WW CVI: Tol-in-Westeros Game Thread

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I think it's very likely a Lion was in the skip-wagon. When I saw the voting yesterDay. I thought Wilwa's looked the worst , but now I might say Kit. Being in the midst of a bandwagon could be seen as safest for a baddie.

So, you thought the wagon looked bad at the time, and then you joined it? Ok...

[Gil-Galad]

I am here and reading, but as I have an exam tomorrow to study for I won't be as involved today. No promises if I can get back and vote. Even if I do, my vote might not be educated but another gut one.

I will never get tired of the "Gil will be Gil" reasonings.

x'd with Rikae

[Nogrod]

I do agree with Encai that Kit has played very reasonably and her vote for Skip could be one that an innocent might have made if forced to get off at that point of the game. But this is interesting:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

On page 3, she agreed with Inzil that a Targaryen reveal would be better for later in the game.
On page 5, Day 2, she thinks that the Lovers chose to target Wilwa because they thought she was a Lion, trying to steer conversation toward the Lovers. She notes how Inzil brought up that the lovers would have to take sides.

I mean she doesn't seem to back others viewpoints or agree a lot but does that with Inzil a couple of times. Okay, that's based on Encai's analysis and she might have not reported everything (on purpose or without any) but that kind of thing actually does raise an eyebrow or two - especially as they both voted Skip, and Inzil was suspected & voted himself...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nog

EDIT: X'd with some novels...

Sorry, that was indeed a long-drawn epic. (Blame the setting?) You should all just skip to the conclusion.

Edit: x'd since Nog.

[Macalaure]

Reading along, thinking along, and replying to some stuff people said about me.

Originally Posted by Inzil

He and I have a history of suspecting one another (usually falsely)

That's not making me any less suspicious of you. At all.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Then, looking through the votes yesterDay, I noticed something else interesting. After Mac made his famous "the numbers may be on your side" comment, he accumulated a couple of votes. He still wasn't the top candidate by any means, but he had to leave right as he got his second vote, and there were enough people left that the lynch could easily have swung in his favor while he was gone. If Mac were a lion who had made a legitimate slip, he could well have felt that he was in real danger of being lynched - but he doesn't vote the leading candidate at the time. Instead, he gives a second vote to Zil, who was not really in danger of being lynched, which makes Mac's vote essentially a throw-away

I had two votes at the time, and you say yourself that there were enough votes left that I could've been lynched. I gave Inzil the second vote as well, so it was clearly not a throw-away. I could've voted for Skip, but I didn't suspect him particularly, and the bandwaggon looked sinister. Among the people with one vote at the time, Inzil looked best to me.

Originally Posted by Loslote

His interactions with Wytherkins strike me as hugely concerning, since he's basically poking a newbie player until he jumps, then saying "oh, he jumped, he must be evil!" when, realistically, I would expect a first-time player to be a little defensive, and honestly, Wythy D. has been more composed than I would have expected in regards to Mac's poking.

Oh come on. I made one long-shot comment about him - you can hardly call that poking - and he jumps right at me. I am taking into account that he's a new player and his defensiveness doesn't have to mean anything, but it still deserved to be pointed out.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Mac, as noted, suddenly seems almost to agree with skip's plan for no real reason. Why?

All I said yesterDay about lovers and lions, while I stand by it, I mostly used it to see whether anyone would react in a remotely suspicious manner. I didn't feel strongly about it, and Skip made a valid objection. Why would I want to pick a fight with him?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So, you thought the wagon looked bad at the time, and then you joined it? Ok...

I have to point out that I was the first to cast suspicion on skip, even though I was the first vote.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kit

This was in response to the suggestion the lions were trying to knock out the hunter. I'm not suggesting they know who the gifteds are. I'm saying if they were targeting gifteds, aside from the seer, they'd want to try to find the ranger over the hunter.

And that still implies "knowing who the gifteds are". Yes, the lions would surely rather kill one of the more dangerous gifteds, but they'd have to find them first.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I had two votes at the time, and you say yourself that there were enough votes left that I could've been lynched. I gave Inzil the second vote as well, so it was clearly not a throw-away. I could've voted for Skip, but I didn't suspect him particularly, and the bandwaggon looked sinister. Among the people with one vote at the time, Inzil looked best to me.

You had two votes that had just come in, one right after the other, and more suspicion from other sources. Zil had had one vote very early on in the day, and there was no momentum towards his lynch. Voting for Zil was enough of a throw-away not to risk him actually dying, but looked dangerous enough for him to be able to point to that as a reason why he couldn't be your packmate.

EDIT: xed with Nerwen

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

So, you thought the wagon looked bad at the time, and then you joined it? Ok...

Precious!

Even if you Inzil actually voiced a suspicion on Skip the first (I haven't checked that but have no reason to believe you'd lie here as it could be easily checked by anyone), this is an interesting phrasing by you:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Being in the midst of a bandwagon could be seen as safest for a baddie

And then you kind of do exactly that...

The question this is begging then is, would you have been that careless on your phrasing if you were a lion?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I have to point out that I was the first to cast suspicion on skip, even though I was the first vote.

You weren't. I was.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Tsk tsk - trying to neutralize our hunter for no good reason (a known ordo on Day 1? Pretty useless. A known ordo late in the game could be very valuable, as could a hunter kill) and now making the easiest of all easy votes?

That is also beside the point - if you decided the wagon looked fishy, why did you proceed to jump on it?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Cop

I think I'm going to vote Eomer. My reasons for this are:
- Mostly his general tone and posting style yesterDay. It came over as reserved and opaque to me, and the sort of thing a lion might go in for.
- His vote placement. It was placed in a way where it couldn't have any real meaning for the outcome.

Given that Eomer had expressed doubt of both the skip and Mac wagons, I don't think it's surprising he tried to keep out of them; this strikes me as a rather forced reason for voting him.

Edit: x'd since my last post.

[Rikae]

I'm going to assume Zil missed my post and thought he was the first - it makes no sense for anyone, innocent or baddie, to proclaim "I was first" when you know you weren't.

It does make him look a bit better. I'd expect a lion to make sure of something like that.

[Eönwë]

So, I'd just managed to get caught up, but then my internet died suddenly. Back now, and reading.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm going to assume Zil missed my post and thought he was the first - it makes no sense for anyone, innocent or baddie, to proclaim "I was first" when you know you weren't.

It does make him look a bit better. I'd expect a lion to make sure of something like that.

I think that was just a typo. Because otherwise the sentence makes no sense.

edit: Missed out actual quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I have to point out that I was the first to cast suspicion on skip, even though I was the first vote.

[Kitanna]

A lot of attention has been paid to skip's bandwagon, so I'm not really going to add much, since nothing I could say will be new.

Rather, I'm interested in the Mac voters. We know now that skip is innocent, so it's not like the votes against Mac piled up to save him, so why did he get his own bandwagon? According to the timeline (as provided by the lynch candidate himself) Mac didn't receive a vote until after skip already had five.

Originally Posted by Mac

1. Skip -> Gil
2. Lottie -> Skip (because she didn't like his vote, fair enough)
3. Sally -> Lottie (because reasons)
4. Boro -> Inzil (why?)
5. Kitanna -> Skip-2 (suspiciously placed, moving skip ahead of a four tie, but her reasoning feels innocent)
6. Wilwa -> Skip-3 (if Wilwa was still alive, this vote would look horrible)
7. Inzil -> Skip-4 (badly placed and badly reasoned. Inzil had a vote as well, so maybe part of him choosing the bandwaggon was self-preservation)
8. Gala -> Mac (boo)
9. Rikae -> Wilwa (a vote for the known seer is yucky, but I don't think she could have had any such suspicion; her reasons are solid)
10. Encai -> Nogrod (not sure about this one)
11. Eonwe -> Skip-5 (comes out of nowhere and adds vote #5. If he was a baddie, he could have found a less obvious place for his vote...)
12. Wyth22 -> Mac-2 (... like this)
13. Mac -> Inzil-2 (... or this )
14. Gil -> Boro (still spreading the vote at this late point, but then, Gil is Gil)
15. Lommy -> Wilwa-2 (spent the last hour vote-counting, reasoning is so-so)
16. Green -> Mac-3 (not happy about this one, but I can see where she's coming from)
17. Nogrod -> Mac-4 (this one I like less, as he's mostly using the point Greenie made; and riding a counter-bandwaggon is always better than riding the original one or throwing the vote away; if Inzil is a lion, Nog's vote looks not so good (Greenie's, too))
18. Volo -> Gala (throws vote away)
19. Eomer -> Inzil-3 (at this late point, he's effectively throwing his vote away, too, though less obviously)

Galadriel voted first, but we all know she's innocent.
Then Wyth, who today has seemed extra defensive. I'm guessing because

Either way, I'm not so sure. This might make my strategy a bit weak, but I'm still figuring things out around here.

^this was in his vote post from D1.
Then Greenie, who hadn't really said anything of note that I remember.
And finally Nog,

Originally Posted by Mac

So Mac is one of the lovers and tries to play suspicious enough for the lions not to kill him during the Night?

That might also explain the odd "on your side" as he's basically on no-one's side (were he a lion he would have been more aware of the "opposite sides" and realized his wording's problematicness)

Which, correct me if I'm wrong, I read as Nog viewing Mac more as a lover, than a lion.

I'd say that there was a lion in skip's wagon for sure, but I feel there was probably one in Mac's too.

That said
Zil - Based on vote placement for Skip and his general agreeable attitude thus far I'd say he's the likely lion in that wagon. He also gained three votes of his own and at his vote placement he had one vote and his vote gave skip 4, thus pushing skip far into the lead.
Wyth & Greenie - I haven't seen a lot from them to make a really informed decision, but based on placement I'd say lion. I'm in the dark about Greenie, but Wyth has said a few things that I noted as odd. He seemed overly defensive earlier today, but hasn't been around much since to continue to watch. Also he was skip leaning yesterday, but switched to Mac. Which is odd to me.

I'm leaning toward an innocent Nog based on his vote.

Notes on a few others
Enca - She's been agreeable and seems a bit buddy-buddy with some players.
Mac - The more I see from others the less likely I find it that Mac is a lion. But his responses about the lover discussion are odd.
Gil - His vote was very, very safe. His comments haven't been unreasonable and though he's garnered some suspicion, he's stayed pretty well under the radar.

I'm going to vote in an hour or so, so I can get some RL work done. I'm not sure who I'll vote for, but my top three picks are Zil, Wyth, or Enca for the moment.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Steve

I think that was just a typo. Because otherwise the sentence makes no sense.

Yes, I think he must have meant, "I was *not* the first vote". (He was the fourth vote.)

[Nogrod]

Talking about votes that were more or less wasted / inconsequential aka. ones lions and other creatures who don't care who dies if their mate is not on the chopping-board (or do not wish to be scrutinized too much) prefer. (EDIT: added the verb "prefer" to make sense of the sentence)

In the order of dubiousness (aka. the latest first).

Volo's vote for G55.

Gil's vote for Boro.

Encai's vote for Nog.

Volo's is a total cast-away. With Gil and Encai you might imagine there was a possibility the ones they voted could also be lynched - but none of them actually tried to persuade others to vote their way or try to influence the outcome.

Detachment on who's lynched is one of the signs that should bring red flags around.


Also a question to Eomer: with Skip on 5 and Mac on 4 votes, did you really think voting Zil 1 minute before the DL would make a difference and what would that have been?

Volo I think has already answered why he voted the way he did - even if I'm not sure he could have really thought G55 was "lynchable" at that point even if he honestly suspected her - so whether he actually "knew" he was giving a throwaway - and in that case, did he do that on purpose or was it a genuine mistake?


EDIT: X'd with a lot...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes, I think he must have meant, "I was *not* the first".

Yes, I assumed he meant "not the first vote".

Edit: I was addressing "I was the first to suspect", which he clearly meant.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

It's my understanding that when a Targ is "flipped" by an attempted kill, the narration will indicate it. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

I just meant in such a scenario a lion who's going to die anyway could buy an extra day, because only the other lions and real Targaryen know their identity. Or anyone else (and in such a case, the wolves aren't exactly going to step in and confirm, though I can imagine they would try to get the false one killed to add credibility in the "see, I was right!" kind of way). And with no seer, this is even more possible. I mean, there's a very slim chance of such a thing, but that's the sort of scenario I was imagining.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by analog

Also a question to Eomer: with Skip on 5 and Mac on 4 votes, did you really think voting Zil 1 minute before the DL would make a difference and what would that have been?

Well, it's hard to see how he could have made an effective vote at that point, whatever he did. However, he does word his vote-post as if there was a real chance of Zil being lynched, which is certainly odd.

Edit:x'd with Steve.

[Nogrod]

I'll rephrase my last post into questions before I go for a while...


Eomer: What were you thinking throwing your vote away at the last minute? You really didn't think there would have been 3 votes coming Inzil's way crossing yours there at the last seconds to make your vote meaningful?

Volo: a) Did you really believe G55 could have gathered the votes to be lynched in the last five minutes? b) Why did you thought you should mention that you were "playing along" with my suspicions of G55? A cover (or even an attempt at framing) perhaps?

Gil & Encai: It looks easily that you just tried to make a vote that would look reasonable enough (so giving something in place of an argument to back your vote) but you didn't try to make a difference by trying to make others see your point. So bored ordos or more sinister ones trying to be careful?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also a question to Eomer: with Skip on 5 and Mac on 4 votes, did you really think voting Zil 1 minute before the DL would make a difference and what would that have been?

I did not think it would make a difference to the end result, no. However, I do believe that every player should vote. Mac seems innocent-ish to me (still) and I was fairly certain Skip was innocent. I was not going to be responsible for pushing Mac into the lead (although I promise you, I have no real problem should the rest of you want to violently lynch him today ).

I suspected Inzil so I put it in writing, as it were. I wouldn't agree that it's 'throwing my vote away', as has been claimed earlier.

Inzil is still top of my list, mostly for what is perhaps a rather unfair 'gut feeling' (he reminds me somewhat of myself as a villain, in writing style) and I am intrigued by certain cases put forward against him today. I'm still surprised that the other suspicious Skip-voter (Wilwa) was innocent (and extremely valuable ) and doubt that they both were innocent.

Need to leave now, so:

++INZILADUN

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

On the contrary, insisting that the lions always must be killing based on seer suspicions looks to me like driving home a false trail.

If no one looks like a seer (and why should a seer who's had one dream, probably an innocent, look like one? A good one would lie low), they aren't going to just kill someone who happened to suspect one of them. If someone looks like another gifted that's a good kill choice too, and hunters usually only become a threat late in the game, when they have some clue what's going on.

Really, all this insistence that, if lions killed someone, it must have been as a suspected seer, irks me because it's really simplistic WW. Can you imagine how easy this game would be if that were really true?

Well then we will have to agree to disagree, because I can't see why the wolves wouldn't go for the seer unless there's a special reason not to. It doesn't make the game any easier though, because going for a potential seer might simply mean going for someone who has a gifted vibe (as might be in this case, I agree G55 seemed a little too involved yesterDay - that's why I thought she was a wolf) or who defends an innocent in a seerish way.

Of course, this game is a little different, as the lions have a reason to go for possible bears as well. I guess it depends on the wolves whether they consider the seer or the bear a bigger threat for themselves. Which, now that I think of it, leads me to think the wolves might try to kill either people who might be seers that dreamed of them (ie seers that are immediately dangerous for them) or bears. It's entirely possible G55 was killed for looking like a bear instead of a seer, or that she was killed because Volo or Mac is a wolf. But I'll take some of my words back - it wouldn't make much sense for the wolves to go for a possible seer that just said someone innocent looks innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen's skip recap

#75. Rikae says wondering is in fact all the real Targaryen would be able to do in the case of a false-reveal, and goes on to add:
Quote:

It is from this point that the suspicion starts to build around skip.

This caught my eye. I know Rikae is a crafty player, could it be that wolf!Rikae decided to do a little experiment and blow a little suspicion in the direction of innocent Skip who had been acting a bit erratically (yet characteristically) and see if it catches fire? Also I don't know what to make of her and Inzil arguing which one of them was the first one to voice suspicion against an innocent that was eventually lynched - wouldn't wolves rather hope people forget their involvement in something like that?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lommy casts suspicion on the skip-voters, while still leaving herself the option of voting him (see #121).

I never said people who were voting Skip were particularly suspicious. What I said was that a bandwagon of the sort that got him lynched is usually against an innocent. There's a difference there. Sudden Day1 bandwagons against people with a controversial playing style are a frequent phenomenon and in my experience both innocents and wolves take part in them. Wolves might smell an easy lynch and jump in, or knowing the person is innocent, stay back in order to look better. To be honest, I doubt we're going to glean much information from the lynch, because there might as well been wolves involved as not.

The relevant question is mostly who were the other lynch candidates and could a wolf have been voting Skip in order to save their fellow, which (based on my memory) is unlikely because wasn't Skip on the lead the whole time?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lommy

The relevant question is mostly who were the other lynch candidates and could a wolf have been voting Skip in order to save their fellow, which (based on my memory) is unlikely because wasn't Skip on the lead the whole time?

Yes- he had five votes before anyone else got two.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Also I don't know what to make of her and Inzil arguing which one of them was the first one to voice suspicion against an innocent that was eventually lynched - wouldn't wolves rather hope people forget their involvement in something like that?

Zil voted fourth, in the middle/end of the bandwagon, and is trying to argue that he wasn't just jumping on a bandwagon based on the "fact" that, even though he voted late, he'd been arguing for the lynch the whole time.

That being said, he wasn't the first, and even if he had been, I don't know that being the first to express suspicion means that he wasn't jumping on a bandwagon when he voted. After all, he may have suspected skip already, but that bandwagon was unmistakably a bandwagon, and he didn't have to follow through on his early suspicion.

++Zil

And if Zil does turn out to be a lion, I think we should turn a close eye to Mac. Their suspicion of each other this game has been very lackluster - they mention every so often that they're suspicious, but they don't do anything about it, which looks a lot like packmates "suspecting" each other to me.

[Rikae]

I don't care for lists, really, but I need to organize my thoughts. I'll try to keep it brief.

Eönwë - Last on the Skip wagon. At this point, that's a conservative vote, especially since the consensus seems to be that a lion wouldn't do it. Possibly the worst of the Skip-voters.
Inziladun - He seems defensive, but I think if he really had something to hide he'd probably be more cautious.
Kitanna - I thought she was suspicious but after looking everything over again, seems foul but feels fair. Her vote for Skip is actually reasonable enough and not too waggony.
Encaitare - This, from post #55, kind of jumps out at me:
"I think it would behoove the lions/wolves to not worry so much about the Bear right now. It's good for them to have two kills a night, for now. Could go either way, though."
Others expressed the same sentiment, but this just seems... odd.

Her vote for Nog also seems kind of out of the blue, and not very well-supported.

Originally Posted by Encai

Because he is acting very suspicious of Galadriel, and while I agree that she has been rather, um, aggressive, I don't think that would be a good lion strategy. It could be that Nogrod is latching on to that and trying to draw attention toward her. Meanwhile, he has been very quiet, maybe to keep attention away from himself. (Surely one can post on the internet and watch the World Cup at the same time. )

It's the sort of vote that's likely to be overlooked when there's an ordo-wagon to analyze (which she could have anticipated, at that point).

Thinlómien - Seems trustworthy enough, especially since she suspects me now.
Boromir88 - Hasn't said enough.
Loslote - Safe, noncontroversial. Skip vote isn't suspicious in itself, since there wasn't a wagon yet, but it also is rather an easy vote.
Nerwen - Seems to be poking, casting a little suspicion here and there. Then again, that is a good tactic for an ordo hunting lions as well, though I think ordos usually are more purposeful about it.
A Little Green - Seems innocentish.
WythDryden - I can't read him at all, not enough to go on yet.
Eomer of the Rohirrim - He just seems slippery. Glib. Safe. Too much like a lion would want to be.
Macalaure - A bear! A bear! Seriously, though, I'm unsure about him.
Coppermirror - No opinion yet, except that huge lists make me sad.
Nogrod - Seems his usual self. I disagree with him on some things, but he doesn't appear guilty.
Volo- Seems ok. I'm not buying the "Gal looked seerish" theory, and there's nothing else against him.
Gil-Galad - Gil's posts always look suspicious, so I try not to suspect him unless there is more evidence.
satansaloser2005 - Silly or under the reindeer. I can't say anything about her at this point.

Encai, Eomer and to some extent Eönwë look the most suspicious to me right now. Or maybe I'm just prejudiced against the letter 'E'.

Edit: Oh, and Nerwen.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

This caught my eye. I know Rikae is a crafty player, could it be that wolf!Rikae decided to do a little experiment and blow a little suspicion in the direction of innocent Skip who had been acting a bit erratically (yet characteristically) and see if it catches fire?

That's exactly what I was doing. If I was sure, I would have just voted for him myself. It's always a good idea to watch the reaction to a suspicion before acting on it. If people seem too eager to agree, something is probably amiss.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

You weren't. I was.

Ok. I was thinking only of the skip voters who preceded me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

That is also beside the point - if you decided the wagon looked fishy, why did you proceed to jump on it?

Mainly because I was pressed for time and had no better ideas.

[Thinlómien]

Innocentish
Copper - seems reasonable and perceptive in an innocent way, no alarm bells.
Nogrod - when he thinks aloud on the thread, I can hear little wheels furiously turning which makes me think he writes what he genuinely thinks instead of trying to hide something.
Gil - kind of under the radar, but he seems to have developed a playing style less chaotic than how it was years ago, plus he makes good points. There's nothing particularly worrisome about him atm.

No idea
Eönwë - still under my radar.
Inzil - people keep suspecting him but I think he looks the same as always. Which of course doesn't mean anything since he's probably been wolf half of the games I've played in.
Boro - Boro flying under the radar?! What's this? As far as I remember, he hasn't really done anything note-worthy, good or bad, this far, which in itself could be worrisome. Not enough grounds for suspicion though.
Lottie - I keep reading her posts like "I disagree, but she seems ok". Normally she seems more suspicious to me, though, which is weird.
Greenie - I would like to say that she seems her sharp innocent self but that would be ignoring the fact that she's almost as much under my radar as Eönwë aka the King-under-the-Radar.
Wyth - can't judge because I haven't seen him play before, fair enough this far.
Rikae - I think she's not half as laid-back as a wolf, but then again, it's a long time she last played so I'm not sure how valid that point is, also really baffled about what to make of her relationship with dead Skippy.
Mac - like Rikae, he's been away for a time and changed playing style meanwhile. He's so chaotic he seems like a cobbler, but since that's not an option, I think ordo and lover are the most likely options. It's still possible he's a very bold wolf too, can't really read this new Mac at all.
Sally - might actually usurp Eönwë as the ruler of the radarworld.

Suspiciousish
Kitanna - I can't pinpoint it, but something in her posting seems wrong to me, as does the fact that people have been defending her left and right even though she's hardly been under any suspicion toDay.
Encai - I'm getting the feeling that the wolves are probably flying under the radar and enjoying the show, and Encai would fit that part. There's something non-committal about her in this game that I don't remember from way back and it makes me a little wary.
Nerwen - is playing very similarly as last game when she was a wolf. Not that it's very different from her innocent playing style - but I think she analyses a bit more as a wolf and banters a bit more as an innocent.
Eomer - I feel bad for putting him here because I always suspect him regardless of his role, but he's been pointing an awful lot of fingers without contributing that much himself. I'm wary of him.
Volo - I haven't picked a particularly suspicious vibe from him, but others have pointed out his voting yesterDay was odd, plus IF the wolves though G55 was the seer, it makes him look the worst.

I'm still hoping for something to happen that would make the situation clearer, because no one really stands out to me as super wolvish while almost everyone looks at least a bit suspicious. I would prefer to vote someone from my last category but I also reserve the right to change my opinion.


edit: xed with everyone

[Macalaure]

Some good points were raised against Inzil, so I had to go take a look myself.

Originally Posted by Inzil

When I saw the voting yesterDay. I thought Wilwa's looked the worst , but now I might say Kit.

So...
- Your own suspicion aside, you voted with people you thought were sketchy, however:
- You did not mention any of this when you did vote.
- You did not post again after your vote, and you crossed your vote with Wilwa, so, unless you were lurking (after voting a whole hour before the deadline!), you did not actually see much of the voting, at least not yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I could see the placement of his vote as something a Lion would do, but I do think it would have been more desirable for one to have placed a bandwagon vote in the middle.

You don't say.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I have to point out that I was the first to cast suspicion on skip, even though I was the first vote.

Where?
Rikae first raises points against Skip in #75, and Loslote submits the first vote for him in #83. You didn't post in between them. You talk a bit about him in #51, but you can't call that casting suspicion.
I thought at first, maybe he came up with his own points and didn't realize somebody else already gave them - happens - but you can't make such a mistake honestly anymore after the first vote was cast.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Ok. I was thinking only of the skip voters who preceded me.

I don't think this makes sense.


Defend yourself, sir!

[Nerwen]

Since I have to vote now-

++Mac

I have already stated a few points against him, although admittedly some suggest Lover rather than Lion.

However though the Skip waggon was clearly not *needed* to save anyone, it may still have been that the Lions got it going because one of their number was under suspicion. It may also be that the Mac waggon happened because the Lions felt it was now safe to vote a comrade. Note that these points could apply to Zil too, however I also just want to bring in another candidate.

Good luck!

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Copper

Our Wilwa the Three-Eyed Ravenbeing zapped on Night 2 is the worst thing that could have happened. 18 people left, of which there are 2 lovers, 3 lions, and 13 innocents. It's also unfortunate that the 3 we've lost were talkative.

I'm never too fond of excessive lamentations over whoever died, and the tone of this particular one rubs me the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Kit, re: Gal

Though her death could have been a random choice because she didn't really mention any lions. In which case Volo and Mac look decent.

Didn't mention any lions? Meaning what?

Originally Posted by Encai

As I said before, I strongly feel that one Lion (not more) was in on the Skip bandwagon yesterDay. Loslote was first, so I don't think it's her.

Not sure about this - Lottie's vote was, in a way, even safer than those in the middle of a bandwagon. Skip was a very easy target in many ways.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Eönwë aka the King-under-the-Radar

This pretty much made my day.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

[A Little Green]

Am I right in that the votes this far are

Cop – Eomer
Eomer – Inzil
Lottie – Inzil (2)
Nerwen - Mac

?

[Macalaure]

The kills seem to point towards lions/lovers that were relatively comfortable on Day One, so with that in mind: a list!

Hodor.
Gil
Greenie
Rikae
Kitanna
Volo

Hodor?
Copper - Sweetly and soundly sleeping under my radar.
Nogrod - All helpful and reasonable, but I can't make myself trust him.
Eonwe - Nothing sticks out as suspicious, except the vote.
Boro - Boro?
Loslote - Reasonable, except her suspicion of me, but I might be biased about that.
Sally - Sally?
Encai - Sweetly and soundly sleeping under my radar.
Nerwen - All helpful and reasonable, but I can't make myself trust her. (wrote this before seeing her vote, might re-evaluate)

Hodor!
Inzil - See above.
Wyth - Won't vote for him toDay, but I'm still wary.
Eomer - Just going along with other people's suspicions here, I know, but he has been playing it safe.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However though the Skip waggon was clearly not *needed* to save anyone, it may still have been that the Lions got it going because one of their number was under suspicion. It may also be that the Mac waggon happened because the Lions felt it was now safe to vote a comrade.

The Skip waggon was already quite under way before I got under more serious suspicion (after Greenie's post), so the first part doesn't make sense.
If I was a lion and any other lions thought it was safe to vote for me yesterDay, I'd have to do some roarin' at them during the Night. That was definitely too close for comfort. Also, Greenie and Nogrod put some serious points under their votes - not very lion-on-lion.

[Macalaure]

EDIT: I realize that Inzil doesn't go together with "the lions were probably comfortable". I'll look up "consistent" in the dictionary some time.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The kills seem to point towards lions/lovers that were relatively comfortable on Day One, so with that in mind: a list!

Hodor.
Gil
Greenie
Rikae
Kitanna
Volo

Hodor?
Copper - Sweetly and soundly sleeping under my radar.
Nogrod - All helpful and reasonable, but I can't make myself trust him.
Eonwe - Nothing sticks out as suspicious, except the vote.
Boro - Boro?
Loslote - Reasonable, except her suspicion of me, but I might be biased about that.
Sally - Sally?
Encai - Sweetly and soundly sleeping under my radar.
Nerwen - All helpful and reasonable, but I can't make myself trust her. (wrote this before seeing her vote, might re-evaluate)

Hodor!
Inzil - See above.
Wyth - Won't vote for him toDay, but I'm still wary.
Eomer - Just going along with other people's suspicions here, I know, but he has been playing it safe.

Very nice, but what about me?

And Greenie: good catch (again) about Kitanna! Can you proofread my thesis when I finally get around to writing it?

[Eönwë]

General feelings at the moment:

Worrying:
-Boro - Too much IC for the amount of actual substance posted. And just generally very little posting. Scares me greatly.
-Zil - Usually louder and more confrontational. Seems intentionally attempting to be out of the main focus. Very sneaky.

Kind of worrying:
-Mac
-Nog

I keep on flip-flopping:
-Nerwen - I didn't like her 'Yeah, I’m thinking this out as I go along' or her #28, but I could potentially see an innocent posting them.
-Lommy - She seems good, but something about her makes me uneasy.
-Loslote - See Lommy

No idea:
-Volo
-Cop
-Eomer

Seem good for now:
-Rikae - I seem to disagree with her about some things, but she doesn't seem evil.
-Gil - Sometimes says strange stuff, but nothing that actually seems evil.
-Kitanna - Generally seems logical and helpful.
-Encaitare

Still not enough for an opinion:
-WyDry
-Greenie
-Sally

edit: added missing word

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Very nice, but what about me?

Ha! I copied the names from your list, so I wouldn't forget anyone.
Yeeeah... *cough*

Hodor?
Lommy - All helpful and reasonable, but I can't make myself trust her.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Mac

The Skip waggon was already quite under way before I got under more serious suspicion (after Greenie's post), so the first part doesn't make sense. If I was a lion and any other lions thought it was safe to vote for me yesterDay, I'd have to do some roarin' at them during the Night. That was definitely too close for comfort. Also, Greenie and Nogrod put some serious points under their votes - not very lion-on-lion.

Firstly, you had already come under some suspicion earlier. Secondly, I only said they might have thought it was safe. Thirdly, I wouldn't have expected either of those two to sound "very lion-on-lion" if in fact they were.

I don't claim that any of this actually proves you're a villain, mind you, I'm just explaining my vote. Okay?

EDIT: x'd since Mac at #275.

[Rikae]

For reasons previously mentioned:

++Encaitare