Walk To Rivendell" aka "The Eowyn Challenge"

[Niluial]

Hey!
I injured myself today in ice-skating [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]. But it is fine about two days rest then I can maybe walk again. I am just a little confused where does everyone find the things umm e.g. I walked two miles I reached Frodos first camp site... how do you know that???

[Lyra Greenleaf]

If you go to the BD website home page, look under Fun and Games, on the left side, and you'll see walk to rivendell. enter your mileage and it shows you where you are. Isn't the BW good to us?

[Vardamar]

As a sure sign that I am feeling better, I grabbed my running shoes and went for a five mile run today. It was 30*C, or 80*F sunny with a slight breeze. I am now camping in the Bonfire Glade (78miles), and the trees seem to be talking to one another, quite creepy if you ask me.

[ April 27, 2003: Message edited by: Vardamar ]

[mark12_30]

Nurumaiel,

Hobbits and elves are both good at math. (Even Sam, who is really adept at estimating food supplies and the phases of the moon.) Just divide it out. 458 miles divided by (number of weeks left til Dec 17). To me that looks like roughly 33 weeks or so which would be 458/33 = 13.88, or call it fourteen miles per week: that's two miles per day every day.

My tactic is to do more than that daily (I do 3 or 4 or more) so that when I need a rest I can have one. I took this weekend off as my knees were starting to complain a little too much. Tomorrow morning, it's back to Mount Tom (Bombadil??) and the Troll Trail again!

[ April 27, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Live from the Green Hill Country:

Sophia the Thunder Mistress turns and waves good-bye to the Water Valley, just like Frodo did. The difference being that unlike Frodo, Sophia's waving Goodbye and Good-riddance and she's itching to get out of the Shire... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Reporting for Barrowdowns News at the 42 mile marker: Your friendly neighborhood Thunder Mistress

[Nurumaiel]

*slaps forehead*

Well.... Thank you, mark12_30! I should have thought of figuring it out myself. Why didn't I? It's quite obvious. They figure it out, why can't I figure it out... why can't I even think of figuring it out. *mumbles something nearly inaudible about reading too many Miss Marples and sitting backstage for hours the day before so that's why her brain is so fried* [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

It's 20 miles now. Fortunately I don't have to sit backstage for hours again until later in the afternoon, so that means I'll get at the very least 2 miles done tomorrow.

26 miles to the next landmark...

[peony_foxburr]

Peony is so pleased at reaching Stock (52 miles) that she stops in at the Golden Perch and has a beer, which helps her forget her sore muscles and walk 2 more miles...Can't wait for the delicious mushrooms at Farmer Maggot's place!

She sings along with whatever is playing on her elven-gifted ai-podas she walks. This could be anything from the Beatles to The Sacred Harp, so she only hums when there are ear-witnesses.

[peony_foxburr]

Concerning walking (and other)songs...I had another idea about "discovering" tunes that fit some of the songs Tolkien composed. It has to do with the meter of the poetry--the number of syllables per line, basically. An example to illustrate:
The / road / goes / e / ver / on / and / on
Down / from / the / door / where / it / be / gan;
Now / far / a / head / the / road / has / gone
And / I / must / fol / low / if / I / can.

There are eight syllables per line x 4 lines= 88.88, also called Long Meter.
If you are someone with access to a hymnal that has a "metrical index" you can discover tunes which fit the words above. Probably best to use less well known tunes, to avoid unintentional humor! ("I'm Sorry, I Haven't a Clue" on BBC has a hysterical routine called "One Song to the Tune of Another," e.g. "My Old Man's a Dustman" sung to the tune of "Heartbreak Hotel.")

There is also an online resource at The Cyber Hymnal with MIDI files, metrical indices, etc.

I have only classified the following by meter so far. See appendices to ROTK for reference to page numbers.

Common Meter: (86.86)
"In western lands"
"I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold"
"I sit beside the fire and think"

Long Meter: (88.88)
Song of Berien and Luthien
"Snow-white, snow white, O Lady clear"
"Farewell we call to hearth and hall"
Frodo's Lament for Gandalf

My resource is the Hymnal 1982 of the Episcopal Church USA, and some of the tunes for Common Meter I've tried out include "Forest Green," "Kingsfold," Noel," and "The Third Tune." For Long Meter: "Dunedin," "Deo Gracias," "St Patrick's Breastplate," "When Jesus Wept" and "Danby."
[/URL]The Cyber Hymnal

[mark12_30]

Peony, that's GREAT! If you go to Tunes By Meter they have wierd meters by the numbers. I've often put celtic tunes to LOTR songs (there's a thread about that somewhere) and I have a list; but the Old Walking Song stumped me totally because it's WIERD meter. 8 8 8 8 8 8 6 6 6 6. Very wierd. Celtic songs don't do that particular kind of wierd that I've been able to find. But-- there are tunes for wierd meters there. I'm going looking!


EDIT

Y'know, he fooled me. Tolkien and his rythms!! It's 8888888888, and on some of it he just leaves out some syllables. But Frodo's final "coda" or whatever yo ucall it that he sings in The Grey Havens chapter, is 888888.

How's a hiker sposedta put it all together?
Frodo's last verse:

Still round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate,
And though I oft have passed them by,
A day will come at last when I
Shall take the hidden paths that run
West of the Moon, East of the Sun.

Old Walking Song

Upon the hearth the fire is red,
Beneath the roof there is a bed;
But not yet weary are our feet,
Still round the corner we may meet
A sudden tree or standing stone
That none have seen but we alone.
Tree and flower, leaf and grass,
Let them pass! Let them pass!
Hill and water under sky,
Pass them by! Pass them by!

Still round the corner there may wait
A new road or a secret gate,
And though we pass them by today,
Tomorrow we may come this way
And take the hidden paths that run
Towards the Moon or to the Sun.
Apple, thorn, and nut and sloe,
Let them go! Let them go!
Sand and stone and pool and dell,
Fare you well! Fare you well!

Home is behind, the world ahead,
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadows to the edge of night,
Until the stars are all alight.
Then world behind and home ahead,
We'll wander back to home and bed.
Mist and twilight, cloud and shade,
Away shall fade! Away shall fade!
Fire and lamp and meat and bread,
And then to bed! And then to bed!



[ April 28, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Schmendrick]

Well, I'm still stuck in the Green Hill Country!!(Will I ever get out of there?)Actually the only reason I wanted to post here, was to show off my new avatar! It's the first time my avatar actually works!!! I'm so happy! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Ah, I wondered what all those numbers were about, it's how many syllables are in each line, correct? That would be a great help setting poems to music.

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

Well, I'm still stuck in the Green Hill Country!!(Will I ever get out of there?)

Schmendrick: It sure seems like that when you're there, but you've only got 1 more mile to go before you get to Woody End!! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

I'm just a few miles outside of Stock, but I will make it to Bucklebury Ferry by the end of the week.

--------------------
...but a lane branched right, winding through a wood of ancient oak-trees on its way to Woodhall. 'That is the way for us,' said Frodo.

Not far from the road-meeting they came on the huge hulk of a tree: it was still alive and had leaves on the small branches that it had put out around the broken stumps of its long-fallen limbs; but it was hollow, and could be entered by a great crack on the side away from the road. The hobbits crept inside, and sat there upon a floor of old leaves and decayed wood. They rested and had a light meal, talking quietly and listening from time to time.

Twilight was about them as they crept back to the lane. The West wind was sighing in the branches. Leaves were whispering. Soon the road began to fall gently but steadily into the dusk. A star came out above the trees in the darkening East before them. They went abreast and in step, to keep up their spirits. After a time, as the stars grew thicker and brighter, the feeling of disquiet left them, and they no longer listened for the sound of hoofs. They began to hum softly, as hobbits have a way of doing as they walk along, especially when they are drawing near to home at night. With most hobbits it is a supper-song or a bed-song; but these hobbits hummed a walking-song (though not, of course, without any mention of supper and bed).

[Salix]

This snow here is finally going down a bit. On Saturday, it got to be a foot and a half deep! The snow has been melting, so hopefully I'll be able to start walking again very soon. Tomorrow isn't happening cause my sibling is having her birthday tomorrow.

[LINZIELF]

[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] is anybody else looking around where they live and trying to find places that almost match where they are on their journey
?my little hobbit and I spend ages poring over our maps working out where to go for our walks that seem the best. We've got the ruins of a castle lined up for Weathertop and have already crossed the Brandywine River (ok the harbour entrance) on our own Buckleberry Ferry aka The Bramble Bush Bay floating bridge ferry! We are actually going to walk on the Barrow Downs in the appropriate place! Don't quite know what we'll do for the Midgewater Marshes though!

He loved maps, and in his hall there hung a large one of the Country Round with all his favourite walks marked on it in red ink.

[Schmendrick]

LINZIELF: You have a quote from R.E.M in your signature!? I love it (well, both the quote AND R.E.M, actually!)

Other news: I made it to the Woody End finally!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[LINZIELF]

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Thank you Schmendrick [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] It's my favourite R.E.M track and I just think it's very apt for The Lord Of The Rings and it's my outlook on life.

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

It's taken me considerably longer to get here than it did Frodo & company, but Bucklebury Ferry is only 5 more miles. I think I'll stop for lunch tomorrow at Farmer Maggot's...I'm in the mood for mushrooms. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

--------------------
They went on for perhaps another couple of miles. Then the sun gleamed out of ragged clouds again and the rain lessened. It was now past mid-day, and they felt it was high time for lunch. They halted under an elm tree: its leaves though fast turning yellow were still thick, and the ground at its feet was fairly dry and sheltered. When they came to make their meal, they found that the Elves had filled their bottles with a clear drink, pale golden in colour: it had the scent of a honey made of many flowers, and was wonderfully refreshing. Very soon they were laughing, and snapping their fingers at rain, and at Black Riders. The last few miles, they felt, would soon be behind them.

[Raefindel]

Ring-a-dong-dillo! That was a good meal and a good night's rest but the music here is making me crazy! I'm outta here!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Hello LINZIELF and Raefindel! Looks like old Tom has a houseful today!

The idea of matching where you are on the journey to the landscape you are walking through is wonderful. I only wish I had more diverse surroundings. How are going to find the Barrow Downs? Is it far away LINZIELF?

[Lalaith]

Well, I'm in the Old Forest.
My recent walks IRL have taken me through terrain as lovely as anything Middle Earth has to offer, as my hobbits crossed the Brandywine I trekked alongside the beautiful lake of Ullswater. And my holiday home had the most splendid bath you ever saw, Cricklehollow would have been hard-pressed to better it. Back home now, sadly with very little walking terrain around me to help conjure up the Old Forest. Maybe just as well, mind you.
Congratulations to those hardy walkers who have already reached Tom!

[ April 30, 2003: Message edited by: Lalaith ]

[LINZIELF]

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
The Barrow Downs are in the lovely Purbeck Hills in the Dorset countryside of England - not too far away? and it's lovely and high nearly 700 feet above (the ever present) sea level.
Tom Bombadil's house is so full of good company and songs that it will be hard to leave but Rivendell calls....
For an elf I sure have some Hobbity tendancies - drinking, second breakfast, maps, music! Will be spending the MayDay bank holiday walking and will hopefully be crossing the BarrowDowns in the right mileage and making my way to the Great Eastern Road. Can only persuade my little Hobbit to accompany me and keep the Barrow-wights at bay.

Suddenly Tom's talk left the woods and went leaping up the young stream, over pebbles and worn rocks, and among small flowers in close grass and wet crannies, wandering at last up on to the Downs. They heard of the Great Barrows, and the green mounds, and the stone- rings upon the hills and in the hollows among the hills.
A shadow came out of dark places faraway, and the bones were stirred in the mounds. Barrow-wights walked in the hollow places with a clink of rings on cold fingers, and gold chains in the wind.

[Raefindel]

I had planned on doing a parody of Tom Bombadil's song, but I guess I just didn't stay long enough. I have a mind to gather some treasure and obtain a Barrow-blade.


Ring-a-dong dillo, I'll gag you with a pillow!

[ April 30, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

BUCKLEBURY FERRY at last!!! Only about 10 more miles and I'll be out of the Shire. Lunch at the Maggot's was great. Mrs. M makes the best mushrooms this side of the Misty Mountains.

Ring-a-dong dillo, I'll gag you with a pillow!

Raefindel: I have to admit that I sometimes feel like that about Mr. Bombadil too.

--------------------
'I want Mr. Baggins. Have you seen him?' said a muffled voice--but the voice was the voice of Merry Brandybuck. A dark lantern was uncovered, and its light fell on the astonished face of the farmer.
...As he came out of the mist and their fears subsided, he seemed suddenly to diminish to ordinary hobbit-size. He was riding a pony, and a scarf was swathed round his neck and over his chin to keep out the fog.
...'Where did you find them, Mr. Maggot? In your duck-pond?'
'No, I caught 'em trespassing,' said the farmer, 'and nearly set my dogs on 'em; but they'll tell you all the story, I've no doubt. Now, if you'll excuse me, Mr. Merry and Mr. Frodo and all, I'd best be turning for home. Mrs. Maggot will be worriting with the night getting thick.'
...He lit his lanterns, and got up. Suddenly he produced a large basket from under the seat. 'I was nearly forgetting,' he said. 'Mrs. Maggot put this up for Mr. Baggins, with her compliments.' He handed it down and moved off, followed by a chorus of thanks and good-nights.
They watched the pale rings of light round his lanterns as they dwindled into the foggy night. Suddenly Frodo laughed: from the covered basket he held, the scent of mushrooms was rising.

[mark12_30]

I have a mind to gather some treasure and obtain a Barrow-blade.

Golly, why didn't I think of that? And here I've been worried about archery instead of fencing. Maybe I'm morphing into an elf. (Shudder)

Linzielf, I really do love your idea about matching the countryside to the hobbits'. Very cool idea.

Last night what could have been a restful evening turned into a late evening with lots of silly music, making an idiot of myself and then disappearing, and a heated discussion with a guy named Strider.

[ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ May 01, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

I think this is a great idea, so even though I'm starting late I'm going to go for it.
I'll have to walk a lot to catch up, but hey, it'll be fun.

Romerie, Swordmaiden of Rohan

[Nurumaiel]

Romerie
A hearty welcome from Green Hill Country to you! Since you're starting now you should walk about 2 miles per day, I suppose.

Well, I'm now at 24 miles, which isn't wonderful, considering it's been a month and a day I've been walking, but now I find that even if I can't walk more, I can walk at least 2 miles every day, which was quite impossible before. Today will definitely be a 2 mile walk. Not enough time. Tomorrow? That is yet to be seen.

Ahem! Now I'm rambling! Good for all of you who have reached Tom's house. I feel a bit sorry for him. I bet he didn't expect that many at the same time, eh? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And Helen, I'd like to congratulate you on reaching Bree! I'm following far but steadily behind. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Nuru

[mark12_30]

Well, Bree was fun, but it's time to move on, and although it'a damp out, I think just outside the village I'll be detouring off the road and into the hills for a bit.

I hope I won't hit the marshes just yet. But judging by the swarms of midges, they can't be far away.

[Niluial]

I worked it out on the fun and games thing (thanks Lyra [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]) I have reached Woody End, ice-skating really helps though I think that I am still very far behind! It is 6 miles to the next landmark. I STILL HAVE You still have 412 miles to Rivendell.

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

Didn't make it too far today...too many mushrooms yesterday!! I'll spend the weekend at Crickhollow, before heading for the Old Forest next week. I sure hope Merry saved me some hot water. After all this walking, I want to soak for about 2 hours.

--------------------

The ferry-boat moved slowly across the water. The Buckland shore drew nearer. Sam was the only member of the party who had not been over the river before. He had a strange feeling as the slow gurgling stream slipped by: his old life lay behind in the mists, dark adventure lay in front. He scratched his head, and for a moment had a passing wish that Mr. Frodo could have gone on living quietly at Bag End.

[Nurumaiel]

Ever said you were going to do something and then didn't? I said I was going to walk 2 miles.... I didn't.

(I walked 4).

Nearly out of the twenties and into the thirties.

Green Hill Country was extremely pretty on this certain trip. I found a little stream with a stone bridge going over it.... quite beautiful, the scenery and everything. I was pondering on what the scenery could match with and I'm afraid it looks most like Amon Hen from the movie, which isn't on the RtR.

On my way.....
Nurumaiel

[peony_foxburr]

Wow--I made it to the edge of the Old Forest at last. Most days I'm able to get in 4-5 miles, some as many as 7. I'm just hoping the *habit* of walking will remain with me once my LOA is over. Looking for different places to walk (even resembling that part of ME where we're spozed to be)--I like that!

This Pacific Northwest forest gives me a Fangorn feeling:cool rainy climate, evergreens, lots of moss on the trees(supporting little microforests of ferns, fungi, etc), and something called "Old Man's Beard" which reminds me of "Spanish moss." I forget the proper name for what it is though. (Epiphyte?) If I start the TTT soundtrack when I leave the house, am just reaching that woodsy portion of the trail when "Treebeard" begins to play. Any day now, I expect to spot an Ent.

Someone asked about figuring out what meter a song is written in. Yes, it's primarily based on how many syllables are in a line. However, just to confuse things, there can be "extra" notes in the melody, where a syllable is extended over two notes. Thus, when singing new words to a "new" tune, these "slurs" have to be observed in the same spot, and the stressed syllables have to match. Here's an example (don't do this in public or they'll be calling the guys in white coats)to sing: "The road goes ever on & on," to the tune of "It came upon the midnight clear." It's hard to explain concisely, which is where using a familiar tune to illustrate helps. I hope!

[mark12_30]

Peony, I'm glad you brought that up.

(What's an LOA?)

Well, since Mhoram has instituted a Walk To Crickhollow, [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I'm going to mutter something unofficial about a Walk To Mount Doom. I'll probably call it something different...? Something a little more appealing? The Ring Quest, or, I dunno. But I do imagine that there will be a few (perhaps more than a few) who do want to keep going.

Ah, however, if anybody hears of a Barrow-Wightish plot on my account for even mentioning this (I can hear the worthy and noble green penguin howling BANDWIDTH!!! MY BANDWIDTH!!!) then, ah, er, well, don't you know, well, (stammers) perhaps you didn't ... ah... hear it from me??? Or... something. Er, er, er, well, Sam, now, listen, if you love me, you'll tell ABSOLUTELY NO ONE ABOUT THIS, and if you do, then I hope Gandalf DOES turn you into a spotted toad and fill the garden with grass snakes...

**Slinks off to the barrow-downs birthday party trying to stay hidden and whistle casually at the same time**

[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Nurumaiel]

Helen,
I seriously think if you don't slow down a bit, you will have to start walking to Mount Doom! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But don't worry, I never heard the idea from you.... er.... it was.... Elrond's idea that we should get out of Rivendell as fast as we could.... er.... yes.

Ah, I should have known this would be a dangerous thing for me. It's already become annual, you see. Every year, starting on March 25th (ahem!) and ending December 17th (I won't change the date for my own sake... my head will start whirling and I'll get too confused), I will travel to Rivendel (at least, of course). It is an adventure, and I've never had so much fun walking before. Not that I never had fun before, but this is much more enjoyable in every way. All those adventures, walking to Rivendell. Not that I've ever had an adventure bigger than having five bumblebees circle around me for a long stretch of trail....

It was Elrond's idea.....

Nurumaiel

[mark12_30]

Nuru, I love your idea about starting "officially" on March 25. Love it.

Dec 17 will be hard for me to remember, though, because it's not in the books-- is it?--

Here's a few dates from The Encyclopaedia of Arda-- I may pick one of these... was it the 22nd that Frodo crossed the Ford and passed out? or more like the 19th or... gah. I'll have to look it up at home.

1 October Black Riders raid Buckland in the early morning.
25 October The Council of Elrond.
25 December The setting-out of the Fellowship from Rivendell.

EDIT:
According to this link it was the twentieth of October that Frodo reached the Fords of Isen. He woke up on the 24th (OK, makes sense) and the council was on the 25th.
That page is a nice resource, by the way. Check it out.
Funduilas's J. R. R. Tolkien page...

[ May 02, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[peony_foxburr]

"LOA" means "Leave of Absence." I still use my accrued vacation time, but it's either for one's own medical reasons or those of a family member (which is true in my case), or for educational reasons. AND - by law, the employer has to allow it--an issue at my place, where normally nurses can't take more than two weeks off at once, and only one person in my unit can take vacation at a time.

[Nurumaiel]

I rather like the idea of aiming for October 20th - 25th. Ideal, I think, for arriving at Rivendell? First round, though, I'll go for Dec. 17th. '04 will probably be a bit different. Maybe there won't be such a late-coming spring.

Hobbits are made of stern stuff, aren't they? 458 miles, starting Septemember 22nd? That gives them about a month to walk the distance. Especially considering that hobbits tend to be a bit round in the stomach and don't often go on such long treks. Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin have my utmost admiration.

Concerning the Fatty Bolger Challenge... I thought that was really wonderful. It was put on as a joke but I think it should be taken quite seriously by those who don't think they can walk 458 miles. That distance is quite a challenge! But I think we should all do what the WtR page told us to: Don't look at it as going 458 miles. Make small goals. Your first goal would be 18 miles, Green Hill Country. Then 46 miles, etc. Not as... overwhelming.

But if any of them find they've made it to Crickhollow and they still have time left, they'll be welcomed here, I'm sure. The name (The Fatty Bolger Challenge) was too cute for me. I could just see Fredegar walking up Mount Doom... er.... not the point, but that was the image that sprang to mind. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Now, a question! I know some of us are 'being characters.' Elves, Dwarves, Men, Hobbits, etc. Is anybody being a character they've made up from a RPG or story, whether the story is published on a fan fiction page or not?

As for myself, my character is Robin Brandybuck from the Long Winter RPG, now Robin Green, of course. She's travelling to Rivendell again to visit her friend Nicrabanwen and on the way she's stopping at Buckland where her husband Dinodas is working. Her two children are back at Hobbiton in the care of her mother, because they're too young to go on this journey but Robin has to make it. On return from each little trip I write what small adventures I had from still young Robin's point of view. I've built up a lot of sympathy for the poor hobbit, so torn in two. Her husband lies one way and her children the other. At the end of the road, I'll be copying it all down to computer and putting it on a webpage for viewing... will most likely be much too long to post here!

But for those of you who are 'playing' characters on this road: What are their names? Why are they going to Rivendell? Perhaps you have an Elf who was in Hobbiton and is now returning to his/her home? I'm interested in hearing!

28 miles,
Nurumaiel

[Raefindel]

Oh, Nurumaiel! If Tom Bombadil can afford to feed 4 hobbits he can afford to keep a two little elves and a hobbit. After all we elves don't eat as much as hobbits, do we LINZIELF?

I managed to cut myself in the barrow, today. They tried to send me home from work but I refused to get stitches when I had SUPERGLUE in my purse! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ May 03, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Vardamar]

Just a quick update...I have done two more five mile runs..bringing my total up to 88 miles. Still in the Bonfire Glade though.

[alaklondewen]

Well, I've as of today, I have completed the Fatty Bolger Challenge! 74 miles and I'm ready for that hot bath. Old Forest here I come!

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

46... heavens, what must one do to catch up [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. It's much nicer for you who have countryside to walk through, I'm going round and round on the track on campus... hard to imagine the green hill country. More like the black asphalt country (blech...) Does this mean I'm doing Walk Thru Mordor? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Sophia

[ May 04, 2003: Message edited by: Sophia the Thunder Mistress ]