Riddles in the Downs

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I think I know what you're thinking; if you're not, I've got a guess of my own.

hS

I bet you don't know what I am thinking at all, for what I am thinking is a name-play of sorts.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I bet you don't know what I am thinking at all, for what I am thinking is a name-play of sorts.

I would caution you against betting such things, because more than one person can solve a riddle. What is your guess?

[Urwen]

My guess is a dead end. The possible candidate I had was never rescued.

[Galadriel55]

Guesses do that sometimes. Any other thoughts?

[Urwen]

Well, I thought about Dior and Celegorm, both being called 'Fair', but neither of them was imprisoned. Then I thought about Dior and Elured, both having sobriquets of the same meaning, but while imprisoned, Elured wasn't rescued. Then I thought about Beren, who was both humble and imprisoned, but neither of his two namesakes was prideful, and both of his namesakes are the same race as him.

I feel I am so close, but I can't see it....

[Huinesoron]

Well, I had no idea about the riddle as a whole, but once Urwen got us to the right general area:

'Greycloak' is used as a name for both Luthien's dad (Thingol, Sinda-Collo in the Quenya) and Gandalf (Greyhame). Gandalf was also imprisoned in a high place, like Luthien - and rescued by his buddies Radagast and Gwaihir.

It's a shame the structure of the riddle didn't let you mention that they both knew Gwaihir, come to think of it.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, guess I will have to try harder for the right to unleash my masterpiece. But fret not, you will have a hard time solving it when I do.

[Galadriel55]

Indeed! The speaker is Luthien, her double is Arwen. Proud is Thingol Greycloak / Greymantle, and Humble is Gandalf Greyhame / Greymantle / other forms of grey attire.

Did Gwaihir appear in the First Age? I thought Thorondor took all the lead roles there.

Anyways, the riddle was solved very much by a group effort, Urwen identifying the female half and Huey the male half of the characters. Huey had the final explanation, but of course it wouldn't have been possible without Urwen's contributions. I think officially it goes to Huey but I wanna give Urwen a big kudos for cracking the first half!

[Urwen]

Please make one soon.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Did Gwaihir appear in the First Age? I thought Thorondor took all the lead roles there.

I believe Christopher removed the fact that Thorondor's chief vassals (eg when rescuing Beren and Luthien) were Gwaihir and Landroval, because he thought it would be confusing.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Anyways, the riddle was solved very much by a group effort, Urwen identifying the female half and Huey the male half of the characters. Huey had the final explanation, but of course it wouldn't have been possible without Urwen's contributions. I think officially it goes to Huey but I wanna give Urwen a big kudos for cracking the first half!

I'm actually going to pass, both because I think Urwen did way more than half of the work (including actually mentioning both Elu and Mithrandir, in the correct halves of the riddle and all!), and because I don't have anything at all in mind. So unless you don't want it, Urwen, it's all yours.

hS

[Urwen]

I actually had a Legate-style riddle of my own prepared.


I stood tall for a long time
I saw them in their prime
I witnessed the downfall
And the death of us all

Gone was the joy
Gone was the splendor
But your heart remained true
When they had closed that door

You turned to me
For their own sake
And now, at the end
We'll leave this land

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I believe Christopher removed the fact that Thorondor's chief vassals (eg when rescuing Beren and Luthien) were Gwaihir and Landroval, because he thought it would be confusing.

I wonder now, what happened to Thorondor? Where is he in the Third Age? Am I forgetting something from the end of the Sil?

Looking forward to your masterpiece, Urwen!

Edit: crossed with Urwen. Will take a look and a thought at the riddle.

[Galadriel55]

Hmm, Miriel and Meneltarma? Meneltarma being the one that stood tall through Numenor's prime and its downfall. Not sure what the second stanza is, but Tar-Miriel's heart did remain true to the Faithful and their morals. She fled to Meneltarma to plead for the Numenorians, not just to save her own life, but both were drowned by the giant wave.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Hmm, Miriel and Meneltarma? Meneltarma being the one that stood tall through Numenor's prime and its downfall. Not sure what the second stanza is, but Tar-Miriel's heart did remain true to the Faithful and their morals. She fled to Meneltarma to plead for the Numenorians, not just to save her own life, but both were drowned by the giant wave.

I worked on it for two days and it got cracked in seconds. Guess even the best effort is not enough. Maybe I shouldn't have been so vocal about characters I like....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I worked on it for two days and it got cracked in seconds. Guess even the best effort is not enough. Maybe I shouldn't have been so vocal about characters I like....

Or maybe make riddles about a variety of characters? But in any case, that wasn't how I solved the riddle, your liking for Miriel was just confirmatory after I figured it out. It was a constellation of associations that lead me to the Downfall of Numenor, and from there to Meneltarma.

I don't have any ideas ready at the moment. Can I leave the thread open for whoever thinks of something first?

[Urwen]

I don't think it's against the rules, so yea....

[Urwen]

Wanna make one, Huey?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Wanna make one, Huey?

Um, maybe something real quick?

Stand on the mountain
By the way forgot;
The clouds roll over
Grey and lonely spot.
Stone covering fire
When will you spot?

hS

[Urwen]

Fanuidhol?

[Galadriel55]

For some reason this is giving me Book 1 vibes. Trolls? Weathertop?

If I go that way, the forgotten way makes most sense as the Greenway, but that doesn't bring me to an answer.

If I had to formulate a solid guess, it would be Aragorn and the hobbits standing on Weathertop, finding Gandalf's message in the stones.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Fanuidhol?

Nope.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

For some reason this is giving me Book 1 vibes. Trolls? Weathertop?

If I go that way, the forgotten way makes most sense as the Greenway, but that doesn't bring me to an answer.

If I had to formulate a solid guess, it would be Aragorn and the hobbits standing on Weathertop, finding Gandalf's message in the stones.

I'm afraid none of this is even close (specificially including, it's not from LotR Book 1).

I will promise the answer is not at all obscure.

hS

[Urwen]

It's a mountain, though? The answer?

Otherwise, I am thinking Narya, Ring of Fire, with a stone on it.

Or maybe Frodo and Sam, standing on a random mountain, gazing at Orodruin, which is literally a stone above fire?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

It's a mountain, though? The answer?

The answer is a when, not a where. A mountain is involved, though (which... is why it's mentioned in the first line of the riddle, though, I guess).

Originally Posted by Urwen

Otherwise, I am thinking Narya, Ring of Fire, with a stone on it.

Or maybe Frodo and Sam, standing on a random mountain, gazing at Orodruin, which is literally a stone above fire?

Neither of these.

There are no metaphors in the riddle.

hS

[Urwen]

The beacons of Gondor being lit?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

The beacons of Gondor being lit?

Nope. I assume you're thinking of the Halifirien as being 'by the way forgot'? It's a nice, thought, but no.

Nobody has found the right book yet.

hS

[Urwen]

So it is a mountain next to a forgotten road?

[Galadriel55]

Is the answer, perhaps, on Durin's Day?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Is the answer, perhaps, on Durin's Day?

It is. Can you be any more specific? I mean, 24 hours is a long time.

hS

[Urwen]

At dusk, right before the sun falls.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

At dusk, right before the sun falls.

Again, yes... there is a specific answer of the form 'When ___ ___ ___' to this riddle. (Line lengths are not representative.)

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the only thing I could find was this:

When on this day both the Sun and Moon may be seen in the sky together, it is called Durin's Day. The Moon-letters written on the Thror's Map predicted that on Durin's Day the last light of the Sun as night fell would reveal the secret door into the Lonely Mountain.

[Galadriel55]

How about, when the thrush knocks?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

How about, when the thrush knocks?

Correct! This is exactly when you

Stand on the mountain
By the way forgot;
The clouds roll over
Grey and lonely spot.
Stone covering fire



I think this one goes to G55, on balance.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Correct! This is exactly when you

Stand on the mountain
By the way forgot;
The clouds roll over
Grey and lonely spot.
Stone covering fire

Ooohhh!


Cheers. Will think of something.

[Galadriel55]

Something simple again:


By charming stream and woodland quaint,
By ancient hills and deathless laiks,
By fruit with golden sheen I dwell.
What am I, who can tell?

[Urwen]

Tom Bombadil?

By charming stream and woodland quaint, - Old Forest and Withywindle
By ancient hills and deathless laiks, - Barrow Downs
By fruit with golden sheen I dwell. - Goldberry
What am I, who can tell?

[Galadriel55]

Indeed, who can tell what Tom B really is? Even the Professor himself might not know. Over to you.

[Urwen]

Here is another easy one:

Made by the greater
Wielded by the lesser
I had succeeded
My purpose fulfilled

I came from the place of woe
To destroy the ancient foe
From darkness unto light
To drive back the night

[Pervinca Took]

Is it Merry's barrow-blade?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is it Merry's barrow-blade?

Ye.