Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[Brinniel]

Pom earlier discusses her disapproval of Nerwen and me not wanting to spread out the lynch candidates and I don't like how she jumped to conclusions (saying several people pushed aside their suspicion of Morsul to vote Eomer instead...you can have multiple suspects, you know). However, I'm not sure that's cause for her to be a baddie. And I wouldn't think a baddie would feel the need to be so forceful in her opinions at this point.

If Pom is innocent, I could see as a prime target for a baddie to try to get her lynched. After all, she directs some suspicion toward a now known innocent and makes some illogical statements. That could easily give reason for someone to vote her. Plus, she won't be around for the rest of toDay, so she can't even defend herself from suspicion. So yeah, I might watch those attempting to bandwagon against her. So far that would be Inzil and Morsul.

Of course, this would all be invalid if Pom is in fact a baddie. But regardless, I'd rather not vote for her because I would like to hear from her more toMorrow.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Pomegranate

#28 - Posts about what Amandil and Elendil should do. Sides with an Amandil reveal and random lists Day 1. This -

Originally Posted by Pom

And just in case - if a KM decides to do a fake-reveal, Amandil, at least counter that! Otherwise we're stuck with a lot of problematicly full trust to a KM, and potentially to a chain of people after that.

-strikes me as odd and I'm not sure why, unless it's just that a KM revealing as Amandil that day would have been incredibly suicidal.

#31 - more about dream lists.

#34 - defends him/herself to Inzil. This -

Originally Posted by Pom

There is a reason why I haven't posted a list yet, that's because I don't want everyone to just jump blindly in

- confuses me; what harm was there at this point in time to actually doing what you wanted everyone else to do, post a list? This almost looks overly concerned with wanting to go with whatever the majority wants.

#38 - more about dreams.

#45 - wants to vote. I agree.

#75 - finally posts list.

#84 - posts a feeling-list about everyone. Is pretty noncommittal about everyone except Nerwen and Inzil. The interesting part to me is that Pom says [/b]Inzil[/b] looks too "explanatory", basing part of this on this quote by Inzil -

Originally Posted by Inzil

All right. I'm just looking for holes in this deal, before everyone just jumps in.

- which looks eerily like something Pom him/herself said earlier. This brand of hypocrisy always makes me raise an eyebrow.

#191 - This bit, I'm bothered by.

Originally Posted by Pom

Votes: Brinniel and Nerwen made points on not adding new people to the voting. I'll need to check the times, but I don't like that point - if you don't believe anyone on the voting list is a KM, it's better to (potentially) lose a vote than to vote an innocent. And if you do, why keep mentioning that you only vote within the already-voted, since you'd then have other things to say as well.

It's actually pretty acceptable to not spread out votes late in the day; any baddies that have saved their votes have that much more control of the lynch. Also, this is before phantom mentioned he'd dreamed of Brinn.

#193 - reiterates suspicion of not wanting to bring in a new candidate for lynch close to DL.

#195 - this is the second time Pom has mentioned people suspecting Morsul but voting Eomer.

#197 - explains him/herself to Nerwen (and backtracks a bit?) Thinks if Boro was killed for being dangerous, then the KMs should have rightly gone for phantom.

#208 - states intention to vote for one of the later Eomwer-voters in general, and Sally in particular. Seems to be mostly because Sally suspected Morsul earlier, and Pom thinks she's just jumping on other people's suspicions. But didn't Sally suspect Morsul yesterday too? Something to look into.

#209 - considers Eonwe to be much less suspicious than Sally.

#210 - votes Sally.



Conclusions -

There's definitely something weird there. I'll need to go back and see what Sally has said, but it seemed to me that Pom was pushing her a bit hard on not really much. In addition, I feel like his Day 1 vote for Inzil was based on a double standard. I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him today, but I do want to look at some other people.

[Inziladun]

I have to leave for a bit, and should have time to consider the vote.

I do think either Sally or Steve could well be evil. Of the two, Sally has been pretty sensible it seems the past few hours, so of the twain I'd prefer Steve as the better bet. Like I said though, I wouldn't be opposed to Pom either.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sally

#51 - banter.

#88 - It's always hard to tell what's banter with Sally, but she makes a point about Eomer here -

Originally Posted by Sally

Eomer, your three theoretical guilty parties are all young lads and yet, instead of voting for one of them, you attempt to sink your noose into the neck of a wee lass whose only apparent crime is saying hello? You hooligan. A pox on you and possibly your king.

A wrong point, as it turns out, but she did have at least a reason to vote Eomer.

#93 - weighs in on Isildur possibly using his power today - is vehemently against it.

#94 - hopes Inzil is all right.

#99 - agrees with Phantom about Morsul -

Originally Posted by Sally

I'm equally hesitant to believe any defense that is based off alleged naivete.

#110 - banter.

#114 - banter.

#116 - suspicious of Morsul being suspicious of Sally for being suspicious of him.

#118 - replies to Phantom, letting him know Eonwe is often lynched first.

#121 - banter.

#131 - Votes Eomer, after replying to Morsul. Hmm.

Originally Posted by Sally

The problem I have with this is that you didn't deny my "accusation" of you just trying to save your own skin.

However, given Eomer's flip flop about not voting (and then voting me, of all the scandalous notions), I believe I'll have to choose him over Morsul; it's simply too risky to spread the vote so close to deadline.

The problem I have with this is, okay, Morsul didn't specifically deny trying to save himself (by suspecting you). ...So? Whether he did or didn't is immaterial, considering how much weight saying so would carry (read: none.) Also, I can buy not spreading the votes so close to deadline, but had you even looked at any of the other possible lynch candidates? I'm sorry, Sally, but your vote does kind of look opportunistic.

#139 - banter.

#153 - flirtatious banter.

#178 - banter and rule clarification.

#184 - analyzes Morsul and comes up actually suspecting him. I have to say, I agree with a lot of what Sally says here. However... it is Morsul...

#187 - mentions Manwe and Eonwe - noncommittal on both.

#189 - states the obvious.

#217 - this is another post that makes a lot of sense. Darn it, Sally.

#223 - banter, and a post that early-days Lottie would have been all over.

#227 - clarification.

#232 - "who I will vote for" list. Still thinks Pom, Morsul, and Eonwe look most suspicious - this is what she's been saying all along, so points for consistency.



Conclusions -

Sally started off neutral, then dipped into "suspicious", but climbed out of that and rose into my "innocent" zone. However, I'd still like to hear from her regarding her Day 1 vote for Eomer and why she didn't even mention any other candidates.

[Morsul the Dark]

I've been trying to figure out if Pom Is indeed evil what would defending me get him?

I think it's a reach But here goes: Pom defends me votes Sally I being inclined to help him because of his defense vote Sally try to get others to do the same. Sally lynched innocent. Day three I get set up as a fall guy lynched innocent finally day four Pom lynched. that would give potentially 4 more deaths before a KM is gone.

I think I'm leaning Pom right now but waiting to see more from others.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I've been trying to figure out if Pom Is indeed evil what would defending me get him?

I think it's a reach But here goes: Pom defends me votes Sally I being inclined to help him because of his defense vote Sally try to get others to do the same. Sally lynched innocent. Day three I get set up as a fall guy lynched innocent finally day four Pom lynched. that would give potentially 4 more deaths before a KM is gone.

I think I'm leaning Pom right now but waiting to see more from others.

How do you know Sally is innocent?

[Morsul the Dark]

I don't I'm assuming If Pom is Evil Sally is innocent if Pom is innocetn I think Sally is evil.

Sorry, I thought it was clear it was hypothetical.

I just think Sally is putting too much effort into suspecting me as a KM to be one. I tend to end up lynching myself at some point so I don't think she'd need that much effort to frame me

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Morsul

#6 - naive banter; however, right off the bat, we find this -

Originally Posted by Morsul

Moving along:

Does fourth make me the nonexistent CC?

We have 3King's Men right?

I'm grabbing at straws here, I realize that, but it's just weird to me that Morsul refers to the CC as "nonexistent" here (meaning he knows G55 took it out) but asks for clarification on the number of baddies... which ought to have been in the exact same place as the CC-removal.

#17 - compliments phantom.

#78 - posts list of three, agrees with "phantom's dream plan" but thinks revealing Isildur is a bad idea.

#112 - worried about Sally - "possible bandwagoning" - and Nerwen - "too clean" - while thinking Eonwe is "a bit fishy but not vote worthy." Votes Sally.

#124 - defends his vote a bit, compliments phantom again, and defends his double checking of the baddie numbers (which is still odd to me).

#141 - explains his real reason for voting Sally - he thought Eomer was Erendil, and Zil the dreamer that saw Sally's guilt. Sally has actually already said most of what needs to be said regarding this. It doesn't really hold up if one looks at it too close, but again, Morsul thinks like this all the time.

#144 - confused by Lottie a bit. Mentions Boro could have been the dreamer.

#154 - banter, obviousness, and phantom.

#163 - obviousness. Thinks probably only one KM voted for Eomer in response to Inzil.

#171 - gets it wrong regarding if Boro was the N1 dreamer.

#173 - obviousness.

#176 - nothing useful.

#179 - grr.

#182 - continues speculating as to which Gifted Boro was.

#199 - continues being Morsul.

#205 - speculates about Phantom's day 1 vote.

#207 - corrects Pom.

#210 - clarification, obviousness, and a Lottie-ism.

#213 - still thinks Nerwen is "too clean".

#216 - obviousness.

#219 - is Morsul, and thus confusingly, arbitrarily contrary. Sally's suspicions of him are better, and Pom defending him is suspicious.

#228 - questions Inzil about having missed where Phantom dreamed Brinn.

#231 - doesn't know who to vote for. Sally "seems innocent", Pom suspicious, but Lottie makes a good point relating to Pom's innocence.


Conclusions -

It's always hard for me to say anything about Morsul. He's almost always self-deprecatingly wrong, but it's practically impossible to tell how much of that is intentional (read: wolvish) and how much of that is just typical Morsul.

[the phantom]

Just so we're clear of the position here-

Population: 11
Good vs Bad: 8 vs 3
Known Innocents: 3

Assuming an incorrect lynch-
10
7 vs 3
3

The baddies kill Amandil tonight, as he is the one guaranteed not to be protected tonight. Thus tomorrow-
9
6 vs 3
2

If the Baddies elect to leave Amandil alive to avoid his power and go after Brin or I and guess wrong (Anarion will be protecting one of us no doubt), then we'll sit here tomorrow-
10
7 vs 3
3

And in that circumstance the Baddies would then be forced to attempt a repeat kill the following night as Anarion would split duties between Amandil and the remaining known, meaning even with yet another bad lynch-
8
5 vs 3
2

At that point things would be ridiculously weighted against he Baddies despite lynches favoring them, and particularly if Anarion and/or Isildur is still alive, as that would leave even in a simple dice roll situation a 60-75% chance of lynching a Baddie, and it would be ridiculous to think that absolutely no decent suspicions would emerge by that point.

In short, due to the untenable situation the KMs would be in with a failed kill, we'll almost certainly lose Shasta tonight, which sucks, but at least we get a teensy kickback from his death. And if we can lynch correctly either today or tomorrow I think we have a puncher's chance of winning even without Elendil, so I don't think we need be overly depressed.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I don't I'm assuming If Pom is Evil Sally is innocent if Pom is innocetn I think Sally is evil.

Sorry, I thought it was clear it was hypothetical.

I just think Sally is putting too much effort into suspecting me as a KM to be one. I tend to end up lynching myself at some point so I don't think she'd need that much effort to frame me

Ah! I'm sorry, I read your post wrong. Also, I don't think putting effort into formulating arguments against someone is ever a waste of time - even if they do draw suspicion like nothing else. After all, even if you are easy to lynch, Sally can't just vote for you without putting forward an argument and considering the issue carefully. You are easy to lynch, but that doesn't mean the people doing the lynching can afford to be complacent about it. If the lynchers are innocent, they'd better have a good reason for voting for you - actual reasons, not just 'he seems furry' - and if they're KM, they have to at least look like they've got reasons. Throwing away a vote on you is a sure sign of not really caring about the lynch - or just trying to lynch someone, anyone, who isn't a packmate.

All that goes to say, I don't suspect Sally for how much effort she's putting in. If anything, it makes her look more innocent to me.

EDIT: xed since Morsul

[satansaloser2005]

There's something you've forgotten, Phantom, dear, or at least something missing from your mathulations. In the event of Shasta's death, the role of the next gifted on the list is revealed to a random ordo. Thus, if Shasta dies, Isildur (or, if we're super lucky, Elendil, though I hold no hope for that) will be revealed to one of the innocents. So our future situation is in truth better than you describe it. Well, not for Shasta, I suppose....

[Mänwe]

I've been having a look over the voters who made Sally and Eomer their choice of lynch a number of whom have since been revealed as innocent which obviously sets them aside from our suspicions. But the battle between Sally, Morsul and Pom has been the liveliest really and coming away from another read through it just seems all typical early day back and forth.

Morsul starts out from #17 and until around #78, his posts are largely banter and stating his like for the phantoplan and dislike for an Isildur reveal. Mirroring what others were thinking.

His vote in #112 is also based on what someone else had said- namely phantom, and Sally is his choice also because its a gut feeling, he isn't confident enough by his vague suspicion of Nerwen. Thus Sally's votes are doubled. A relatively safe vote..and typical for Day 1. #124 is the beginning of the sparring between him and Sally, his jokey sounding defense of his vote for her.

Initially striking me as not all that evil but the content of his posts just aren't saying anything which in turn to me suggests flying beneath the radar.

His reaction to a Boro kill is relief= #141 that Eomer wasn't Elendil, and no doubt that he hadn't voted Eomer at all. As those who had might reasonably come under scrutiny. Then follows an odd passage of posts that see him muddle the roles/rules and a few times he can be seen to be waiting for someone else to post and only then to respond. #207 states he still only has suspicions and is still wondering.

He then picks up his suspicion briefly of Nerwen #213 and reiterates shes too clean. Then has to deal with more flak from Sally about his suspicions and supposed relation with Pom. His next post #225 is then to state he's looking into Pom but only finds something interesting, before in #231 he reiterates the flavour of a number of his posts- he has no inkling of who to vote for.

#245 is leaning now toward Pom, think he's getting sick of you Sally :P

Like Shasta, its all wishy washy. And it's been ever present, so he's one of those id consider voting for.

I was doing Sally too but Shasta has been very efficient- but my stance on her at the moment is innocence. So I won't be voting for her.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Mänwe

His reaction to a Boro kill is relief= .

Won't argue against your other interpretations though I disagree with them
This point however is incorrect. I was initially relieved that Boro and Eomer were not Erendil something I thought true at that time. We think Boro was most likely Erendil afterall.

Also I did wait for others to post because I didn't want to double and triple post throughout the day.

[Mänwe]

Fair enough, it was the wording that made me raise my eyebrow when I read it the first time but for sake of putting thoughts to paper I included it. This Sally, Pom, banter could do with a dream.

[Nerwen]

Hello again– and sorry for lack of participation. I just haven't been able to get online.

[the phantom]

Okay, so going off my master list from yesterday here's the six people I came into the day slightly more willing to vote for-
Morsul, Lottie, Steve, Sally, Inzil, Nerwen

To go with my earlier voting hypotheses- Inzil and Sally receive elevation and Morsul, Lottie, and Steve receive slight elevation. Conveniently all 5 rank in my bottom 6 from yesterday.

That's either very encouraging or very worrisome, in that there is a clearly paved road leading to these five people. If the non-voters Manwe and Nerwen are the culprits (joining with Pom) then I'd say we're in trouble.

What do people think of reactions early today to various theories on what Boro was and why he was killed? That's what I'm looking at currently- post to come....

[Brinniel]

Known Innocent:
Brinn
Phantom
Shasta

Feeling Good About:
Lottie - Her defense of Pom makes me feel better about her. I don't think she would so obviously defend her if they were both evil. And if Pom's innocent, why defend her when she could potentially be an easy lynch?
Sally - In general she seems okay and has given me no reason to suspect her. Her suspicion of Pom seems more genuine compared to others; for one thing, it's understandable for an innocent to automatically feel suspicious of someone who votes against them. I was wavering on placing Sally in the not sure category, but for now I'm more inclined to think her innocent.

Not Sure:
Manwe - I haven't heard enough from him to get an idea about which side he might be on.
Nerwen - I have no vibes on her right now.
Eonwe - I've seen people make points against him and perhaps he has made a few iffy comments. But at this point, I really can't tell whether he may be good or evil.

Watching:
Pom - She's on my watch list because I can see a possibility of her being evil, but I won't vote for her toDay for the reasons I stated previously.

Suspicious:
Inzil - His suspicions against Pom feel like they could be fabricated.
Morsul - Same as Inzil, plus he keeps making slips as others have pointed out. While I have seen innocents make many suspicious slips, it could be just as easily a sloppy KM.

[Mänwe]

Sally's was rather dramatic..and it took her about 40 minutes to calm down and then post making light of the situation.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Sally

There's something you've forgotten, Phantom, dear, or at least something missing from your mathulations. In the event of Shasta's death, the role of the next gifted on the list is revealed to a random ordo.

That fact is meaningless in the scheme of things as honestly the Gifteds are just going to reveal anyway, so that knowledge is unlikely to be especially useful. If the Gifted does a halfway decent job of revealing (referencing a planted code in their Day 1 posts etc.) then they'll be as good as known anyway, and the fact that one little Ordo believes them 100% instead of 95% isn't going to tip anything. What would tip things on a major scale is the KMs getting blocked by Anarion tonight, hence this is the last day for our friendly neighborhood Amandil.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

That fact is meaningless in the scheme of things as honestly the Gifteds are just going to reveal anyway, so that knowledge is unlikely to be especially useful. If the Gifted does a halfway decent job of revealing (referencing a planted code in their Day 1 posts etc.) then they'll be as good as known anyway, and the fact that one little Ordo believes them 100% instead of 95% isn't going to tip anything. What would tip things on a major scale is the KMs getting blocked by Anarion tonight, hence this is the last day for our friendly neighborhood Amandil.

It's far more important than that! If Isildur waits to reveal himself until after Amandil's death, we have a way of proving that an Ordo is who she or he says they are. The Ordo says, "I was told [x] is Isildur." Isildur says, "that's correct." We know that the Ordo is, in fact, an Ordo.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Feeling Good AboutSally - In general she seems okay and has given me no reason to suspect her. Her suspicion of Pom seems more genuine compared to others; for one thing, it's understandable for an innocent to automatically feel suspicious of someone who votes against them. I was wavering on placing Sally in the not sure category, but for now I'm more inclined to think her innocent.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Suspicious:
Inzil - His suspicions against Pom feel like they could be fabricated.

I fail to see how Sally's suspicions of Pom are necessarily more justified than mine, when Pom voted for me YesterDay.

x/d with Lottie

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

That fact is meaningless in the scheme of things as honestly the Gifteds are just going to reveal anyway, so that knowledge is unlikely to be especially useful. If the Gifted does a halfway decent job of revealing (referencing a planted code in their Day 1 posts etc.) then they'll be as good as known anyway, and the fact that one little Ordo believes them 100% instead of 95% isn't going to tip anything. What would tip things on a major scale is the KMs getting blocked by Anarion tonight, hence this is the last day for our friendly neighborhood Amandil.

Fair enough. I was just thinking of the slight advantage of having, for instance, Agan know that Nog is Isildur. If Agan reveals it rather than Nog doing it himself, then we know (or rather, can likely conclude) we can trust both of them, rather than just the one. But yes, you're correct, and I'm certainly not saying I want Shasta killed. I don't want the mean men to hurt my favorite psychic.

EDIT: x'd since the quoted Phantom

[the phantom]

That's true to an extent, Lottie- but only if said Ordo can bury some sort of "X is Isildur/Anarion" code in their posts to point back to, because they can't ever know at what point Isildur/Anarion actually wants them to step out and reveal them and the Ordo would probably be reluctant. And there's the added layer of one of the KMs successfully doing it as a bluff. If I was a KM without a doubt I'd have a list of top Gifted prospects and at this point it'd be very small for each role. So they just bury a code and then when Isildur/Anarion outs they point to it and *bang* they're a "proven" Ordo. Then the other Ordo steps up & says "no you're not" and then it's a fight that the KMs are more likely to win given their automatic voting loyalty block.

But anyway, still working on a reactions post from earlier today....

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

It's far more important than that! If Isildur waits to reveal himself until after Amandil's death, we have a way of proving that an Ordo is who she or he says they are. The Ordo says, "I was told [x] is Isildur." Isildur says, "that's correct." We know that the Ordo is, in fact, an Ordo.

...But Lottie, what if they're both KMs?

EDIT:X'd with phantom.

[Loslote]

Fair point. Ah, well, it was nice to think about in theory. :/

[the phantom]

Leaving for home, finally. I'll finish up my more intriguing & possibly useful post when I get there...

[Eönwë]

Ok, looking through people's posts now. First up, Pom.

Day 1
Looking at her posts, she seems fine. I'm not sure about her list, but then again, it was Day 1, and there really was very little to go on. And despite what Shasta says, I actually think what she's saying about Inzil isn't unreasonable or hypocritical; what I think she's saying is that he's stating the obvious too much, and stepping back from his criticisms unnecessarily, which is fair enough.

Day 2
She's definitely more mixed today.

Good:

• She's the first person to mention phantom getting the N1 dream. Seems good in context, because people (myself included) were getting rather too caught up in the Boro-discussion, when really there was not much that could be known.
  

Eyebrow-raising:

• Her obsession with the Morsul-voters here, here and here. Three posts in a row about it is a bit (read: very) excessive, not giving much of a chance for any response (only Nerwen gets a chance in that timeframe). But then, is it something a wolf would do? Seems quite risky.
• Her last two paragraphs here here might be defending Morsul a little too much. However, I don't think packmates would be that obvious. I also can't judge fully until I've read his posts again.

Overall, I'm not sure why people are attacking Pom so much. She may not look perfect, but she doesn't actually seem very suspicious to me at the moment (this could change depending on my reread of Morsul).

edit: x-ed since Lottie
edit: just realised formatting was terrible

[the phantom]

Early day reactions-

Originally Posted by Morsul

if Shasta dreamed Boro and boro was killed that means the KM anticipated Elendil's dream which in turn means they's is clever and I don't like clever wolves/KM they're tricky

Complimenting himself? It reads like it...

Originally Posted by Inzil

The assumption of failure here and accompanying "dismay" looks a bit odd. (speaking of Morsul)

I agree to this to an extent. I already said what I found suspicious about him yesterday, and his whole manner of saying things today is striking me the same way. But it's so darn consistent that I'm beginning to wonder if it's his style. In other words, I'm darn suspicious of Morsul, but simultaneously I worry that I could be perfectly backwards due to lack of familiarity.

Not to mention his formulations for yesterday's vote are in fact wrong (why he would make the vote choice given his assumption, as Sally pointed out I believe) and yet in the moment yesterday it's believable that he'd make a hasty gut-reaction mistake, where as if he is a KM he might've come up with a more logically sound reasoning in order to look better. Hmm.... I'm very undecided with Morsul. I think I'm leaning towards not voting for him today. At least if he stays alive longer I'll get to know him better for the future perhaps.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I find it difficult to see a Borondil putting himself out like that on Day One, whether accidentally or with intent. I like to think we still have Elendil with us.

This is what a KM would say if they were in fact not gunning for Elendil and yet being told that Boro clearly looked like Elendil. In other words, injured pride defending the kill choice.

Near the beginning when I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my Boro kill explanation this was said-

Originally Posted by Lottie

If it's something that'll help understand where we're at and what's going on, would you mind explaining it a bit for me?

Now it makes sense to request that I explain myself. Innocents want useful info naturally. But the fact that she qualified it by saying "Tell me IF it'd be useful to the village" seems somewhat fishy, as if she's a KM wanting a more accurate picture of how good her kill was, but she obviously can't request in that format thus she requests that I illuminate the situation "if it's for the good of the village". Interesting...

Now Sally- she jumps into examining people and doesn't get into the Boro issue much, which is a bit curious seeing how momentous it is. But of course for a KM the most important issue heading into today is setting up another innocent lynch, so really the Boro thing is just a big distraction.

There is much to think about...

[the phantom]

I do not want to see the following lynched under any circumstance-
Shasta
Phantom
Brin

A pass for today-
Morsul
Steve

I haven't looked at these enough to be ready to consider them-
Manwe
Pom
Nerwen

I'd like to see these folks on the lynching block to see what arguments emerge and to see who receives backing from different folks etc.-
Sally
Lottie
Inzil

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Loslote

It's far more important than that! If Isildur waits to reveal himself until after Amandil's death, we have a way of proving that an Ordo is who she or he says they are. The Ordo says, "I was told [x] is Isildur." Isildur says, "that's correct." We know that the Ordo is, in fact, an Ordo.

Just to clarify - the ordo would not know that "X is Isildur", s/he would know that "X is gifted".

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Just to clarify - the ordo would not know that "X is Isildur", s/he would know that "X is gifted".

True, but the rules specify that the next living gifted in line is revealed. Thus, it would be Isildur who would be made known, even though the PM would not specify the role directly. Unless of course we're all wrong about Boro being the revealer, which would be a nice surprise indeed.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Overall, I'm not sure why people are attacking Pom so much. She may not look perfect, but she doesn't actually seem very suspicious to me at the moment (this could change depending on my reread of Morsul).

Not sure I like this post. It's like Steve is painting Pom as a sort of witch-hunt victim, which doesn't seem to me to be the case at all, actually.

Originally Posted by Shasta

It's always hard for me to say anything about Morsul. He's almost always self-deprecatingly wrong, but it's practically impossible to tell how much of that is intentional (read: wolvish) and how much of that is just typical Morsul.

Honestly, I'm not sure it need be intentional even if wolvish– I mean, I think Morsul tends to play in a kind of bubble regardless of role. Sometimes it gets him lynched, sometimes it works in his favour.

EDIT:X'd since Steve.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well I think I'll vote now if only to get the ball rolling on some discussion.

I think Pom was defending me from what frankly seem to be legitimate(if incorrect) points, a bit too strongly. SO either he's evil and trying to coerse me into voting Sally and get a wagon going or maybe it's the old wolf on wolf trick, I doubt that this early though. I'm thinking either one or the other is evil. As I've said before the amount of work Sally's spent on her observations of me seems too much hassle to try to frame me, so I think I'll vote Pom over her.

++POM

Edit: x'ed since moddess

[satansaloser2005]

Someone needs to get Morsul back to his pond before he flips and flops himself to death.

[the phantom]

Okay, so after reading more I'm also going to pass Pom into the free pass category (meaning I'd lynch someone else in an attempt to rescue them for the time being). Thus-

You will not vote for
Phantom
Shasta
Brin

You ought not vote for
Morsul
Steve
Pom

I'd rather you not vote for
Manwe
Nerwen

On trial
Sally
Lottie
Inzil

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Someone needs to get Morsul back to his pond before he flips and flops himself to death.

no flip flop, I mentioned Lottie made an interesting point not that It had entirely thrown me off the idea of voting Pom, also you were far more consitent today than yesterday, so it made me feel better than yesterday.

x'ed phantom

[Mänwe]

Eonwe, joins the day after the Shasta reveal.

#50 states whats been agreed and that there are drawbacks to each of the options and doesn't know which is best.

#64 asking for clarification on what option has been chosen- seems a little surprised at the choice that gives the greatest amount of information to the village.

#65 no real content

#68 states he's been thinking about the phantom '3 list' idea and emphasizes the need for random lists.

#72 lists the pros and cons to the options discussed..appearing helpful(?). submits his own suggestion that should a KM be revealed in a dream that they're revealed immediately without use of the list. I think that would go without saying, the village can play the percentage.

#83 is quick to defend himself from Inzil's accusation which turns out to be a misunderstanding.

#95 questions the wisdom of a night one dream reveal. Again perhaps showing like Inzil had, a slight dislike of the open reveal idea.

#111 states he thinks Eomer and Sally are iffy, he's mixed feelings about boro and Inzil and thinks Pom and Phantom are innocent. An early declare of innocence for Pom who comes under fire later in the day. At this moment most people believed phantom to be innocent so nothing there.

#113 nothing

#127 agrees with Brinn that Eomer's flip flop on vote was suspicious but reiterates he's not keen on Inzil still.

#134 votes Eomer at the last minute. He had two votes against him but wasn't particularly vocal in calling anyone out about them. ??

#200 nothing- post lost to a power cut

#202 points out he thinks Boro was Amandil (if i read that post right) but by this stage Shasta had already revealed..

#203 defends his Day 1 choice of Eomer to Pom- his reasoning matching the others who voted Eomer also.

#204 some private joke?

#267 overview of Pom- who he has said he believes to be innocent..and concludes that he doesn't see the suspicion surrounding Pom. So continuity is upheld from early Day 1 post saying feelings for Pom were good.

It's like a clearer more concise version of Morsul to me. I'm inclined to give him a miss for today over Morsul who is just that more.."washy".

x'd with all of the above:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Not sure I like this post. It's like Steve is painting Pom as a sort of witch-hunt victim, which doesn't seem to me to be the case at all, actually.


Honestly, I'm not sure it need be intentional even if wolvish– I mean, I think Morsul tends to play in a kind of bubble regardless of role. Sometimes it gets him lynched, sometimes it works in his favour.

EDIT:X'd since Steve.

That is the flip side

[Inziladun]

I feel I've pretty much been dead weight thus far, but I'm hopeful I can make up for it now that the weekend's here.

After thinking things over and seeing the most recent posts, I'm now more inclined to go with Steve over Pom. As noted, his was one of the Eomer votes, and it still seems likely at least one of those was evil. I know it isn't me, and seemingly not Brinn. That leaves Sally and Steve, and of the two Steve looks worse, based upon toDay's activity.
What tipped the balance was Nerwen's # 272. If Steve turns out evil, then Pom is pretty well implicated.

++Steve

x/d with all since # 273. Yes, I'm that slow.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I agree to this to an extent. I already said what I found suspicious about him yesterday, and his whole manner of saying things today is striking me the same way. But it's so darn consistent that I'm beginning to wonder if it's his style. In other words, I'm darn suspicious of Morsul, but simultaneously I worry that I could be perfectly backwards due to lack of familiarity.

It *is* his style. Seriously, he always plays like this regardless of role, thats the trouble.

Originally Posted by phantom

Now Sally- she jumps into examining people and doesn't get into the Boro issue much, which is a bit curious seeing how momentous it is. But of course for a KM the most important issue heading into today is setting up another innocent lynch, so really the Boro thing is just a big distraction.

Ye-es... but you could just as easily say it would be in the KM's interest to keep the village talking about the Boro question instead of looking for wolves, couldn't you?

EDIT:X;d since self.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Near the beginning when I wasn't entirely forthcoming with my Boro kill explanation this was said-

Now it makes sense to request that I explain myself. Innocents want useful info naturally. But the fact that she qualified it by saying "Tell me IF it'd be useful to the village" seems somewhat fishy, as if she's a KM wanting a more accurate picture of how good her kill was, but she obviously can't request in that format thus she requests that I illuminate the situation "if it's for the good of the village". Interesting...

I'm terrible at hinting-type things. When I ask for clarification, I don't want to force a reveal of information that would be terrible if the wolves knew when they might not have noticed yet. Simple as that. I wanted to ask for the information without putting you in a too-tricky spot if you didn't want to share with everyone.

EDIT: xed since Manwe