Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

must admit that I was rather surprised that the three - now four - women all left separately.

Bella was pretty upset that the guys left, and when she told this to Mellonin and Argeleafa, they were cheery/optimistic but not very helpful/comforting (except to offer tea). I wouldn't go back to someone for comfort if last time they had said, "We all do; but there it is..." even if Mellonin was just trying to be strong on the outside. In my mind Bellyn left because she probably didn't think anyone would listen to her - really listen to her. Also probably because she was in a frantic state after the dream. I guess.

I'll assume then that Leafa has also left on her own, which seems desperately out of character for her; she had better have one whopping dream, seems to me.

Do you want us to go back and change what we have so they all leave together? It would be a lot of deleting/rewriting but we could do it...it sounds like you want to change it.

Just wondering...

[littlemanpoet]

No sense trying to sweep the spilled milk back into the bottle, though one may wish to cry over it.... No, don't change it. But Nuru, you are going to need one incredible dream for Leafa, or else she is going to have to be very convincing to get a bodyguard to go with her (which seems just as out of character....) (LMP shrugs). So no, don't change stuff. It's hard enough keeping this going without going back and editing. Ick.

[Nurumaiel]

Well, I'll have to think about it a bit. It seems to me that the more incredible the dream gets, the more likely it is that Leafa would go to someone about it.

Now, are all the ladies lodging together? Because if they are, and really if they aren't, and Bella has left nearly two days ago, I'm sure Leafa would have noticed by now. Or is my post supposed to be inserted somewhere earlier?

If the latter is the case, in other words all the ladies left the same night and I just have some catching up to do, then I might be able to come up with a possible scenario to get Leafa away without a wild dream.

If she had a dream, she would be the sort of girl to tell someone about it before she did anything. In that case, I could picture her going to Bella, finding that she's gone, and setting out after her, thinking she couldn't have gone too far. At that point Leafa could perhaps catch up with one or the other of the ladies, they could converse, and resolve to go on.

Does that sound plausible? I'm hoping to come up with something that doesn't involve an incredible dream... aside from the fact that even such an event probably wouldn't inspire Leafa to just leave, I don't want to worry about coming up with something astounding.

[littlemanpoet]

I'd say that we're looking at Leafa dreaming and leaving the same night. Thus, your scenario looks like it ought to work fine. I'd suggest that you post it to this thread, figure out where you want it on the story thread, and ask the person whose post precedes the location you desire, to add it to the end of his or her post. Agreeable?

[Nurumaiel]

That will work fine. I'll try to get a post done soon, after a rather stupid question...

What exactly is the nature of Leafa's dream supposed to be?

I'm afraid I've always been a bit fuzzy on the dream aspect of the story.

[littlemanpoet]

Well, that's a very good question, actually, because the nature of all of the dreams in this Tapestry have been such that the dreamer has a personal connection to the subject.

Aeron dreams of Gwyllian, his dead sister.
Raefindan dreams of Mithrellas because (according to Tolkien's system) he is Imrazor reincarnated.
et cetera.

So what would Argaleafa's connection be to anything having to do with Amroth's story?

I have but one suggestion that just creeped into my head based on one of the new characters in our Book 2: Celuien's character, Saethryd (Sæthryd), is Eorling, I believe. Perhaps Argaleafa and Sæthryd are related? Step-sisters? cousins? Second cousins? Third? Just imagine what kind of backstory might arise out of such a combination....

thus, Leafa could dream of Sæthryd....

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I have but one suggestion that just creeped into my head based on one of the new characters in our Book 2: Celuien's character, Saethryd (Sæthryd), is Eorling, I believe. Perhaps Argaleafa and Sæthryd are related? Step-sisters? cousins? Second cousins? Third? Just imagine what kind of backstory might arise out of such a combination....

thus, Leafa could dream of Sæthryd....

I really like that! I'd thought of a cousin who died wandering near the Paths as her connection to the dreams, but if it's okay for her to be related to Leafa, that would be very, very interesting.

[littlemanpoet]

I don't see as one must rule out the other. So, Nuru, does that help?

[Celuien]

Okay. I'll keep the other portion too, but more as background for Saethryrd's inital visions that helped drive her to her current state. I think being related to Leafa is a better way to account for her having these particular dreams, since Leafa is the one who is involved in the current story events.

[littlemanpoet]

If you don't need the Paths of the Dead - dead cousin - don't feel like you have to use it.

Good writing strategy: Don't need? Drop it.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Aylwen, where does your last post place Bellyn, in general?

For that matter, where are Mellonin and Leafa? And that other new Elven woman of Helen's?

Wherever Mellonin is, the "other elven woman" is right with her-- because Mellonin is dreaming her, 'hosting' her more or less, just like all those other 'pairs'. Mellonin is strongly submerged (that's what the fever was about). I'm not against her resurfacing. Makes things interesting.

And anyone can connect with Mellonin anytime. I left it vague in the hopes that all three ladies would end up on vaguely the same road headed over the mountains someplace, vaguely towards Saethryd and Rudh.

[littlemanpoet]

You mean that Avaryn (or whatever her name is) is Mellonin, like Amroth is Mellondu?

[Nurumaiel]

lmp and Celuien, I love the idea!

Celuien, Sæthryd is older than Leafa by a few years, in which case, even if they lived close by one another, Leafa wouldn't remember the incident of Sæthryd's disappearance. My thought is that perhaps Leafa's father was partly inspired to become a wayfarer because he was ashamed of Sæthryd's wild wanderings. I picture him as the fellow that would be deeply effected by something like that. He's a very proud man, in a very odd way.

I imagine they would have left while Sæthryd was still quite young and Leafa was little more than a baby, and, that is to say, they left the immediate vicinity. If my memory of Leafa's history serves me correctly, they didn't go off with the wayfarers until much later. As a child, Leafa would have no doubt heard her father tell the story many times, and it would have made a deep impression on her.

Briefly put, the two families lived close to one another up until the time when Sæthryd went mad, at which point Leafa's family left, as her father became ashamed of the connection. Leafa would have no memories of Sæthryd, but would have heard much about her. Does this sound all right with you? As for the precise nature of their connection, I have no strong feelings about it. Would cousins do?

lmp, thanks for the wonderful suggestion. I'm beginning to feel inspired again.

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

I also have this question, and it's been bugging me for a bit...

Are the men going to go and try and find the women eventually?

Just curious.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Nurumaiel

Briefly put, the two families lived close to one another up until the time when Sæthryd went mad, at which point Leafa's family left, as her father became ashamed of the connection. Leafa would have no memories of Sæthryd, but would have heard much about her. Does this sound all right with you? As for the precise nature of their connection, I have no strong feelings about it. Would cousins do?

That all sounds fine.

I think cousins would be a good way to connect them. Far enough apart to be plausible given what we already know about their immediate families, and close enough to give them a solid connection.

[Imladris]

Are the men going to go and try and find the women eventually?


Aeron will push for them to do so.

Speaking of which he's probably due for a post again...will try to get one up soonishly.

[littlemanpoet]

I've been waiting for Formy to post for Bergil and Indil, to get them to cross the paths of the Elves and Men. If that does not happen in the next two days, I will write a 3rd person matter of fact version of it myself so we can get this plot moving again, and the Men chasing after the women.

I've also been waiting for the women to all leave Minas Tirith and figure out where they are (in a general way) before posting for Tharonwë.

And I don't really know where Jorje and Rugh are going.

Fooooooooormeeeeeee! Hellooooooooo?

[Firefoot]

And I don't really know where Jorje and Rugh are going.

Neither do I. And neither, I think, does Rugh.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I've been waiting for Formy to post for Bergil and Indil, to get them to cross the paths of the Elves and Men. If that does not happen in the next two days, I will write a 3rd person matter of fact version of it myself so we can get this plot moving again, and the Men chasing after the women.

I've also been waiting for the women to all leave Minas Tirith and figure out where they are (in a general way) before posting for Tharonwë.

And I don't really know where Jorje and Rugh are going.

Fooooooooormeeeeeee! Hellooooooooo?

Sorry... I've been following the discussion and posts, but my implicit understanding was that there was more that needed/wanted doing ere Bergil rode up. (Well, I was also content to wait on it, but that was incidental...)

Now that I know otherwise, you can expect something in the next day or two. I think.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

If I'm even more not around than usual, it's because my computer died a tragic death over the weekend and I currently don't have it. I'm going to try to get it back in my ish-possession tonight, but I'm not sure exactly how to go about fixing it, or how long it will take, or if I'll ever like my computer enough again to use it, given it spazzed out and lost every single thing I had saved (and not backed up) on my hard drive. Yeah. Welcome to my life.

Feel free to carry Indil (it's not like she's hard to write... she's a quiet kid that cries at random) as long as I'm off on a technology/academic crusade.

[Formendacil]

Post up.

--As always, any comments to the improvement of the post, the correction of the characterisation, or the continuity of the plot are much appreciated.

[littlemanpoet]

I wonder what the proximity is between Rugh and Saethryd? Rugh would be somewhat near the forest of the Woses, whilst Saethryd would be probably a little farther west, but not much farther? Or is that wrong? You see, I'm wondering if it's possible to have Jorje sniff out Saethryd too?

[littlemanpoet]

Nicely done, Immy.

And so we have ourselves a bit of a pickle. Ædegard and Raefindan are going to stay true to their word despite what they might WANT to do. The only way out of this is for Mellondu to decide to go after the women. ..... right?

[Formendacil]

Depends what you mean by "a way out of it"... Is it fact, then, that the menfolk are going to pursue the ladies? It wasn't exactly clear thus far...

~Bergil's Writer, who now has no plot, but will drift until some decision is made~

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I wonder what the proximity is between Rugh and Saethryd? Rugh would be somewhat near the forest of the Woses, whilst Saethryd would be probably a little farther west, but not much farther? Or is that wrong? You see, I'm wondering if it's possible to have Jorje sniff out Saethryd too?

I need to look at a map again, but she probably is a little bit to the west.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Depends what you mean by "a way out of it"... Is it fact, then, that the menfolk are going to pursue the ladies? It wasn't exactly clear thus far...

It had always been my understanding that the men would go after the women; but that need not be so. In fact, the party of men could "break their fellowship"; the notion does have precedent.

~Bergil's Writer, who now has no plot, but will drift until some decision is made~

Do you have interest in continuing to write in Tapestry?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Do you have interest in continuing to write in Tapestry?

If Tapestry is willing to keep me, that was the plan...

My "plan", so far as I had one was to get Bergil to the menfolk, and see what happened from there. Well, I'm there... now to see what happens. Basically, I was saying that I'm done all that I had prepared for mentally. Not knowing what the menfolk are doing, I can't really say I know what Bergil's doing.

[littlemanpoet]

What drives Bergil? Why does he do what he does? What does he care about? What doesn't he care about? Whom does he respect highly, and why?

See, you need some motivation for this character beyond plot, or else he will remain passive, which seems out of character for the Bergil we read of in LotR.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Let me know if I should change anything/everything...

[littlemanpoet]

I like it! A lot! I have only one minor request for change. As you have seen from my post just above yours, I'm shooting for Raefindan to be frankly dense to any such possibility as Angela standing before him in the person of Indil, for at least a while. Maybe for a long time. Despite all the signs. So he's not going to connect them on his own.

Raefindan looked from Bergil to the elves and back to the child, kneeling to her height. Her eyes... why did her eyes look so...

I like this, a lot, yet it suggests that Raefindan is actually open minded enough to consider that maybe, just maybe, he should know these eyes from somewhere. He simply isn't going to get it. So perhaps if I may suggest the following, though I will not hold you to it, exactly; in fact, feel free to debate me:

Raefindan looked from Bergil to the elves and back to the child, kneeling to her height. Her eyes were soft brown. He liked her eyes; maybe because they were so curious and open-to-life.

So she's not a dead ringer for Angela after all, is she?

Here are some interesting things to keep on the front burner now that we're finally to this point (can you tell I'm excited?):

Originally Posted by alak

I know we're not this far along in building this line of the story as the actual character is not yet created, but...what if Erebemlin & company discovered a fevered woman...somewhere...and Erebemlin (or Taitheneb as he's more understanding of humans) tries to bring her out and steps into her dream and...and find Mithrellas or more clues as to Nimrodel's location or something that makes them realize this woman needs to be kept around...

Originally Posted by Feanor

I need a plausible reason for a female to be able to wander ME w/o family or well-meaning folks taking her in for the sake of propriety.

young orphan? 4-7

as a child, she'd be open to more things...

open-minded toward the supernatural; not yet given to the prejudices of her society

also more likely to ask questions
to bind the group against Thoronwë's desires
to be controlled by Thoronwë's mind

would need Elvish supervision?
and female travelling companions

dreams of Mithrellas & Imrazor through bloodline
nightmares of dying parents
and of Angela

And for my own sake, I'm making THIS available here and now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

So perhaps if I may suggest the following, though I will not hold you to it, exactly; in fact, feel free to debate me:

Works for me. I'll edit it in now.

[littlemanpoet]

So would it be feasible for Jorje in his travels with Rugh to somehow sniff out Saethryd?

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

So would it be feasible for Jorje in his travels with Rugh to somehow sniff out Saethryd?

I think so. She's definitely a presence.

[Firefoot]

As long as Saethryd wanders a fair way east from Dunharrow now and again (Rugh doesn't get that far west...), I think so. Like... is it plausible that she would ever get as far as Firien Wood? Because I think that initially you and I had imagined our characters' typical domains as being on opposite sides of the mountains.

[Celuien]

My mistake. She is, in fact, on the other side of the mountains (the Gondor side). She wanders, but it's probably still a fairly long walk to the wood. I don't know the exact distance - maybe about a day.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, therefore, if I understand the Rugh and Saethryd characters, to be loners and wanderers only in their own domains, then Jorje would have to leave Rugh in order to find Saethryd ... which isn't realistic unless Jorje starts having dreams.

Therefore, it seems to me that it is going to be the women who run across Rugh and Jorje, and then after that Jorje and the women (presumably with Rugh) will happen across Saethryd about a day later. Does that make sense?

[littlemanpoet]

Tomorrow, when I get a chance (or as soon as I get a chance), I'll write a post in which Jorje, with Rugh, is almost run over by a horse with a female rider. I'll leave it vague so that one of you can choose to be the rider.

It occurred to me, also, that this rpg (character, or plot based?) may be suffering from a lack of enemies. Thoughts?

[Imladris]

Wouldn't go so far as to say enemies...but I will say that we need conflict.

The only real conflict that I can see right now is Aeron vs Ædegard and the elves. When that one bad elf (name escapes me at the moment) enters more on the scene that'll add some action.

But yes. Definately more conflict is needed between the good guys.

[Nurumaiel]

I'd like to apologise for not having yet written up a post for Leafa. Last weekend, the weekend I intended to do so, I landed the wrong way on my wrist, and though there were no broken bones, it was rather badly sprained and is currently in a splint. I'm just beginning to use it again, but it will be about another week until it's really better.

I'll work on the post, however, bit by bit, and sooner or later it will be done.

[littlemanpoet]

Fea, I'm making it so that your difficult post to write is no longer necessary. Feel free to delete your save.

I'm also making a Jorje post, inserting a nondescript woman on horseback. Hope this helps move things along a little bit.

Okay, Jorje is up to Saethryd, with a woman and her horse. Which woman, I don't know. I don't know if Saethryd is even at the cottage.

What Rugh is up to now that Jorje has left him, I don't know. Does he follow? Wait?

....hello?.....