TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[Boromir88]

The Dark Monarch isn't even worthy enough to scrub my boots. She's a maggot-feeder...literally

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Ok, one last post, gotta reply to Pitchwife.

Why would I argue with phantom if I were the bear? I would be perfectly content to let people think I was going to help. I was a bear once, though.

I said that not Pitchwife. It is a mix of gut feeling and the idea that the bear is someone who spoke about the bear a whole lot.

Crossed with Boro's 321

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The Dark Monarch isn't even worthy enough to scrub my boots. She's a maggot-feeder...literally

Since she is no longer scrubbing your boots she can scrub mine.

[wilwarin538]

Sticking with my theme:

Something is rotten in the state of Ohio.

[Pitchwife]

Answering my own question from last post: because a No-voter will have to give reasons next Day, whereas a Fea-voter can always say xe followed phantom's suggestion. OK.

Rikae - I never said, nor meant to imply, that you're the bear (Hakon said that). You could be (not accusing you, just mentioning the possibility) a wolf who doesn't want the bear to turn on the wolves. You could be an innocent who simply happens to disagree with phantom. Most probably the latter.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Since she is no longer scrubbing your boots she can scrub mine.

If you want to catch Butterflitilicouctus that's your loss...not mine.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Sticking with my theme:

Something is rotten in the state of Ohio.

It's called your stench, I can smell you from here.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

It's called your stench, I can smell you from here.

The tartness of your face sours ripe grapes.

(wayyy too much fun)

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Yeah, I doubt you're the Bear, Rikae. Anyway, I'm kind of busy now, but I'll be around later. See ya soon.

Yeah, yeah, you think I'm a wolf trying to convince the bear not to go for me. (Never mind that I never actually argued that the bear should *avoid* killing wolves, just that it was ridiculous for you to expect xey would listen to you. Heck, I think most players, whether on your side or not, are inclined to do the opposite of what you say, even if it's what they planned on doing in the first place.)

You know, part of me thinks the point of the whole bear-advising exercise was to generate false suspects among those who couldn't stand idly by and listen to nonsense. If you vote for me, you'll prove it and I shall immediately vote for you.

Why do you people have to keep dragging me back to this game?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Rikae - I never said, nor meant to imply, that you're the bear (Hakon said that).

Yes, I don't know why I thought that was you.

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, I don't know why I thought that was you.

His post was right above one of yours and mine was right under it. You might have seen it the other way around at a glance.

[Lariren Shadow]

A list...that pretty much says nothing much as some people haven't been talking at all.

Rosemancer (alona): Has posted very little, and seems to be devoid of substence.

Lady Tum (autume): Hasn’t said much at all.

Butterfingers (Brinn): Says her vote toDay will be useless because she can’t be around. And then does vote that way.

Felis Grey (Durelin): Have heard nothing from her at all.

Docter Girlfriend (Fea): Is doomed. Nothing more to say.

Celibateman (Form): Posted, voted for Mira, is annoyed with us, hates Day 1. I have no idea about him at all. I would like to see more but he also said he isn’t feeling well so I will not hold not posting against him.

Leaf man (Hakon): Comes up with ideas and people jump down his throat. But some of the ideas are cheating as we have been told. Seems like a Day 1 lynch canidate because of this.

Docter Electron (Zil): I have no idea.

Prin-Guin (Lommy): We have been told that she is not going to be posting much for the first few days. So I have no idea what to think of her.

The Incredible Sulk (Mac): Is slightly tripping my radar but not much else. I can’t pinpoint what it is but he just seems to be just giving me bad feelings.

Narcolepsy girl (Mira): Has to be a big girl. I don’t think voting her is a good option either.

Athletes Foot Man (Morm): Seems to be…I actually have no idea. His posts seem logical but they are also short.

The Reverser (Nerwen): Was an early option for a lynch because of the reverse typing. Other than that, nothing much else.

Laughing Lass (Nessa): No idea at all.

Word Cloud Girl (Nienna): Has to be a big girl and is in class as well. I have no idea but jumped on the whole voting for Fea thing really quickly. I’m not sure about lynching her Day 1 again, but, well, that didn’t seem right with me.

Studebaker Hawk (Pitchwife): I have no idea whatsoever.

Doktor Von und Zum Quatsch (Rikae): Wants more talk. She seems innocent enough to me. Her ideas seem sound as well.

Movie quotes girl (Sally): Claims to be innocent. And keeps her Hakon votes. I’m leaning towards believing her if only because she is not looking like wolf!Sally.

Mr. E. (Shasta): Is in the shadows. I’ve got nothing.

Candor Man (the phantom): Supposedly speaking the truth. Gave some good ideas but I want to keep an eye on him. He seems at first glance to be helpful but closer he could be rather suspicious.

Bah I'm beginning to agree with this hating of Day 1.

[Pitchwife]

Opinions continued and in part updated (in alphabetical order):
Brinn - most of what she's said so far sounds good.
Inzil - same (good point about the body count).
morm - apart from his vote for Hakon, on which I've commented above, he gives sound advice and good arguments.
Rikae - better after end of bear discussion.
the phantom - makes controversial suggestions and backs them up, I like that. I can understand why some people would find his ideas suspicious, but at least he's been starting discussions and given us something to chew - which, I suspect, was his purpose making those suggestions in the first place.
To be continued.

[Rikae]

A question for everyone: how do you feel about the phantom (in general, not in this game specifically). Do you tend to trust him?

Does anyone have strong feelings about Hakon, alona, Nessa or autume (the newer players, I think)?

Also, if you fear me, please step forward - I'd enjoy the ego boost.

EDIT: Bolding names and also want to clarify - strong feelings about the newbies in general, rather than in this game.

[Lariren Shadow]

I have some feelings about them.

Alona: Is trying hard. She is working things out and likes the analization. She is just busy at the moment. She tends to have well thought out ideas.

Hakon: Well...he is trying to work things out. He seems to be getting on people's nerves and I can see why.

Nessa: Was a very sneaky wolf in my game. But I don't think she is again. However, she was also as silent then too.

Tum: I think is busy. Though I'm not sure.

Also I have been asked to point out that Mira is also excused from not participating.

[Rikae]

There's something about Pitchwife... I read his posts and find myself nodding my head, going "at least someone is making some sense"... but in my past experience, posts like that usually came from wolves. Perhaps it's because of the wolfish tendency to be non-controversial and so on...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

A question for everyone: how do you feel about the phantom (in general, not in this game specifically). Do you tend to trust him?

I doubt many ever do. Maybe Form and Morm do a bit. I'd say that trusting Phantom is probably an acquired taste, only adopted by those who have dealt with me and come to believe the best way of dealing with me is go with it and hope for the best, as the odds simply favor that approach.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yeah, yeah, you think I'm a wolf trying to convince the bear not to go for me. (Never mind that I never actually argued that the bear should *avoid* killing wolves, just that it was ridiculous for you to expect xey would listen to you. Heck, I think most players, whether on your side or not, are inclined to do the opposite of what you say, even if it's what they planned on doing in the first place.)

You know, part of me thinks the point of the whole bear-advising exercise was to generate false suspects among those who couldn't stand idly by and listen to nonsense. If you vote for me, you'll prove it and I shall immediately vote for you.

Why do you people have to keep dragging me back to this game?

Hey now, all I said was that you probably aren't the Bear (i.e. I do not support anyone who suspects you for it). I made no accusation. You're the one who brought up the suspicion I voiced earlier about Wolvery. You should've left it lie, because now I have to respond, and I fear we'll have the same discussion all over again.

You say your objection is that you think it's silly that the Bear might listen to me? Well, first off, I have influenced other players before. You know I have. Second, who cares? If they dont' listen then they don't. Why bother being annoyed by me saying something that you figure will be ignored anyway?

And why do you keep calling it "nonsense"? It's not. It makes perfect sense to make sure the Bear is aware that the Villains + Cobbler are a huge threat to his victory. It makes sense from his perspective and from the villager perspective. It in no way, shape, or form qualifies as "nonsense". My biggest problem with you is you keep on trying to paint a useful idea as "nonsense", as if you're trying to discredit it. Why discredit an idea that will only help if adopted? That makes zero sense. You are the one making "nonsense" by even arguing about this.

Now seriously, you need to drop it. My suggestion was perfectly sensible as well as (most importantly) completely harmless to innocents, so there is nothing to be gained by opposing it. We're succeeding only in boring others at this point. Again, saying anything negative about the Bear killing the Villains makes no sense and accomplishes nothing unless you for some reason don't want baddies to die.

[autume98]

This is my first game playing with tp. Right now I'm not sure whether to trust him or not. So I'm going to keep an eye on him.

I'm also little suspicious of Rikae. This is my second game with her. So I'm also keeping an eye on her.

[Pitchwife]

List continued (and, I think, complete now).
alona - nothing conclusive beyond her vote, which looks a little bit like hiding behind morm's back.
autume - even less to go on.
Form - nothing to add to what Lari said.
Lari - thanks for the list and feelings.
Mira - absent since the morning hours.
Nessa - nothing conclusive, but made some effort to contribute to discussion early on.
Nienna - has been very quiet but is cool with Fea-voting. Anything else?
sally - looked good to me until her locked third vote for an easy target. But would she do something as obvious if she were a wolf? Or would she exactly because people would think she wouldn't? I don't know her enough to answer that.
Shasta - needs to come back!

Rikae - would you rather I'd stop making sense, throw out some wild suspicions and start voting for people I find annoying? Can't do the latter, as none of you has yet annoyed me enough. As for suspicions, I've voiced some - if you want it spelled out again: morm, alona, Sally (not necessarily in this order of importance). Or should I suggest something outrageous, like not lynching the bear if we catch xem?
You've got a point, however - if I were a wolf, I might play exactly like I'm playing now, or at least try to. Or maybe not - I've never been one yet (including this game, I mean!), so I don't know.

(x-ed with phantom and autume)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I agree with the gifteds trusting each other to some extent. I think that the seer and ranger most likely trust each other but the hunter is one that distrusts the other gifteds. As for the wolves one is probably a feared, one is a distrusted person and the final one a trusted person.

Well... anything's possible– but we can't lynch toDay based on that reasoning, anyway.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Ok so yes Fea looks like a good guess but...I don't know. She's doomed anyway and the problem will be that toMorrow we won't be able to analyze votes because we just voted for a doomed player. I think that's whats getting to me. To me, it would seem that we would get two Day 1s then because we would have about as much to go on.

The trouble is, if we don't vote Fea, Hakon gets it, and I'm not really getting wolf-vibes off him; also the votes on him so far look pretty dodgy. He can't be the bear, either– not unless he's been trying to surrender all Day.

Originally Posted by Hakon

I have four people I am most suspicous of. The first of these being Mormegil. I have a gut feeling that something is off with him and his vote for me seems way too rushed. I think he might be a wolf but this is just off of a gut feeling.

The next person is Sally. This is also mostly a gut feeling but also on some stuff she said. I think she might be the cobbler and trying to frame me. She said it looks like I want to be the cobbler and that makes me think that maybe she is the cobbler.

Well, she's suspiciously cheerful, which might mean she's back in her favourite role (she's pretty good at cobblering)... but to tell the truth, Hakon, it has occurred to me in the course of this Day that you might, in fact, be a cobbler.

Originally Posted by Hakon

The third person is The Phantom. He actually seems very innocent it just that he is very active and suggesting good ideas. In in my opinion that is the best way to hide being a wolf.

And also the best way to catch wolves...

Originally Posted by Hakon

What I originally thought was that Phantom was the bear with all of his bear talk. That leads me to my fourth person, Rikae. I think she might be the bear. I think this because she argued against Phantom's idea of the bear helping and my idea as well. This makes me think that she is the bear and she wishes to not help. Most of these are bad theories, oh well. Those are the four people I am most suspicious of.

Can't I be the bear, too, Hakon? I'm feeling left out.

Originally Posted by Rikae

A question for everyone: how do you feel about the phantom (in general, not in this game specifically). Do you tend to trust him?

Does anyone have strong feelings about Hakon, alona, Nessa or autume (the newer players, I think)?

Also, if you fear me, please step forward - I'd enjoy the ego boost.

a.) No.

b.) No.

c.) Yes.

EDIT: X'd since Rikae.

[Rikae]

tp - not nonsense for the bear to kill the wolves, nonsense for you to be able to control the bear. The only way I would believe that is if you are the bear.
And yeah, enough of that - except I still find it suspicious, as well as the Fea thing.

Originally Posted by autume98

I'm also little suspicious of Rikae. This is my second game with her. So I'm also keeping an eye on her.

Hm, you mean the one where I was the hunter? Yeah, hunters are scary, aren't they?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The trouble is, if we don't vote Fea, Hakon gets it.

Says who? Most people haven't voted yet.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

c.) Yes.

Thanks, the feeling's mutual.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Rikae - would you rather I'd stop making sense, throw out some wild suspicions and start voting for people I find annoying? Can't do the latter, as none of you has yet annoyed me enough. As for suspicions, I've voiced some - if you want it spelled out again: morm, alona, Sally (not necessarily in this order of importance). Or should I suggest something outrageous, like not lynching the bear if we catch xem?
You've got a point, however - if I were a wolf, I might play exactly like I'm playing now, or at least try to. Or maybe not - I've never been one yet (including this game, I mean!), so I don't know.

Hm, also a rather wolfish reaction. Defensive. Of course might be typical of a relatively new player unused to being suspected, too.
It's in the subtle things. The shortness of the posts. The lack of questioning. The frequency of agreement with other players. "would you rather I X" is a wolfish answer, usually, in my book. It's sort of "hey, you've wounded my pride, I'm wolfing well!" rather than "I'm innocent", somehow... (and I say this having been on the other side of it a few times as well).

[Hakon]

Originally posted by Nerwen
a.) No.

b.) No.

c.) Yes.

To which specific question are those answers for? There are four new players that Rikae listed and then there is the question about Phantom. You only gave three answers.

[the phantom]

Hakon- I believe she lumped the players together in her second answer.

[Hakon]

That makes sense. I did not see that and now I feel foolish.

[Pitchwife]

Answering Rikae's questions -
the phantom: honestly, I was rather scared of playing with him in my second game ever, as I reckoned he'd be completely inscrutable (which he is). Surprisingly, I find myself rather inclined to go with it and and hope for the best, as he puts it himself. If he's a wolf, he's much too cunning for me, so I might as well take him at face value, at least until he starts contradicting himself or makes a vote I find suspicious.
Hakon: the strongest feeling I've ever had about him was for persistently hurting my pet Petty-dwarf in Hurt and Heal, and that wasn't really strong.
alona and autume: No strong feelings on either.
Nessa: nothing strong, except I think she may be the most cunning of the newbies.
And Rikae, sorry, but I don't fear you. Should I?

[the phantom]

I was about to make a list, but after seeing how little some people have talked it seemed pointless. Over half my list would be "I need to see more". That would be very helpful I'm sure.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

But fine. Since I know you all will give me a bunch of crap if I vote Fea, I won't. So my vote will be random instead.


There. Now I don't want to hear any crap about it since it seems you all were asking I vote for someone random instead of a soon-to-be-dead player. And so I have. And at least it's better than voting Hakon who I think is an easy lynch for Day

Wow Brinn, this seems very odd. Again you've done something odd to me. It has nothing to do with the vote for me. I couldn't care less about that but what is strange is the willingness to do what you perceive the crowd to want. There are still plenty that are okay with the Fea lynch plan. When somebody is too worried about looking good and not doing what they feel is best it worries me.

ps I am only to this point on reading.

[the phantom]

Does anyone fancy being Nog for the day?

Okay- I'll do it.

When it comes time to vote, Day 1 is pretty random, so I plan on taking my chances with someone who's keeping mum and likely to continue doing so. Die, submarines, die!! Fear the wrath of Noggins!!

[Rikae]

Well, if we go with the theory that at least some wolves are likely to be chosen from among those no one mentioned, our newbies should need scrutiny.
If phantom is, as I thought, widely feared and distrusted - well, I'm not sure what to conclude from it at this point. He attracts so much attention I'm generally tempted to leave him to the seer, but then, we may be kicking ourselves later for keeping him around if he's evil, and if it's true he's never been lynched that's good reason to lynch him in itself. Shame morm locked in his vote.

[Hakon]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Answering Rikae's questions -
the phantom: honestly, I was rather scared of playing with him in my second game ever, as I reckoned he'd be completely inscrutable (which he is). Surprisingly, I find myself rather inclined to go with it and and hope for the best, as he puts it himself. If he's a wolf, he's much too cunning for me, so I might as well take him at face value, at least until he starts contradicting himself or makes a vote I find suspicious.
Hakon: the strongest feeling I've ever had about him was for persistently hurting my pet Petty-dwarf in Hurt and Heal, and that wasn't really strong.
alona and autume: No strong feelings on either.
Nessa: nothing strong, except I think she may be the most cunning of the newbies.
And Rikae, sorry, but I don't fear you. Should I?

Out of all us newbies Nessa and Autume have played more games then the rest of us. Why do you think Nessa is the most cunning? Is it cause she was the wolf last game?

[Rikae]

Why do I get the feeling phantom is repeating what I said before...?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

A question for everyone: how do you feel about the phantom (in general, not in this game specifically). Do you tend to trust him?

Well I think he's lucid. I like his taste in sports, if not teams. He seems to look nice when dressed up which would be most often I would guess.

No more seriously I feel I read him fairly well overall. Part of this comes from time and number of games spent with him some of it comes from knowing him and understanding who he is. I have never actually met tummy in rl though.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

tp - not nonsense for the bear to kill the wolves, nonsense for you to be able to control the bear. The only way I would believe that is if you are the bear.
And yeah, enough of that - except I still find it suspicious, as well as the Fea thing.

I do agree with you here. One of the reasons I'm keeping an eye on tp.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hm, you mean the one where I was the hunter? Yeah, hunters are scary, aren't they?

That'd be the one. And they are very scary.

[the phantom]

I have been lynched before, Rikae, so there's no chance for history there.

[Inziladun]

I've played one game with tp prior, and up to the last minute I thought he was the Cobbler. I would have thought him a wolf if I hadn't been one myself. I wouldn't say I trust him; he's made sense somewhat, but I don't agree with the idea of voting Fea (have I said that already? ).

The newbies I don't have much of a read on at the moment. I've been at work all day, but I should have more time to read before DL.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Out of all us newbies Nessa and Autume have played more games then the rest of us. Why do you think Nessa is the most cunning? Is it cause she was the wolf last game?

That, and IIRC she was the last wolf standing, flushed out only by a concerted action of the gifteds. Also she seems to have gotten the hang of the game quite well, if I may say so, being a newbie myself (this is only my second game).

[autume98]

I'm going to have to put my vote in now since I'm going to be busy this evening.

++Hakon

[Durelin]

Good evening...

All those who liked the vote-for-Fea idea are on my naughty list. Of course the only ones I recall are phantom and Brinn...

phantom...his village-advice and game plans are always off-putting. But I agree with a good bit of what Rikae has been saying about his posts. His post #240 I must comment on - Rikae is furthering useless discussion? I think she's arguing that said discussion is useless and pointing this out to people...as something possibly suspicious. At least I find aspects of the discussion bothersome in a suspiscion sort of way. And she certainly has been getting reactions.

Brinn...grumpy. Think I disagree with everything she's said. Not that I remember much of it.

Nessa...very forced seeming. Especially when she seemed like she was sweet-talking Rikae. I don't know her, though, so...

Hakon...I think there was rudeness toward him. I don't like what he has suggested and discussed so far, but right now I think that's pretty much just personality clash.

I'm not going to waste time discussing the surveys (other than wasting time arguing that it's a waste of time ). However reading what people sent him affected Boro's role assigning, we're not going to be able to figure it out.

I find it funny that phantom wanted to do a show-and-tell so badly. Maybe WW serves as his therapy, though personally I feel all you manic WW players need to seek therapy.

[Rikae]

Hm, I thought you had played more, Pitchwife. Another question, then - does anyone have a strong opinion on Pitchwife, in general?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

The tartness of your face sours ripe grapes.

(wayyy too much fun)

Your hair is as greasy as a black banana peel.