Lonely Star: Fanfiction/RPG discussion - Page 7 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Child of the 7th Age · 09-30-2002, 01:57 PM

Let me do the Ancalimon/Mithadan scene later tonight, if that is ok--probably by 1am central time. It will be a set-up scene only--telling them the info and having them go to you. I assume you'll do the actual discussion. Tell me if that's wrong.

I am also going to work in a discussion with Ancalimon about the history of the wyrm, and why she is so attached to the children. (This is a tear jerker.) If you see any problem with any of the information I give, let me know and I'll change it. It shouldn't affect anything in the story itself. It does,however, touch on the history of dragons and may not be accepted "canon", i.e. I assume that wyrms were created in the same way as other creatures, and then there was a corruption by Morgoth. Angara is like Beagle's Last Unicorn. She is the only one of the originals left.

I will pm you with more details and a copy to Bird.

sharon

[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

piosenniel · 09-30-2002, 02:27 PM

Sounds good to me! I have to work again this evening - will be back @ midnight, Pacific Time.

See you later. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

GreatWarg · 09-30-2002, 07:43 PM

* Khelek wanders back into the thread, cursing community service * And no, he isn't a delinquent. He's an Elf in high school and wants to go to a good college.

Okay, it seems you guys are going so fast I can't keep up! I'll just pop in more often in in-between times.

It doesn't seem like Khelek has much to do, unless you count being annoyed by little hobbit lads and lasses and getting them out of trouble one way or another. Thank Elbereth Angara's doing most of the work! I don't think Khelek's going to be able to baby-sit. Can't stand little kids. Wonder how Gandalf does it? I'll pop back in later tonight or tomorrow and post what I can. In the meantime, if Khelek gets lost in community service, I don't mind if you use him if you need him. Just don't make him baby-sit for too long before he cracks. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

piosenniel · 10-01-2002, 10:31 AM

Khelek

I spent 13 years mentoring a group of young women through various levels of community service - Colleges and scholarship committees were very impressed with that level of commitment shown on their applications. Workplaces also tended to look more favorably on applicants who have shown they can commit and follow through on tasks and can be fairly self directed.

Keep up the good work and keep good documentation on what you do. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

What would you like Khelek to be doing on the Star? If you like, I can write him in more fully to some of the scenes. I had held back on doing that since you were back - but will do it if it is ok with you! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Rose Cotton · 10-01-2002, 01:59 PM

CHILD- Rose wants to go with Daisy. I'm not to sure why you and I can't so you'll have to be the one to tell Rose why she can't go. Unless of corse someone else knows.

piosenniel · 10-01-2002, 09:21 PM

ROSE

Please check your email. I need a girl hobbit to befriend Daisy at the caverns - if you will write her part while I'm doing the 'Daisy' part, it would help me out of having to be two characters again!

Sometimes I feel a little schizophrenic writing for this story! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Rose Cotton · 10-02-2002, 01:55 PM

Pio- I'm working up that charicter right now. Thanks a bunch!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

piosenniel · 10-02-2002, 02:04 PM

*Pio wipes her brow and sighs gratefully*

Thanks, Rose!! Make her as fun as you can! Looking forward to meeting her as Daisy!

piosenniel · 10-03-2002, 01:18 AM

We are now to the day when Daisy leaves for the caverns. (They will leave in the late evening, so that it will be night by the time they are going up the river.

9 days ago, story time, the Star arrived in the waters off Númenor.

10 days ago, story time, the Númenorean ships launched their voyage to Tol Eressëa.

in 12 days, story time, the Teleri will arrive.

Daisy's adventure must be more or less completed in this 12 day time period (I am assuming we will rescue her when we pick up the hobbits?!) - the Star and the Teleri can't afford to hang about for Gorthaur to find them. The Star needs to pull out to sea, farther south, in anticipation of their arrival & in order to keep them somewhat hidden. We should launch the foray upriver the very late evening of the day after they arrive. It will give us time to inform them fully of our plans and what they will need to do.

Child of the 7th Age · 10-03-2002, 06:51 PM

Important Notice

Please read Cami's post concerning the dream quilt. This will be given as a present to Piosenniel's twins by everyone on the Star, assuming we come out of this alive.

Please send me a pm or post on this thread. Identify your best memory/scene from the story which you wish to have represented as your character's on the quilt. If you have any ideas for other shared characters like Ancalmon or Angara, you are also welcome to make suggestions on those.

Thank you.

Cami, head of the dream quilt committee

piosenniel · 10-03-2002, 08:46 PM

*blushes*

Awwwwww!!!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Child of the 7th Age · 10-03-2002, 10:31 PM

Regarding the secret history of hobbits...

Clyde Kilby, an American professor, spent the summer of 1965 with JRRT, acting as an editorial assistant for the manuscripts of Silm. In his book Tolkien and the Silmarils which is largely a personal memoire, he noted the following:

Quote:

A good many readers believe that the Shire is England or a portion of England, and this Tolkien confirmed when I once asked him if there were Hobbits in the earlier ages. He plainly answered that there were none because Hobbits were English, a remark which both confirms geograpical delineations and has wide temporal implications.

In other words, Tolkien was implying that, to have hobbits, England must intrude into the tales.

There is an interesting sidelight on this. In the early volumes of HoMe (BoLT 1 & 2, Shaping of Middle-earth, The Lost Road), there are many references to a "framing device" which JRRT used to present his story: specifically using Eriol or Aelfwine, who were seen as historical English figures and also Elf-friends, as the narrators for the tales. Additionally, the isle of England itself was located within the tale. This type of framing device was used by JRRT from 1916 through at least 1938; the figure of the English narrator persisted off and on down through the 1950s.

Where was this mythical England of the Silm? For the first few years, Tolkien placed it on the isle of Tol Eressea. However, by the early 1920s, he'd changed his mind and decided that England was the shattered remains left over from the land of Beleriand after the flood. Specifically, England was identified with one of the few remaining isles called Leithian.

I read this last night, and flew out of my chair. For, of course, in our story, the hobbits are also stationed on an island which is made up of the shattered remains of Beleriand. Our own hobbits spent about 200 years travelling into Beleriand and living in Gondolin; they spent another 60 years or so in the prisons of Numenor. But the bulk of time--almost 3,300 years--was spent on that shattered splinter of Beleriand which Tolkien himself once suggested might be England.

Mith or Pio, did you see this association when we first put the hobbits there? (I didn't remember any of this then.)

I am tempted to change the name of Tol Fuin to Leithian, but few would understand what this implied.

sharon

piosenniel · 10-04-2002, 12:54 AM

No, I didn't realize this - I was simply working from Fonstad's maps of the 1st and 2nd ages when I was looking for places to place the hobbits.

I do remember reading this article at that time also, but again I was not looking for references to England in what we were writing: Leithian/England

mark12_30 · 10-04-2002, 03:13 AM

Hi All,
Cami has finished the edits for Kali's reunion with his cousins. In case you'd like to read them the two edited posts are:
Second page: September 20, 2002 02:35 PM, and September 20, 2002 05:02 PM

For the secod post, the first section is the one that has been edited. It's a long post.

--Helen

ps. Regarding Tol Fuin, I was reading in Lay of Leithian, and Taur Nu Fuin is where Sauron (the werewolf wizard Tun) had one of his strongholds-- is that the same as the island Tol Fuin? I can't find either in Fonstadt's atlas, except Tol Fuin off of Ered Luin in the third age. Taur Nu Fuin is equated to Dorthonion in the index though. I have to go and correct a couple of posts where I confused the two.

Also, Pio/Rose: are you expecting interaction between Daisy & Phura's crowd?

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 10:14 AM

Pio, Mithadan, Rose, Khelek --

Please remember to tell me what image you want on the quilt. Since this is a "present" to Mith and Pio, you can assume that there will be a picture of the happy couple and their two babies at the very top. Therefore,Mithadan & Pio feel free to chose something different.

Rescue of Daisy in the tombs:

Kali has requested that he be part of any scene that involves the rescue of Daisy. He doesn't have to go in singlehandedly, but would like to play an important role in punishing the baddies and sweeping Daisy off her feet.

Ages of young hobbits:

At earlier points in the story, I believe that we postulated that Kali and Daisy were teens. From the general thrust of the story, the responsibility being heaped on Daisy, and the obvious affection between Kali and Daisy, I think they should probably be mid-tweens.

***Mithadan*** · 10-04-2002, 11:13 AM

Re quilt: here's mine, courtesy of Birdland.

Quote:

Then Mithadan and the Elven folk stepped forward, an raised a new sail upon the mast. And Lo! the company beheld a glowing 6-pointed star, surrounded by an arc of Elven Blue with star-rays of mithril, and the four compass points surrounding all. The wind filled the sail and the star danced. "The Lonely Star" responded with a leap like a deer. The journey had begun.

mark12_30 · 10-04-2002, 12:14 PM

Kali & Daisy, tweens? Do we have to grow them up so fast?

I thought of this as the hobbit-equivalent of the grammar-school starry-eyed crush that matures into friendhsip, lasts til adulthood and eventually turns into romance and then marriage, over a decade and a half. The smalltown kind of thing.

Kali can still go blazing to the rescue.

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 03:36 PM

Helen --

But could you send a 16-year-old to spy in the tombs at the base of Eru's Mount? Remember, guards are everywhere and Sauron himself has a residence on top. I am looking as I type at my 14-year-old son, and I'm afraid my answer would be "no". The Star's situation isn't that desperate. LOL. Not that my son or Daisy wouldn't be successful They'd be more successful than I would be, but could we morally send a young person into such a dire situation. I would feel terribly guilty if anything happened.

My impression always was that hobbits let kids be kids. Wouldn't they have tried to protect a teen rather than purposely sending him/her into such danger.

sharon

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30 · 10-04-2002, 03:50 PM

...and you call me a softie! I love you for it.

But Sharon, we send 18 year-olds into combat all the time. Sailors constantly amaze me; baby-faced hormones with feet, and we ask them to sail (and die) for us. And they do.

In our case, the dramatic effect is heightened because she is so young. She's a needed spy, just like Rose was. You sent Rose into a similar situation.

You write that the Star's situation isn't that desperate. No-- but the hobbits' situation is! They disappear every night. But notice only the adults disappear; no children are being sacrificed. For that matter, Daisy would be safer as a sixteen-year-old!

Anyway, you've either got to edit the entire story and grow them both up, throughout, or you've got to edit that last post where Kali says goodbye-- they both mature ten years overnight. And the task of growing Daisy and Kali up through the entire story will change a LOT. You're a busy lady already.

I vote, keep her young. Eighteen if you must, but sixteen works best, I think. She won't be sacrificed at sixteen.

Rose Cotton · 10-04-2002, 03:52 PM

What about me? Should we make Rose a tween then? Right now she's like 18 or something like that.

Oh, and I'm trying to think of somthing for my part of the quilt. It may take me awhile.

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ]

mark12_30 · 10-04-2002, 03:54 PM

Egads, Rose. No! Be yourself!

Are we going to rewrite the whole story all over again?? Sanity check??

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 04:07 PM

Rose and Helen --

Yes, we sent Rose, but remember how Cami tried to hide from her that she was going? Cami tried to sneak off so Rose wouldn't know. Cami did not want an 18-year old to end up in a prison camp. Resourceful Rose managed to "sneak" in to Cami's dismay. (and then did a great job!)

This world sends 18-year olds and even younger to war which is a very sad thing. But would the Shire have done this? Hobbits generally didn't even marry till their early 30s.

And the two hobbit heroes were 50 years old! Frodo may have looked 33 because of the Ring but he had 50 years of experience under his belt. And Bilbo was an honest 50 when he left. I don't know too many other fantasy books with 50 year old heroes!

And hobbits don't live that much longer than we do. Leaving aside Bilbo, I think the average hobbit age at death was 90.

You know hobbits also had "late" childbirh. Take a look at the appendix. Many hobbit women had children in their late 40s and Rose Cotton had children in her late 50s if you can believe it. Rose Cotton was born in 1384, and her son Tom in 1442. Whoa, that's a record.

Having grumbled about this, I am willing to be flexible if others think there is a problem with a 25-year old Daisy.
sharon

piosenniel · 10-04-2002, 04:59 PM

Just reviewing the relationship that Daisy and Pio have, I would say that she would be @ 18 at the most.

On the other hand - we are working with hobbrim traditions when we think of Kali and Daisy together - so there is no reason to think they aren't somewhat different from hobbits from the Shire.

If Daisy is 18 - do you want to make Kali,say, 20?

This could be a shade more serious than a teenage crush and blush.

Let me know, since I'll be writing for Daisy. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'll adjust Anemone's age upward, too, if we adjust Daisy's.

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Rose Cotton · 10-04-2002, 05:43 PM

Now I know what I want my part to be. Somthing about when Rose makes the desition to go with Cami instead of back to the Star.

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 05:50 PM

Pio, Rose, Helen---

Ach, I can see it is unanimous. Cami knows when the writing is on the wall.

Cami raises hands and surrenders. Ok, Ok, but Helen, let's make it 18. Cami is feeling very guilty for sending her upriver as it is. Everytime I look at my 15 year old, I shudder. (No, he's a nice kid. I just don't want him to be sent to a prison where he has to spy!)

I am going back and editing my own posts, as I truly think Cami might lose sleep over this issue. It doesn't make sense for her to oppose having Rose go to Beleriand when she herself will be there, if she blithely sends Daisy to Numenor without batting an eye. So if no one objects, I'm going to make Cami just a little guilty (athough she'll be glad that the level-headed Bird is there.)

sharon

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 05:53 PM

Rose -- that's a good idea. No one else has done anything about the hobbit/hobbrim choosing. What do you think the quilt picture should look like?

sharon

PS That makes you and Daisy the same age.

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 05:57 PM

Pio --

I think the Daisy/Kali relationship would be quite "young". After all hobbits don't marry till 33, and I think that is probably true of both kin. Still, because Daisy hasn't had a lot of good relationships or relatives who care for her, Kali really means a lot to her.

When I think of their relationship, I think of the scene late in LotR when Sam thinks back on going swimming with Rose and her brothers at the swimming hole in the Shire. Just like Rose eventually ends up with Sam, Daisy will probably end up with Kali in the distant future. But that's still far away.

sharon

piosenniel · 10-04-2002, 06:14 PM

SHARON

How old is Kali?

It may be a young relationship with respect to Daisy, but are we still working with the same customs for the hobbrim - especially the hobbrim like Kali whose fewer numbers and possibly lesser # of years due to hardship might make waiting so long not a feasible idea.

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel · 10-04-2002, 06:21 PM

ROSE

Tell me a little about Anemone, the character you'll be playing in the cave-prison. I know she'll be 18, the same age as Daisy - but what else can you tell me about her? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Child of the 7th Age · 10-04-2002, 06:53 PM

Pio--

The same age perhaps??? No more than 20.

Remember that the fertility period is relative. If Rose Cotton had a baby at 58, that means she had about 25 child-bearing years. That would be like someone today getting married and having children every two years from 15-40 years old!

I hate to make the hobbits that different from the hobbrim. They're already pretty different due to body, type of dwelling, sea vrs land, etc. You need some common things to make sure they are still the same people and culture.

Of course, the big thing to remember is that there's going to be hundreds of new hobbrim after the choosing. And where they're going, they don't have to worry about any enemies, etc. Their island is, in effect, invisible to man. That's a whole lot different than the situation in the Anduin. They're the ones who need to worry about fertility! (Just look at all the nasties in The Gathering who aren't keen on hobbits.)

sharon

mark12_30 · 10-04-2002, 07:29 PM

Quote:

And the two hobbit heroes were 50 years old! Frodo may have looked 33 because of the Ring but he had 50 years of experience under his belt. And Bilbo was an honest 50 when he left. I don't know too many other fantasy books with 50 year old heroes!

LOL!! Sharon, darling, Frodo and Bilbo correspond to YOU!! You're the packleader. Rose and Daisy are your Merry, Sam, and Pippin. Pippin was a "ripe old" tween, remember?

But all right. Eighteen. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

piosenniel · 10-04-2002, 11:15 PM

Ondolindë Design - for Quilt

Quote:

She passed on then and entered the Square, making her way at last to the great fountain which stood before the Tower of the King. It was the heart of the Square, and the most beautiful and beloved of all the fountains in the city. Natural rock rose high in the air and from it fell many streams of pure water, singing their way down the craggy sides to fill the clear, deep basin at its foot. Pio knelt before it, trailing her fingers in the pool and wept, her tears mingling with the waters in the basin. Passerbys thought her overcome by the beauty of their creation, but it was for them that her tears flowed.

This is the picture Pio would like on the quilt.

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Bêthberry · 10-05-2002, 04:24 AM

Quote:

This will be given as a present to Piosenniel's twins by everyone on the Star

Just Pio's? Has the blackguard of a father absconded already? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Rose Cotton · 10-05-2002, 05:31 AM

Ya, Pippin was what? I think he said like 28 or 29 or somthing like that. We have a younger group. That's alright.

mark12_30 · 10-05-2002, 10:09 AM

Pio and Rose,

I have one of those odd requests... Can we hide from Phura and Gamba that Bird is a shapechanger? I've arranged for Phura and Gamba not to be near the water when Daisy arrives, so that's covered, and Loremaster is determined to hide Bird's identity from most of the hobbits, but especially from Phura (because Loremaster is wise...) I'm planning on Loremaster being very protective of Daisy's identity and forbidding the boys to pry. They will of course be curious because she's new and mysterious. But if we can prevent Phura and Gamba from seeing Bird morph in public (especially into her human form) or show her human form, until they are all back on the Star, I would like to do that if possible. They can see a dragon, a dolphin, a bird, and a bug, and think that Daisy has four different friends. Just not the lady-form, and if she has to morph, Phura and Gamba can be elsewhere at the time and the Loremaster can swear everybody to silence. He knows he doesn't want Phura to know about Bird. He's trying to hide her from him, purposefully.

Is all this too crazy? If it's too much, then I will figure out how to adjust the scene I was going to do.

Regards, --Helen

Child of the 7th Age · 10-05-2002, 10:20 AM

Helen --

Quote:

Phura sat up, and studied the children. There were five now. Two more boys had joined them-- little Ban, four years old, and tiny little Maura, who could barely speak.

Help! How many of these will be hobbits and hobbrim? Cami is now envisioning walking about the Third Age like a mother duck with her dutiful brood waddling behind!

"Tiny little Maura, who could barely speak" ------You are the sneaky one. How could Cami resist little Maura?

Please advise as to future fate of these children.

sharon

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

mark12_30 · 10-05-2002, 10:49 AM

Sharon,

Kesha will follow Phura into Hobbrim-ness.

As for the rest of them: Gamba, Asta, Roka, Ban, and little Maura-- Cami, you da MOM.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Point 1: if Gamba can handle them now, they must be managable. And you know lots and lots of lullabyes by now.

Point 2 is, you're the one that saddled poor Lindo with TWENTY-TWO howling, hungry babies. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

(I **won't** say vengeance is sweet. I won't. I'll be nice. Yes. Very very very nice.)

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

--Helen

piosenniel · 10-05-2002, 11:18 AM

BETHBERRY

*Pio draws her blade and places it against Bb's carotid*

apologize to papa!

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

piosenniel · 10-05-2002, 11:33 AM

SHARON

*chokes on her morning coffee*

Quote:

Daisy had looked even smaller and younger than when Cami had seen her before.

Yes, by at least 7 years or so!!!

Bêthberry · 10-05-2002, 01:14 PM

*staring Pio in the eye and unflinching*

'Twas Cami who omitted papa. I drew a logical conclusion. Take your umbrage to her and unhand me, Elf.

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

09-30-2002, 01:57 PM	#241
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Let me do the Ancalimon/Mithadan scene later tonight, if that is ok--probably by 1am central time. It will be a set-up scene only--telling them the info and having them go to you. I assume you'll do the actual discussion. Tell me if that's wrong. I am also going to work in a discussion with Ancalimon about the history of the wyrm, and why she is so attached to the children. (This is a tear jerker.) If you see any problem with any of the information I give, let me know and I'll change it. It shouldn't affect anything in the story itself. It does,however, touch on the history of dragons and may not be accepted "canon", i.e. I assume that wyrms were created in the same way as other creatures, and then there was a corruption by Morgoth. Angara is like Beagle's Last Unicorn. She is the only one of the originals left. I will pm you with more details and a copy to Bird. sharon [ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

09-30-2002, 02:27 PM	#242
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Sounds good to me! I have to work again this evening - will be back @ midnight, Pacific Time. See you later. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

09-30-2002, 07:43 PM	#243
GreatWarg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: East of the Misty Mountains Posts: 339	* Khelek wanders back into the thread, cursing community service * And no, he isn't a delinquent. He's an Elf in high school and wants to go to a good college. Okay, it seems you guys are going so fast I can't keep up! I'll just pop in more often in in-between times. It doesn't seem like Khelek has much to do, unless you count being annoyed by little hobbit lads and lasses and getting them out of trouble one way or another. Thank Elbereth Angara's doing most of the work! I don't think Khelek's going to be able to baby-sit. Can't stand little kids. Wonder how Gandalf does it? I'll pop back in later tonight or tomorrow and post what I can. In the meantime, if Khelek gets lost in community service, I don't mind if you use him if you need him. Just don't make him baby-sit for too long before he cracks. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "What shall we do, what shall we do!" he cried. "Escaping goblins to be caught be wolves!"

10-01-2002, 10:31 AM	#244
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Khelek I spent 13 years mentoring a group of young women through various levels of community service - Colleges and scholarship committees were very impressed with that level of commitment shown on their applications. Workplaces also tended to look more favorably on applicants who have shown they can commit and follow through on tasks and can be fairly self directed. Keep up the good work and keep good documentation on what you do. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] What would you like Khelek to be doing on the Star? If you like, I can write him in more fully to some of the scenes. I had held back on doing that since you were back - but will do it if it is ok with you! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-01-2002, 01:59 PM	#245
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	CHILD- Rose wants to go with Daisy. I'm not to sure why you and I can't so you'll have to be the one to tell Rose why she can't go. Unless of corse someone else knows. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-01-2002, 09:21 PM	#246
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	ROSE Please check your email. I need a girl hobbit to befriend Daisy at the caverns - if you will write her part while I'm doing the 'Daisy' part, it would help me out of having to be two characters again! Sometimes I feel a little schizophrenic writing for this story! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-02-2002, 01:55 PM	#247
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Pio- I'm working up that charicter right now. Thanks a bunch!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-02-2002, 02:04 PM	#248
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Pio wipes her brow and sighs gratefully Thanks, Rose!! Make her as fun as you can! Looking forward to meeting her as Daisy! __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-03-2002, 01:18 AM	#249
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	We are now to the day when Daisy leaves for the caverns. (They will leave in the late evening, so that it will be night by the time they are going up the river. 9 days ago, story time, the Star arrived in the waters off Númenor. 10 days ago, story time, the Númenorean ships launched their voyage to Tol Eressëa. in 12 days, story time, the Teleri will arrive. Daisy's adventure must be more or less completed in this 12 day time period (I am assuming we will rescue her when we pick up the hobbits?!) - the Star and the Teleri can't afford to hang about for Gorthaur to find them. The Star needs to pull out to sea, farther south, in anticipation of their arrival & in order to keep them somewhat hidden. We should launch the foray upriver the very late evening of the day after they arrive. It will give us time to inform them fully of our plans and what they will need to do. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-03-2002, 06:51 PM	#250
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Important Notice Please read Cami's post concerning the dream quilt. This will be given as a present to Piosenniel's twins by everyone on the Star, assuming we come out of this alive. Please send me a pm or post on this thread. Identify your best memory/scene from the story which you wish to have represented as your character's on the quilt. If you have any ideas for other shared characters like Ancalmon or Angara, you are also welcome to make suggestions on those. Thank you. Cami, head of the dream quilt committee __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-03-2002, 08:46 PM	#251
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	blushes Awwwwww!!!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-04-2002, 12:54 AM	#253
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	No, I didn't realize this - I was simply working from Fonstad's maps of the 1st and 2nd ages when I was looking for places to place the hobbits. I do remember reading this article at that time also, but again I was not looking for references to England in what we were writing: Leithian/England __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-04-2002, 03:13 AM	#254
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Hi All, Cami has finished the edits for Kali's reunion with his cousins. In case you'd like to read them the two edited posts are: Second page: September 20, 2002 02:35 PM, and September 20, 2002 05:02 PM For the secod post, the first section is the one that has been edited. It's a long post. --Helen ps. Regarding Tol Fuin, I was reading in Lay of Leithian, and Taur Nu Fuin is where Sauron (the werewolf wizard Tun) had one of his strongholds-- is that the same as the island Tol Fuin? I can't find either in Fonstadt's atlas, except Tol Fuin off of Ered Luin in the third age. Taur Nu Fuin is equated to Dorthonion in the index though. I have to go and correct a couple of posts where I confused the two. Also, Pio/Rose: are you expecting interaction between Daisy & Phura's crowd? [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-04-2002, 10:14 AM	#255
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Pio, Mithadan, Rose, Khelek -- Please remember to tell me what image you want on the quilt. Since this is a "present" to Mith and Pio, you can assume that there will be a picture of the happy couple and their two babies at the very top. Therefore,Mithadan & Pio feel free to chose something different. Rescue of Daisy in the tombs: Kali has requested that he be part of any scene that involves the rescue of Daisy. He doesn't have to go in singlehandedly, but would like to play an important role in punishing the baddies and sweeping Daisy off her feet. Ages of young hobbits: At earlier points in the story, I believe that we postulated that Kali and Daisy were teens. From the general thrust of the story, the responsibility being heaped on Daisy, and the obvious affection between Kali and Daisy, I think they should probably be mid-tweens. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-04-2002, 12:14 PM	#257
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Kali & Daisy, tweens? Do we have to grow them up so fast? I thought of this as the hobbit-equivalent of the grammar-school starry-eyed crush that matures into friendhsip, lasts til adulthood and eventually turns into romance and then marriage, over a decade and a half. The smalltown kind of thing. Kali can still go blazing to the rescue. [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: mark12_30 ] __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-04-2002, 03:36 PM	#258
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Helen -- But could you send a 16-year-old to spy in the tombs at the base of Eru's Mount? Remember, guards are everywhere and Sauron himself has a residence on top. I am looking as I type at my 14-year-old son, and I'm afraid my answer would be "no". The Star's situation isn't that desperate. LOL. Not that my son or Daisy wouldn't be successful They'd be more successful than I would be, but could we morally send a young person into such a dire situation. I would feel terribly guilty if anything happened. My impression always was that hobbits let kids be kids. Wouldn't they have tried to protect a teen rather than purposely sending him/her into such danger. sharon [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-04-2002, 03:50 PM	#259
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	...and you call me a softie! I love you for it. But Sharon, we send 18 year-olds into combat all the time. Sailors constantly amaze me; baby-faced hormones with feet, and we ask them to sail (and die) for us. And they do. In our case, the dramatic effect is heightened because she is so young. She's a needed spy, just like Rose was. You sent Rose into a similar situation. You write that the Star's situation isn't that desperate. No-- but the hobbits' situation is! They disappear every night. But notice only the adults disappear; no children are being sacrificed. For that matter, Daisy would be safer as a sixteen-year-old! Anyway, you've either got to edit the entire story and grow them both up, throughout, or you've got to edit that last post where Kali says goodbye-- they both mature ten years overnight. And the task of growing Daisy and Kali up through the entire story will change a LOT. You're a busy lady already. I vote, keep her young. Eighteen if you must, but sixteen works best, I think. She won't be sacrificed at sixteen. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-04-2002, 03:52 PM	#260
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	What about me? Should we make Rose a tween then? Right now she's like 18 or something like that. Oh, and I'm trying to think of somthing for my part of the quilt. It may take me awhile. [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ] __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-04-2002, 03:54 PM	#261
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Egads, Rose. No! Be yourself! Are we going to rewrite the whole story all over again?? Sanity check?? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-04-2002, 04:07 PM	#262
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Rose and Helen -- Yes, we sent Rose, but remember how Cami tried to hide from her that she was going? Cami tried to sneak off so Rose wouldn't know. Cami did not want an 18-year old to end up in a prison camp. Resourceful Rose managed to "sneak" in to Cami's dismay. (and then did a great job!) This world sends 18-year olds and even younger to war which is a very sad thing. But would the Shire have done this? Hobbits generally didn't even marry till their early 30s. And the two hobbit heroes were 50 years old! Frodo may have looked 33 because of the Ring but he had 50 years of experience under his belt. And Bilbo was an honest 50 when he left. I don't know too many other fantasy books with 50 year old heroes! And hobbits don't live that much longer than we do. Leaving aside Bilbo, I think the average hobbit age at death was 90. You know hobbits also had "late" childbirh. Take a look at the appendix. Many hobbit women had children in their late 40s and Rose Cotton had children in her late 50s if you can believe it. Rose Cotton was born in 1384, and her son Tom in 1442. Whoa, that's a record. Having grumbled about this, I am willing to be flexible if others think there is a problem with a 25-year old Daisy. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-04-2002, 04:59 PM	#263
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Just reviewing the relationship that Daisy and Pio have, I would say that she would be @ 18 at the most. On the other hand - we are working with hobbrim traditions when we think of Kali and Daisy together - so there is no reason to think they aren't somewhat different from hobbits from the Shire. If Daisy is 18 - do you want to make Kali,say, 20? This could be a shade more serious than a teenage crush and blush. Let me know, since I'll be writing for Daisy. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I'll adjust Anemone's age upward, too, if we adjust Daisy's. [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-04-2002, 05:43 PM	#264
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Now I know what I want my part to be. Somthing about when Rose makes the desition to go with Cami instead of back to the Star. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-04-2002, 05:50 PM	#265
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Pio, Rose, Helen--- Ach, I can see it is unanimous. Cami knows when the writing is on the wall. Cami raises hands and surrenders. Ok, Ok, but Helen, let's make it 18. Cami is feeling very guilty for sending her upriver as it is. Everytime I look at my 15 year old, I shudder. (No, he's a nice kid. I just don't want him to be sent to a prison where he has to spy!) I am going back and editing my own posts, as I truly think Cami might lose sleep over this issue. It doesn't make sense for her to oppose having Rose go to Beleriand when she herself will be there, if she blithely sends Daisy to Numenor without batting an eye. So if no one objects, I'm going to make Cami just a little guilty (athough she'll be glad that the level-headed Bird is there.) sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-04-2002, 05:53 PM	#266
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Rose -- that's a good idea. No one else has done anything about the hobbit/hobbrim choosing. What do you think the quilt picture should look like? sharon PS That makes you and Daisy the same age. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-04-2002, 05:57 PM	#267
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Pio -- I think the Daisy/Kali relationship would be quite "young". After all hobbits don't marry till 33, and I think that is probably true of both kin. Still, because Daisy hasn't had a lot of good relationships or relatives who care for her, Kali really means a lot to her. When I think of their relationship, I think of the scene late in LotR when Sam thinks back on going swimming with Rose and her brothers at the swimming hole in the Shire. Just like Rose eventually ends up with Sam, Daisy will probably end up with Kali in the distant future. But that's still far away. sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-04-2002, 06:14 PM	#268
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	SHARON How old is Kali? It may be a young relationship with respect to Daisy, but are we still working with the same customs for the hobbrim - especially the hobbrim like Kali whose fewer numbers and possibly lesser # of years due to hardship might make waiting so long not a feasible idea. [ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-04-2002, 06:21 PM	#269
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	ROSE Tell me a little about Anemone, the character you'll be playing in the cave-prison. I know she'll be 18, the same age as Daisy - but what else can you tell me about her? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-04-2002, 06:53 PM	#270
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Pio-- The same age perhaps??? No more than 20. Remember that the fertility period is relative. If Rose Cotton had a baby at 58, that means she had about 25 child-bearing years. That would be like someone today getting married and having children every two years from 15-40 years old! I hate to make the hobbits that different from the hobbrim. They're already pretty different due to body, type of dwelling, sea vrs land, etc. You need some common things to make sure they are still the same people and culture. Of course, the big thing to remember is that there's going to be hundreds of new hobbrim after the choosing. And where they're going, they don't have to worry about any enemies, etc. Their island is, in effect, invisible to man. That's a whole lot different than the situation in the Anduin. They're the ones who need to worry about fertility! (Just look at all the nasties in The Gathering who aren't keen on hobbits.) sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-05-2002, 05:31 AM	#274
Rose Cotton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: A place worse then Mordor........School! Posts: 1,075	Ya, Pippin was what? I think he said like 28 or 29 or somthing like that. We have a younger group. That's alright. __________________ "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone."-Remus Lupin "The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."-Pippin (now how can you argue with that logic?)

10-05-2002, 10:09 AM	#275
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Pio and Rose, I have one of those odd requests... Can we hide from Phura and Gamba that Bird is a shapechanger? I've arranged for Phura and Gamba not to be near the water when Daisy arrives, so that's covered, and Loremaster is determined to hide Bird's identity from most of the hobbits, but especially from Phura (because Loremaster is wise...) I'm planning on Loremaster being very protective of Daisy's identity and forbidding the boys to pry. They will of course be curious because she's new and mysterious. But if we can prevent Phura and Gamba from seeing Bird morph in public (especially into her human form) or show her human form, until they are all back on the Star, I would like to do that if possible. They can see a dragon, a dolphin, a bird, and a bug, and think that Daisy has four different friends. Just not the lady-form, and if she has to morph, Phura and Gamba can be elsewhere at the time and the Loremaster can swear everybody to silence. He knows he doesn't want Phura to know about Bird. He's trying to hide her from him, purposefully. Is all this too crazy? If it's too much, then I will figure out how to adjust the scene I was going to do. Regards, --Helen __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-05-2002, 10:49 AM	#277
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Sharon, Kesha will follow Phura into Hobbrim-ness. As for the rest of them: Gamba, Asta, Roka, Ban, and little Maura-- Cami, you da MOM. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Point 1: if Gamba can handle them now, they must be managable. And you know lots and lots of lullabyes by now. Point 2 is, you're the one that saddled poor Lindo with TWENTY-TWO howling, hungry babies. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] (I won't say vengeance is sweet. I won't. I'll be nice. Yes. Very very very nice.) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] --Helen __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-05-2002, 11:18 AM	#278
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	BETHBERRY Pio draws her blade and places it against Bb's carotid apologize to papa! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-05-2002, 01:14 PM	#280
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	staring Pio in the eye and unflinching 'Twas Cami who omitted papa. I drew a logical conclusion. Take your umbrage to her and unhand me, Elf. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.