Riddles in the Downs

[Galadriel55]

That actually fits surprisingly well, but it's not Tuor. And certain things still fit only vaguely - eg "in the war I was no more", and washing grief away. When you hit upon the answer, all the clues will snap into perfect place.

Your thinking is entirely in the correct direction about some of the clues, especially in the first part.

[Galadriel55]

I was born in place up high
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust.
And long ahead my road did lie:
I passed the wall, I hid from all.

And many met me on my way:
The one that came by many caves,
The one that washed the grief away,
The one that's dead upon hard bed.

I always yearned towards the sea,
Till in the war I was no more.
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate.

[Urwen]

Turin perhaps, then? Meeting Gwindor, who fits the second line via the Pools of Ivrin, Nienor, who literally lies upon the river-bed and Gelmir/Arminas who fit the first line for reasons I already gave. He also vanished from the war against Morgoth via his own hand. And I suppose Dor-Lomin is a highland. Also the first stanza is a general interpretation of his life. And the helper is Beleg. The only line that doesn't fit is the yearning for the sea part.

[Galadriel55]

Not Turin.

In both of your guesses, you correctly name 1 element (so a total of 2), but on the wrong lines. Plus your first line interpretation is very close.

[Urwen]

So it's not anyone related to Tuor in any manner?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So it's not anyone related to Tuor in any manner?

If G55 is sticking to her prior form, I don't think it's anyone at all.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

If G55 is sticking to her prior form, I don't think it's anyone at all.

hS

She did say she changes her form once in a while to trip people up, though.

[Urwen]

But if it's so, then maybe Tuor's axe, Dramborleg? It traveled with him and disappeared from war after being taken to Numenor, initially a land of peaceful dwellers.

[Huinesoron]

So... are you SIRION?

I was born in place up high - Eithel Sirion
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust. - The Anfauglith, and Angband (the Hells of Iron)
And long ahead my road did lie: - You're a loooong river
I passed the wall, I hid from all. - You pass through that cave thing at Ramdal (the Long Wall)

And many met me on my way: - Tributaries
The one that came by many caves, - Narog
The one that washed the grief away, - The river that Nienor threw herself into
The one that's dead upon hard bed. - What's the river that comes out of Nan Dungortheb?

I always yearned towards the sea, - Because you're a river.
Till in the war I was no more. - Sirion was destroyed during the War of Wrath
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate. - Probably Earendil, but there's a few people who bopped up and down Sirion.

(And if you are Sirion, does that mean you follow spoken instructions on my phoneon? ^_~)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Yes, indeed. Urwen, your beginning was so close because Sirion is geographically born right next to Mithrim. And you named a couple things Hui's explanation did not, albeit, as I said before, not their intended places. So here is the riddle as I was thinking about it:


I was born in place up high - Eithel Sirion, the Wethrin mountains
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust. - near Anfauglith and Haudh-en-Nirnaeth
And long ahead my road did lie:
I passed the wall, I hid from all. - Andram, and disappears underground after the Falls of Sirion

And many met me on my way:
The one that came by many caves, Esgalduin by Menegroth (though Narog fits as well)
The one that washed the grief away, - Teiglin, which carried away Nienor
The one that's dead upon hard bed. - the Dry River

I always yearned towards the sea, - and always flows to it
Till in the war I was no more. - War of Wrath
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate. - Ulmo would channel his power through Sirion to help out, e.g. to hide Turgon's retreat from the Nirnaeth



And without further ado, over to Hui!

[Huinesoron]

Hah, wow, I managed to get almost every specific wrong, didn't I? Including, embarassingly, the name of Andram (at least I didn't call it Rammas!).

I'll try to get something up later today. The downside of getting the answer is now I have to think of a question!

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Hah, wow, I managed to get almost every specific wrong, didn't I? Including, embarassingly, the name of Andram (at least I didn't call it Rammas!).

Lol. Isn't Ramdal just the east end of Andram? You weren't far off, and in fact I haven't even noticed that when I read your answer.

I think the fact that the riddle can be guessed correctly with a different set of specifics is an indication of lack of specificity in the clues, if anything. You did get the answer right and had a fitting explanation. I did not think the clues were this flexible when I wrote them, but I guess Sirion has a lot of ties to choose from.


ETA: "Hells of Iron" has got to be my favourite on the basis of punny answers. Just shows again that the answer can be so much more original than the basis for the question.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I think the fact that the riddle can be guessed correctly with a different set of specifics is an indication of lack of specificity in the clues, if anything. You did get the answer right and had a fitting explanation. I did not think the clues were this flexible when I wrote them, but I guess Sirion has a lot of ties to choose from.

Well, to an extent. But there's also a big dose of me overfitting - the river out of Dungortheb, for example, doesn't actually exist(!), and wouldn't fit your clue even if it did. (I was thinking of Esgalduin, I think, or possibly Mindeb).

Anyway: this riddle hopefully won't allow multiple interpretations, except in one place where I meant it to.

The fiery fiend,
The golden band,
The faithful steed,
The sword in hand.
Call to them, and you call to me;
From my father's throne, what heights do I see?

hS

[Urwen]

Glorfindel comes to mind.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Glorfindel comes to mind.

Glorfindel is not involved in the answer.

Though if you think that for the reason I think you think that, you're thinking along the right lines.

hS

[Urwen]

Theoden, for the same reasons?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Theoden, for the same reasons?

Theoden is... kind of involved in the question, but not in the answer.

hS

[Urwen]

So he's the one asking the question?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So he's the one asking the question?

No he is not. "Kind of involved in the question" meant kind of involved in the riddle, rather than being particularly closely related to the answer.

Did that make sense? Words are hard.

hS

[Urwen]

The only other answer that has all four elements listed is Gandalf. If he's not correct either, then I am drawing a blank.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The only other answer that has all four elements listed is Gandalf. If he's not correct either, then I am drawing a blank.

Who said the answer has all four elements?

I know you're about to say "You did!", but no, I didn't. Reread the riddle and think about what it actually says.

hS

[Urwen]

If the riddle doesn't have four elements, then why did you include these four lines?

[Urwen]

Are we supposed to read upwards or downwards, like in your 'grey stone' riddle?

[Urwen]

Fiery golden faithful sword

Fiend band steed hand

[Galadriel55]

I have a feeling we are supposed to get 4 answers, then put them together for a speaker, and THEN answer the question. But I can't get the right combination yet. Am I on the right track?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If the riddle doesn't have four elements, then why did you include these four lines?

That is what you are supposed to figure out, yes. To my mind, that's the difference between riddles and trivia games: riddles are tricksy.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Are we supposed to read upwards or downwards, like in your 'grey stone' riddle?

Oh, I liked that one. No. (It's not so much that I try not to have a style, but that I can't even remember my previous riddles well enough to form one.)

Originally Posted by Urwen

Fiery golden faithful sword

Fiend band steed hand

Are we back in 70s Rock groups again?

hS

[Urwen]

The fiery fiend, - A Balrog
The golden band, - One Ring
The faithful steed, - Snowmane and/or Shadowfax
The sword in hand - Glamdring and/or Anduril

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The fiery fiend, - A Balrog
The golden band, - One Ring
The faithful steed, - Snowmane and/or Shadowfax
The sword in hand - Glamdring and/or Anduril

Yes, yes, yes, no, no, no.

hS

[Urwen]

Can't see any other connection between the three you said 'yes' to, unless Gollum learned to ride a horse.

[Urwen]

Oh, wait, I found it.


It's 'bane'. Balrog=Durin's bane, One Ring = Isildur's bane, Snowmane = Theoden's bane. Now I just need to find a sword and a person that are someone's bane.

[Urwen]

Could the answer then be Pippin, wielder of the sword Troll's bane, which he named himself? But what heights did he see? Maybe it means Men, who are taller than him?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Oh, wait, I found it.


It's 'bane'. Balrog=Durin's bane, One Ring = Isildur's bane, Snowmane = Theoden's bane. Now I just need to find a sword and a person that are someone's bane.

You did find it!

Originally Posted by Urwen

Could the answer then be Pippin, wielder of the sword Troll's bane, which he named himself? But what heights did he see? Maybe it means Men, who are taller than him?

Troll's Bane is the sword, yep. You've solved the first four lines, and found what links them!

Now think about what the fifth line actually means, and how it leads to the answer to the sixth.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Can't see any other connection between the three you said 'yes' to, unless Gollum learned to ride a horse.

Precious loves Whitesocks, yes we does! Who's Smeagol's good boy?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Good one, Urwen!

[Urwen]

Call to them, call to me - Shout 'Bane!' and he will come. And as for what heights he sees, Lonely Mountain (possibly)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Call to them, call to me - Shout 'Bane!' and he will come. And as for what heights he sees, Lonely Mountain (possibly)

Correct! The Lonely Mountain is the answer, and Bain son of Bard is the speaker. Very nicely put together. I don't think I even had to point you at 'bane'.

Over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

It was Snowmane that cinched it, really. So, thank you, Snowmane.

Going off on a tangent, but Turin is called 'Glaurung's bane', and I suppose we could call Tuor 'Morleg's bane' as well.

[Urwen]

Here's a short little ditty, made by a little kitty, itty bitty witty kitty.

Gold I am, my kin black or red
To my foes I bring dread
So be careful where you tread
For I will mess with your head

Hint: If you want the answer, I already gave it to you.

[Urwen]

I practically told you guys what the answer is and yet none of you said it. Should I be worried?

[Galadriel55]

Glaurung the Golden, known for messing with heads?


On a tangent, is Smaug given a colour? I thought he was gold too, or is that movieverse messing with my head?

[Urwen]

My research shows he's red (in the books at least), hence the 'red' part. Over to you.