The Silmarillion Survivor

[The Saucepan Man]

That may be the Curufin of your imagination, Anguirel. But the Curufin of the book (and, from what I have seen, the show) looks pretty dull to me.

Any particular reason why this day is to last 17 hours ...?

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I'm now left with the choice of being either vindictive or teacher's pet.

Since most people have tended to come down on the side of teacher's pet up 'til now (remember the attempt to oust Morgoth?), it only seems fair to me to seek to redress the balance.

[Anguirel]

Oh, Saucie, Saucie, you haven't been reading between the right lines!

Yes, remember the attempt to oust Morgoth. Quite. When Saucie attempted to remove the main source of controversy and tragedy. Now he's after a smaller, but more interesting, fish.

Curufin (and Celegorm, and even Maedhros) cause strife within the side of good. Moral ambiguity. Elf against Elf. Kinslaying. So much more intriguing that heroes massacring Orcs, because it's true. It's life. It's history.

Man, or Elf, must perforce prey upon man, or Elf, like monsters of the deep, to paraphrase the Duke of Albany.

Reject Saucie's vision. It's really very twee. A happy land with hobbits breeding like rabbits and Elves living in peace and harmony. And poor old me, cheesed off and thrust into the Void...

As for the implication that I'm fiddling the times, it is quite honestly balderdash. I was occupied last night and so posted the challenge early. Days always end at seven-ish in the evening or morning; as I'd set the challenge early it's to be the evening...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Ang

Oh, Saucie, Saucie, you haven't been reading between the right lines!

I am not reading between any lines. I am writing my own.

Originally Posted by Ang

Reject Saucie's vision. It's really very twee. A happy land with hobbits breeding like rabbits and Elves living in peace and harmony. And poor old me, cheesed off and thrust into the Void...

There speaks the man who completely "de-stressed" the entire Aredhel - Eol - Maedhros - Idris thing. Talk about bringing peace and harmony where once there was strife ...

Au contraire, Ang old chap. I like dischord, disharmony and tragedy. But there are more than enough contestents left who are fully capable of bringing this about. It's the Silmarillion, after all, not Wind in the Willows. Curufin ain't gonna be missed on that count.

Originally Posted by Ang

As for the implication that I'm fiddling the times ...

Implication? Now who's reading between the lines? I was merely enquiring ...

[Anguirel]

Slander! Eol-Aredhel-Idril-Maeglin was restressed in the last installment. Eol suicided, Aredhel died of grief, Idril is disgusted by Maeglin, and Maeglin is a cool Iron Mask killing machine...

Anyway, votes:

Curufin-3
Thingol-3

By the way, a day is usually 7:30am to 7:30am-to wit, 24 hours long. So this Day is actually unusually short. Unless I've mangled the maths...

Incidentally, rereading this post it sounds like I've closed voting. I haven't. It'll close at 7:30pm. Three and a half hours to save poor maligned Curu...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Upon reflection, and going with the theme of (at least later in
his Middle-earth life) unlikable, it has to be

+ + Thingol

[The Saucepan Man]

Doh!

Here's a little something for you to bring Anguirel tomorrow, Tuor.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

I actually didn't notice that it was a tie when voting,
but it must be said that Curufin seems to have more
lives then the cats of Queen Beruthiel.

[Gothmog]

Now Lalaith has her chance to vote! Come on, you know what you want! Ang has won nearly everything this far and his criminal protégé has been left alone for too long now! If we get both Thingol and Curufin thrown off from the game, Turin will surely suffer... Double effect

And who ever votes for Curufin will get an apple from me!

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, after a careful review of my options and weighing the pros and cons of each removing either Curufin or Thingol, my vote goes to:

++ Thingol

Removing Thingol will eliminate Turin's father figure. There is also a high likelyhood that Melian will pack her bags and leave for Valinor, now that her precious Sindarin loverboy is gone, leaving Doriath open to attack by all kinds of unsavory creatures (like Orcs and the Sons of Feanor). Angst, angst, angst, for poor Turin!

[Anguirel]

It's seven minutes till closing time now, and though I was going to round up early, I'll give anti-Curufinists the remaining minutes and perhaps ten or fifteen extra to garner votes-to show I'm not manipulating the times. In truth, I'm far too chaotic to do so.

For now-

Curufin-3
Thingol-5

EDIT: Voting closed now. Sorry to thwart you Saucie; it was a close run thing and I'm sure your time will come...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY SIX (M-e)

On the day of Midwinter, Elwe Singollo, called Elu Thingol, King of Doriath, went missing.

His brother, Olwe, was not too worried. "He's done it again. Probably chasing pretty Maia."

And though Melian seemed concerned, most ascribed this to irritation at Olwe's tactlessness.

Yet the weeks passed, and Thingol did not return.

***

In Ossiriand, Curufin was indulging in a spot of brief hunting with Celegorm. After they'd caught a stag, the brothers intended to settle to a bit of scheming. The day passed pleasantly; Curufin never knew how close he had been to vanishing together with Thingol Greycloak...

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

At last, it became clear that Thingol was lost. Again. There was instant pandemonium in the court of Menegroth.

Olwe insisted that his brother would return, but offered to take up the kingship in the interim. With the backing of Celeborn and Galadriel, he seemed certain to gain the throne.

But Melian defied him. She declared that Thingol would never return, and that without her guidance Doriath was doomed. She claimed the throne, and set up her court in Menegroth itself. Mablung and Beleg supported her.

And there was a third contender now. Beren and Luthien, in right of their son Dior, now a young man, claimed the throne; and they were welcomed by the folk of Brethil, and ruled over the west of Doriath. Thus Olwe ruled in the North, at the Court of the Old King; Melian in the centre and South, at the Court of the Queen; and Dior, aided by Beren and Luthien, at the Court of the Young King in Brethil and the western forest. And Luthien wore the Silmaril. But only the Queen's Court was now protected by the Girdle.

So it was that Morwen had to decide which Doriath to send her son to. The north, ruled by Olwe, where the old Telerin laws prevailed? The Sindarin centre, ruled by Melian? Or the human and Elven realm of Dior Half-Elven? Olwe was closest; and Dior made sense because he was himself a Man. But in what Morwen heard of Melian, she recognised something of herself. And so Turin, with the help of Beleg and Mablung, was escorted into Melian's realm.

It was the safest place in Beleriand; and to a young Man this was infuriating. Olwe's realm was regularly attacked by Morgoth, and only Galadriel's power allowed it to survive. Dior's realm was always warring with the Dwarves of Nogrod and with Celegorm and Curufin, especially after the deaths of Beren and Luthien. Yet in Melian's realm all was still.

Infuriatingly still. Beleg Cuthalion felt it too; and one night, he escaped with the youth. Together they made their way to the human lands...Turin taking with him the sword Anglachel...

It's Day Seven in Middle-earth...the contestants...

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Curufin
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung
Beleg

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir
Forweg
Androg

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

The last two Men, you should note, are I think only in Unfinished Tales. They're the leaders of the Gaurwaith Turin joins soon. Androg is among my favourite Men. A sort of human Curufin, hee hee...now I'll watch him get voted out. I'll remove them if people would rather I stuck to the Silmarillion proper.

Now-the seventh challenge-TURIN HOOD and LITTLE BELEG. Assist Turin's career as an outlaw!

[Lalaith]

Sorry 'bout that everyone, got tied up in RL....

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Assist Turin's career as an outlaw!

To be a good outlaw, Turin needs notoriety. To allow him to be truly notorious, we must eliminate any serious competitors for the title.

Now, let's see. Who else is likely to be stealing some of the notoriety that Turin richly deserves? Perhaps one who might be described thus:

Originally Posted by Ang

He's cunning. He's a superb stage/screen villain of the old tradition.

Originally Posted by Ang

Remember Errol Flynn's ouevre, or even The Mask of Zorro? Remember the tradition of the cool, caustic, calculating aristocrat, second to none with the rapier (except the film's hero, naturally), equipped with by far the best one liners, with the cut-glass-posh English accent?

Hmm. I wonder who fits that description? Perhaps further investigation will assist ...

Originally Posted by Ang

But Curufin is more than that. Curufin is the Talented Mr Ripley. Curufin the Crafty, Curufin who defied Elf mores to entrap Nargothrond in his cautious power-hungry speeches, Curufin who dared to carry off Little Miss Prissy-I-Can-Defeat-The-Forces-Of-Evil-By-Singing Luthien. Curufin is the mastermind, the wit ...

Ah yes! Curufin, of course.

How can Turin be a truly successful outlaw when this Curufin chappie is stealing all his limelight?

++CURUFIN

[The 1,000 Reader]

Sorry for being immature, but Curufin is an stuck-up ***hole and I doubt Ang was playing fairly in the final stretch. Don't send me any rep, this is just my opinion.

++Curufin.

[Eonwe]

hee-hee! come one, come all, join on our merry bandwagon!

++Curufin

i've always hated this guy. it's nice to be able to sit back and let SpM reason it out, in true bandwagon fasion!

[The 1,000 Reader]

Amen to that. I don't care if Curufin would have made a new set of Silmarils, he is still a twisted monster who, if I am not mistaken, tried to kill Luthien, and in an underhanded manner at that.

Hop on the bandwagon downers, or else Morgoth will place a curse on you.

Send off Curufin=one pure evil snob less. Send off someone else= Ang ranting about how "great and wonderful" Curufin is.

Vote for Curufin!

[arcticstorm]

In order to be a successful outlaw leader, he needs to have less competition for the positionm, I say we vote off one of their leaders,
++Androg

[Gothmog]

Oh, guess what I'm going to vote

If a villain like Curufin is removed, the outlaws will look up to Turin more and he will be the father figure of all thiefs, murderers and bandits in ME. That sounds terrific, doesn't it? People who thought of him as nothing else than a faint copy of the worst scoundrel ever (you know who) will come and join the glorious Turin King of Thiefs, Turin the Bloody, Turin the Cruel. What a reputation!

Besides, as soon as he comes near an innocent, they will give him all he wants. He won't have to kill poor peasants or slay villagers, the rumour will do the work. To remove the only threat to this greatness, a notorious villain who's been defended this far by his qualities as badguy, is the inly possible choice. Therefor:

++Curufin

[Anguirel]

Hmmm. Well, at least you're all giving Curufin his due. And you're taking him down with my reasoning, which I find amusing...

I would suggest an alternative, though, ++FORWEG-the Narn in Unfinished Tales portrays him as a thoroughly bad lot, a deserter, coward, and rapist, and as leader of the Gaurwaith, his removal will have far more actual effect on Turin's career...Curufin may be notorious, but he's also completely outside Turin's sphere of influence.

Curufin-4
Androg-1
Forweg-1

Voting will close at 7:30 pm...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Well, it seems that there's a bit of Margaret Thatcher in Melian.
If she can only weaken Morgoth's Orc unions she could rule
all of Beleriand!!!

As for this challenge:

+ + Curufin

[Anguirel]

Oh dear, oh dear. An hour and six minutes to go, and Curufin seems doomed...ah well. 'Twas good while it lasted. Vote Forweg if you have pity!

[Lalaith]

I've been away all day so I've missed out all the bandwaggoning fun. I think it's best I stay out of this vendetta, as my vote will make no difference anyway. I'll abstain again today. I hope we can all be cheerful again tomorrow. Especially poor Ang.

[Anguirel]

Voting closed.

Curufin-5
Androg-1
Forweg-1

Curufin is expelled. Results will be following in about an hour, most likely...

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY SEVEN (M-e)

Celegorm and Curufin's alliance with Nogrod was of increasing profit to them. Dior could not hold his lands, and Brethil shrunk daily, the woods at its borders ravaged and burnt.

But one evening, Curufin, conducting a raid too deep into Dior's realm, was separated from his brother and cornered by the Peredhil's army. Dior, the Silmaril on his brow, leapt from his horse to fight the Son of Feanor, but Curufin's skill was superior by far, and the King of Brethil was disarmed. Curufin held him to the ground, his blade at the King's neck. He raised it. "You are spared, adan peasant," he remarked, coolly taking up the Silmaril...

Such agony coursed through his body. His hand was skalded. But he would not let go, not even when he was ringed with white fire, writhing in pain. So died Curufin, called the Crafty, fourth Son of Feanor, with a cold smile on his face.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Beleg and Turin found themselves in a village where the folk cowered in fear of a band of deadly outlaws called the Gaurwaith.

"Wolf-men?" Beleg remarked. "I know this game. Who's handing out roles?"

"I am," said a hooded figure who looked vaguely familiar. "The players are Turin-"

"Neithan!" Turin pointed out.

"Alright, Neithan, Beleg, Forweg, Androg, Ulrad, various villagers, Feanor of the Peredhil and Sauron."

"Sauron looks innocent to me," said Turin. "Let's kill Feanor of the Peredhil! She doesn't exist anyway!"

"Fine by me," said Forweg. But she was innocent. That night, the wolves killed Ulrad, the Seer.

"Sauron and Androg are definitely innocent," opined Turin. "Let's lynch Beleg." And it was done. When he discovered that Beleg, his friend, was in fact the Ranger, Turin went into a black rage and killed everyone in the village except Sauron, who flew off as a bat, and Androg and Forweg, who he thought looked trustworthy. Annoyed that he still hadn't found any wolves, Turin gave up and joined the Gaurwaith.

"Neithan was the Cursed Villager," the phantom explained...

The Gaurwaith, led by Forweg, had a successful career plundering Orc and Man alike, and Turin/Neithan, armed with his Black Sword, became known as a deadly warrior...one day, seeing Forweg in mid-rape, he sliced off the man's head and became Captain of the Gaurwaith himself...

It's Day Eight in Middle-earth...the contestants...

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Ereinion
Idril
Maeglin
Orodreth
Finduilas
Gwindor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Telchar of Nogrod (incidentally, probably by now a different character. But with the same name. Like Durin the Deathless...)
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Dior
Hurin
Tuor
Morwen
Turin
Nienor
Brandir
Androg

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Sauron
Glaurung
Ancalagon (adolescent...)
Morgoth, Curse of

Task eight: CONSERVATION. Stop the impending extinction of the endangered Petty-Dwarves...

[arcticstorm]

I'd say we have three possibilities to survive this challenge,
first, I believe Mim to be indirectly responsible for his sons death, he was their leader, and if they did not have him they may not have been out that way, however this is a big maybe.
Second, the whole incident with Mim may have been brought on by the curse of Morgoth against Turin, no Curse, no running into the dwarves, no shooting, no death of Mim's son
Third, unless I am mistaken Androg is the one who shot Mim's son. If we get rid of him, no worries. But I am not sure about this, so I do not know who I will vote for, but I am leaning towards Mim.

[mormegil]

Well unless petty-dwarf women are created from rocks I find the procreation prospects of three male petty dwarves as rather grim but I've heard that cycles of the moon are what keep petty dwarves "in-balance" if you take my meaning so I will get rid of

++Tilion

and hope that the moon removal will help out.

[Alcarillo]

++Androg

Originally Posted by Androg, on Mim

'It is an Orc, or of Orc-kin. Kill it!'

Originally Posted by Androg, again

'You need grow no older,' said Androg, stepping up with a knife in his unharmed hand. 'I can spare you that.'

And so on. Obvoiusly, Androg is the greatest threat facing the existence of the Petty-Dwarves. He would kill them all if he had the chance, and we can't let that chance come! Vote for Androg!

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Androg.

(Ah, Ang had to get in one overly done and gag-inducing post. Ah well, at least Curufin's gone. and at heart, I know that Dior killed Curufin in the books.)

[Anguirel]

Today will have to end early or late, as I'm going to the opera tonight. Tell me which you'd prefer, please, viewers...

Now. Androg seems like a good short term solution, as Alcarillo pointed out. Hurin would be another option; it is he who finishes Mim. But, as mormegil declared, we need to somehow find a way to stimulate Petty-Dwarf procreation!

mormegil's proposition of removing the negative influence of lunar patterns is...utterly...bizarre...and for that reason, I like it.

++TILION

Oh, and 1000 reader, Curufin was, incidentally, killed with Caranthir by nameless Elves of Doriath. Celegorm and Dior slew each other.

[Lalaith]

I too was quite baffled by this challenge, the biological obstacles seemed insurmountable. I'm not convinced that Morm's crazy scheme will work but hey, it's worth a go.
++TILION

Oh, by the by, I just re-read the Mim bit in Unfinished Tales in an (unsuccessful) attempt to come up with a breed preservation programme, I'd forgotten the bit about mysterious roots in the sack - do you think they were potatoes?

Have fun at the opera, Ang....what are you seeing?

[Anguirel]

Don Carlo. Rather a Maeglin character, I suppose, if we scrabble for a parallel...I saw the Schiller play Don Carlos a while back, very Germanic and serious-minded but majestic...I expect Verdi's take will be a bit different...

Votes:

Tilion-3
Androg-2

[Celuien]

Morm's plan seems completely off-the-wall. But somehow, it's appealing. Plus, there's new research available to prove that petty-dwarf women are indistinguishable from males by moonlight, even to the sight of other petty-dwarves, but that the special glint of their eyes behind their beards can been seen by all in starlight. Therefore, if Tilion is removed, Mim and company should have an easier time with their...search. And hopefully, their quest will take them far from the vicinity of Androg's bow.

++TILION

Enjoy the opera!

[Thinlómien]

++ANDROG. He is an idiot. I can't understand what have you got against Tilion; he's a nice guy.

Those not already voted: Vote for Androg! He is a nasty guy, who wants to kill everybody without reasons. He is irritating. See Alcarillo's quotations.

[Gothmog]

I'm absolutely no big fan of Androg. His a stuck-up, trigger happy maniac. No, the world would be better without him and the Petty-Dwarfes would certainly be helped by the removal of him. But the fact that this is just a short term solution stands. We need to insure that there are dwarf women around for the lonely boys in Amon Rudh. To remove Tilion is a long shot, but worth a try. I don't see much of an option here, as the situation is somewhat desperate.

++Tilion

And send some sort of curse on Androg when your at it, Ang!

[Anguirel]

Votes-

Tilion-5
Androg-3

Any thoughts on whether voting should close late or early?

[arcticstorm]

I will go with one of my original gut influences and ++Androg

[Anguirel]

Actually, I can't count 1,000 reader's vote-it breaks the rule I laid out at the beginning about including at least some reasoning. The tally remains the same for the time being-

Tilon-5
Androg-3

I say again: early or late?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Wow! That Tilion idea is so crazy it just might work!
Ah, well, probably not. And Androg's absence (together with
Curufin's) would immeasureably improve the moral character of
Beleriand residents, so:
+ + Androg .

[Anguirel]

Lord! We need some more Moon-haters!

Tilion-5
Androg-4 (potentially 5 if 1000 reader kindly provides some reasoning)

I like being on morm's side. It makes a change. I wonder if Saucie will swallow our recent feuding and take up the, er, unorthodox cause?

I've decided that the voting will close late. Expect a write-up at about 10:30 am GMT tomorrow...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I wonder if Saucie will swallow our recent feuding and take up the, er, unorthodox cause?

But I can't vote with you, Ang. I'd have to award myself the apple!

Actually, I am content with the removal of Curufin - for the time being. But I do feel that the "short-term" solution is the better one here. Androg was responsible for more petty-dwarf deaths than anyone else I can think of. Remove him and we give them a better chance of finding suitable - er - partners (wherever they may be). Besides, if I vote for Androg, we may achieve a tie, which (assuming morm's crazy theory works) is best for them all round.

++Androg