Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

But that is not an election as such. . . .it is more like getting a death sentence.

[Aganzir]

So? It's decided by vote and people are making campaigns for others. Election, say I.

[Aganzir]

To be useful I'm going to check Eönwë's posts. He's first because he has relatively few posts and I am lazy.

Eönwë, why did you think Shasta would be voted for a rep? What were these previous game experiences you were talking about? I'm curious.

Some jokes about phantom's excessive posting, the point of which being that no one can get a good read on him because of the number of his posts.

Originally Posted by Eönwë to Shasta

I think it would also amuse Fea to make you a WW, so that everyone will vote you as a rep and then you will vote badly (purposefully).

I fail to see where this came from (apart from "out of the blue"). What was the reason for saying that? Why would Shasta be voted for a rep? Why would Shasta vote badly on purpose if he was a wolf? What does it actually mean to "vote badly"?

Eönwë was against filibusters because "there was no need for them" and "they won't actually help anyone" since we don't know anything. Hey Fea, has the seer got a dream already, or only next night?
However, in the end Eönwë didn't vote against filibusters, asking who he is to stop them if someone wants to waste their filibuster today.

He voted Greenie (good vibes, seems innocent, similar opinions) for rep. Considered voting Nog (reasonable, talks sense) but decided against it because of Nog's time constraits. He considered also Ilya, who seemed to him innocent enough but whom he didn't think he knew well enough yet.
The bad thing with Greenie, in his opinion, was that she had voted for Brinn. For coherency's sake I ask again here the two (I think there were only two) questions I posted earlier: why wouldn't you have voted Brinn? Why did Nog look maybe too helpful? And also, why did you choose these people since as far as I remember you hadn't mentioned any of them earlier. Especially I'm curious about Ilya.

I don't know... Somehow Eönwë's comments seem to be too random, have too little to do with anything else. But most of them are not quite as bad as I remembered them to be, either. I look forward to Eönwë answering my questions and hopefully giving out more of his opinions before taking another step.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey Fea, has the seer got a dream already, or only next night?

The seer has dreamed.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Don't really understand where that phantom-Boro-Legate triangle came from. It reminds me a bit of Nerwolf's "their interaction makes me think there might be a wolf involved" in some game ages ago.

Funny, that... it reminds me of it too. But I noticed the thing they (Lommy and Shasta) are talking about too. I'll accept Boro's correction at #271:
the three of them were interacting and very "chummy", but the actually peculiar stuff was between Legate and the phantom... that is, the way they reversed their opinions of other seemed sort of staged.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ilya. Why do you think everybody seems to trust Brinn?

Because two people voted for her, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nerwen. If it was anyone but Nerwen, I could say I was a bit more inclined to consider her innocent.

Thanks, Agan, I love you too.

EDIT:x'd with Agan and A Voice from Beyond the Grave.

[Boromir88]

If somebody wants to try to convince me to vote in a certain way, they have approximately five hours to do so. After that I'm certainly off to sleep.~Aganzir

Well, right now if it was forced on me, Legate's at the top, but I have nothing set in stone...I would even say I have nothing written in pencil yet.

The thing that's worrying about Legate it seemed like a pretty grand act at the beginning. What I mean is it may have been partially Legate joking and having fun, but he was making clear in his responses why he doesn't want the phantom (he's too willful, independent...etc) as a representative. Then he goes and does the complete opposite.

The part that's worrying is just how blatant it is, it's right out in the open, for everyone to catch, which makes it look like a big act. On the other hand, since it is so out in the open, it makes Legate look rather innocent. The question is would a wolf-Legate want to be this obvious, this early in the game? Is he trying to pull a double-bluff?

And for the phantom's role in this, I'm really baffled. From what I remember, the phantom does what he thinks is best for his side winning. I don't see this as a wolf-act, because I really don't know how it would benefit a wolf-phantom? I think it would benefit a wolf-Legate more if he were to blatantly attach himself to an innocent phantom, then if the phantom was also in cahoots with Legate.

Ya, that's not really anything, more just some circular rambling.

Some others who are sparking interest...

Rune is making his presense known, now. So far I find him pretty amusing, so I guess that'd make him in the "I don't know" list, if I did have a list.

Agan is calling on her true form, that's good to see, but I will go back and look at this Lommy-Agan back-and-forth, or whatever you want to call it.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Agan's post 282

[Gil-Galad]

i am here, give me some time and i will post my thoughts.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I see I forgot to mention that also Shasta's lack of reasons for voting me contributed to his getting on my Guilty list.

Mostly that, at the time, everyone I wanted as a Rep already had two votes and everyone that had one vote was someone I didn't care to trust just yet. And I wanted to give my vote to someone who would use it responsibly, as you've shown you can do, in past games.

I'm really not liking Legate this game. (His style, I mean, not him as a person ). Maybe I'll go back and look at him today.

Also, when I said -

Originally Posted by Shasta

Hmm. Maybe it's more of an angle, with Phantom at the center.

I meant that there were some odd goings-on between Phantom and Legate, and Phantom and Boro, but not necessarily between Legate and Boro. Is that clearer at all? Because I see that's the basis of the current suspicion on me and would hate to be suspected because of a misinterpretation.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Funny, that... it reminds me of it too. But I noticed the thing they (Lommy and Shasta) are talking about too. I'll accept Boro's correction at #271:
the three of them were interacting and very "chummy", but the actually peculiar stuff was between Legate and the phantom... that is, the way they reversed their opinions of other seemed sort of staged.

This is exactly it! Thanks, Nerwen.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Part of my reason for not liking Legate:

Originally Posted by Legate

Shasta - I really, did not like some of his posts recently (around the time I voted) and I really, really, really don't like the vote for Aganzir - a kind of throwaway (in the sense: for somebody who was not around almost at all, a vote likely to disappear, while still not bringing Shasta into attention by that he wouldn't vote at all - a vote of a Wolf who is afraid to vote for a comrade, but afraid to vote for a "strong" player)? Wolf-on-wolf? Out of nowhere? vote.

"Mountain out of a molehill" much? And what do you mean by "not liking some of my posts"?

(Bias? Me? Never. )

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I also agree with this, of Boro's:

Originally Posted by Boro

I think it would benefit a wolf-Legate more if he were to blatantly attach himself to an innocent phantom, then if the phantom was also in cahoots with Legate.

because as much as it pains me to say (), Phantom is giving off a (weak) innocent vibe to me at the moment.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

However, Phantom is a Rep today. So just in case I am wrong:

++No Filibuster

because if I had a list of "Most Likely To Filibuster", you'd top it.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

So? It's decided by vote and people are making campaigns for others. Election, say I.

I guess it depends on your definition and the normal one would be that election is a process where people vote for a person (or party) fill a position. (and normally you have the option to decline the position)

When we express our preference or for a proposed resolution of an issue it is called a vote. . . . I would say choosing a lynch is a vote rather than an election.

Anyways on to more serious matters, I do think that Boro's thoughts about Legate are interesting and a worthy subject of debate.
I only regret that I have not seen more to Boro of late, I seem to have forgotten how he acts in these kind of situations.

EDIT: Cross Posted with Shasta

[Gil-Galad]

hmmm... i love this start to the game right now.

my top suspects include, in no particular order:

The Phantom
Shastanis
Ilya


Phantom - oh how i missed you so, you are bringing good thoughts to the table but also making dangerous enemies. but know that you are the only one on my list to make it to my innocent list, but just be careful what you say next day.

Shastanis - you are chatty which is good, but also bad. and i think i am going to vote for you, you know why? because your random non-consistent posts. that means you are checking this game alot, which could also mean that you are a wolf and an anxious one for that matter and popping in everytime to see what people are saying so you can launch your fiendish scheme.

Ilya - you seem to have views of others that differ with the majority, i like that but also hints at secret agenda...

now i want to vote Shastanis... but it wont mean much so i guess i will go

++Ilya for repersentative.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

hmmm... i love this start to the game right now.

my top suspects include, in no particular order:

The Phantom
Shastanis
Ilya


Phantom - oh how i missed you so, you are bringing good thoughts to the table but also making dangerous enemies. but know that you are the only one on my list to make it to my innocent list, but just be careful what you say next day.

Shastanis - you are chatty which is good, but also bad. and i think i am going to vote for you, you know why? because your random non-consistent posts. that means you are checking this game alot, which could also mean that you are a wolf and an anxious one for that matter and popping in everytime to see what people are saying so you can launch your fiendish scheme.

Ilya - you seem to have views of others that differ with the majority, i like that but also hints at secret agenda...

now i want to vote Shastanis... but it wont mean much so i guess i will go

++Ilya for repersentative.

....Question, Gil.

....Have you read the rules?

....At all?

[Gil-Galad]

of course not, in the immortal words of phantom i am going to wing it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

of course not, in the immortal words of phantom i am going to wing it.

*headdesk*

First off. The deadline for voting for representatives has already passed (like, half a day ago).

Secondly, voting a representative does not mean you're voting to lynch them. Voting a representative means you're voting for someone to vote to lynch someone else.

Thirdly, you can't vote at all today. Only representatives can vote.

Fourthly, your suspicion list makes no sense. Phantom is your "top suspect", but was the "only person to make it to your innocent list"?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Because two people voted for her, I suppose.

In my opinion that doesn't have to indicate great trust. This may sound a little sordid but I don't care much if we make mistakes in the process of catching the wolves since it's likely that every mistake will teach us something. I don't intend to vote every single day for a rep I find innocent - I might also want to see how someone reacts when given the power. There are so many of us that we can afford to let a few ordos die if it helps us to find the wolves.
However, I'd still like to hear Ilya's thoughts on the matter.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Thanks, Agan, I love you too.

I rather play it safe.

Gil, you're still visible.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

And I wanted to give my vote to someone who would use it responsibly, as you've shown you can do, in past games.

Could you give me an example of using my vote responsibly.
Of course I might be wrong but in my opinion I'm about the most irresponsible voter ever, random votes being the only thing I don't have on my sin list yet.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I meant that there were some odd goings-on between Phantom and Legate, and Phantom and Boro, but not necessarily between Legate and Boro. Is that clearer at all? Because I see that's the basis of the current suspicion on me and would hate to be suspected because of a misinterpretation.

Yeah, thank you. Based on what would you like to be suspected, then?

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

When we express our preference or for a proposed resolution of an issue it is called a vote. . . . I would say choosing a lynch is a vote rather than an election.

I don't care that much about semantics.
Especially if I'm not fully aware of those little differences.

What's with all these Legate suspicions popping up?

edit: xed with two Gils & Shastas

[A Little Green]

Hmmm... I don't know what's the use of me making lists since I'm not a rep, but I'll make one anyway just to annoy you. (And to clear my thoughts a bit, because without a list I'm bound to overlook somebody and I don't like that.)

Agan - Her case on Lommy seems somewhat fabricatied. Though I agree with her that Lommy was exaggerating when talking about our trust in Brinn, I'm not convinced that it's a good reason for suspicion. Neither do I see anything suspicious in Lommy's filibuster post. Her first post toDay looked innocentish, but the whole Lommy-thing makes me wonder.
Boro - He seems okay. Nothing that rings my alarms.
Brinn - Still innocentish and sensible; I don't regret at all choosing her as my rep.
Di - Nothing new.
Eönwë - Agan brings up good points about him. All in all he has been quite slippery and sort of overly universal or non-specific. I'd like to see more of him before forming an opinion, though.
Gil-Galad - Nothing new, sadly.
Gwathagor - I have no idea. He is securely under the reindeer still, except for that Nogrod thing which he hasn't explained yet. Maybe I'll wait for him to comment on that topic before forming any opinions on him. All in all, I'd very much like to see more of him.
Ilya - Seems very innocentish and reasonable.
Leggy - Seems innocent as well. I think his change of opinion regarding phantom looked very innocentish, though he perhaps made too big a show of it. (But then, he's been making a show of things in general in this game, so...) I can't see how would it profit a wolf to do something of that sort.
Lommy - She seems quite okay. Though I don't necessarily like the way she exaggerated my and Agan's support for Brinn, I don't think it indicates to guilt.
Kath - Her latest post baffles me. No, not because she suspects me; but because her suspicion is so strong, comes so out of the blue, and lacks a reason. I have no idea what to think of it, but it's weird.
McCaber - Under Rudolph.
morm - No read.
Nerwen - Seems more like an innocent Nerwen. Knowing her, though, it probably means she is a wolf.
Noggins - Nothing new to say about him, either. Leaning innocent.
Rune - No idea yet, but at least he's amusing.
Sally - Basic Sally. Not suspicious nor strikingly innocentish.
Shasta - I'm torn about him. Both suspicious and innocentish. The triangle thing looks quite bad on him, actually - my guess is that where Lommy referred to a phantom-Boro-Legate triangle she meant that the three interacted a lot with one another and were in the centre of attention, Shasta took it as a suspicion that the three were fellows and grasped it. Please, Shasta and/or Lommy, correct me if I've misread you; but that's how it seemed to me.
Ka - She creeps me out, don't know why.
phantie - No idea.


EDIT: x-ed since Boro

[Gil-Galad]

phantom is not my top suspect. and he is not only one on my innocent list.

BASICALLY if your not on my suspect list your on innocent list

sigh... giving me a headache already...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

phantom is not my top suspect. and he is not only one on my innocent list.

BASICALLY if your not on my suspect list your on innocent list

sigh... giving me a headache already...

Originally Posted by Gil

hmmm... i love this start to the game right now.

my top suspects include, in no particular order:

The Phantom
Shastanis
Ilya

Do I need to point out the contradiction here, or can you find it yourself? (hint: it's underlined!)

[Gil-Galad]

my top suspects include, in no particular order:

do you understand what i mean by phantom isn't my only top suspect? (Hint: it is in bold.)



oooooh i am enjoying this early fighting already.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta - I'm torn about him. Both suspicious and innocentish. The triangle thing looks quite bad on him, actually - my guess is that where Lommy referred to a phantom-Boro-Legate triangle she meant that the three interacted a lot with one another and were in the centre of attention, Shasta took it as a suspicion that the three were fellows and grasped it. Please, Shasta and/or Lommy, correct me if I've misread you; but that's how it seemed to me.

I can't speak for Lommy, but I thought the three were interacting a bit oddly with each other, but couldn't figure out how to say that until Lommy posted. I've since revised that theory, though.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

do you understand what i mean by phantom isn't my only top suspect? (Hint: it is in bold.)



oooooh i am enjoying this early fighting already.

Originally Posted by Gil

phantom is not my top suspect.

is what you said.

Before that, you said

Originally Posted by Gil

my top suspects include, in no particular order:

The Phantom
Shastanis
Ilya

I never said you said Phantom was your ONLY top suspect. You said I said you said that.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

hmmm... i love this start to the game right now.

my top suspects include, in no particular order:

The Phantom
Shastanis
Ilya


Phantom - oh how i missed you so, you are bringing good thoughts to the table but also making dangerous enemies. but know that you are the only one on my list to make it to my innocent list, but just be careful what you say next day.

Shastanis - you are chatty which is good, but also bad. and i think i am going to vote for you, you know why? because your random non-consistent posts. that means you are checking this game alot, which could also mean that you are a wolf and an anxious one for that matter and popping in everytime to see what people are saying so you can launch your fiendish scheme.

Ilya - you seem to have views of others that differ with the majority, i like that but also hints at secret agenda...

now i want to vote Shastanis... but it wont mean much so i guess i will go

++Ilya for repersentative.

Sweetie, voting for reps closed at 4am GMT. And I can see you, love. Quick! Put on the ring!


Huge, horrible headache today, and a big lack of sleep. I won't say a whole lot of consequence today, at least not until later. Sorry everyone. *goes to take a nap*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Agan

Could you give me an example of using my vote responsibly.

I didn't mean specifically your vote, I meant any kind of power at all (including power of reasoning ).

Specific example... Rikae's "Other Minds and Hands" game, where your Hunter claim caused me no end of headache.

Originally Posted by Agan

On what basis would you like to be suspected, then?

My charm and flair for the dramatic, of course!

[Gil-Galad]

Fourthly, your suspicion list makes no sense. Phantom is your "top suspect", but was the "only person to make it to your innocent list"?

you said i said Phantom was my top suspect, then i said i didn't say that, that i said he is one of my top suspects. and i even said in no particular order.

and i mean "only person to make it to your innocent list" by that he is the only suspect that may redeem himself by what he says, thus i am unclear about him right now on what he is.

my my you are really defensive for a wolf.

[A Little Green]

I'm glad Gil appeared (Hello!) - even though he seems quite a bit confused and self-contradicting. Shasta looks more innocentish after his newest posts - thanks for clearing the triangle thing up. I feel somewhat better about Agan as well.

Oh, I'm glad I don't have to vote. It would be far too difficult.


EDIT: x-ed with Shasta, Sally, Shasta and Gil

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

you said i said Phantom was my top suspect, then i said i didn't say that, that i said he is one of my top suspects. and i even said in no particular order.

and i mean "only person to make it to your innocent list" by that he is the only suspect that may redeem himself by what he says, thus i am unclear about him right now on what he is.

my my you are really defensive for a wolf.

Well I'm not going to continue sparring with you if you insult me like that. Pity, I missed it too.

[satansaloser2005]

P.S. I just read the rest of Gil's post(s). Is it just me or does he make even less sense than Phantom? (And of course I mean that in the nicest way)



Oh, and

++No fillibuster

Not that we should have to worry about it toDay, but still.

[Gil-Galad]

i was just defending myself from being called a further idiot...

and yes i admit i messed up with the voting, my bad.

i had a feeling this was going to be a bad idea... maybe i should just step out of the game now before it becomes too late.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

i was just defending myself from being called a further idiot...

and yes i admit i messed up with the voting, my bad.

i had a feeling this was going to be a bad idea... maybe i should just step out of the game now before it becomes too late.

Don't step out! Just make sure to read the rules.

Edit: And I never called you an idiot...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

you said i said Phantom was my top suspect, then i said i didn't say that, that i said he is one of my top suspects. and i even said in no particular order.

and i mean "only person to make it to your innocent list" by that he is the only suspect that may redeem himself by what he says, thus i am unclear about him right now on what he is.

my my you are really defensive for a wolf.

Nope. It's not just me. That's decidedly odd.


*crashes for an hour or two*

And how does being confused by your post make Shasta a wolf? Or defensive?


EDIT: x'd with Shasta

EDIT again: Don't worry about the voting thing, Gil. Happens to the best of us. Just go give the admin thread a quick scan and you should be fine. After all, this isn't a typical game, so it's hard to keep up with what's going on.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Agan - Her case on Lommy seems somewhat fabricatied. Though I agree with her that Lommy was exaggerating when talking about our trust in Brinn, I'm not convinced that it's a good reason for suspicion. Neither do I see anything suspicious in Lommy's filibuster post. Her first post toDay looked innocentish, but the whole Lommy-thing makes me wonder.

What case? Where?
It was a list.

It was only Lommy's response to my earlier accusations which actually made me suspect her - earlier she sounded just a bit suspicious, a bit weird, such. But her response seemed somehow... evasive. Trying not to defend herself too hard. Babbling random things about wolf-hunting. Trying not to look like a wolf who's defending herself. That's the impression I got.

And when Lommy gets home she will scream and jump up and down and wonder how I can be so annoying as to suspect her every time we play together.

Shasta and Gil, you're amusing me an awful lot.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Specific example... Rikae's "Other Minds and Hands" game, where your Hunter claim caused me no end of headache.

Gosh it was my second game! I haven't done anything like that ever since!

edit: xed since the Shasta I quoted

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Don't step out! Just make sure to read the rules.

Edit: And I never called you an idiot...

i have never read the rules in any WW game,like i said i just wing it and learn from my mistakes.

the last thing i want is to insult people, and if i am inadvertently doing that and i don't realize it, then i must excuse myself from the rest of the game.

EDIT: the whole "its underlined" part makes me feel like you are calling me an idiot and thats what made me go more defensive, so to say.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Agan

Gosh it was my second game! I haven't done anything like that ever since!

It was my first game! It left an impression!

Originally Posted by Gil

it was the whole "it's underlined" part

I was only pointing out the contradiction. I apologize if I made it seem like I was insulting your intelligence.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I was only pointing out the contradiction. I apologize if I made it seem like I was insulting your intelligence.

more of a slap in the face then anything. but i am willing to forgive and forget

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What do you say, should we move on from the "have Gil read the rules discution" because I dont see that we will gain anythinge else than a high post count from it.

Anyways I read through Greenie's post and what she said about Kath, that made me go and read what Kath had said. . .because my short term memory is not working at the moment.
After looking at it I arrived at the conclution that Kath belongs on my shortlist of people I might vote for, it seems like the kind of post you would only write if it was true. I have often tried to read through a lot of posts and ended up with the conclusion that someone seemed wolfish without being able to say why. . .
Of course we cannot act on gut-feeling alone, but Kath speaks planely in a language the people can understand, she seems honest and straight to the point.

If she keeps it up I see no reason why I would not vote for her. (For Representative that is)

[Nerwen]

*applauds*

I'm thoroughly enjoying the Gil-Shasta double-act. Pure comedy gold.

EDIT" x'd with Rune.

[A Little Green]

Agan - thanks for clearing the Lommy thing up, it makes more sense now. The response doesn't look like the most innocent Lommy, though I still don't go so far as to suspect her because of that.

The Shasta-Gil-affair is quite weird, like arguing about nothing in particular. Relax, guys.


EDIT: x-ed with Runne and Nerwen