanar kind of skirmished it out between themselves) and outside it (the local lords standing up against the rule of king Eomer’s rule via the Mead Hall). The most obvious and immediate outer problems were dealt with, at least initially, by lord Athanar’s boldish action, but the inner tensions didn’t go away even if both lords Athanar and Eodwine (who returned to his wife and the mother of his coming child after being healed) tried to cool things down and tried to work together.

There were a lot of plots and sub-plots involved and many character-stories intertwining there which we should remind ourselves of, if and when some of those characters involved do take part in the new edition of the Mead Hall, or we find some of the possible plots so intriguing we wish to let them make a difference in this situation many years on.


~*~

My intial suggestion would be that we let lord Athanar be appointed by king Eomer into a new position somewhere else – and he probably should take his family and (most of) his soldiers with him – now some of them could be left into the Mead Hall if some writers would like to keep them there and we could then come to terms whether they were ordered to stay (as enforcements to lord Eodwine’s men) or were willing (and given leave) to stay, or whatever…

Also, if we wish to have some added interesting characters, we might leave one or both of lord Athanar’s sons there – they were really reckless guys when they were young the last time we wrote about them. It might be interesting to see what kind of men they would turn out when growing little older.

Lord Eodwine should, I think, be the lord and eorl but he’s clearly getting older – which I then think would make Thornden ever more important character in the Mead Hall (he was alredy appointed a seneschal by lord Athanar), if Folwren is ready to take that.

I think myself and Lommy could keep on writing Modtryth, Stigend and Cnebba – as they are a long time household family and basically have nowhere else to go.

If we let lord Athanar go, I might fancy taking another character depending on what kind of characters are needed (maybe one of lord Athanar's sons - or then something completely different?).


Plotwise I think the local lords could be a wealthy supply of problems, like fex. they had acted "decentlyish" as long as Athanar was there (as they had learned for good that he can play it tough as an eorl) but with him gone - and them not knowing Eodwine - they'd form a conspiracy or even rebel openly - whatever we wished.

Or we could catch on one of those many odd plotlines introduced we have mostly forgotten already (we need to check them)... or...


What do you think?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Does not sound bad to me. I would be certainly too for at least a bit longer time jump, five years is, I think, a nice middle ground if some people don't want to jump too much, but others would prefer a longer jump. I could even do with longer. But depends what is the thing everyone would like to do with their characters.

For myself, the hot irons I have there, i.e. existing characters I could carry on, are all Athanar's soldiers, there is Hilderinc and then the NPC guys, who are sort of fleshed out and I could pick some of them up (such as the young Áforglaed, who could now be a bit more grown-up), they could be left behind on the account of being responsible and useful to Eodwine. Hilderinc was the sort of second-in-command after Athanar's marshal Coenred, so he could be a reasonable choice to be "gifted" to Eodwine. But of course another reasonable thing would be for me to start with somebody completely new. A nice middle ground I've been thinking about could also be e.g. letting Hilderinc stay and, for instance, taking some random peasant from the local area as wife, or somesuch, and then I could have her as a second character. But that's just one possibility, personally I'd maybe prefer even something more original (also the "original" Hilderinc I designed would take a bit longer in settling down), but let's see.

But yes. The idea of e.g. moving Athanar elsewhere and some people remaining behind etc. sounds reasonable. Did you mean, Nogrod, that our potential new storyline would start e.g. just after Athanar has left? As in, the "meanwhile" would be that for the last five (or however many) years, Athanar and Eodwine had been sort of co-ruling the area, with Athanar making sure things work, and after certain period of time, King Eomer saw that things seem to be working fine, and was like "okay, now we can get rid of this unnecessary two-lords rule and seeing that Eodwine can probably take care of things from now on, let's move Athanar somewhere else?" So we might start just after everyone has left? Or would we have it so that the "moving out" happened already several years ago, and the household is just running, and then something problematic might start happening?

In any case, I'm all for some local trouble stirring there. Like G55 said earlier, you can only spend so much time describing how people are eating their breakfast. Although I am not as bloodthirsty, I don't think we need a full-scale bloody rebellion or all-killing plague, but something dramatic, and rather closer to the too dramatic side than to the peaceful side, would not be bad.

[Nogrod]

How the situation has changed and when will be a big decision, and one we need to make together.

Lmp may correct me, but I think the two lords / eorls were very different as personalities and there probably was not anything you'd call love and affection between them. But they didn't hate or despise each other either: they respected each other as senior commanders and capable leaders, and realised well enough that they needed to co-operate for the good of the Mead Hall which clearly was the top priority for both of them. It was more that their disciples and those close to them were hot-headed, easily insulted or over-proud as to try and fight things out...

So the first question is, did they finally reach a peace among the soldiers and other folk belonging to both "households" or has lord Athanar been removed because there was no solution to the tensions? The decision would affect the situation of former Athanar's men / household members quite remarkedly if our writers decided to leave them in the Mead Hall (like Legate's Hilderinc, or Athanar's sons if myself & Lommy decide to leave them).

Another question sure is the one posed by Legate: whether the changes have taken place already some time ago (and things have kind of settled) or do we start writing just when the change happens (Athanar & co. leaves) and see how it goes from there?


I might actually suggest we'd start from a somewhat settled situation to help the new writers blend in - if there are too strong tensions that are based on the previous storyline for the older writers to deal (and have fun) with, it might be harder for the new people to fit in without quite a deep understanding of the previous events.

For the same reason I might propose a somewhat peaceful or honoured exit for Athanar as we probably would do well not leaving too strong tensions there. On top of the above-stated reason of it being possibly frustrating for the new writers if the old ones only dwell in plotlines that stem from the earlier phases of the Mead Hall (which easily happens if we leave some open wounds there), there is also the very real possibility those rifts overtake the writing once again.

I mean one of the problems with the previous "installment" of the Mead Hall was that we seemed to be unable to cut the rivalries down to concentrate on other possible plots.

That doesn't mean there wouldn't, shouldn't or couldn't be any old tensions coming forwards in the new Mead Hall. On the contrary! But I do think we should not make them the main driver of the new storyline - and that would regard us playing them down some considerable amount from where we left the story.


~*~

A few suggestions to ponder then for everyone from where the story stopped...

Lord Eodwine became a father and was happy to father his child while lord Athanar ran the Mead Hall. Or well, maybe Saeryn was actually appointed in some official role as the lady of the Hall (running the everyday life of the Mead Hall with the aid of Eodwine still basically on a "sick leave" recovering to his full strength) while Athanar was the eorl responsible for the official running of the Mead Hall (as the king's court) and commanding the men at arms?

That way we could get things going for a couple of years and see the enmities toning down - maybe lord Athanar was even named the Godfather of the child (alongside Thornden?) as a kind of nice ploy arrived to by Eodwine and Athanar to help ease the tensions between the two groups of people?

One idea could be that there might have been fex. a really hard winter, let's say the second after where we left the story, and some characters, also dear ones, might have even died that winter? I mean what would bring people together better than a common tragedy and common fight for survival?

In general that kind of disaster could serve as a general way of getting rid of characters no one is going to write any more.

Then, when things would look pretty good and peaceful - and lord Eodwine would be back to his full strength after the illness etc. (he could have been suffering with the bad winter also as he wasn't exactly on his prime yet as it befell on them - and that could postpone his full recovery with a year or two?) - king Eomer would have a need for a capable leader somewhere else and calls Athanar to take that position offering the eorlship of Mid Emnet back to Eodwine.

With a disasterous winter behind them it would also be logical for Athanar to be told to leave some of his men to serve under Eodwine... So fex. Hilderinc (and possible others like him) would not be there exactly on his/their own willing but the relations between him (them) and Eodwine's men would be pretty good?

Let's then add a year or two for things to settle down... and we have a five to six year jump in our hands - and new adventures to meet.


What say you?

[Firefoot]

I guess I don't really understand the push for a large time jump. I've been thinking about it quite a lot the last couple days and I feel like I could do three years. My biggest problem is with Scyld's development (and if I'm honest, the way his relationship was progressing with Rowenna) - that's something that's not going to remain stagnant for an incredibly lengthy amount of time, but I also can't write that development independently since it depends on another character's writer. To get to three years, I'm probably going to write in that he left for a while (and I have an idea to work that in), but five years is a long time. In some ways at least I think Scyld is on his way to being a very different person but I can't just gloss over that and skip to the end without it feeling totally contrived. lmp, thoughts from Rowenna's side? Though maybe I should ask first whether you are also interested in continuing writing Rowenna's character?

I like the general plot points Nogrod outlined, though I think it could easily be compressed to a shorter time frame (if anyone else is with me... if everyone else really wants to jump five years I guess I'm outnumbered).

My thought is, if we're starting up new characters and some new general plotlines anyway, it shouldn't matter to new writers how far along we move the timeline. And for those of you arguing for a longer jump with existing characters, I would be interested in knowing why you want to move them so far forward - do you feel they were a bit stagnant where they were? Then I'd suggest introducing some event in their life that changes or pushes them in new directions - and it doesn't necessarily have to be a long time from now. Though I do understand the desire of those with children characters to grow them up a bit.

I won't belabor my point, but you can consider my vote as

++3 year shift

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also, if we wish to have some added interesting characters, we might leave one or both of lord Athanar’s sons there – they were really reckless guys when they were young the last time we wrote about them. It might be interesting to see what kind of men they would turn out when growing little older.

Lord Eodwine should, I think, be the lord and eorl but he’s clearly getting older – which I then think would make Thornden ever more important character in the Mead Hall (he was alredy appointed a seneschal by lord Athanar), if Folwren is ready to take that.

That combination would be interesting to develop, since all of a sudden W&W (or at least the elder of the two) would lose his status as the "son and heir" of the eorl, seeing as Athanar is no longer eorl - and maybe they would actually start behaving like actual men...eventually?

And Athanar leaving would create the same situation as Athanar coming, but in reverse, and potentially stir old grudges, but this time I think the grudges would be mild and brief, because 1) Athanar leaves in honour at the request of King Eomer to see to another challenging task, he's not just dismissed, 2) Athanar's men saw Eodwine in action and know he's a worthy man, 3) the two households have had time to begin respecting each other and cooperating, and they are above open quarrels for the most part, and 4) bringing up the old tensions is like chewing cud - it's boring to rehash the same story.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Plotwise I think the local lords could be a wealthy supply of problems, like fex. they had acted "decentlyish" as long as Athanar was there (as they had learned for good that he can play it tough as an eorl) but with him gone - and them not knowing Eodwine - they'd form a conspiracy or even rebel openly - whatever we wished.

I vote for open rebellion. Maybe even a justified rebellion - overall wrong, but not without cause. Maybe some of the lords would feel rightfully wronged by the eorl(s) or by their men, or there is some misunderstanding that ends in tragedy. That way they aren't just jerks either, and they may have the support of some of their people (otherwise the rebellion wouldn't be sustained unless they hired brigands or something). Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

In any case, I'm all for some local trouble stirring there. Like G55 said earlier, you can only spend so much time describing how people are eating their breakfast. Although I am not as bloodthirsty, I don't think we need a full-scale bloody rebellion or all-killing plague, but something dramatic, and rather closer to the too dramatic side than to the peaceful side, would not be bad.

An all-killing plague! That's perfect!!! <3 No, seriously - it's plausible within the setting, it puts pressure on individuals and on the entire Meadhall alike, and it creates tension when developing the story. A plague a plague a plague! Delicious!

Ok, sorry, I suppose I am more bloodthirsty than most of you here, so I won't push on with it, but I do think that an event like that could be kept in mind to be used in the future.

Another alternative drama could be the disappearance of some man/men. Just plain old disappearance. No one knows what happened or where they went. We may or may not know what happened or where they went. And that could lead to search parties and unwanted discoveries of... I dunno. Things.

I've reread the last 3-4 pages of the thread, and there are a few notable subplots/details that I think deserve attention. Firstly, there is stuff brewing between Ginna and Harreld. Are they now happily married? What did her father say? Then there is some very different stuff brewing between Rowenna and Scyld. That probably needs resolution, or at least continuation (re: Firefoot: to avoid the too-rapid transformation, Scyld could have been sent away or gone away to do some task for a significant amount of time. Say, a group of Scarburg men was dispatched to aid the reconstruction of a village after the whole thing birned down in a harsh fire during a very dry summer, and due to complications the project lengthened. The whole thing could be described briefly in passing, but Scyld's character development would sort of be put on pause, or perhaps he could reflect on it in a flashback). Then there is the dead body, which Rowenna and Scyld (well mostly Rowenna) decided to investigate. I can't see how this plot line can be suddenly reopened again after several years. Either we drop it or we flashback-narrate it. Finally, Athanar was bothered about Saeryn's parade of her condition and her martyr-like show/attitude, and he considered ordering her to stop working so much but was loathe to give her commands in her own house. Now that Eodwine is here, though, Athanar could do the thing discreetly with his help, and Ledwyn's coming would have been an argument in his favour, so my guess is that the three of them would convince Saeryn to lay down her duties for a while. She would also probably get a few months of "maternity leave". I don't think she would stay away from her position as the Lady of the hall for very long, but it would be a few months at least. How would people react to her coming back? How would she feel if in her absence as the person in control things started going differently somehow?

So there. I agree with Firefoor - I think that we don't need a too long jump to get out of stagnation. But then again, some characters are hotter coals than others - I can see how the Harreld, Ginna, Rowenna, Saeryn, Scyld, and the children would develop much faster than, say, Hilderinc or Eodwine, who are in a way already established and slow to change, and therefore would benefit from a shorter jump, while on the contrary someone like Hilderinc would benefit from a longer jump... Oh the indecisiveness...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I guess I don't really understand the push for a large time jump. I've been thinking about it quite a lot the last couple days and I feel like I could do three years. My biggest problem is with Scyld's development (and if I'm honest, the way his relationship was progressing with Rowenna) - that's something that's not going to remain stagnant for an incredibly lengthy amount of time, but I also can't write that development independently since it depends on another character's writer. To get to three years, I'm probably going to write in that he left for a while (and I have an idea to work that in), but five years is a long time. In some ways at least I think Scyld is on his way to being a very different person but I can't just gloss over that and skip to the end without it feeling totally contrived.

I think it's what G55 said, the "new" characters who had just acquired their personality, or characters who are already fairly established and are not currently growing, would benefit from longer time jump simply because it gives the chance to go fresher with them. It's like Bilbo Baggins has been introduced in the first chapter, then it's nice skipping over the trek through the Shire, Bree and most of the wilderness until we reach the trolls, because there isn't really much room for development. Obviously, the problem being that not everyone is on the same boat and just when we last left off, there were a few plots going on at the moment, involving basically three or four characters, one of which being Scyld, so it's logical from your perspective, it would even be logical to continue just at the very day we left off. And exactly, the same with others who are not present - the main problem I see with any longer time jumps is that there might be players who would like to continue writing their characters as they are, because there is material for growth here and now (although again, often upon thinking about it, a time-jump could serve better).

As a side note to the time jump, although I would not personally submit "creative license" to "realism", it would be more realistic if more shifting of lords didn't occur too quickly after each other (already we had the unusual case of Athanar being appointed to replace Eodwine, and then suddenly in a matter of weeks upon Eodwine's unexpected recovery the shift occuring again).

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And Athanar leaving would create the same situation as Athanar coming, but in reverse, and potentially stir old grudges, but this time I think the grudges would be mild and brief, because 1) Athanar leaves in honour at the request of King Eomer to see to another challenging task, he's not just dismissed, 2) Athanar's men saw Eodwine in action and know he's a worthy man, 3) the two households have had time to begin respecting each other and cooperating, and they are above open quarrels for the most part, and 4) bringing up the old tensions is like chewing cud - it's boring to rehash the same story.

Yep, I think we should stay away from the "old lord/new lord/old people/new people" grudges and not touch them even with a ten-foot pole, only occassionally if it really sounded like it might be fun and there's a good reason for it. Heck, I even thought we technically got over it already in the game itself - the stuff was essentially getting settled, as far as I am concerned. And after several years of living together, I think we could more or less gloss over it.

Originally Posted by G55

I vote for open rebellion. Maybe even a justified rebellion - overall wrong, but not without cause. Maybe some of the lords would feel rightfully wronged by the eorl(s) or by their men, or there is some misunderstanding that ends in tragedy. That way they aren't just jerks either, and they may have the support of some of their people (otherwise the rebellion wouldn't be sustained unless they hired brigands or something). Thoughts?

Not an uninteresting idea, the question would exactly be how and why. Currently I don't have any ideas, but I'll think about it. Side note - I would not like, however, this to turn into a "war RPG" - I haven't been in Scarburg that long, but it always seemed to me rather on the peaceful side, and certainly I'd prefer it to be more like drama than to turn it into "Eodwine slashed the first soldier, then the second, then he killed four Orcs. Next post: Sixteen new orcs arrived and attacked him."

Originally Posted by G55

Another alternative drama could be the disappearance of some man/men. Just plain old disappearance. No one knows what happened or where they went. We may or may not know what happened or where they went. And that could lead to search parties and unwanted discoveries of... I dunno. Things.

Same as above. Sounds good, but whereas I like the "not knowing and planning on-the-go" part, I am very, very, very well aware of the pitfalls of that, because that easily turns to be "um... yeah... we've been writing for fifteen pages, searched the whole Rohan, and still have no idea what happened in the first place". I'd be for it, but we probably should have at least some idea, not necessarily even who or what did "it", but at least what we're trying to accomplish by that.

Originally Posted by G55

I've reread the last 3-4 pages of the thread, and there are a few notable subplots/details that I think deserve attention. Firstly, there is stuff brewing between Ginna and Harreld. Are they now happily married? What did her father say?

I think this is most of all the issue of their respective players. I think that's one thing we should figure out anyway (regardless of how far we timejump, even if we didn't timejump at all), try to check with players of previous characters, if they are still interested, if they have any vision for them, if we should rather quietly move them out of sight for the time being (exactly - "Ginna and Harreld settled for a time on a small farm nearby...") if the player isn't planning on returning now, just in case we don't do something they wouldn't consent to in case they wanted to come back later ("Ginna and Harreld both died in the terrible plague last winter - oops").

Originally Posted by G55

Then there is the dead body, which Rowenna and Scyld (well mostly Rowenna) decided to investigate. I can't see how this plot line can be suddenly reopened again after several years. Either we drop it or we flashback-narrate it.

Unless it somehow was never solved, swept under the rug, whatever, and it might serve as starting point for some later cases (e.g. the sudden disappearances [TM] - it will be revealed that it was the work of evil Sméagol, who has been lurking around and kidnapping poor villagers ever since, until he finally became too bold for his own good, kidnapped a few of people straight from the Mead Hall at once, and that started our new pursuit!). To be honest, I have no idea what it was supposed to be to begin with - Firefoot? Was there a specific idea behind that?

Anyway, generally speaking, to me, it really doesn't matter how long time jump we make. But I don't have anything against making it longer rather than shorter. Three years is decent already, in any case. But could be much more or even less.

Of course - random thought at the end - we could jump just a little ahead (a few years) and into the "Fell Winter" idea of Nogrod's with people dying left and right (happy, Ms. Plaguebearer?), and do something there. I think the main point of time-jump is though that there should be some time between Eodwine arriving and Athanar leaving, and between Athanar leaving and our start (at least some time so that the new routine has been established).

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by G55

That combination would be interesting to develop, since all of a sudden W&W (or at least the elder of the two) would lose his status as the "son and heir" of the eorl, seeing as Athanar is no longer eorl - and maybe they would actually start behaving like actual men...eventually?

And Athanar leaving would create the same situation as Athanar coming, but in reverse, and potentially stir old grudges, but this time I think the grudges would be mild and brief, because 1) Athanar leaves in honour at the request of King Eomer to see to another challenging task, he's not just dismissed, 2) Athanar's men saw Eodwine in action and know he's a worthy man, 3) the two households have had time to begin respecting each other and cooperating, and they are above open quarrels for the most part, and 4) bringing up the old tensions is like chewing cud - it's boring to rehash the same story.

Wulfric and Wilheard behaving like actual men? Wow you're feeling optimistic today...

I think a three-year time jump would be a nice compromise for those who might want to see long term character development taking place in their characters and to those who have more pressing matters to solve. I don't see any problem with writing a couple of interludes, eg. with Scyld and Rowenna if there's something that needs to be addressed.

As for what happened during the time jump, feel free to use Wulfric and Wilheard as culprits. Maybe they did something stupid that forced Athanar to take King Éomer's invitation and resign himself and (most of) his household from Scarburg. You know, plotting with the local separationist () lordlings or assaulting kitchen staff who are under Athanar or Eodwine's protection. You name it, they probably did it. And then if we wanted extra trouble, they could reappear to stir up a subplot in the new timeline.

Or maybe they stayed and matured a little, possibly going away on a campaign to Harad or the East with an éored for a year or two, and maybe once they came back Athanar and Eodwine named one of them in an important position in the household upon Athanar's departure? And then that one could have little cockfights with Thornden in the new timeline?

Whatever sounds the best. I mean, writing for those two idiots was great fun but I'm afraid it won't be as fun if they go full chaotic evil or if they grow up, but I'm okay with that. I mean, I haven't written them for years. I won't regret if I let them go now.

(Ackk now I'm thinking, maybe they indeed went on a campaign and Wulfric - the older and bolder one - actually died, and Wilheard returned to Scarburg with his head down, grieved and alone, and his unpredictability hidden but even more dangerous... that could make an interesting plotline for certain.)

[Mithalwen]

Ok I don't really want to get involved in the discussion much since I feel it is for the writers of existing characters to do what is right for them and for the newcomers/ returnees to fit in. However I just thought I would mention, and I hope that I am correct since I don't have access to many texts atm, but if the Mead hall was previously in late FA15 wasn't it the next year that Elessar went to dwell a while by lake Evendim.

I know that it doesn't effect Rohan directly but there must have been an increase of traffic and not necessarily exclusively consisting of denizens of Gondor. I am sure many would have taken to have a relatively safe adventure. Anyway I will wait and see what is decided.

[Nogrod]

I think I'm being a somewhat realist in thinking that whatever we'll do with the new installment / continuation of the Mead Hall it will take several weeks or month(s) before we are up and writing it again. Therefore I think it very plausible all different considerations we'd need to think can be thought of & solved both individually and via a lot of PM'ing between the owners' of the characters in need of dealing with. I don't think there is any hurry. At least there shouldn't be.

It is very true different writers & characters are in different situations. Some might easily make a ten year jump and it would be only more interesting that way. For some others it would be much harder - or more of a jump into relative darkness where one would need to just decide or negotiate a bunch of things before we continue.

But considering what I said above about us having all the time we need, we could arrange for some "inrterludes", as someone called them, and give everyone a chance to write their character's POV posts about the years we jumped over (possibly collaborated posts with some other writers if there would be some important relationship-issues to solve) before we actually jump forward and start / continue writing the actual story.


~*~

Why I favoured a longer jump was that it would make it easier for the new writers to fit in as the shadows of the past would be lighter.

And for some reasons, well actually for quite many, I still favour a longer jump. For example I think it would do good to us former writers as well to take some distance.

It should naturally be a shared decision - and so I'm going to be happy with whatever that decision is, especially as I'm looking forwards to giving the reins back to lmp once again.


~*~

Just as a general point of agreement... I too think the Mead Hall is not a war game (I still find it odd collaborative storytelling is called 'game' in Barrow Downs) and should stay like that. But it should be drama for sure.

So a hard winter, a plague... we should have something along those lines to get rid of the enmities and to just throw away the characters whom no one is going to write (or adopt) for.

In general terms, it should not be too hard to come up with a plot concerning the local lords causing problems to the Mead Hall. They wouldn't be a unified gang any more (which I think was one of the major outcomes of the Mead Hall's confrontation with them as we wrote it), but it should provide us with a lots of nice plotting.

With some of the other ideas I'd tend to agree with Legate that we should have a point for them first. Just writing anomalies and seeing if they catch up or not isn't, imo, the most fruitful approach to writing in general.

Also I think we should get rid of Athanar even if I kind of really started to like writing him. And probably his household as well. But we could leave some soldiers, especially those who have writers, just with the pretext of not letting the Mead Hall fall too weak (by King Eomer's orders I presume). And what Lommy said about the brothers here could be just real messy (in a positive way)...

Originally Posted by Lommy

Or maybe they stayed and matured a little, possibly going away on a campaign to Harad or the East with an éored for a year or two, and maybe once they came back Athanar and Eodwine named one of them in an important position in the household upon Athanar's departure? And then that one could have little cockfights with Thornden in the new timeline?
...
(Ackk now I'm thinking, maybe they indeed went on a campaign and Wulfric - the older and bolder one - actually died, and Wilheard returned to Scarburg with his head down, grieved and alone, and his unpredictability hidden but even more dangerous... that could make an interesting plotline for certain.)

I mean we could come up with a nice combination of these ideas...


~*~

What else?

Mith's finding could be fruitful. And it is a nice spotting.

But it is at the same time a bit "earlyish" for our plans of jumping a little more than just a year. And on the other hand, there just being more people wandering around in Tolkien's universe by the time X might not be that important because we can always come up with reasons to introduce wanderers to our Hall if we wish to (we've come up with reasons to bring dwarves, hobbits, elfs, rogues etc. to the Mead Hall thus far with no problems) - or if we wish more of them wandering around, we can come up with a reason for that as well.

Or could it be the kind of a nice background story we'd tell happened during our jump - that besides the terrible killer-winter / plague, there were a year or two of lots of people coming to and fro - and maybe some of our newcomers to the story would be ones who had visited the Mead Hall by that time and had come back for some personal purpose? Wouldn't that actually be a nice place to start writing a new character?


Okay. Stopping my thinking aloud for the time being...

[Firefoot]

I certainly hope it doesn't take months to start writing again! I think we have momentum now and the longer it takes to actually start writing, the more momentum we lose. And personally, I'm really eager to start actually writing again. I don't think we necessarily need to have all the details worked out - we can leave some room for making it up as we get there.

In the interest of expediting things, I've attempted to make a character list of all the characters currently at the hall, no longer how long ago they were last written about. I've grouped them by characters whose writers have expressed interest in continuing the story, characters whose writers we haven't heard from, and NPCs, along with a brief description to let those who are new or who have forgotten sort of who they are (character bios linked on the first page of the discussion thread). From this we can create a shorter list of characters who will still be around at the time when we pick up.

Characters with Active Writers
Athanar son of Herewald - new Eorl of Meadhall (Nogrod)
Stigend – Carpenter (Nogrod)
Modtryth – Stigend’s wife (Lommy)
Cnebba – Stigend/Modtryth’s son (Nogrod/Lommy)
Wulfric & Wilheard - sons of the new Eorl (Lommy)
Rowenna – Serving woman (lmp)
Eodwine – Former Eorl (lmp)
Master Falco Boffin – Hobbit (lmp)
Harreld Smith – Smith (lmp)
Garreth Smith; - Smith (lmp)
Laerdil – Elf (lmp)
Léofric (Leof) – Ostler (Firefoot)
Scyld – Formerly of the household where the new Meadhall was built; makes himself useful where possible (Firefoot)
Ledwyn and her son, Theolain – Recent arrivals to hall (G55)
Hilderinc – Athanar’s soldier (Legate)

Characters with Inactive Writers
Coenred (Coen) - Athanar's right hand man/in charge of his men (Durelin)
Tyrdda – Serving woman, originally from Scarburg area (Durelin)
Raedwald – Soldier, did not come with Athanar (Eonwe)
Thornden – Eodwine’s 2nd in command (Folwren)
Javan – Thornden’s younger brother, assists in stables (Folwren)
Saeryn – Eodwine’s wife, lady of the hall (Folwren)
Quin of Edoras – One of Athanar’s younger soldiers (Folwren)
Náin son of Narin son of Nori – Dwarf (Formendacil)
Crabannan – “Trouble-maker”/Jack of all trades (Gwathagor)
Wilcred – Seems to have come to Scarburg with Eodwine (Gwathagor/NPC?)
Kara – Serving woman (Kath)
Frodides – cook (Kath)
Ginna – serving woman (Lhuna)
Randvér – Ginna’s father, not necessarily at hall (Lhuna)
Lilige Wynflæd's maid (loslote)
Wynflæd - wife of Athanar, the new Eorl (Mnemosyne)
Balvir – soldier (Nerindel)
Iomhair – young woman (Nerindel)
Aedel – young woman (Nerindel)
Matrim Astalder - soldier, caretaker of Aethel (Nerindel)
Ædre - daughter of the new Eorl

NPC's
Baldwic – soldier (NPC)
Fearghall – soldier (NPC)
Áforglaed – soldier (NPC)
Scyrr – soldier, troublemaker (NPC)
Aldric – soldier, womanizer (NPC)
Garstan – Stone worker (NPC, originally Celuien)
Garmund – Garstan’s son (NPC)
Leodern – Garstan’s daughter (NPC)

For a start, I'd recommend writing all of Nerindel's characters out - she only wrote about 5 posts for all her characters in the thread. Eonwe's character Raedwald can probably go as well; he hasn't been active in a long time. I'd be hesitant to kill off (distinctive from write out) any of Folwren or Durelin's characters since they were active "recently" in the hall thread. Wilcred has not been written about since the very beginning of the Meadhall thread - he can probably go. Not sure about Crabannan - Gwathagor sometimes pops up. Kara, Frodides, and Ginna are long-time fixtures of the hall - not sure how that affects what we do with them (also sort of depends on Ginna's romantic sub-plot...). Aedre, Wynflaed, and Lilige can all go with Athanar. And Nain can just be out and about - as a Dwarf, he's obviously not from Rohan and need not be present at the hall. Thoughts?

Obviously anyone present can make their own decisions about their characters.

Thoughts on the NPC's from the writers who have had more to do with them?

As far as the intervening timeline, I think a hard winter followed at some point by Athanar and co leaving is a good outline; should be enough of a basis for people to start thinking/writing about their characters in the interim. And as far as the conspiracy/rebellion goes, what sort of details do we need to hash out before starting to write? I personally don't feel over-concerned about this as I feel like I can create enough personal drama for my characters regardless of the overarching plot-line, but understand why others who are more involved might feel differently.

I just don't want this to stagnate with ideas and lose new writers while we sit around hashing out the details. Hope this helps a bit.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good job, Firefoot. Just a short comment from me now - I think basically what's been said here all makes sense to me. As for the starting, we sure are not in any rush, although I can also understand the eagerness to start. In any case, I think it's good to do something. I think nothing prevents us to plan more details (and Firefoot has already supplied us with first thing to sort out. Maybe we could try to e.g. contact Lhuna and Kath and Gwath regarding their characters?)

And at the same time, whoever wants can start on working or even write some details about what happened to their characters during some of the transition, like Nog suggested. So exactly if Scyld would seem to have ongoing stuff which can happen before the transition, that can be written, or at least some of it, which isn't dependant on the final shape of the transition. But if we roughly agree e.g. that there was normal routine for a year, also maybe some bigger random happenings around the King-spedition that Mith mentioned, then some evil winter, and eventually Athanar leaving on Éomer's call, people already have enough basic background info for writing something. Or at least trying to make it clear which direction their character's development would take during the time, which is something all of us would have to think of at any rate.

Or I don't know, if somebody would be really hyperactive to write, of course nothing would prevent in the meantime to continue in the "present" just where we left off on the thread if they'd have stuff to do; the main point however being anyway that we want to sort of bring people together on this and start a bit further "properly", as so far I think the main issue for most is to get to a spot where something is happening which can involve everyone and we have something to start from.

[Snowdog]

Right. Lots of details here. You all get the scene and setting placed and I'll bring in my one Rohirrim character I have into the Mead Hall and will work with whatever you put out there.

[Nogrod]

Thanks Firefoot for the update on the characters! It is going to be really helpful!

And your concern with the momentum is a quite an important thing to pay heed to.

Originally Posted by Snowdog

Right. Lots of details here. You all get the scene and setting placed and I'll bring in my one Rohirrim character I have into the Mead Hall and will work with whatever you put out there.

That's the spirit!

And like Legate said, nothing prevents people from starting to build posts already - or posting them - if they have pressing stuff for their characters they'd love to move forwards like now and not a bit later.


I'm sorry Firefoot for using the 's' after the word 'month' - I wasn't really thinking it would take monthS to get this rolling (I was kind of joking on it), but it will most probably take a few weeks - and maybe a month - to really get everyone into the same map - and to decide what kind of map it actually is where we start / continue from...


~*~

There are a few things to do to help things get rolling.

We sould find out which of the old writers would be willing to come back. Of those who have not yet shown their presence I think the most important one would be Folwren as she has the ownership of some really major characters.

Should I sent her a PM / an Fb note - or would fex. lmp be willing to contact her? (She's taking a trip to Europe on June and we Finns are going to meet her around the Midsummers' eve-time, but that would be pretty late to start discussing this; it also means she's probably not able to post a lot in June anyway but that should not be a problem if she wishes to continue writing her characters, they could just be a little more inactive for some time)


All other "old writers" should also declare which of their characters they'd like to continue writing (some of us seem to have quite a bunch of characters) or if they'd like to write all of them, or even introduce more - or if they'd like to keep the character around but would be willing to turn it into a NPC or are just ready to kill the character? You should use Firefoot's list for that.

Also we'd need to have a rough outline of things going on during our jump so that people could start really thinking about their characters. (I'll speculate about it shortly just a few rows downwards.)


And naturally the new writers should think about their characters and maybe express their intents about them... I mean having seven "damsels in distress" coming into the Mead Hall and no other kind of new characters would be a bad idea. Or well, who knows?

And we'd need to make a short synopsis / general updated outline of the Mead Hall for the new writers to read as it is probably too much requiring them to read some 100 pages from the early first Mead Hall onwards...


~*~

A general timeline should also be decided - at least the most central things that would affect everyone one way or another.

How about a following scenario?

NB. The years given can be concentrated if the majority thinks 5 years would be too much...


1# year

The Mead Hall was more or less built within a year after we left writing the story (I think it was not yet ready when we ceased writing and there were some major things to do & to change according to Athanar's plans). Saeryn will give birth.

The things settled down a bit even if there were some occasional rifts and a few people were given minor penalties by lord Athanar's court because of misbehaviour.

The local lords were licking their wounds and having their own internal power-struggles so they were not able or willing to cause any trouble.


2# year

There could then have been a period of a lot of travelers the next year because of king Aragorn's trip, and the local lords would have been nice and relaxed as there were a lot of folk around & revenue to be made etc. A year of prosperity and relationships getting better within the Mead Hall.


3# year

The year of problems in the east. With king Eomer's muster also the Mead Hall would have been forced to give away a host of soldiers - both lord Eodwine's and lord Athanar's men (more of the latter as Athanar rode in with a larger host of active-duty soldiers).

It might even be lord Athanar would have been summoned by king Eomer to lead a force of rohirrim from those parts of Rohan (as king Eomer knew that Eodwine was getting better but not well enough to lead cavalry into a battle - but he trusted Eodwine would nevertheless be in good condition enough to run the hall). At least Athanar's sons would be summoned...

Local lords are called for as well (under the command of Athanar?) and so they are not doing any plotting or things like that this year.


4# year

The killer-winter -year (I'd prefer a harsh winter to a plague, but if most people think plague is better I'm fine with it).

Understaffed the Mead Hall suffers greatly because of the winter. Other local lords / their farmsteads suffer as well. Everyone suffers as death walks around randomly here and there.

Here we get rid of characters no one will be writing any more.



5# year

The end of the fell winter... This might also be the place we start our writing!

A nice place for the new characters to join the Mead Hall - refugees, wanderers, travelers... caught up by the harsh winter and trying to find shelter / been kicked out of former shelters, coming back from the war in the east etc.

Lord Athanar could be dead - or maybe promoted to a Field Marshal, or given a new eorlship... whatever. But we'd be rid of him from the story. Those left behind of Athanar's men could be ordered by king Eomer to stay under the command of Eodwine... and maybe one or two of his sons would join the Mead Hall after the battles...


How about something along these lines?

[Firefoot]

I'm sorry Firefoot for using the 's' after the word 'month' - I wasn't really thinking it would take monthS to get this rolling (I was kind of joking on it), but it will most probably take a few weeks - and maybe a month - to really get everyone into the same map - and to decide what kind of map it actually is where we start / continue from...

I probably overreacted... but it was certainly galvanizing. I'll be on vacation not this week but next week anyway, and doing a lot of backpacking/camping so I guess I'm not in a huge rush - maybe set a goal of definitely be writing by June?

I'm a lot less concerned with the exact sequence of events in the interim than the amount of time - Leof will keep doing his thing with the horses (he'd be pretty useless in a battle) - and actually, Scyld's not really a fighter either even if he didn't have his own thing going on so that all looks great to me

I would facebook Folwren - she hasn't logged into the Downs since we got it back and probably doesn't know we're starting again, if she's at all interested. lmp has also gone conspicuously absent, though I'm wondering if he's on vacation based on his facebook page as well...

[Galadriel55]

I apologize for the brevity, but I'm posting from a phone and it's a pain in the patience. I think the killer winter is great, and the timeline is quite fine as well. Just a question - are we going to briefly summarize these years in one post, or maybe pick a moment for each year and pause to make a few posts so that characters can "update" themselves? I would be for the latter case - it wouldn't slow us down too much, if we avoid too much interaction and make the posts more self-reflective than seeking subplots, but it would give the chance to show occasional character development in addition to overall changes. Maybe just a glimpse of a couple main characters per year.

I suppose on the other hand, if you want your character to start being 5 years older already, that's not exactly a perfect plan. But even so, it would probably be nice to fex hear Athanar's goodbye speech, or Stigend's/Garstan's thoughts at having completed the Mead Hall.

So what do you think?

[Nogrod]

I kind of like the idea of some intermediary posts being built up before we go forwards.

I think it would fall on me and/or lmp to come up with the kind of "official jump post" shortly outlining what has happened in a general level - but we could of course break that up into four to five very short descriptions to which others could add something for their own characters if they felt a need for it before we post the "next year" etc.

Let's think about that as well.

I see no reason why we wouldn't be writing this in June, but having this going full steam already in May I'm more sceptical about.

[Thinlómien]

I sent Eönwë a message since he just posted on the new ww admin thread.

Nogrod's outline looks good to me, but I wouldn't mind compromising for a shorter time jump if that's what the majority wants. Personally, I quite like 5 years.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I think I want to keep writing Wilheard, and poor Wulfric can be dead. It should make things interesting.

Modtryth then... to be frank, I don't think there's that much in her that I'd find interesting to explore, and I feel like she's very archetypal female character written by Ms Lommy back in 2000-whatever, and creating some huge drama for her just to make it more interesting would feel a little fabricated. So I'm thinking I could keep her as secondary character, writing for her when it's relevant for other characters' plots and offering her to be used as an NPC whenever people need one of the household servant women to do this or that. A lot depends on how many active kitchen wench/ maid/ random household servant woman characters are we going to have, because if all the others are going to be NPCs/ carry-along characters again there's little reason for me to write Modtryth super actively either. And I'm not entirely opposed to killing her off for the sake of drama...

As for Cnebba, I look forward to seeing him grown up a little. I think me and Nogrod's arrangement of sharing the character worked really well in the past, and I think we can continue that. OR if Nogrod - who has been writing Cnebba more recently - has a vision what to do with the character, I'm also content in taking the back seat and grabbing the pop corn and seeing what happens to the poor little boy.

So, in short, will my characters be around?

Wilheard - yes (now with added trauma; and probably also completed soldier training - he was only 17 and now he's going to be 20 or 22)
Wulfric - nope, RIP
Modtryth - yes, as a secondary character (?????)
Cnebba - yes, whatever the actual writing arrangement between me and Nog

I also think people should revise/update/rewrite the character bios for the old characters to make it easier - especially for the new players - to orientate (plus in some cases *coughthinlómiencough* correct some lousy grammar - I didn't think my English used to be any worse than it is now but apparently I was wrong... )

[Nogrod]

I think we old writers should all make the kind of short "what I have in mind" -post Lommy just made.


So for my part I'd say Athanar will be off to fresh adventures.


With Stigend I have quite similar thoughts Lommy has with Modryth. It might be quite a tragedy if Cnebba was orphaned by the terrible winter, but I'm not sure it would be good drama as the closest person to him would be Garstan and his children - and they have no active writer.

So I'd say we (myself and Lommy) should continue co-writing Cnebba and we could bring both Stigend and Modryth into the story via his character, and of course if there is some need to add their voices independently of Cnebba's POV then we'd do it. I mean you never know when you need a staple hand around.

If we seem to be in need of characters to die in the terrible winter, then I'd say we could come up with a mix from Stigend and Modryth & Cnebba + Garstan & Garmund and Leothern. They were close friends both adults and kids and the remaining ones would naturally fall on each other's support if something terrible happened. But without Celuien I'm not sure we'd like to write at least any high drama just on our own...


That said I see myself quite free of any strong obligations (Athanar is off, Stigend will lay back and Cnebba is a co-written character).

So I might want to do something of the following...

My first idea is - has been basically from when I realised the Mead Hall would be back - to start taking care of the local lords (they're more or less my creations after all), especially if we decide they're going to play a role in the plots defining the Mead Hall's future. That would probably include less writing in the thread but more thinking and planning outside it. I might find that task very interesting indeed.

And it might actually end up including more writing in the thread as I have an idea that one of them at least might be a regular visitor soon enough. But I need to go back to those characters some time soon and see in more detail what I could do with them (I have ideas as to what kind of characters they were and how their relations were but I do not remember the details well enough to spell anything out quite yet).

Secondly. If we're going to have several new characters in the Hall I'd rather not add a new one to the mix, but I could think of picking up someone already in the Mead Hall no one writes - like who was this bad tongued old guy I think I wrote about whose task it was to teach Javan as a punishment (a punishment to Javan, not to him )? Or maybe one of Athanar's soldiers left in the Mead Hall (like leaving someone alongside Hilderinc that was actually written by someone)? Talking of which: unless Durelin comes back and says she wants to write Coenred, then Coenred should go with Athanar.

[Galadriel55]

Well, I'm not an old writer by any stretch, but I was planning on killing off one of my characters during the winter. I am still debating whose reaction I would rather write about, but I was leaning towards one of them, and if Cnebba is to be orphaned then my choice is clear. The tyke is gonna go. And when that's gonna happen, Ledwyn will reveal something to someone - no idea who, I'm still thinking about that, it should be a person who wouldn't exactly spread a rumour but whose conscience would tell him to seek advice from other people and let half the Hall know. Or maybe not. Or maybe a random NPC. I wanted to do a different twist about Ledwyn's past, but I forgot how many details she already told Saeryn in the kitchen, so this one would have to do. And it would fit in with her character as well, since she's not exactly Scyld or Rowenna when it comes to those things.

I agree about Coen. It would make sense for Athanar to take his core men with him. And if Durelin comes back again, it would be possible to send Coen back to Scarburg on an errand, if she so chose.

I will update my character bios in the next couple days as Lommy suggested, if/when I get the moment.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, I'm not an old writer by any stretch, but I was planning on killing off one of my characters during the winter. I am still debating whose reaction I would rather write about, but I was leaning towards one of them, and if Cnebba is to be orphaned then my choice is clear. The tyke is gonna go. And when that's gonna happen, Ledwyn will reveal something to someone - no idea who, I'm still thinking about that, it should be a person who wouldn't exactly spread a rumour but whose conscience would tell him to seek advice from other people and let half the Hall know. Or maybe not. Or maybe a random NPC. I wanted to do a different twist about Ledwyn's past, but I forgot how many details she already told Saeryn in the kitchen, so this one would have to do. And it would fit in with her character as well, since she's not exactly Scyld or Rowenna when it comes to those things.

*Hilderinc raises hand* How about this confidant?

I assume with lot of stuff, it would be logical for Ledwyn to confide to a woman, but if it's under good circumstances, it could be anyone, right? I mean, game-wise we could develop any good reasons for how the relationship of these two might've induced that possibility. But in any case, my main reasons for thinking about this were out-of-game ones:

1. Hilderinc is exactly the type you are talking about; also, he has the air of being silent and trustworthy, it's almost his prime, if not almost only visible attribute, which brings me to

2. if I want to keep Hilderinc, I desperately need to kick him off a little bit with something action-inducing. I will definitely use the timejump to make him more invested in the people and the place and make him grow, but things like that would be a nice bonus. But whichever way you like.

In any case, as for my characters, there is essentially the option to keep Hilderinc and take some random new character (preferably very different), or ditch Hilderinc and keep one of the NPC soldiers (most of which I had been writing for more than other people, I daresay) such as Áforglaed and do the same, or e.g. do some hybrid thing such as keeping Hilderinc, keeping Áforglaed as another NPC who stayed, but having him married to some random local woman whom I would take as second character. What I definitely do NOT want to do is ending up with two soldiers, and I would not like to take just two utterly different new characters either (too much discontinuity). Actually the option #3 (Hilderinc, NPC Áforglaed+wife) makes the most sense to me at this point, but I'm still thinking.

[littlemanpoet]

Eodwine (First Eorl of the Meadhall) will be there.

Master Falco Boffin - I don't know. I think he left. Did he come back?

Harreld Smith - probably my favorite, he'll be around

Garreth Smith - I think he joined lately.

Rowenna (Rowenna now written by Feanor of the Peredhil) - may be gone unless there's reason to have her around.

Laerdil (Elf) - won't be around. He's probably over the sea by now.

I'm not very keen on all the political whatnot that we were trying to slog through toward the end of things. My sense is that it got too complicated and weighed the whole thing down.

5 years into the future sounds good to me. Eodwine's wife is an issue. I wonder if Folwren isn't too busy with being a successful teacher these days in RL?

Anyway....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*Hilderinc raises hand* How about this confidant?

I assume with lot of stuff, it would be logical for Ledwyn to confide to a woman, but if it's under good circumstances, it could be anyone, right? I mean, game-wise we could develop any good reasons for how the relationship of these two might've induced that possibility. But in any case, my main reasons for thinking about this were out-of-game ones:

1. Hilderinc is exactly the type you are talking about; also, he has the air of being silent and trustworthy, it's almost his prime, if not almost only visible attribute, which brings me to

2. if I want to keep Hilderinc, I desperately need to kick him off a little bit with something action-inducing. I will definitely use the timejump to make him more invested in the people and the place and make him grow, but things like that would be a nice bonus. But whichever way you like.

That sounds lovely, and both our characters can prosper. If you want, we can PM/skype each other and discuss what's going to happen to them. I can tell you what I'm thinking for the reveal, and you can decide if you want Hilderinc involved in that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That sounds lovely, and both our characters can prosper. If you want, we can PM/skype each other and discuss what's going to happen to them. I can tell you what I'm thinking for the reveal, and you can decide if you want Hilderinc involved in that.

Makes sense to me. Contact me anyhow/anytime and we can figure it out.

[Nogrod]

I talked with Folwren yesterday on Facebook as we had some matters concerning their June-European trip to discuss. She promised to check in here.

[Folwren]

Hey, hey, folks!! I'm excited to see so much activity! And it really is SO much activity. Wow. I wasn't expecting all these posts.

I didn't read everything - don't have time - and I won't have time for a loooong time, so I'd actually like to hear what the final plan is once it's all drawn together. I'll be ok with anything ya'll decide without me, and if I'm not ok, I'll keep quiet, since I wasn't here to help plan.

I prefer 3-5 year jump, but either 3 or 5 is equally acceptable to me.

Now, Saeryn was pregnant when we last ended writing, and for some reason I felt she had twins, but I'm not sure if we ever established that.

Something to keep in mind is that sometimes boys were sent places to learn trade or take place in someone's household - another lord or knight, etc. - so those of us who have boys growing up in the game may consider that. I don't think that affects me, as that was the reason Javan was sent to Eodwine in the first place.

I will pop in as I have time and throw in opinion if I have one. School is ending next week, and the week after that, I'm leaving for Europe, so no promises of writing. But I am super excited!

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I'd actually like to hear what the final plan is once it's all drawn together.

My thoughts as well. I'll have a fun time trying to get any new character in sync with all the characters and back story written by the fine tight-knit group of writers here. I'm not real big on pre-planning out posts, but prefer to work off what is presented.

It seems the scope of this tale is well beyond a Mead Hall setting. Should I ever have time to read it all (I won't), it maybe would make more sense to me. Instead, I'll wait until all you planners get it sorted and give a summary of the current scene and setting and timeframe.

Happy Writing Everyone!

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Rowenna (Rowenna now written by Feanor of the Peredhil) - may be gone unless there's reason to have her around.

It would be disappointing to me at least - if that's the direction you're taking with her I may end up just writing Scyld out after all, since he never made much of a connection with any of the other characters... on the other hand, if there's going to be drama with the lords again he could perhaps be useful... I'll think about it. I was going to write him as having been away for most of the time jump anyway.

[littlemanpoet]

Firefoot, if you're here to write for Scyld, then writing Rowenna becomes interesting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Now, Saeryn was pregnant when we last ended writing, and for some reason I felt she had twins, but I'm not sure if we ever established that.

I am not sure, but I think there's nothing contradicting that, so if you want it to be that way, I think that might happen. It would be nice. (And depending on the length of the time jump, there might be a couple of very small kids messing around )

Originally Posted by Folwren

Something to keep in mind is that sometimes boys were sent places to learn trade or take place in someone's household - another lord or knight, etc. - so those of us who have boys growing up in the game may consider that. I don't think that affects me, as that was the reason Javan was sent to Eodwine in the first place.

That's actually a pretty good point, why haven't we thought about it. So that's also one way to get rid of characters, and also by the way a good door for new characters to come in (someone taken apprentice at the Hall - even possibly by older characters who are present, specifically, if somebody wanted).

[Mithalwen]

Yes, that is what I was thinking of when I metioned the time jump might enable me to recycle my old character. He is a farm boy at heart but I don't think he will be able to follow his heart's desire without sometime soldiering... so no doubt he would be sent to some lord's household to learn the trade. Or I cold think of someone new.

[Folwren]

Mithalwen, it would be neat if you could bring in an old character, rather than feeling obliged to make a new one.

My character, Javan, was such a character as I mentioned, Legate. That is, he was sent by his father to Eodwine to be trained up in his household.

Originally Posted by Elempi

5 years into the future sounds good to me. Eodwine's wife is an issue. I wonder if Folwren isn't too busy with being a successful teacher these days in RL?

I just now saw this. I won't be too busy to keep up some semblance of a presence for Saeryn (and Thornden and Javan, for that matter), but maybe I won't write as much as I used to.