TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Pitchwife]

Here and catching up. There's eight players left now, five of us and three wolves. If we mislynch again, they get a kill, it's 3:3, game over. So we really need to lynch a wolf toDay.


And we have a ghost who speaks in riddles, as befits a conjured spirit. Got to say I just love this addition to the game, and Formy is rocking the role! Which leads me to the question if we should read anything into whom among them the Dead have chosen to be their spokesperson, especially since much has been speculated about the wolves killing Formy thinking him the Seer, and how this would implicate sally.



In the light of this, sending Formy to haunt us could mean

- either the Dead agree with this reasoning (although they couldn't know for sure, the real Seer still being alive) or

- they disagree and sent him to correct us.


Can you shed any light on this question, o Formerdacil?

[Pitchwife]

A quick correction:

Originally Posted by Boro

Pitch - because he cautioned me yesterday about who I was trusting, but he himself has seemed to be pretty trusting towards me

You got it backwards. That was me cautioning myself against being too trusting towards you and sally.


Also

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Originally Posted by Not at Home
"In the Lake-town we have always elected masters from among the old and wise, and have not endured the rule of mere fighting men.

Are the Dead cautioning us not to be led astray by disputes between two loud guys, which would probably mean Boro and Legate?

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

You realise that a Wolf doing so would empower *their* bandwagon that way. And like I said, even if you were innocent, it is just plain irresponsible to vote before half of the village even showed up.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Form laid out the problem on day one lurkers getting a pass Sally has only posted like six times and only one of those had any information and included “no reads” on about half the village. Voted No One leaving exactly zero trail. Form’s death definitely implicated her especially with the ghost role(as outlined in one of my previous posts). She voted Lottie, based seemingly on her being “slightly more aggressive than usual” then Lottie is killed was she trying to off a Seer? I suspected Lottie but backed off because her last post was so emphatic I was convinced she was innocent.

Virtually nothing would dissuade me of her guilt. Even the seer reveal because it would simply be countered and then we’re down to guessing between the two anyway. That’s why the deer’s voting in post was an important part. But since I’m alone on that plan I pulled my nuclear option.

Let’s not leave out Sorimon’s Weird backwards logic vote that doubled down on Lottie following a wolf pack’s lead? Form called them both out they could’ve killed him not just for the Sally vote but to prevent him dreaming Sorimon too.

Edit: not important none of y’all gonna take the FormerForm journey with me?

[Kath]

First off, I love the Ghost role. I've just read through the thread and GhostForm is clearly having the time of his life.

This from Lottie yesterDay.

My top suspicions now are Sally, for what feels like an unnecessarily narrow focus on me leading to her not tying herself in any way to potential packmates, and Pitch, for holding his vote yesterDay long enough to let me make the decision, because if both were innocent and he knew it, that way he wouldn't dirty his hands. I get weird vibes from Lommy, Boro, and Legate, but I haven't had time to parse through that and decide what it is that gives me the bad vibe from any of them, and I think I'm just overall confused about how I feel about them rather than suspicious, if that makes sense.

Apparently I'm in the minority of thinking that the wolves are trying to kill the Seer this game, but going with that assumption then sally, Pitch, Lommy, Boro and Legate are in the mix.

sally, I'm more than happy to vote for today. My suspicions of her from yesterDay haven't changed, and given that Morsul voted sally and then basically got a 'we're not sure but it's a pretty good shout' back from GhostForm, followed by the faux 'oh woe-is-me you're all so mean' from sally in post 261 ... well.

Pitch, Lommy and Legate I haven't much looked at yet so I will spend some time on that toDay.

With Boro's behaviour yesterDay, I read it as his oft-used strategy of: "Look at me, look at me! No don't look at them, I'M the Gifted one! No really - pay attention to meeee!" Ok yes maybe I'm oversimplifying but I read post #191 and just had to smile, and it also made me feel that he's innocent. The wolves would want to draw out Gifteds, not distract from them, so I'm feeling ok about Boro at the moment.

GhostForm's post in #276 ... I'm struggling. Is it that on Day 1 everyone had a choice, and then the reference to the little gardener - could that be Greenie. A Little Green. So then lots and none at all - lots of people voted for her but none at all were wolves? We already know Hui and Lottie, who voted Greenie, are innocent, so does that speak in Legate's favour possibly?

Anyway. sally is definitely top of my suspect list, and then I'll go look at Legate, Lommy, Pitch.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Many Meetings
He then pointed out and named

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Riders of Rohan
and five you have measured ere the

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ainulindalë
before aught else was made

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rider of Rohan
day is ended! Hardy is the race of Elendil!

Ghost

I'm not sure about the interpretation of "Five you have measured" as "people who got a vote on Day 1". There were six people who got votes that Day:
- Morsul
- myself
- Hui
- Greenie
- sally
- Lottie

By eliminating Greenie as known innocent, Boro pares that down to five, but then, why not eliminate Hui and Lottie as well, who are also known innocents?

Whereas there were five people who didn't get a vote D1:
- Boro
- Kath
- Legate
- Lommy
- Sori

So there could equally be a wolf among those five.

Also Formerdacil later adds this:

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three is Company
one of the Big People

Now I don't know whether any of the Dead have read Stephen Donaldson, but the original Pitchwife in his books is a Giant, and I talked about the five non-votees in a post yesterDay. Is that it?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

A quick correction:

You got it backwards. That was me cautioning myself against being too trusting towards you and sally.

Ahh, I see, that makes more sense. Well I took the "this is about sally and Boro" as you were telling me not to trust sally based on previous feelings.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Also


Are the Dead cautioning us not to be led astray by disputes between two loud guys, which would probably mean Boro and Legate?

No, I don't think that is the suggestion from the Dead at all. Look at how Form went about the first message.

He quoted about the "Vision of Iluvatar" that was "brief and soon taken away." So, this would be referencing the tidbit of info given to the innocent dead by our ModGods:

Originally Posted by G55

To clarify, as there are so far no wolves on the DT, the information so far was not picked by wolves but merely by yours truly and BG. However, it will be picked by wolves when/if a wolf dies, in the sense that they will be given a choice of 2-3 infodrops of which they select the one to be posted on the DT to be known to the Inno-Dead.

Then in Form's Post 273:

Originally Posted by Form

Originally Posted by Ainulindalë
Then Ilúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that he smiled; and he lifted up his left hand, and a new theme began amid the storm, like and yet unlike to the former theme, and it gathered power and had new beauty.

Again referencing Iluvatar and a "new theme began" so another message. To decipher this one, as the first one, you have to look at the quotes that Form is trying to tell a story through several unconnected quotes. But all put together it contains the piece of information. To remove just 1 out and focus on that, distorts the "new theme," distorts the new message.

What that message is I'm hoping perhaps others can help, but think of it as trying to decipher the message by Form creating a story through unconnected quotes.

In the first message he quoted

"The Beginning of Days," "The First Day" "we elected and measured" So, the message was about the voting on Day 1.

Now this time, it appears to be something about another day's voting:

Originally Posted by Form

'The morning of two days ago, nigh on three days of journey! How far is the place where you parted?'

In the Lake-town we have always elected masters from among the old and wise, and have not endured the rule of mere fighting men.

I don't know if this is referring to Day 1 voting again as in "2 days ago, nigh on three." Or if he's trying to talk about 2 "phases" ago...if that makes sense? I would think if he was talking about Day 1 voting he would have chosen, the same as his first message quoting the "Beginning of Days" and "The First Day." Thus this could be something about Day 2 voting?

But I am going to need some help on this one.

Edit: crossed with Pitch and Kath

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit

"Boromir!" all the four men exclaimed.

Ghost

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Kath

With Boro's behaviour yesterDay, I read it as his oft-used strategy of: "Look at me, look at me! No don't look at them, I'M the Gifted one! No really - pay attention to meeee!" Ok yes maybe I'm oversimplifying but I read post #191 and just had to smile, and it also made me feel that he's innocent. The wolves would want to draw out Gifteds, not distract from them, so I'm feeling ok about Boro at the moment.

Same.

Originally Posted by Kath

GhostForm's post in #276 ... I'm struggling. Is it that on Day 1 everyone had a choice, and then the reference to the little gardener - could that be Greenie. A Little Green. So then lots and none at all - lots of people voted for her but none at all were wolves? We already know Hui and Lottie, who voted Greenie, are innocent, so does that speak in Legate's favour possibly?

I read the 'little gardener' as referring to Lottie, who started the game with a banter post about gardening, and who we now know was gifted.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Quote: Originally Posted by The Mirror of Galadriel
All of them, it seemed, had fared alike: each had felt that he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lay ahead, and something that he greatly desired: clear before his mind it lay, and to get it he had only to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest and the war against Sauron to others.

I think I read this as a warning not to rely too much on the Dead (leave the Quest to others) and an admonition for all of us to participate.


EDIT: deleted a line from Kath's post that was copied into mine by mistake.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Pitch has made some strange arguments against Huin but I don't believe anyone should read into this.

Because you know Huin isn’t part of your pack?

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

I know there is a deadline but if I am not prompted to vote as per the rules I read somewhere can i abstain from voting? I'd hate to see an innocent villager lynched on account of our misguided voting, who is to say that these creatures will even strike again anyway?

The rules say it. The only good thing or rather less bad thing, this post comes before Sally’s no one vote but it’s notable they’re in lockstep on day one and two vote wise.

121 Sorimon is in Sally’s no read pile

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Appologies for my scarce posts, I should have more time for this game in the coming days.




Of course, everyone can trust me! The meta gaming really gives me a free pass .



I can follow this line of thinking and it does make sense to me, Huin does seem suspicious to me but I do not know if this is just his aggressive playstyle, I feel most people would aggressivley defend their life if they can but Huin also appears (at least to me) to favour shifting blame to others.




Wouldn't it be likely the wolves will follow the first votes on day one? After the first votes wovles can more safely vote without having to hold their vote to save a fellow wolf. If someone voted with a bandwagon there is still safety in the large group.

I can't be certain of anything but I hope Huin is on our side as he seems like a powerful ally.


That said I'm just going to lock in my vote for [high]++Lottie[/highlight] as Huins most likely packmate (if he is one of them) in my mind.

Then there’s this. Just this post and vote stinks to high heaven I like nothing about it. Especially the vote following Sally’s lead seemingly despite suspecting her(Lottie) less than Huin?

I posted in 251 IF my interpretation of the ghost quotes is right Sorimon and Sally are definitely possible packmates. But this post is more speculative. In that post Kath is the last but I can’t commit to that.

So based on their three posts as well as comparing to Sally’s I find them likely packmates. The third could be Kath but again this last point is Extremely speculative.

Xed a bunch

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

By eliminating Greenie as known innocent, Boro pares that down to five, but then, why not eliminate Hui and Lottie as well, who are also known innocents?

Whereas there were five people who didn't get a vote D1:
- Boro
- Kath
- Legate
- Lommy
- Sori

So there could equally be a wolf among those five.

So, you're going to ignore Formendacil's confirmation it is those who RECEIVED votes on Day 1 in Post #255

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, you're going to ignore Formendacil's confirmation it is those who RECEIVED votes on Day 1 in Post #255

Not ignoring it but wondering whether it only confirms your approach (that the five refers to D1 voting, not yesterDay's bandwagon) our your result as well.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Kath

With Boro's behaviour yesterDay, I read it as his oft-used strategy of: "Look at me, look at me! No don't look at them, I'M the Gifted one! No really - pay attention to meeee!" Ok yes maybe I'm oversimplifying but I read post #191 and just had to smile, and it also made me feel that he's innocent. The wolves would want to draw out Gifteds, not distract from them, so I'm feeling ok about Boro at the moment.

Hahaha and now I have coffee all over myself, because I cannot deny this. Do forgive me though, I never intend to be that way, but it always happens. I start getting in my own head that everything someone says is about me.

As I've said though, I'm done steering toDay and will vote for either Morsul, sally or Pitch.

[Morsul the Dark]

Boro my only concern is FormerForm’s confirmation comes after your post and mine.

The question is if it’s confirming your interpretation or my vote.

[Morsul the Dark]

It goes
253

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Both quotes from Form!Ghost were talking about "before aught else was made" and "the First Day" So this is information about Day 1. "Those we have measured"...those who received votes on Day 1? So at least 1 wolf received a vote on Day 1.

Actually 6 people received a vote on Day 1.

Morsul
Pitch
Huey
Greenie
Sally
Lottie

But Greenie was the Day 1 lynch, so of the 5 others. At least 1 is a wolf. Huey, Lottie are now killed after Day 1. Leaving at least 1 wolf among

Morsul
Sally
Pitch

254

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

That’s probably a better interpretation. Mine would’ve been too easy.

So we’re thinking Sally or Pitch yes me too but I’m innocent. I really think this information taken with the strong possibility Form was killed as a seer...

I’ll take the plunge.

[highlight]++Sally[/highli]

255

FormerForm I think,' answered Frodo slowly, 'that it was a good guess, as far as it goes.

It’s notable Sally is in both interpretations. And while I like yours, Boro are we sure FormerForm isn’t endorsing my vote I even react to it in 256

[Pitchwife]

Awlright I completely overlooked Formerdacil's #287. Suppose that settles it, and Boro was right.

[Soriman the Whide]

Alright my vote for Lottie I think proves my innocence, I know it was a stange thing to switch my vote to Lottie over Huin. I thought that Huin was likely a wolf and if he was a wolf then lottie must be one too (sorry lottie my bad) and I felt like Huin was a stronger player to have as an ally if I was wrong.


My vote has to prove my innocence as why would a wolf waste a vote against Lottie if they planned to attack in the night?

I am very unsure of Legate and Boro and feel a bit lost on who to trust at this point. I'll be lurking for a while.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Alright my vote for Lottie I think proves my innocence, I know it was a stange thing to switch my vote to Lottie over Huin. I thought that Huin was likely a wolf and if he was a wolf then lottie must be one too (sorry lottie my bad) and I felt like Huin was a stronger player to have as an ally if I was wrong.


My vote has to prove my innocence as why would a wolf waste a vote against Lottie if they planned to attack in the night.

Because you voted pretty early and if you were successful in railroading her, you wouldn’t need to nightkill her.

I’m known for hard to follow logic but this defense is far beyond me.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Alright my vote for Lottie I think proves my innocence, I know it was a stange thing to switch my vote to Lottie over Huin. I thought that Huin was likely a wolf and if he was a wolf then lottie must be one too (sorry lottie my bad) and I felt like Huin was a stronger player to have as an ally if I was wrong.


My vote has to prove my innocence as why would a wolf waste a vote against Lottie if they planned to attack in the night?

I am very unsure of Legate and Boro and feel a bit lost on who to trust at this point. I'll be lurking for a while.

Agreed, this doesn't make any sense.

Here and reading.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Boro my only concern is FormerForm’s confirmation comes after your post and mine.

The question is if it’s confirming your interpretation or my vote.

I believe that has been answered, by FormerForm in #287

Ok, I'm going to have to start being a good guest, because people expect it of you on your birthday, but I'm also concerned with this eerie quiet. I think we have to make use of Form only being here for one day and there's still a message to decipher.

Seeing as we can ask him questions still and I'm stuck on the entire message, let's try to solve it one quote at a time.

Ghost!Form is your message in Post 276 referring to information the innocent dead have learned about Day 2 voting?

My thinking here is if you were referring to Day 1's voting you would have used the same quotes that you used in the first message. And in your 2nd quote "elected" appears again.

[Soriman the Whide]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Because you voted pretty early and if you were successful in railroading her, you wouldn’t need to nightkill her.

I’m known for hard to follow logic but this defense is far beyond me.

Wolves are likely to vote together to ensure someone they choose dies, Lottie did not die but there were two votes for our ranger Sally and myself.
I suppose this falls apart if you think the wolves would've wanted Huin over Sally.



Anyway yes I admit a slightly tongue in cheek defence could be picked apart but you gotta believe me!


Anyway Morsul I like your idea to vote togeter and play the percentages. It's our best strategy in this position.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Wolves are likely to vote together to ensure someone they choose dies, Lottie did not die but there were two votes for our ranger Sally and myself.

Exactly. Two early votes just couldn’t get the village to bite.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by The Return Journey

"A second good night, fair friends!"

Ghost

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Anyway Morsul I like your idea to vote togeter and play the percentages. It's our best strategy in this position.

Okay, I'm willing to cut Sori a lot of slack, this being their first game and all, but this is bovine faeces. Suppose for a moment you could get all of the village to agree on one person to vote, which is about as likely to happen as daisies in Mordor (for one thing, nobody's going to vote themselves. The wolves will happily agree to vote anybody who isn't one of the pack. Suppose we go through with Morsul's plan and everybody piles on his vote for sally, then if she's innocent, game over, wolf victory. How is this our best strategy in this position?
To be clear, I'm more suspicious of Morsul for suggesting such a thing in the first place than of a newbie for agreeing with it.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Okay, I'm willing to cut Sori a lot of slack, this being their first game and all, but this is bovine faeces. Suppose for a moment you could get all of the village to agree on one person to vote, which is about as likely to happen as daisies in Mordor (for one thing, nobody's going to vote themselves. The wolves will happily agree to vote anybody who isn't one of the pack. Suppose we go through with Morsul's plan and everybody piles on his vote for sally, then if she's innocent, game over, wolf victory. How is this our best strategy in this position?
To be clear, I'm more suspicious of Morsul for suggesting such a thing in the first place than of a newbie for agreeing with it.

But the main point is they agreed without voting. I think we have a wolf trying to figure out what to do. Vote for their packmate or wait for a better bandwagon.

[Kath]

This will be kind of train-of-thought, sorry.

Lommy - post 24 has Morsul as suspicious for their reaction to Hui, and Hui as suspicious for being Hui. Non-committal really. Suggests a Pitch+Legate/Hui pack due to Pitch's meta-argument about prior games. Post 47 mentions everyone, leaves everyone undecided, except maybe Pitch and Lottie with a little bit stronger suspicion. Post 49 her suspicion list has Form, Hui, Lottie, Pitch. If Lommy were a wolf, I'd be looking at Pitch as a fellow as the other three are all dead and proven innocent.

Suspicion of Lottie stays consistent into Day 2. Thinks she is letting sally off the hook, then suggests a Lottie/sally/Hui pack. If Lommy is a wolf, good way to bury a fellow between two now known to be innocents. Thinks it unlikely in post 136 that Form was killed for potential Seerishness, but if he was it either speaks to Hui's innocence or sally's guilt. In post 181 in essence 'clears' Hui, Legate, Boro, Morsul, Lottie, sally and then suspicious of me for 'easy' votes. Wants to vote me or Pitch, but would go for sally. Feel like we hadn't had a mention of Pitch for a while there, and that she's finding a way to avoid a vote for sally without avoiding a vote for sally. In post 196 mentions she would have been worried if Lottie had reached 2 votes first - quite a swing from the earlier quite high level suspicion.

In post 266 says she felt confident of Lottie's innocence. She did flip into this from post 181. Comes out gunning for Boro for orchestrating the Hui lynch, I'd like an explanation of what she means by that, given by her own admission she decided Hui was innocent based on her analysis of Form and then voted Hui anyway. Also suspicious of Morsul for voting early. Analyses Lottie's death and comes out with Pitch, sally, Morsul as possible suspects - which matches GhostForm's hinting if we've read that right.
Votes:
Hui (puts Hui into the lead with 2 votes)
Hui (makes a third tie at 2 people, others were sally and Lottie)


Pitch - post 27 no opinion on Morsul, Form, Lottie, sally. Feels good on Greenie and Boro. Some suspicion of Hui (pokey mode), Lommy (non-engagement) and then Legate (forgetting his last game). Suspicious further of Lommy in post 38 for having vague suspicions of two people who could easily become bandwagons. Decides Hui/Morsul both innocent. Questions my reasoning about the same debate. In post 54 happy with Boro, names a possible wolf pack made up of Hui, Lommy, Lottie, Kath. So almost returning the favour on Lommy. Can't decide if that makes them more or less likely to be fellows as it stands out a bit on a re-read, but then I suppose only because of the knowledge we now have. I don't know whether post 98 speaks in his favour in hindsight - choosing between Greenie and Hui, both of whom he'd largely considered innocent through the Day. Not really any benefit to a Pitchwolf pushing for one over the other, and if a wolf would have known it made no difference, but then, it made no difference, so a Pitchwolf could have gone either way anyway.

Pointed out Lottie's inconsistent voting plans in post 142 and questioned her on it. Suggests there is a wolf in Boro, Kath, Legate, Lommy, Sori. As this is half the village, it's hardly much of a stretch to think he's right! Out of those, has Kath (for focus on sally) and Legate (for suggesting not lynching someone he finds suspicious) as possibilities for voting. Would have been willing to vote Kath, Legate, Boro, Hui.

Suggests GhostForm's comments may actually have meant the people who didn't get a vote, similar to his argument yesterDay. Then says he's wrong given GhostForm's seeming to confirm Boro's version is right. If so, how does Pitch now feel about the Pitch/sally/Morsul potential choice? Ah, suspicious of Morsul in post 303.
Votes:
Hui (last, and made no difference to the lynch)
Hui (already ahead and sealed his fate, so no impact again)


Legate - post 16 points out Hui and Greenie for focusing in on Boro and pointless day 1s. It is worth noting that they were the only two to have really said anything about another person at all at this point. Then continues to focus on them in post 26, keeping up the idea that Greenie was rewording the suspicions of others for herself, and that Hui was overfocused on Boro and day 1s. Suggested a Hui/Boro pairing. Ends up suspicious of Greenie, Hui and Pitch overall in post 57. Interestingly names Pitch as Cobbler, which I know we'd thrown around during the Day a couple of times but we knew there wasn't one so if this was really how Legate was feeling about Pitch I'm surprised that didn't go anywhere.

Vote analysis in post 124 suggested Lommy, Hui, Pitch and Boro as having possibly suspicious votes. Post 137 seems to sum up to Hui and Lottie being worrisome based on their posting, and then Boro for his antics. Then backtracks on Hui due to their latest post. In post 168 thinks one of Pitch/Lottie likely to be a wolf and suggests Pitch the more likely candidate. Now we know it isn't Lottie, how do you feel about Pitch? Worried about Soriman's vote which was rather oddly reasoned. Has Pitch, Boro then maybe Hui as lynch options.
Votes:
Greenie (first vote for her 5 people in)
Hui (puts them into the lead)

Hmmm - I don't know. I think I'm being drawn into seeing a sally/Lommy/Pitch pack. sally I think is a wolf regardless of the other two, and Lommy/Pitch seemed to coincide a fair bit when I was reading through. I think that I started off with a feeling that Lommy was suspicious though (perhaps because I think sally is a wolf, and Lommy seems to be quite diligently trying to avoid making a decision there) so that may have coloured my opinions. With that said, Pitch has a voting record that is both squeaky clean and damning at the same time, and Lommy brought Hui in as a third candidate on Day 2. But then Legate really had the strongest effect on the Hui lynch there and did cross post with Lommy.

I don't know. But sally/Lommy/Pitch is where I'm at currently.

[Soriman the Whide]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

But the main point is they agreed without voting. I think we have a wolf trying to figure out what to do. Vote for their packmate or wait for a better bandwagon.

No point wasting my vote while i'm still unsure and nobody else has agreed that we should play the favourable odds by voting the same.

I'm leaning more towards Legate or Pitch but I need to re-read some of the thread, some of those legate posts are long and slippery.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Form

Originally Posted by The Return Journey
"A second good night, fair friends!"

Ahh, so it appears the information has something pertaining to the second night? Something with Lottie being killed, which I see Pitch looks right about the 4th quote in Form's riddle:

Originally Posted by Form

Originally Posted by Farewell to Lórien
'For you little gardener and lover of trees,' she said to Sam, 'I have only a small gift.'

Would be referring to Lottie, since she posted about gardening on Day 1. Any ideas on what they have to tell use about Lottie's death? Other than the obvious she was the Ranger?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by The Muster of Rohan

Naught has been seen in Harrowdale of these evil things.

Ghost

[Pitchwife]

I've had a brief look through Morsul's and sally's posts.


Morsul:

It struck me that on D1 he had Kath among his top suspects for her early vote, admitting it could have been based on her time zone but she could be using this as an easy defense.

Then toDay he casts an early vote himself and defends it saying "A wolf can’t vote first if breaks their bandwagon power." Double standard much?


He has been very vocal pushing the idea that Form was killed by a wolf pack including sally under the assumption that he was the Seer and dreamed her. If, on the other hand, the pack had killed Form to frame sally they'd want to make sure to keep mentioning how the kill pointed to her, which could be what Morsul is doing.


He also suspected Lottie yesterDay and speculated she might be packmates with sally and Hui. As we now know two of these three were innocent I'm wary of his dogged pursuit of the third.


Last not last, I'm not a fan of his plans in his first post toDay, especially not on the "let's all vote together" as above.



sally:
Nothing at all on D1. D2 she trusted Boro and myself on gut feeling, suspected Lommy (again, gut feeling) and Lottie (found her too agressive for an Ordlote), no idea about Huri, Sori and Legate.
She thought I had some great points about Lottie, found her more suspicious the more she talked and ended up voting her.


Now if sally is a wolf who was pressed for time yesterDay, piggybacking on my points against Lottie would have been an easy way to justify her vote, and also to justify going after Lottie rather than Lommy if Lommy is another wolf. Also buddying up to me.



It's a tough call. I want to suspect Morsul but how much of it is just because I often find his way of thinking weird? Overall the impression I get from him is posting what goes through his mind and confound the consequences. I want to trust sally but I can see her more easily as a sly and manipulative wolf. Blergh.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I've had a brief look through Morsul
Morsul:

Then toDay he casts an early vote himself and defends it saying "A wolf can’t vote first if breaks their bandwagon power." Double standard much?

Double standard criticism is fair except the numbers and strategy on day one va day three are vastly different.

[Soriman the Whide]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Morsul:
He has been very vocal pushing the idea that Form was killed by a wolf pack...

He also suspected Lottie yesterDay and speculated she might be packmates with sally and Hui. As we now know two of these three were innocent I'm wary of his dogged pursuit of the third.

Yes exactly, I don't think Sally should be the focus for today.
I do not believe Morsul is a wolf and think his bandwagon excuse for an early vote holds some sway when you consider the wolves will win if we get this wrong.


Edit: Are you guys calling it a crossed post when you replied without seeing the most recent reply?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Form

Ghost

Ahh, ok I take that as a no the dead's message is not about last night's kill.

Oof...I've racked my brain too much on this so going to let it be for now and think on the task at hand.

Originally Posted by Pitch

It's a tough call. I want to suspect Morsul but how much of it is just because I often find his way of thinking weird? Overall the impression I get from him is posting what goes through his mind and confound the consequences. I want to trust sally but I can see her more easily as a sly and manipulative wolf. Blergh.

I see Morsul's early vote as a hasty plunge, without knowing what else could be learned from today. It's not something I would do, but Morsul isn't me, so is it something a hasty Wolf!Morsul would do?

I'm more worried of sally's reaction, which looked like a concession and resignation that she will be lynched today. I just can't see an innocent sally reacting that way, even one that has been very busy so far, because she would know that if she is innocent and lynched, without the Ranger, it's over.

Particularly with she stated she was "inclined to believe Morsul is a misguided innocent" which means, an innocent sally *should* have started suspecting Pitch. But she does not do this, does not say anything about Pitch, just seemed resigned to her fate and tried to guilt trip us into thinking it would be too obvious to kill Form Night 1 if she was a wolf.

This could mean, Morsul is a wolf who voted for his mate sally, because there was already a plan to sacrifice herself if she was in trouble today. Although Morsul's hasty vote doesn't seem to be wolf-on-wolf, and if they are both wolves, why would Morsul not vote for Pitch? *seconded the bleurgh*

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Edit: Are you guys calling it a crossed post when you replied without seeing the most recent reply?

Yes.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Yes exactly, I don't think Sally should be the focus for today.

At least not the exclusive focus, and concentrating only on the trio implied by the Ghost (sally, Morsul, me) lets too many people sail under the radar unquestioned.

I can see sally and Lommy being in a pack, as Kath suggests (though obviously not with me).

I think I can also see a tandem between Kath and Morsul - Kath brought up the idea that Form's death points to sally, and Morsul keeps pushing it, also from the above trio Kath picks me and sally as her wolf choices but says nothing (as far as I see) about Morsul.


Actually, as per Form's message we don't know whether there were one or more werewolves among the "five you have measured", do we?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by The Council of Elrond

'We know not for certain,' answered Elrond sadly.

Ghost

[satansaloser2005]

For Boro, I wasn't resigned so much as in a lot of pain and didn't want to lash out unnecessarily, so I went out of my way not to blame Morsul.

I still think Morsul is a misguided innocent, but that misguided vote will cost us the game. Don't make his mistake. Vote for almost literally anyone else.

(AKA Here I am again.)

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lommy #266

First off: feeling really bad about the Huin lynch, on multiple levels. I can't believe I noticed Form's death made him more likely innocent and ignored that

Reading this, I didn't rememnber what Lommy is talking about, so I went back and found this:

Originally Posted by Lommy #136

#61 argues for Hui's innocence while acknowledging he might be making a terrible mistake. This makes Hui look a bit better to me - I guess the wolves could have interpreted this post as seer!Form defending his known innocent?

But how would it have occurred to Lommy that the wolves thought Form was defending a dreamed innocent (ergo making Hui look better) if she didn't know that Hui was innocent to begin with?

[satansaloser2005]

Not doing quote yet, but a list for now. Obviously I was wrong about Lottie, and we have more information now, so I've done a little rearranging. Sticking with two categories since it's later in the Day.

Would vote....
Kath
Legate
Lommy
Sori

Wouldn't vote....
Boro
Morsul
Pitch

Quotes incoming.

[Pitchwife]

OK, sally, if I understand you right then you, Boro and Morsul are all innocent, as well as myself (which I knew already). Of course I'd be happy to believe that.

But then what of the message of the Dead that seems to say one of you, Morsul and me is a wolf? Do the Dead lie?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Double standard criticism is fair except the numbers and strategy on day one va day three are vastly different.

Yes, and an early vote toDay is much more dangerous than an early vote on D1. You realise if the wolves all pile on your vote and sally is first to get 4 votes, then even if the rest of us all vote a wolf it's still game over in case she's innocent, right?