Password

[Pervinca Took]

Great to have another poster hooked on cryptic clues ... especially when they bring their own style of passwords to the thread.

A tentative guess of EAMBAR for 8. ER for hesitation AB for Able Seaman (I know my Arthur Ransome, even though I've never understood why AB is the abbreviation).

Perhaps there's a kind of grease called MA or AM?

(I did say it was a *tentative* guess).

On the subject of grease, HIRILONDE doesn't quite contain all of LARD. (How very daren't it).

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes came together in a grand symphony.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
6. Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's a bit pathetic, eh?
8. Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

It is only fair to note that #5 is the only pure straight clue of the lot; the rest are cryptic to one extent or another.

hS

Quoting the puzzle to get it on the current page.

I wonder if 7 might be ALE - a drink (as miruvor is) and contains most of the word 'lame' for 'a bit pathetic.'

[Huinesoron]

No to all the above. You're on the right track with your effort at #7, though!

As for #8, the boat is a red herring; it's just there so the sailor has something to grease.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

8. Eriol? (Er + oil).

3. Ainur?

7 isn't just miruvore, is it?

[Morsul the Dark]

Doubt this right but it almost fits.

6. Hobbit- Bilbo and Frodo in Mithril, Pippin was almost tossed in a well small region IE A bit.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

8. Eriol? (Er + oil).

Correct! Eriol the mariner, one of the many 'the mariner's in the Legendarium.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

3. Ainur?

7 isn't just miruvore, is it?

Sadly neither of these are right, though 'Ainur' was a deliberate red herring. There is a cryptic component to #3.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Doubt this right but it almost fits.

6. Hobbit- Bilbo and Frodo in Mithril, Pippin was almost tossed in a well small region IE A bit.

... I really like this answer, but sadly it isn't correct, or even anywhere close. It's an excellent answer, though.

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes came together in a grand symphony.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
6. Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's a bit pathetic, eh?
Eriol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

That was my concern with Ainur - that it was a straight answer.

If the symphony is a musical one, it could be the Rohirrim (the blowing of their horns) or the dwarves making music after tea at Bilbo's (can't think of any others).

I'm inclined to think it's a *metaphorical* symphony and *metaphorical* tunes, though.

Two ideas (probably both wrong):

1. Various people set out alone for Rivendell, and met and gave their accounts ('sang their tunes') at the 'great symphony' that was the Council of Elrond.

2. Many people individually shouted praise for the Ringbearers on the Field of Cormallen, and it mingled into a great symphony.

[Pervinca Took]

Could 7 be MEAD? This is more like miruvor than ale, but also contains three letters of 'lame' for 'a bit pathetic.'

[Huinesoron]

#3: Sorry, no. It may be worth ignoring the symphony part and focussing on what they were before they joined together.

#7: Still not there, but still in the right general concept. I originally planned to make the clue say 'a bit wet', but changed it at the last minute (I'm honestly not sure if this will help or hinder...).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

If the Misty Mountains curve around at some point and kind of create 2 walls, each either side of some woodland ... might that happen in EREGION?

Need to consult a map.

It could also occur in Numenor, the only other place to have mithril (unless there is any in the Uttermost West), but I don't think we're told whereabouts in Numenor it is.

[Huinesoron]

There has to be mithril in Aman, because:

A ship then new they built for him/Of mithril and of elven-glass

But in this case, 'mithril (well, almost)' is part of the cryptic side of the clue.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

You said it's the metal, not the letters in the word 'mithril' that we need, though?

There is Lothlorien, by the SILVERlode?

[Huinesoron]

I did, and 'silver' is along the right lines (but the wrong metal).

But it's not Lothlorien.

hS

PS: It may be relevant to know that I'm an analytical chemist by trade.

[Pervinca Took]

There's platinum, but AFAIK they don't have it in Middle-earth, or mithril is a sort of equivalent of it.

So ... how about a metal having one of mithril's qualities ... I think it was (or the metal made from it was) as hard as STEEL.

I wonder if we're looking for a double wall of spears or swords ... in which case it could perhaps be the GLADDEN FIELDS?

[Huinesoron]

Hmm, on researching, platinum actually seems very similar to mithril. Might be overly-malleable, though. Also not what I'm thinking of.

The only straight part of #6 is 'region of fair woodlands'. [Goes off and reads the Wikipedia article on cryptic crosswords] Also don't assume I'm aware of any regular conventions on how to make clues. ^_^

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe we're looking for 2 steel gates. (Gondolin has too many, and AFAIK no wood).

Or somewhere between the Iron Hills?

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid you're currently on the wrong landmass. I also don't think steel or iron can be considered almost like mithril - they are, after all, what it is contrasted to. They're strong, certainly, but mithril is also light - and hard to refine into metallic form.

(The first Gate of Gondolin was of wood, while the last was steel; gold comes between steel and silver, which could be a very oblique hint at mellyrn, and therefore Lothlorien... but as I've already discounted Lorien, I feel free to say that isn't the case, and Gondolin is not relevant to the solution.)

hS

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Maybe we're looking for 2 steel gates. (Gondolin has too many, and AFAIK no wood).

Or somewhere between the Iron Hills?

Those seem too literal to be "part of the cryptic side", I think.

[Nerwen]

It sounds to me as if Huey might have titanium in mind... or more likely its symbol (Ti). Maybe we should look for those letters in a place name?

[Huinesoron]

Chemical symbols are a good idea. I won't say whether Ti is the correct one to be looking at or not (yet).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe Chromium (Cr, I think). Would that throw up any possibilities, I wonder? (Not Crissaegrim; wrong land mass and mountainous, IIRC).

[Nerwen]

And the answer is not in Middle-earth proper, since Pervinca was "on the wrong landmass"?

[Pervinca Took]

I thought Hs meant different landmass since different Age (War of Wrath and all that).

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe Al for Aluminium. Maybe Al twice, with la at the end. But there are no such names.

[Huinesoron]

Not Crissaegrim, and not on the contiguous landmass that contains, at various times, Cuivienen, Nargothrond, Ost-in-Edhil, and Minas Ithil. Other continents or islands are fair game.

EDIT: Were it acceptable in the English language, the clue would have begun 'Twice gated' rather than 'walled'.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Aldalome? (Al × 2).

Oh, it's a name for Fangorn. Too big.

[Huinesoron]

I like the thought process, but no. I did, however, clue more of the word than just the metal: 'small' isn't part of the straight clue...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Nan Elmoth - sodium is squashy; so is mithril when it's mined? (Na).

Or is there a Taur-na-neldor or something, putting sodium in the middle?

[Huinesoron]

I... am currently imagining a vest of sodium chainmail. The best case scenario is that it rapidly oxidises to turn a sort of mucky white colour. The worst case scenario is that it rains, your armour melts, giving off hydrogen, and then someone lights a match.

Anyway, it's not sodium. But it is a metal that's already been mentioned (amazing though the mental images would be once you got round to plutonium and mercury...).

The straight clue is also a rough translation of the place name (though admittedly very rough).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

*Throws 'Ag' in as part of team-work.*

[Huinesoron]

I said 'not silver' in #3293 (after 'Silverlode' came up).

Metals which have been mentioned and which I have not specifically rejected:

-Fe (iron, steel - I didn't quite reject it).
-Au (gold - I mentioned it, so this could be me being sneaky).
-Ti (titanium)
-Cr (chromium)
-Hs (hassium - what, that's not what you meant? )
-Al (aluminium)

hS (but not Hs, which is radioactive and has a half-life of ten seconds; do not try and make armour out of this)

[Pervinca Took]

The YALE in the Shire? (Contains Al).

[Huinesoron]

Still the wrong landmass. This place-name does not appear on any map in LotR, and I'm nearly sure it doesn't appear on any map drawn by the Tolkiens. It does show up on at least one page of the Karen Wynn Fonstad atlas, though (and searching for the correct landmass pulls the relevant map up in the first dozen Google hits).

hS

[Galadriel55]

For #7, I'm spinning versions of SO-(Y). Pathetic = sorry and wet = soggy both have that in common. But soy sauce is not exactly in miruvor's league and I can't come up with another legible combination. Thoughts? Any drinks that have SO?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

-Fe (iron, steel - I didn't quite reject it).

As someone whose knowledge of chemistry is largely organism-based, my first reaction to this was to suggest heme iron, which is absorbed better than iron salts and causes fewer gastrointestinal side effects. To each their own textbooks.

[Pervinca Took]

6. Kortirion?

Ti + rion (small version of region).

Can't account for Kor or double gates.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

For #7, I'm spinning versions of SO-(Y). Pathetic = sorry and wet = soggy both have that in common. But soy sauce is not exactly in miruvor's league and I can't come up with another legible combination. Thoughts? Any drinks that have SO?

While I'm sure Sam would have loved some soy sauce to add to his rabbit stew, it's not that. I should not have used the term 'a bit' - like I said, I'm not always thinking about the normal conventions (due to unfamiliarity, not deliberate twisting).

As someone whose knowledge of chemistry is largely organism-based, my first reaction to this was to suggest heme iron, which is absorbed better than iron salts and causes fewer gastrointestinal side effects. To each their own textbooks.

Hissss... nassssty organisms, preciousss.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

6. Kortirion?

Ti + rion (small version of region).

Can't account for Kor or double gates.

Not Kortirion, but you're definitely in the right region!

hS

[Nerwen]

Alalminórë?

[Huinesoron]

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes grew together.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
Alalminórë - Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's pathetic, eh?
Eriol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

Alalminore it is, the Land of Elms, fairest region of Tol Eressea, based apparently on Warwickshire, and made up of Al+Al+minor(+e).

I've tweaked #3 and #7 to remove confusing language. #3 is still a fairly bad clue, but I figure a complete replacement would be impolite.

hS

[Nerwen]

For #3, perhaps SOLONELDI = the Teleri (Telerin "surf singers"), with a play on "solo"?

[Huinesoron]

That is so close, and you're right about 'solo', but there's a slightly different word I'm after. I did clue the second half, too...

hS