The Silmarillion Survivor

[Thinlómien]

Great! One vote more to Androg!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Androg

For the simpel reason that I like Tilion, but I do think that mormegil's plan is fantastic.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

But I can't vote with you, Ang. I'd have to award myself the apple!

Androg was responsible for more petty-dwarf deaths than anyone else I can think of.

You forget Hurin my dear Saucie...one of my favorites and the actual extinguisher of the Petty-dwarf race so your logic is flawed in this as I see it.

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by Androg Dwarf-Killer

'Where is this house of yours?' said Androg. 'It must be good indeed if Androg is to share it with a Dwarf. For Androg does not like Dwarves. His people brought few good tales of that race out of the East.'

A straightforward proclamation of anti-dwarfism. Notice how Androg refers to himself in the third person, a characteristic usually found in psychos.

Originally Posted by Androg Dwarf-Killer

Then Androg was all for going forward. 'Attack first!' he said. 'There may be a hive of them; but they are small.'

He shows an apalling willingness to slaughter dwarves in their own home.

Originally Posted by Poor Old Mim

'This is my son, pierced by an arrow. Now he is beyond speech. He died at sunset. Your bonds held me from healing him.'

Androg has already slain one dwarf, let it not go any further!

[arcticstorm]

I am all for a double eviction, and hopefully winning this challenge in any way possible.

--Androg

[Anguirel]

Tilion-5
Androg-5

Results coming up soon...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY EIGHT (M-e)

One evening, the Gaurwaith were on one of their usual killing sprees. In the darkness something short and dark hurtled past them, and Androg drew back the string of his longbow, preparing to shoot it...

Meanwhile, in the sky, Tilion could restrain his longing for Arien no longer! As she set, he charged after her; but his craft span out of control, and he hurtled ever downwards...

And crashed to earth right on top of the Gaurwaith, killing all of them except Turin, who with his usual good luck was standing about a yard out of harm's way. The Moon was shattered into pieces, and Tilion cast, disgraced, into the deeps of the Void, where Manwe awaited him...

As for Androg, he was caught at the very centre, and his body was pulverised.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Khim, thanking Mahal for his narrow escape, ran to his father's side. Ibun was also present. The three plotted to fall on the last bandit who had escaped, the man with the black sword, and steal all his gold. So they crept up behind him, clubs and nets at the ready.

A strange new feeling was coming over them. With the moonlight gone, repressed emotions rose to the surface as they advanced. For Petty-Dwarves, it would become apparent, were in fact fast-breeding hermaphrodites when given the right conditions. So it was that by the time they reached Turin, they were an army three hundred strong.

Unfortunately, armies three hundred strong were exactly what Turin specialied in mincing. He whirled round to face his stalkers, and exterminated them all except Mim, whom he interrogated, and forced to lead him to the Petty-Dwarven dwelling...

It's Day Nine in Middle-earth...the contestants...

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

Challenge the ninth-LOVE TETRAHEDRONS. Anticipating Turin's arrival in Nargothrond, make the romantic situation caused by him as convoluted as possible.

Voting will close at 7:30am GMT tomorrow.

[Celuien]

A difficult challenge.

Gwindor has to stay to keep the Turin-Finduilas-Gwindor portion of the situation going. An obvious choice would be to vote off Orodreth to make Finduilas Queen of Nargothrond. As queen, she's bound to draw more suitors. Voting of the Curse of Morgoth is another obvious choice since that option takes some of the gloominess off Turin.

[Thinlómien]

Curufin went already - wouldn't it be time for Celegorm to go? They're quite equal idiots... (says a noldo-fan... Well, I'm a bit crazy...)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Curufin went already - wouldn't it be time for Celegorm to go? They're quite equal idiots... (says a noldo-fan... Well, I'm a bit crazy...)

Don't think it would help us completing our task though.

Celuien has two sugestions of who to vote for as for Orodreth: Are you sure that it will be Finduilas who is made queen? Maybe it will be Galadriel.

I think it would be interesting if we were to vote of "the curse of Morgoth"

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Don't think it would help us completing our task though.

Celuien has two sugestions of who to vote for as for Orodreth: Are you sure that it will be Finduilas who is made queen? Maybe it will be Galadriel.

I think it would be interesting if we were to vote of "the curse of Morgoth"

I didn't even notice the challenge
"Always read the rules before starting to play..."

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, we could vote off Arien, thereby plunging Beleriand into darkness, because moonlight is so much more romantic. But then, a bunch of nitwits went and voted off Tilion (and therefore the Moon) ...

Still, the stars would remain. And candlelight is pretty romantic. Surely such conditions would be bound to make all the ladies swoon for a chap like Turin ...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Don't think it would help us completing our task though.

Celuien has two sugestions of who to vote for as for Orodreth: Are you sure that it will be Finduilas who is made queen? Maybe it will be Galadriel.

I think it would be interesting if we were to vote of "the curse of Morgoth"

Well, my personal opinion is that Finduilas should ascend to Queen as Orodreth's daughter. But I can't speak for what goes on in the mind of our Ang-mod. At any rate, it would initiate another power struggle and political intrigue, which is always interesting for romance. At any rate, a Galadriel/Finduilas face off would be fun.

I'm not sure that I want to plunge Middle-earth into darkness again by voting off the Sun. At least, I don't want to do that while the baddies are still here.

I'm leaning somewhat toward the Curse of Morgoth. Having a curse hanging over his head is a major dampener on Turin's life right now. Who knows what he'll do as the dashing, handsome hero without having to mope about complaining about being the son of ill-fate?

[Gothmog]

Well, we could vote off Arien, thereby plunging Beleriand into darkness, because moonlight is so much more romantic. But then, a bunch of nitwits went and voted off Tilion (and therefore the Moon) ...

Still, the stars would remain. And candlelight is pretty romantic. Surely such conditions would be bound to make all the ladies swoon for a chap like Turin ...

Plus, if it's dark enough there'll be impossible to seperate people and a few loving couples could be created by pure luck!

But wouldn't ME be a gloomy place without both the sun and the moon?

As always, there's plenty of ways to deal with this problem. If we're going to make Turin's lovelife more convoluted, we can either make more women fall for him, make more men fall for Finduilas, make Finduilas fall fall for more men and so on. I've always thought the "romantic situation" was tricky and tragic enough without any more twistes.

I wonder how a removal of the curse of Morgoth would help in this situation? By removing this heavy burden, do you think Turin will attract more women? Or be more willing to give his heart to someone?

And if we removed Orodreth and if Finduilas was to be queen and thereby drawing more suitors to her, would that make things much worse? What I would like to do is to add a second girl, someone to love Gwindor but be loved by Turin. That would be the ultimate situation, but could that be done? Maybe not but I'll think about it and see if I can come up with a solution...

[Anguirel]

Dare I suggest that Galadriel might be a little more relaxed and open to joining in without a certain Sinda...?

Though it cuts at the heart to bring it up...

[Gothmog]

Are you suggesting Celeborn, Ang? Cuz I thought of him, but thought that if that's going to work, we'll need a little help from the mod in the upcoming write-up

[Anguirel]

That was indeed my point. And I do try my best to be vaguely impartial. In this case, I don't see Galadriel sitting demurely at home after something happens to her husband...even if I like him.

Another option-vote off Morwen, emancipate Nienor and throw her into the mix. Incidentally, I see I've been mispelling her as Nienna...must go back and correct...

[Gothmog]

Ah, you read my mind Ang! But would Turin fall in love with Nienor? Remember this is before Glaurung put his spell on Turin. He might realize who she is.

In the light of my previous post and a mod who might have the same thoughts, I vote

++Celeborn

Not only will it (maybe) push a mourning and lonely Galadriel in the arms of Turin (go visit her brother is logic after such a loss), but we'll also get rid of that stuck-up pretending-to-be-king-while-the-queen-rules Celeborn. Let's just hope Celebrian is already born.

[Anguirel]

Point of information: it's really Olwe who's pretending to be King while the Queen rules...

However, our thoughts are essentially the same. Sorry, Celeborn...

++CELEBORN

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

we'll also get rid of that stuck-up pretending-to-be-king-while-the-queen-rules Celeborn.

which is persisely why you shouldn't vote Celeborn. I don't ever recall Celeborn acting "stuck up" in my past readings. Celeborn is never given the credit he deserves. I used to think he was a bit of a pansy myself, until i read a bit on him (which insedentally i forget). but i still cling to the fact that he is very awesome. shaky? yes. but all the same, celeborn must stay.

besides, i think that if celeborn went, galadriel would become sad, lonely and withdrawn. her heart would be closed to all new loves. she would lack her will to rule, and would possibly be allowed to return to valinor (what good is a lackluster leader), which having lost all love of life, she would doubtlessly accept. besides, there would be drastic implications for the fellowship, and aragorn/gondor/the fourth age (or whatever is the age of men). no celebrindal, no arwen. no arwen, rejoining of the branches of the half-eleven. no celeborn, no driven, willful galadriel ruling lorien. no lorien, no succor for the fellowship. and we all no what that means. domination of evil.

orodreth seems like a good pick to me. morwen also. for reasons stated in other people's posts.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Arien.

The reasons others have said are good enough for me.

[Gothmog]

Ang:

Point of information: it's really Olwe who's pretending to be King while the Queen rules...

Correct...I thought of the Lotr-Celeborn. I shouldn't.

And Eonwe: to start with, how do you know there wouldn't be a Arwen? Celebrian might already be born and she needs a strong father-figure when Celeborn is gone. That will force Galadriel to go looking for a suitable man. And even if she's not looking for it, the visit in Nargothrond will make her meet Turin. Either he falls in love with her or she falls in love with him, it's written in the stars

Second: what do we care about the age of men, Aragorn, the fellowship or anything else far in the future? This is Silmarillion Survivor and we're not supposed to take the future in account. Look to the task and you'll see this is the best solution. The outcome is unpredictable, but just by throwing in an other female in the equation the possibility for disaster will be so much greater.

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by the guy above me

Celebrian might already be born and she needs a strong father-figure when Celeborn is gone.

bolding mine...

well, ok, point taken about the age of men. however...

The outcome is unpredictable, but just by throwing in an other female in the equation the possibility for disaster will be so much greater.

i still think galadriel will become disinterested with life without celeborn. not even turin will revive her heart and passion for life. not to mention that there are other places she could look to for solace, such as melian (right were she is), or teh wilderness, where all hearts find peace.

and getting rid of celeborn would produce one possible addetive. getting rid of orodreth would produce many, many suitors for findulias' hand.

oo, oo, i just though of this too! when findulias sees that galadriel and turin have something going, she will turn back to Gwindor (both turin and findulias didn't really want to fall in love with eachother), thereby rendering the situation: defused.

hopefully these reasons will give teh celeborn bandwagon a few flat tires. if not ill try again...

[Gothmog]

Eonwe:

oo, oo, i just though of this too! when findulias sees that galadriel and turin have something going, she will turn back to Gwindor (both turin and findulias didn't really want to fall in love with eachother), thereby rendering the situation: defused.

Turin did never fall in love with Finduilas, did he?

Finduilas:

Túrin son of Húrin loves me not;nor will

Besides, I doubt she could have turned back to Gwindor as you say. She can't help falling in love with Turin and she can't undo those feelings. She wants to love Gwindor, like before his imprisonment, but felt drawn to Turin.

Getting more suitors for Finduilas will increase the chaos, but it's not a lack of Finduilas-admirers we suffer from. Gwindor loves Finduilas, Finduilas loves Turin and Turin loves nobody at this time. That's the empy space which needs to be filled, someone for Turin to love or someone to love Gwindor. Or even better: both. To maximize the anguish for loving and loved, that's the best solution. But if it failes, Galadriel can still fall in love with Turin. And let's face it, one famous elven queen or hundreds of nameless, faceless elf's loving Finduilas, what's most interesting?

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Turin did never fall in love with Finduilas, did he?

really? i was under the impretion that he did. maybe it was toward the end. but i'm pretty sure at least that they were mutally turned toward eachother. you may be right (in which case i would have to scramble for a new argument) but i'm not sure. though now that i think of it, i do seem to remember turin counciling findulias to turn back to gwindor. aaarg, to many things to keep straight! oh well that's waht make re-reading fun...

if findulias assends the throne of nargrathond, maybe turin will fall in love with her. or at least the power she represents. that would add a great deal of angstyness into our concoction: fake love vs. true love vs no love vs rabid findulias fans. turnin's love, as you said, is the missing piece of our love tetrahedron...

[Gothmog]

But if Turin loves Finduilas (or her title, doesn't matter) and she loves him, wouldn't that make them happy? Alas(always loved that word) , poor Gwindor will go alone and unhappy, but one out of three? No, that's just not good enough. We'll make everybody unhappy and suffering

Either way, I'm going to bed now. I hope my arguments so far won't be overrun during my night, I expect voting for Celeborn to increase like an avalanche

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm not sold on the arguments for either Celeborn or Orodreth.

So, for want of a better candidate, and for the reasons earlier stated, I shall vote:

++ARIEN

[Eonwe]

what's that, ariel 2, Celeborn 2?

lets make it ariel 2, cleborn 2, and orodreth 1.

++Orodreth

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

No mather who becomes queen of Nargothrond it is going to be interesting i and I realy have to see if it has an impact on Turins influence. (I hope so)


++Orodreth

[Celuien]

Vote for Celeborn!?! I think not.

++ORODRETH

[arcticstorm]

I agree with Sauce, the starlight will make an extremely romantic atmosphere
++Arien

[Alcarillo]

Without the sun, imagine how many orcs will be crawling everywhere. Turin would obviously have no place to put romance in his busy orc-killing schedule.

++Orodreth

[Anguirel]

Celeborn-2
Arien-3
Orodreth-4

Orodreth is dethroned! Results on their way.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY NINE (M-e)

Orodreth was patrolling the Guarded Plain one day when he stumbled on a cunningly constructed Orc trap laid by one of his scouts. Poisoned barbs ended his fairly lacklustre career as King of Nargothrond.

Finduilas claimed the throne, persuaded by her friends at court, but the nobles of Nargothrond were uncertain. One law dictated that the King's eldest child should succeed him; another that the oldest line should rule, which was in favour of Galadriel, as Finrod Felagund's sister. A third law, upheld in times of crisis, barred females from the throne, in which case Ereinion was the clear heir, but he was away in the west, and besides still young. Celebrimbor was proposed instead, an Elf of the most royal blood and and great skill.

Maedhros, as High King of the Noldor, was called in to decide. Maglor advised him to choose Celebrimbor, whose good character and ability he valued, and Maedhros too was about to judge Celebrimbor worthy; but Celegorm, who despised his nephew and yearned to avenge his brother Curufin, had another plan. He made a deal with Galadriel, power-hungry as ever; if she were given the crown, she would use her influence to persuade Olwe to ally with Celegorm and attack Dior. She agreed; and so Maedhros was persuaded to crown Galadriel Queen of Nargothrond, much to Finduilas's anger...

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Embittered by the utter destruction of his race, Mim betrayed Turin to the Orcs of Morgoth, but the human was too much for his captors, slaying several with his bare hands before he reclaimed his sword, killed half-a-dozen enemies in a stroke, and made his escape. It was then that he met the wretched Gwindor, who had also eluded Morgoth, and they made their way to Nargothrond. Finduilas, angry with the establishment for rejecting her claim, soon fell for the stormy, dangerous human outlaw, abandoning Gwindor; but Turin had eyes only for the Queen, Galadriel, whom he served fanatically. Celeborn was still at Olwe's side...and Galadriel was tempted, but did not yet succumb...

Contestants and challenge coming up later.

[Anguirel]

It's Day Ten in Middle-earth. The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Galadriel
Idril
Maeglin
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

Challenge the tenth: PLANNING PERMISSION. Without evicting Turin, try to stop the building of the bridge over the Narog.

Sorry this is so late. Chaotic morning.

[arcticstorm]

hmm, the moderator gives us an interesting challenge, if these were men instead of elves I would suggest Arien again, but as elves love the starlight it may only slow them down a little, but everything will still be built. We need to keep GWindor, and maybe find a way to get him more clout in the royal court, hmm, maybe if we remove Celeborn, Gwindor and the Queen will be nutually turned to eachother, that could remove the bridge building, but at the same point, it could backfire on us, if Turin and Galadriel turn to eachother.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Who runs Nargothrond if Finduilas is removed?
Without her backing would the bridge be built and/or
The Black Sword stay in Nargothrond?

[The Saucepan Man]

Could be time to evict Morwen, so that Turin heads north out of concern for his sister. That would certainly lessen his impact on startegy and planning decisions within Nargothrond.

(Sorry Lalaith. )

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Sound reasoning by SpM:

So: + + Morwen

[Gothmog]

If we evict Galadriel, would Turin leave Nargothrond? Maybe ha can't stand being around the place his loved lived when she's not around anymore? Whatever we do, to get Turin out of the place is a good idea... If he's gone, people will listen to Gwindor and the warnings of Gelmir and Arminas. Wait, that warning came to late after the bridge was built... Would a destruction of the bridge complete the task?

Anyway, how we're going to get Turin from Nargothrond with his big crush on the ruler there is a mystery to me. Therefore I nominate Galadriel as one alternative.