Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Did she love him? She certainly goes to bat for him at least once, but that's in her role as Mercy. Given how unrepentant Melkor is, it's hard to see how the Weeper could fall for him.

Which brings me to the first (and only) real creep in the Silmarilion: Eol the Dark Elf, maker of Anglachel/Gurthang (which just so happened to end up in the hands of someone as dark and brooding as he himself was)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

About Morgoth and Nienna

It miiiight be polite to mention when you're linking to explicit smut.

Also: the fact that someone wrote fanfic of it doesn't make it true. I have a very long story asserting that Legolas went on a time-travelling adventure to throw pancakes in the face of most of Middle-earth, but that doesn't mean you should cite it as evidence of baked goods weaponry. From what I caught before closing it, that story doesn't even make a case: it just sort of throws them together.

Which is fine; it's fanfic, and moreover it's smut. But it's not an argument.

My own Nienna/Melkor story, for what it's worth, is over here, and is perfectly safe to read. But also doesn't make a case out-of-universe.

hS

[Urwen]

I can so picture it.....

[SETTING: After Dagor Dagorath]

EOL
*sips tea*
Why, you're finally here. Wanna talk?

TURIN:
Talk about what?

EOL:
They hail you as a hero, don't you know? They sing praises to you, who drove your sword into Morgoth's black heart. Serves him right, that sucker, ha! And yet, they all overlook my contribution to the whole thing....

TURIN:
*frowns*
What are you talking about?

EOL:
I made your sword, you know? It was the finest piece of work I've ever created. There was another just like it. It's sibling, you know. Then it was taken from me by....someone I wish I could wipe out from my memory. Still, your contribution help me quell my bitterness about that....incident.

[enter Nellas, clearly displeased at the view]

NELLAS:
*frowns*
Stay away from my husband, spouse-killer

TURIN:
*stands up*
It's okay, it really is.

NELLAS:
No, it's not. He is only trying to corrupt you.

TURIN:
*wry grin*
Ah, the irony. In the past, it was me who corrupted others.

NELLAS:
That was Morgoth's influence.

TURIN:
If I had stayed with you, none of that would have happened, so some of the blame lies with me.
*suddenly notices that his sword is no longer there*

EOL:
It served its purpose in slaying Morgoth, so now I'm taking it back. Thank you.

TURIN:
Meh, I am better off without it. Shall we?

*Turin and Nellas wander off together, as the scene fades to black*

[Urwen]

Someone should totally write a fanfiction about Turin and Eol meeting one another.....

[Urwen]

I just read a story which nearly drove me to tears. What really gets me is the fact that he destroyed the best thing he ever had out of petty jealousy.....

[Urwen]

Do you believe that Feanor was a genius? And what are your thoughts on his exile?

[Urwen]

I wish I could talk about certain someone for all of eternity.

gurd tuohtiw a gurd ym si nilgeam rof

[Urwen]

I am curious about the song lyrics of these two songs (links lead to song lyrics, not videos).

Some people claim that both songs are about Maeglin, while some say that the first one is about Anglachel and the second one is about Turin. What are your thoughts on this subject?

[Urwen]

I want to write a story inspired by these two songs and I want to know who the main character should be.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I want to write a story inspired by these two songs and I want to know who the main character should be.

I think I've said before that I'm not all that into music questions, but since you asked nicely (elsewhere), and since I'm already vaguely familiar with the songs, okay...

-Is The Dark Elf one of the narrative/non-lyrical songs? The link you give only provides one line ("A dark seed of evil is grown"), which certainly sounds like those tracks (the most hilarious is 'Lammoth', which is just a 20 second scream). Anyway, the title certainly points at Eol, since it's his usual moniker.

-Thorn is said by Wikipedia to be about Maeglin in captivity, and I can't argue. Look at these lines:

Come follow me
And you will see
How it will be
When all the pain is gone away

I'm lost in the depths of his eyes
I can't flee
Inner pain caused insanity
It's deep within
The fear and the hunger
Enslaved and denied
By my love and my enemies
I'm the illgotten son

That latter quote is just a paraphrase of the idea that Morgoth put a shadow of fear in Maeglin's heart before he sent him back. It specifically doesn't work for Turin, because he was never caught by anyone's eyes (that was Nienor), and wasn't denied by either of his canonical loves (rather, he denied Finduilas).

Have you listened to the whole album? I admit to mostly liking Nightfall itself, but there's some good stuff on there.

hS

[Urwen]

Yes, I have listened to the whole album.

What got me thinking is this single lyric:

The dark seed of evil is sown/grown

The book says something similar about Maeglin.

What if there is a deeper meaning behind that?

It is stated in the book that Morgoth feared Turgon more than anything else? What if he took a more proactive role in bringing about his demise, using one of the Elves he stole from Cuivinen? He had one of his Orcs rape her, and she gave birth to Eol, who in turn, ensnared Aredhel, who gave birth to Maeglin. Why would he do this? Simple, to bring Maeglin into the world as his instrument against Turgon and his line.

That would also explain why he didn't torture him as badly as the other prisoners. Maeglin had been programmed to aid him from the get go. It was in his blood, and therefore he knew Maeglin wouldn't defy him as easily.

And when Maeglin was old enough, Morgoth instilled within him a desire to seek out Gondolin, just as Ulmo did with Tuor, as well as a desire to possess Idril, thus ensuring his path as the bringer of destruction for Gondolin, Turgon and Turgon's line.

Maeglin was literally programmed to betray Gondolin, and that's what 'the dark seed of evil' line (both in the song and the book) really means.

[Urwen]

Please share your thoughts on this.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Urwen

It was in his blood, and therefore he knew Maeglin wouldn't defy him as easily.

So, you're saying genetics determines behavior?

That stance is going to earn you a bit of dislike from... certain groups.

[Urwen]

Sometimes it does, according to several sources. Plus, in case you didn't notice from my recent posts, I am not anti-Maeglin, I am pro-Maeglin.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Sometimes it does, according to several sources. Plus, in case you didn't notice from my recent posts, I am not anti-Maeglin, I am pro-Maeglin.

But why do you think it's impossible to be pro-Maeglin without rewriting his story all the time? You keep trying to change his story to make excuses for him. Well, he did bad things, and it was his fault, and a made up excuse is not going to change that. Doesn't mean he's not an interesting character. By trying to explain away a character's shortcomings and blaming them on external sources you are actually making them a more boring character.


As for this specific theory, that implies Morgoth knew that Aredhel would be wandering about in that particular region of the world, and that Eol would have to know it too and marry her with the purpose of desteoying Gondolin... Not too complicated?

And dark seeds of evil. What's wrong with the more conventional interpretation of corrupted thought or spirit?

[Urwen]

Why do I keep doing it, you ask? Well, it is because I am pro-Maeglin, and hence I don't want him to die.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Why do I keep doing it, you ask? Well, it is because I am pro-Maeglin, and hence I don't want him to die.

That's like being pro-gravity and not wanting things to fall. If you like the character the way he was written, why would you want to change the way he was written?

Also, spoiler, but he still dies.

So I still don't get it. *shrugs*

[Urwen]

I never said I like him the way he was written, because his canonical-self dies, and I am not okay with that. You're the ones who like him the way he is written. You're the ones who are happy that he died.

Then again, you do have a point. If he were different, the reasons I started liking him in the first place would be gone. (I like tragic villains, okay?)

However, his death is still something I feel shouldn't have happened. Two sides of me warring over this: one side of me knows it had to have been, while the other side rejects that idea.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Then again, you do have a point. If he were different, the reasons I started liking him in the first place would be gone. (I like tragic villains, okay?)

Yeah, that's exactly my point (and I like tragic characters too, you're not the only one ). The beauty of tragic heroes and anti-heroes is the tragedy. You want it to not happen that way, but you also like the story because it happens that way. The joy is in the pain?

But it's not just about the tragic ending. The latest alternative history you propose here still maintains Maeglin's death, it just takes away the tragedy and complexity behind it. It isn't anymore the story of an outsider whose lust lead him to terrible moral decisions, a story of passion and motivation. Instead it's a story of a machine doing its job. If Maeglin was pre-programmed to do everything he's done, as you propose, the tragic aspect - the willingness to send the whole world to hell to get what he desires. He's Terminator, he isn't a person, isn't a complex character.

[Urwen]

And yet, I still didn't want him to die, just as I didn't want Feanor, Maedhros, Aredhel, Turin, Nienor, Tar-Miriel or Urwen to die.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

And yet, I still didn't want him to die, just as I didn't want Feanor, Maedhros, Aredhel, Turin, Nienor, Tar-Miriel or Urwen to die.

And isn't it great? Some of these characters did terrible things, and yet we still love them and don't want them to die! Doesn't that speak to the depth of these characters and the quality of the story?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And isn't it great? Some of these characters did terrible things, and yet we still love them and don't want them to die! Doesn't that speak to the depth of these characters and the quality of the story?

Yes, but you forgot one little detail: they still died even though we didn't want them to die.

[Urwen]

So I recently stumbled upon a site which has a lot of alternative names for characters. Some I have unearthed:

Maeglin - Morleg, Glirhuin
Eol - Eor, Alvar
Aredhel: Rodwen
Earendil: Gaerdil, Aradamir, Horvendill, Orentil
Saeros: Orgof
Tuor: Eladar
Gwindor: Galweg
Turin: Gormagli

[Urwen]

I just had a thought: Aredhel was the original 'Ar-Something' title user, and the Ar- kings of Numenor were emulating her and things relating to her. Think about it:

1. She couldn't have died of old age, which is why they wanted immortality
2. She had a controlling husband, which is why the women of Numenor took a backseat in the days of Ar-kings (*leers at Phary*)
3. Said husband killed both her and himself, as Phary's actions caused the deaths of himself and his wife.
4. Her son was in love with his first cousin (*leers at Phary some more*)

You get the idea...

[Morsul the Dark]

I’m so excited this thread exists I was planning a similar one.

I’m going to piggyback and say I thoroughly wish we knew more about the dwarves at Bagend the night Bilbo left.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I’m so excited this thread exists I was planning a similar one.

I’m going to piggyback and say I thoroughly wish we knew more about the dwarves at Bagend the night Bilbo left.

Well, we slightly do! Let's take a look at them:

Originally Posted by FotR

An odd-looking waggon laden with odd-looking packages rolled into Hobbiton one evening and toiled up the Hill to Bag End. The startled hobbits peered out of lamplit doors to gape at it. It was driven by outlandish folk, singing strange songs: dwarves with long beards and deep hoods. A few of them remained at Bag End.

We know that Bilbo's walking-companions arrived in early September, so were hanging out at Bag-End for 1-2 weeks. We know they came from the Lonely Mountain, by way of Dale.

We can also conclude that they're old enough to have been alive at the time of the Battle of Five Armies, but they may not have fought in it. If they're under about 100, they would have been children during the Battle; and even if older, they may have been in the Blue Mountains, not the Iron Hills. See next point.

Originally Posted by FotR

'And look at the outlandish folk that visit him: dwarves coming at night...'

This quote comes before the one above, and tells us that Bilbo had dwarves as guests often enough for Sandyman to notice. Given that the Shire doesn't exactly have trade with Erebor, those dwarves were probably mostly passing through on their way to and from the Blue Mountains. I think it's reasonable to guess that Bilbo's house-guests and walking-companions weren't people he'd just met that month: more plausibly, they were some of those traders and/or other migrants crossing the Shire.

More tentatively, that means they may have been from Thorin's faction of the Longbeards, not Dain's. The people most likely to make the long and dangerous journey to the Blue Mountains are the ones who used to live there, not the ones from the Iron Hills! That makes them either children during Thorin's quest, or dwarves who didn't go with him to Erebor.

Originally Posted by HoME VI: Return to Hobbiton

'Nar, Anar, Hannar, are you ready? Right. Off we go.'

It's from the draft, but they have names! Furthermore, from their names, they're probably a set of brothers (see: Balin and Dwalin) or two brothers and a cousin (see: Dori, Nori, and Ori), or maybe a father and two sons (see: Groin, Oin, and Gloin). Definitely close relatives, at any rate.

Originally Posted by Appendix A

Years afterwards Thrór, now old, poor, and desperate, gave to his son Thráin the one great treasure he still possessed, the last of the Seven Rings, and then he went away with one old companion only, called Nár.

Slightly speculatively: dwarven names often recur down the family tree (there are three Nains, for example). A lot of these could be just families using the names of kings, but there's no King Nar that we know of. Nar, companion of Bilbo, could be a descendent of Nar, companion of Thror. There's about 200 years between their appearances, and Thror's Nar was old; given that dwarves tend to have their children at age 100, we're looking at Bilbo's friends being his grandchildren or great-grandchildren. They may be old enough to have heard the tale of Thror's death in Moria first-hand; they would certainly have heard it from the elder Nar's children.

This would tie in nicely with the idea of them being Blue Mountain dwarves originally, who had moved to Erebor after the Battle of Five Armies.

Much more speculatively: Nar is not mentioned at the Battle of Azanulbizar, nor anyone related to him. Tolkien being Tolkien, if the family of the dwarf who witnessed Thror's death was present during the fight to avenge him, you'd expect a mention somewhere! So I can imagine Thrain taking his father's companion by the shoulder and saying 'You're not coming; you've done enough'. Whether he means 'by serving Thror to the last' or 'because you got him killed' is open to interpretation, but the upshot is that the later Nar, and his kinsmen Anar and Hannar, would have been left out of Thorin's expedition because their family has already Done Enough. (We know dwarves have long memories - they still have a grudge against the elves over Thingol!)

~

And that, I think, is all we know or can plausibly deduce. Tolkien Gateway claims that in the early drafts Nar is given "some dialogue and a bit more development", but I think this is wrong: they've carried it across from Lofar, the fourth dwarf who stayed back with Gandalf and has a line to himself ("Goodbye, Bingo; I am going with Gandalf"). He was dropped completely from the book, while the others just lost their names; but their only dialogue appears only ever to have been "Everything" in response to Bilbo asking if everything was ready.

(One cheeky final bit of speculation: the Blue Mountains were originally home to the dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost, who mingled with Durin's folk after Beleriand fell. Those two cities were founded by the Firebeard and Broadbeam houses. At least two dwarves of Nogrod, Telchar and Naugladur, have seemingly Elvish use-names. "Nar" is the Quenya word for "fire", as "Anar" is Quenya for "Sun"... could they be ancient use-name adopted by the Firebeards who came in contact with the Quenya-fluent elves of Eregion, which werelater taken to be Northern names and matched with the similar Hannar? )

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I just had a thought: Aredhel was the original 'Ar-Something' title user, and the Ar- kings of Numenor were emulating her and things relating to her. Think about it:

1. She couldn't have died of old age, which is why they wanted immortality
2. She had a controlling husband, which is why the women of Numenor took a backseat in the days of Ar-kings (*leers at Phary*)
3. Said husband killed both her and himself, as Phary's actions caused the deaths of himself and his wife.
4. Her son was in love with his first cousin (*leers at Phary some more*)

You get the idea...

No response to that? :sadface:

[Urwen]

In my native language, this guy is spelled like this, which I find rather interesting...

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Lots of names were recycled by Numenorian Men, which used to belong to Men and Elves alike (as Nerwen's recent riddle proved). Do Elves recycle their names though? I'm interested to see if there's an example.

I'm a bit late to this particular party but in my opinion, and generally speaking, Elves repeated names. Tolkien's late comment about the name Glorfindel has already been raised, but to repeat it here:

"At any rate what at first sight may seem the simplest solution must be abandoned: sc. that we have merely a reduplication of names, and that Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell were different persons. This repetition of so striking a name, though possible, would not be credible. No other major character in the Elvish legends as reported in The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings has a name born by another Elvish person of importance."

JRRT, Glorfindel II, The Peoples of Middle-Earth

In the margin JRRT also wrote: "Why not?" which in my opinion seems to refer to the "credible" part, and is arguably answered by the next sentence (as Christopher Tolkien appears to think as well). In addition, a Tolkienian note (same text) about the name Galdor reads:

"Galdor also appeared in The Fall of Gondolin, but the name is of a more simple and usual form [than Glorfindel] and might be repeated."

And back to the credible statement for a moment, in my opinion -- if this is indeed Tolkien's answer to "why not" -- well, let's just say I might respond with something like: "Well, not yet! That is, you can make it so."

Cough. That is, if I met JRRT in real life and could actually speak in his presence. And if I jumped that hurdle, I still dared to annoy him with such a response (unlikely, I think).



And this late comment raises the question of "importance" and "striking-ness" too, but in any case, we have other examples to possibly consider, some from JRRT's late writings.


Argon -- name often given by Sindar and Noldor in memory of Aracano's valour (The Shibboleth of Feanor)

Celebrimbor -- Sindarized form of Telerin Telperimpar -- said to be a frequent name among the Teleri (late writing, noted in Of Dwarves And Men, note 7).

Rúmil -- there are seemingly two Rúmils noted in The Lord of the Rings.

Gelmir -- there are seemingly two Gelmirs in Silmarillion writings.

Ambarussa -- (somewhat related here, though not exactly reflective of the point in general): Nerdanel gave her 6th and 7th child the same name: Ambarussa, though Feanor called one Ambarto desiring that they should be differently named.


Finarfin's Mother-name was Ingoldo, and Finarfin itself is a Sindarization of his name Arafinwe after being "prefixed" by the name Finwe -- that is, Finwe Arafinwe > Finarfin (see also Finwe Nolofinwe > Fingolfin)

Finrod's Mother-name was Ingoldo as well. And . . .

"Eärwen gave this name [Ingoldo] to her eldest child Artafindë (Finrod), and by it he was usually called by his brothers and sister who esteemed him and loved him. It was never Sindarized (the form would have been Angoloð). The name spread from his kin to many others who held him in honour, especially to Men (the Atani) of whom he was the greatest friend among the Eldar."

JRRT Shibboleth of Feanor

"Especially to Men" at least seems to include Elves too. In my opinion anyway

[Urwen]

Guess people no longer want to talk with me about things, not here at least. Oh well...back to creating individual topics...

[Galin]

In part I'm pouring my unpaid research into the web to see if it induces sleep!

Another example nobody prepared for:

It's interesting to me that a certain legend once included Morgoth knowing where Gondolin was before Maeglin was captured -- he'd heard of a Man [Tuor] wandering in the dales of the waters of Sirion, and he gathered spies, and not only orcs but snakes that could search "the deepest pits and the highest peaks", and wolves, dogs, great weasels -- thus including things that "could take scent moons old through running water"

Add owls and falcons!

"And all these came in multitudes" -- to seek this Man and search out the dwelling of the Noldoli that had escaped his thraldom."

Of course the context surrounding this -- including the thrall Noldoli and Morgoth's hold on the "Great Lands" (and other stuff) is very different here . . . but one does think of the Crebain!

Anyway, if I recall correctly -- and if not, please correct me (said me on the internet) -- in earlier versions of the Túrin saga, Húrin's release didn't reveal the location of Gondolin in any measure. And if so, the following from The Wanderings of Húrin is a newer conception:

"Yet there were ears that heard the words that Húrin spoke, and report of all came soon to the Dark Throne in the north; and Morgoth smiled, for he knew now clearly in what region Turgon dwelt, though because of the eagles no spy of his could yet come within sight of the land behind the Encircling Mountains. This was the first evil that the freedom of Húrin achieved."

JRRT, The Wanderings of Húrin, The War of the Jewels -- used in Of the Ruin of Doriath, The Silmarillion.

CJRT then reveals: "At this point in the draft manuscript my father wrote:

"Later when captured and Maeglin wished to buy his release with treachery, Morgoth must answer laughing, saying: Stale news will buy nothing. I know this already, I am not so easily blinded! So Maeglin was obliged to offer more -- to undermine resistance in Gondolin.' [a further note of almost exact wording adds] 'and to compass the death of Tuor and Earendil if he could. If he did he would be allowed to retain Idril (said Morgoth)."

Note 30 The Wanderings of Húrin

For clarity, I've no problem with Christopher Tolkien's decision to combine descriptions here for the 1977 Silmarillion . . .

. . . and for me, the combining the 1930 Qenta Noldorinwa (QN) and the Wanderings of Húrin (WH) leaves the impression that Húrin betrayed a general location, and Maeglin's betrayal was needed for the assault -- that is, Maeglin provided the "very" location (the word very was added by CJRT for The Silmarillion), and "the ways whereby it might be found and assailed" (from QN).

Christopher Tolkien (commentary The Fall of Gondolin, The Book of Lost Tales) even notes: "Thus in the Silmarillion Morgoth remained in ignorance until Maeglin's capture of the precise location of Gondolin, and Maeglin's information was of correspondingly greater value to him, as it was also of greater damage to the city."


CJRT also noted in the Foreword of WJ that so much of the last chapters of Quenta Silmarillion remained in the form of the Qenta Noldorinwa of 1930 (aside from meagre hints) -- in other words, they weren't updated in the 1950s for example, like earlier chapters had been, and:

"For this there can be no simple explanation, but it seems to me that an important element was the centrality that my father accorded to the story of Húrin and Morwen and their children, Túrin Turambar and Nienor Niniel. This became for him, I think, the dominant and absorbing story of the end of the Elder Days, in which complexity of motive and character, trapped in the mysterious workings of Morgoth's curse, sets it altogether apart. (...)"

He then notes the new dimension to the ruin that Húrin's release would bring: his catastrophic entry into the land of Haleth's people (WH). But could Húrin as the "principle betrayer" of the location of Gondolin be part of this too?



Again, in very early The Book of Lost Tales the information about Gondolin from Meglin concerns the fashion of the plain and city, of the host, and the hoard of weapons, and he tells that Melko's host could not hope to overthrow the walls and gates of Gondolin even if they availed to win into the plain. The idea that Maeglin's treachery would involve other factors beyond location would not be a wholly new departure, then, but rather more like the earlier notion (in general at least).

I also find Christopher Tolkien's choice of phrasing here interesting (the first is from commentary to WH, followed in the book by the text from QN -- the second from commentary to the Tale of Years):

"Thus the story in Q was changed (IV. 143)"

"510 The story that the site of Gondolin was revealed to Morgoth by Maeglin was later changed: see pp. 272-3 and note 30."

:awakes:



So you see (recently "so" seems to be a celebrated sentence starter)? A sleep-inducing info dump of sorts!

But this thread needed more Maeglin in my opinion. And maybe a morsel more alliteration too.

And so

[Urwen]

That's great, but please talk about the more recent topics too. >.>

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

( . . . ) "Nar" is the Quenya word for "fire", as "Anar" is Quenya for "Sun"... could they be ancient use-name adopted by the Firebeards who came in contact with the Quenya-fluent elves of Eregion, which were later taken to be Northern names . . .

I think you meant Narbeards there

Originally Posted by Urwen

That's great, but please talk about the more recent topics too.

Thanks for asking. Just to add, for myself, I'm never sure if I'm going to post anywhere about anything ever again . . . even moments after I post something! Or for example, what if I suddenly decide to take up piano at a late age (awesome Jason Statham reference from the film Spy).

If so, I might not have the time, even if I find something I'd like to comment on.

Gotta go at the moment anyway. There's an ice cream cone with my name on it!

[Urwen]

Well, I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI1mQdLE1bU

Evil? Terrible? I am sorry, but...haha.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Hey, I got a lot of sympathy for the Hin - and for the parents, - and I am less inclined than Hui to blame them for the destruction they unwittingly brought about. Their story makes me sad, not angry. But specifically in Dor-lomin, Turin was indeed trying to impose his own philosophy on a system with a very fragile balance, and while there is no right answer in that plight (do you proudly die fighting as a people? Or live an abased life to allow your people to perhaps persevere and see another day at the end of it) - it is not a stranger's call to make on behalf of the people who are actually suffering the consequences of either of the options. He forced their hand in a way he didn't force anyone else's hand in his long line of unlucky tribulations.

Except he isn't a stranger. He is one of them. One of the old blood, that is.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Except he isn't a stranger. He is one of them. One of the old blood, that is.

No, at that point he pretty much was. He did not share in their tribulations, he did not share in their life, he did not share in their suffering of the consequences of the choice he imposed upon them. He came, told them to basically self-destruct, and left. The reason he was able to do so is that he was still recognized as the rightful heir - and if he came to command his people that they needed to self-sacrifice for some good cause, it would be legitimate. But he uprooted their whole meager existence, the last hope they had for actually living as a people, because he found it demeaning. He did it thinking that he was helping his folk - but he did not bother to ask the actual folk what they wanted, and did not understand how they lived. Dor-lomin's occupation is, again, a situation where there is no right answer. But it was not Turin's place to make that call on behalf of people that were in essence no longer part of his life, and to whom he was a name on the horizon.

[Urwen]

He still shares their blood. Or are saying he doesn't anymore?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

He still shares their blood. Or are saying he doesn't anymore?

Their blood, not their life. *shrug*

[Urwen]

Besides, are you saying they want to live as thralls?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Besides, are you saying they want to live as thralls?

We don't have to speculate - from Children of Hurin we have their own words:

Originally Posted by Aerin

Ill though my life was, you have brought death to me with your violence.

Turin sparked off a revolt that stood zero chance of freeing his country. He directly caused the death of the woman leading the people of Dor-lomin in his absence. He doesn't even seem to do it through a misguided effort to save them - he forces a confrontation out of pride, gets angry with Brodda for insulting his mother, and lashes out.

What did the people of Dor-lomin actually want? Let's ask Asgon this time:

Originally Posted by Asgon

Many a man of arms misreads patience and quiet. She did much good among us at much cost. Her heart was not faint, and patience will break at the last.

Sounds like he wanted support and hope, not anger and despair.

Helping Dor-lomin was actually within Turin's power. He could have remade the Outlaws and directed them against the Easterlings, making the land a danger for them, drawing on his learning as a leader of Nargothrond to forge the Hadorians into a secret army. That might have worked! Killing one man and then running away wouldn't.

EDIT: We see this same story play out with Thorin Oakenshield. "The King under the Mountain has returned! Oh - all he's actually done is provoke the monster threatening us, and now everything is on fire." Aragorn, meanwhile, returns to a kingdom whose enemy is already as provoked as he can get, comes with an army and a plan, and defers to the existing Gondorian leaders until pressured by Imrahil to claim his title.

hS