Are You Writing Serious Fantasy?

[Lila Bramble]

Thanks for the welcome! And I will answer the question 'How do you use your monsters/villains?'

In my stories (which all happen to be fantasy with genres of adventure with weavings of drama and romance) the villain has always a very important role:

To make everything complicated!

In most of my fantasy works, the main character or hero has some sort of relationship with the villain or had asscotiations with him/her/it in earlier years.

Also, to make things interestings [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img], I usually let one character slip away; either to fall into the villian's side, or to be defeated or killed.

My villians always have a reason for their actions and a detailed history of their evil ways. Usually they ahve strengths and barley have weaknesses, and the hero is never the one to slay them.

Always the defeat of the villain is shared among more than one person, leaving a network of help in the slaying or demolishing, often very complaicated, leaving you to think who is the most responsible for the defeat.

Sometimes villains are thought defeated and lay dormant, and when least expected, such as in times of peace and prosperity, appear again, causing much disturbance and havoc.

This is how I use my villains, in complicated, yet interesting ways. Well, thanks for listening!

[the real findorfin]

My writings are greatly influenced by David Eddings.

I have a race called the zraks.

The have white skin and pointed ears and are quite tall. Like the angaraks of eddings.

In the past they were the followers of the 'great evil' in my book.

They are trying to get over it but have create a ggreat religious empire based on the sun.

There are otherl, more stereotypical monsters......like Werewolves, etc. as well.

[Lila Bramble]

I'm aorry to be posting so much, but I just reviewed a little bit of the earlier pages.

I agree that it is okay to weave some sexual relationships. After all, it is compltely normal.

Also, language is okay since it is true people use 'bad' words occasonallym, so there shouldn't really be a problem, after all, you should see what I write.

I'm on www.fanfiction.net as well, and there you can post whatever you want. It is best to have ratings on your works.

[Laiedheliel]

Laiedheliel, I like your music angle. Someone on another thread mentioned modern dissonance vs classical: do you see different schools of magic? Could dissonant magic ever be good? -Nar

Hmm...I really haven't thought about it, but now that I do I'd have to say: no, dissonant magic could not be wholly good, and yes, I see different schools of magic.. This is why: the songs are like pacts (promises, bargans, pleas) with the higher powers of my world, and when you sing/play something beautiful, it catches their attention and makes them more willing to help you, almost as if they need to be bought over with more that one's loyalty. This is where the different schools would come into play: certain tunes and lyrics would be need for each deity, and for each effect you wished to achieve. There is alot more on that subject, and if you really wanna know, PM and I'll tell you the rest. If you were to play something dissonant, it might offend them, and thus make them less willing to give their aid. I suppose that if you did play/sing something dissonant, it would be harder or take more (an offering of some type, riches possibly for a virtuous deity, blood and souls for a foul one?) to accomplish the ends the song was meant to. A note: this is all off the top of my head, before reading your post Nar, I hadn't thought about it. I also feel like I've given too much away (for everyone at FWW!).

Anybody want to share favorite monsters?

I haven't put any 'monsters' into my story yet, though I have plans in my head for demons and other such things (again, I'm giving stuff away!). I suppose I'd include other mythically creatures also, not just the evil ones. I'd be cool to have something similar to a chimera (sp?)...O, and dragons are cool.

Question for y'all: how do you use your monsters - as foils for the hero/heroine? in unexpected ways? -LMP

My monsters would end up as obstacles on a longer path towards a main villan, as if the head bad guy were using them as pawns on a chess board. And certain alliances would come into play, it all gets very complicated.
But, LMP, you'll get to see eventually! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Creoso, Lila! Hope you enjoy your stay here with the undead, and keep posting!

Seven Pages! Woohoo! Now everyone should join in that magic drinking song!

[Niphredil Baggins]

I don't event pretend that I have read the latest messages thorougly - I am too eager to tackle the topics myself, as to stay in your pace. let's see, men an women way back on the previous page, and now magic and monsters.

I have four equal protagonists in my story that, at the moment (it changes name very often) I call Dremette. Two women and two men. One of the women is a hunter, raised like a man, looking like half male, muscular and bald, with a high position in her masculinity-admiring tribe. She is not very talkative and immensely stubborn. Yet she has a tender heart, a crush, and a dislike for war: she does not want to kill men, just animals. The other woman is a teenage girl, small and slender, very curious and open-minded, but at the beginning weeps for her dead lover. One of the men is a wandering adventurer with a love for the stars and nature, not very muscular but quite agile. The last one, a man, is a renowned warrior and commander of war.

Magic: it is like a natural force in this story, but it can also be connected to either demonic or angelic powers. It is acquired by study. It has sort of natural laws that only the angels and demons can break.

Monsters: well, I have dragons, men who drink blood and get power from it but are no vampires, and demons. I use the dragons most.

I also have another story in process, wholly different...

[Saxony Tarn]

Seven Pages -- yee-ha! You creatures of the night have sure been busy while i've been busy pounding away at plot complications (well, okay, a few aerial shots of Mordor, a nice dogfight in a gusty wind area, and some assorted voodoo pins tidily stuck into the hero) and i can say with greater certainty that the end of my tale may well be in sight (not just the glowing eyeballs of the dragon at the other end of the tunnel) ...which means that the beta-editing begins! Uff-da!

Glad to see that some brave souls have taken up the banner and tossed out some bait. Not to be outdone as a carnivorous graveyard beast, i'll elect to gnaw on a few:

Monsters, well, let's see... i guess you could count Skheel as a monster, since she's half Orc, but she's one of the main Cast, so technically she's a character (but it's that half monster edge that makes her such fun) Then again, when you consider that the main hero of this epic-under-construction is well known from Tolkein for being his own worst enemy, Boromir doesn't really need to have any "monsters" to play opposite, he's got Ego, Id, and Guilty Conscience lying in wait for him around the next dark corner (and all played by Bean but IMNSHO he's got the range for it)

i suppose that makes Meannalle Sidhe the cherry on top of this belly-buster ice cream sundae. So how would he go about defeating his own worst enemy? Oops, better let you read that part for yourselves!

In other news, i finally got a better visualization of the Dwarf in the party -- he was sort of the hold-out, the one i couldn't see well enough to sketch. So here's a side dish for you:

1) Bit characters that take over the plot and shove the heroes out of the way? (in one story i had to be careful of giving a character a name, for once i did, that started a new plot tangent)

2) Characters whom you intend for a larger role, but they just refuse to let you bring them forward? Example from "Trust Me" -- i have reference sketches and actors cast for 4 of the 5 major players, but Náin the Dwarf i have only the barest of descriptions for, can't figure out who would play him in a movie (given that Rhys-Davies is already playing Gimli) and only recently determined the color of his hair this past weekend.

i figure Náin will get over his Dwarven reticence by the beta-edit. Anyone else have an under- or over-performing character they'd like to share?

s.t.

|_|) <-- drinks all around!

[Lila Bramble]

[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Indeed, I will keep posting! I like to be invovled in such discussion, and thank you for the invatation I recieved in a review for my story 'master of the Red Pearl', a seriosu fantasy work of mine. *Hint hint* Seriosu fantasy...posted at the Downs... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Naaramare]

1) Bit characters that take over the plot and shove the heroes out of the way? (in one story i had to be careful of giving a character a name, for once i did, that started a new plot tangent)

Yes. Way too many. For my own story, I ended up having to ruthlessly shove six or seven different plotlines out of the way and focus on the main one . . .because if I didn't, well, one of my chara's has a few millenia of history behind him, and more to the point, he shares four hundred years of that history with a main-secondary character, which makes for way to many plot bunnies.

2) Characters whom you intend for a larger role, but they just refuse to let you bring them forward?

This one, not so many, but a few. A dragon who was going to be a major plot-motivator and semi-villain . . .well, opponent, anyway, who just sort of ceased to be along the way. My real villain expanded (frighteningly) and the dragon became unnecessary.

[Maikadilwen]

Bit characters that take over the plot and shove the heroes out of the way? (in one story i had to be careful of giving a character a name, for once i did, that started a new plot tangent)

I started out with a character who was important to the story and it's development, but not that important. But her story has become so important to the main plot, that she's now a main character and in a way, she's become THE main character in the last third of the story.

I've had another experience with anothr of my characters. I changed his name and the moment I did so he completely changed his personality. He became even more blunt and ranting than before. But actually this behaviour suits him much better than his former one.

[Saxony Tarn]

Great -- i see i'm not the only one who finds those soap-opera walk-ons running away with the show! B) (BTW - Nar, got your e-mail, i'll be getting back to you later on it privately, but consider yourself hired. i really hope i can live up to my advance publicity now -- thanks LMP and everyone for keeping this thread going 'cause it's been quite helpful to have a place to rant, rave, and share ideas & experiences)

Keep chewing on those bones, i'll think up another stumper soon enough...

s.t.

|_|) <-- it comes in pints, and here's a round for the thread posters...

[littlemanpoet]

bit characters that take over/main characters that stay wallflowers:
I have one of each, and I absolutely have got to rectify the wallflower in my sixth "final" revision because he's my wizard, confound it! A wizard can't show up in the first chapter and stay behind the scenes all story long only to show up in the final two chapters. That, my friends, is going to get fixed. The other one started out as half of a person. (huh?) That is, I needed a best guy friend for my protagonist so I came up with this guy who's real smart and has sort of replaced my wizard as advice giver...and then I decided my protagonist's fiance needed a roommate who causes all kinds of faerie trouble so I split off half of Roy and wound up with totally Celtic Megan (yeah, fww folks, you know what i'm talking about), and Megan just sidled her way onto center stage and just about took over by the end of the story. She is, by the way, going to remain a major character - my best female character, she is - problem is, now she shines so much the other females all look pale or morose or just not quite right by comparison - including my female faerie creature, confound it!

Anybody have any THINGS that kind of took over your story, or grew with the telling? Like a place, town, land, object (magical or better yet started out not magical and became so)?

[Saxony Tarn]

Things, not necessarily rings, LMP? Oh sure...

let's see... while debating whether or not to begin writing the current project, read someone else's vignette on the Downs, and the image of cold grey mist became a running metaphor (it also precipitated me to haul off and start writing in earnest, so i hope that that author pats him/herself on the back and takes the credit) Pink ribbons are starting to emerge as a counterpoint, but fortunately though, the object plot points haven't taken over the set like, say, the hammers, televisions, and phones dangling off the hook did to the set of Pink Floyd's THE WALL (remember once trying to count the times we'd see those images, had one friend counting phones, another counting TVs, i counted hammers, we all lost count somewhere around the last animation sequence)

i do have a series of stories focusing on a rather high-tech AI-equipped car... (it's therapy from the era of Knight Rider, yes) but then, the AI makes the car a character, so it wouldn't qualify (but it does hold its own)

keep 'em coming!

s.t.

[Naaramare]

Anybody have any THINGS that kind of took over your story, or grew with the telling?

Does a non-sapient cat count? The fact that I named the feline Arianrhod makes deus ex machinas accusations horrible puns . . .

Other than that, places--Stanley Park in Vancouver became a central, important spot, as well as my main characters aparment. Otherwise, I can't really think of anything; my stories tend to be severly character based and character driven.

[Thinhyandoiel]

Ooh, haven't been to this thread in a few days. Bad me. Sorry. Okay, let's see if I can catch up before the unavoidable Math homework overwhelms me.

Characters whom you intend for a larger role, but they just refuse to let you bring them forward?

Yes!! There was this character that just 'happened' upon my characters at one point, and I thought 'Great! He'd be great for such and such.' But so far he's done NOTHING that great except display his fears of the Mist. I'm holding out though, maybe his role will come out later...I hope. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Bit characters that take over the plot and shove the heroes out of the way?

Actually, to my surprise, no! I don't think so. All my bit characters are out of there once I'm done with 'em. I just say "bye-bye!" And it's on with the story. That I am quite proud of. Not the above problem though. Why won't he DO something!?

[Thinhyandoiel]

Things that started out as just things but grew into something much more central to the plot?

Ooh! Ooh! Me! I have ... lots... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
FWW people, you'll learn about this in the next chapter I post up, so I'm just giving you a heads up. My Elves 'magic' is contained in a stone that they wear. What it is that they wear depends on what realm you're in, but anyways. All this was supposed to be was 1) an integral part of my tortured character's past, and 2) my other Elf 'magic' ... this is why they NEED the magic that I mentioned some posts earlier. Also, it's part of the main Legend that propels their journey later on. Without it, there would be no journey! It'd just be off to ...heh...let's stop right there before I give too much away, eh?

Also, there is a Legend that is told later on that somewhat developed into part of my Elven religion. *shrugs* It just fit so perfectly...I loved it! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[littlemanpoet]

Cool stuff, folks.

How about any places that have become iconic or hallowed or faerie nexus points or something like that? What is it (or are they) like? How do you pull off description such that its uniqueness, magic, etc., is communicated to your reader?

[Elenna]

Ummm, I write fantasy that doesn't have anything to do with LOTR. Does that count? I mostly do "Sword and Sorcery" types, but am trying to write something sort of Faerie related. Anyone have any experience?

And I am writing 2 novels. If anyone wants plot details, I'd be happy to supply. They're complicated, though.

[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: Elenna ]

[Saxony Tarn]

Welcome, Elenna, and here is your official AYWSF pint --> |_|) fill it with the beverage of your choice. Virtually, of course.

Your stuff doesn't HAVE to be overtly Tolkein-related, i would say, just as long as you can get it in on technicalities! B)

LMP -- hallowed, iconic faerie-magnet things & places -- hang on, and let me think about that one over a few pints. i guess if i was actually chronicling what i expect my gamers to do when i dump THEM into Middle-Earth, one could say the Key that they're looking for is an artifact -- a mismatched set of 16 keys that will help them access things and knowledge that they'll need to help repel an invasion of their home Realm, and one key, for which i didn't have a location, i've hidden on Middle-Earth (why not, since all Dwarves and Classical Elves and Hobbits trace their ancestry to that mythical Realm of Tol Keinya far off to the East) -- literally right under their noses.

:: looking around for spies from my gaming group before i proceed any further :: of course i had to create a Knightly Order of the Gatekeepers, whose quasi-holy-spell focus symbol is a sizeable iron key worn on a short chain around the neck, in order to lay plenty of red herring keys around to throw them off the scent. No, they'll be looking for a singular, unique Meteorite-Iron key... i guess The Zil Keys could be an ongoing series, but that becomes game-spinoff fiction...

Keep writing -- let's go for eight pages!

s.t.

[Naaramare]

Iconic/hallowed places? A couple . . .after the story is over, the site of the last battle becomes holy, hallowed and iconic (all at once!) because of various things that happen and people that die in the end.

During the story, well, Avalon is the center of my elven culture, and as elves aren't native to this world (in my story) the Glen at the center of Avalon, where they first arrived, is rather important to them. Stonehenge, Tara, the middle of Stanley Park (if you know where I'm talking about . . .don't ask. ^~) and various other holy places are centers of correspondance between our world and "faery" if you wish to call it that.

S'about all.

[Nar]

Thinhyandoiel:

Not the above problem though. Why won't he DO something!?

It depends why he's not doing anything: is he thin in your mind, or is it not the right time for him in the story? I had a problem with a nonresponse: heroine called out & hero didn't answer, so I had to decide: Is he gone? Did something drag him off? Why is his voice not in my head? So as background, I rewrote the entire story from his perspective to get him into my head-- just side notes, but when I went back to the scene, & she called him, he had something to say, and it rolled along. You can try creating some backstory for him on the side and see if it affects the character in your story. Or, just follow the flow of the story and see if he comes out later.

Saxony Tarn: I forgot to tell you my casting for your dwarf-character. I'm envisioning Jeremy Irons. Wait, listen. As nontraditional casting, it would strike a blow against Tallism, and he's a great actor, he can work it. He has a suitable dwarven melancholly: 'It's Eru's world, and he's only our stepdaddy.'

Elenna: Of course you can post on a serious fantasy work in an original world that you maybe hope to publish. That's what most of us have in the works. Our main issue in this thread is how to get out works that can stand by Tolkien and not just in Tolkien's shadow. At this point we're into techniques for bringing our stories up to the level of LotR. How do you write? How do you develop your world? What makes fantasy into the kind of book that fits into a reader's life like a key into a lock and opens up-- who knows? That depends on the book. Fantasy involves a sense of play for the author. The author can put anything in. There is a constraint, though, that Littlemanpoet might refer to as 'a sense of place.' (It's quite a few pages back in this thread) Any author might use magical or surreal elements to make a point or symbolize something, but a fantasy author must achieve a story that holds together as in another world, even if it's just a state of mind-- that story cannot just be our world with magic soup dropped in to make a highfalutin symbolic point. A fantasy author has respect for the story as story and the place as a place-- we are the closest in spirit to the first storytellers, because we treat with our stories as if they were real.

As to the current questions: Things that grew? Oh, yes, that pickle jar (the one my heroine is fending off my fearsome monster with) It's turned out to be quite the Silmaril-- who would have thought it of a pickle jar? It sent her out of the world just has she was about to be chomped *big sigh, comes out from under desk*.

Littlemanpoet: Places. I've found that I can only believe in the transition from reality to other world if the settings are compatible. I tried to send my heroine through from her room to someplace outdoors, and I just couldn't believe in it. Once I figured out it had to be room to cave, it all came together. The story has to make sense at some primitive lizard-brain level. My lizard-brain just doesn't believe you can change indoors to outdoors, even with massive magic.

[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

[Saxony Tarn]

Nar -- very good point about characters dropping their cues (sort of the opposite of the ad-libbing that mine have been perpetrating on each other and me) Another thing i'll notice is that in one night i may pound out a torrent of scenes, then looking back at it several days later, after having written a few more twists' worth, something that seemed rough will finish itself, or something that appeared to be missing will suggest itself (same way in a gaming group session or in a well-constructed movie -- some people/characters/plot threads speak louder than others, and you don't always hear the softer voices the first time around. i recall discovering things in the FOURTH iteration of FOTR that i had missed in the first three, and now that a pal's got Harry Potter on DVD, i'm going to go play plot-point treasure hunt in that realm soon enough)

Also remind me, while i'm waiting for the caffeine to take effect, what's Jeremy Irons got on his movie-role resume? Help me get a picture of him under Náin's dark red wig and beard, purple pirate headscarf and scale-mail. How un-tall is he? What makes him a shoo-in for a Dwarven Tinker? (for the same reason that,say, casting Grace Jones as my half-Orc allows me to use her for the human mother w/o the make-up & fangs) Changed the Elf's actor to Cary Elwes & i think that was a better casting (esp. after he played that delightfully dastardly officer in Jungle Book) And he can probably speak with an Elvish accent, too... B)

Basically, when you can see these characters acting out your plot plans as if you were directing them on set, you've either got something really strong going with your story, or you've got to check your drink for hallucinogens. The tricky part is conveying that vividness to your average reader, who might not always have her imagination tooling along in fifth gear, and you want her to feel like she's watching your story on IMAX with Dolby Surround Sound. (or you want him to have as bold an impression of your world as you did when writing it, such that he's testing his water for hallucinogens -- or bottling it & selling it)

But i digress (as is my wont) and probably sound like the melting ice in my drink is releasing some sort of psychotropic compound into my soda (along with my caffeine) -- so before i go test my tap water, let me toss another one out, harkening back to "half a page to describe a tree", let's talk about colorful metaphors (my native language!)

i'll offer up the sacrificial example -- as previously confessed, i have plenty of paranormal powers operating in my tale, and have to describe the implementation, effects, operation... of such abstract concepts as concrete sensory images. This gives rise to an iconography of symbolic representations, for example, the grey mist that's become a running metaphor serves to obscure things, negative-emotion hindrances take the form of restraints or barriers (The Black Cage of Envy is a salient one) and much of Iârangol Nûrbôrniel's mana output is infrared, dark red, or temperature-linked. More conventionally to those familiar with such concepts, the energy pathways of Middle-Earth all bent sharply toward Orodruin, such that it looks to those who can perceive it like a grid representation of a black hole, sucking energy into the volcano and bending the usual "faery trackways" out of their alignment to the point where anything utilizing them stands a chance of being sucked in (and once the Ring is thrown in, the whole process reverses -- we hope!)

The hidden topic here would be, to paraphrase the very clever title of a book that i've not yet read, "what is the Color of Magic"? How do you describe its manifestation, its operation; how do you rip a hole in the Space-Time continuum, have a column of flame pour down at your mage's direction, and have a non-gaming, new-to-the-genre reader convinced that, even if only for the Biblical precedent, yes, this could happen?

|_|) <-- go for it!

s.t.

[Thinhyandoiel]

Nar, interesting idea, and worth a shot. If I can write from his point of view, the idea that I know where he fits in is most intriguing. I have a rough plot in my head already for his little tale. I thank you for the advice. My greatest fear is that I'll have to delete him (heaven forbid). I could say he is what I call, my stabalizing factor. In that while the rest are running around with their problems and saving the world and such, he is there to help and guide and be their support. Sort of like Legolas and Gimli, I guess. The faithful "sidekicks". Yes, they have their issues, but not issues that directly affect the plot of destroying the Ring. They were support for the others, mainly Aragorn. So, now I have to ask my character this question. "WHY ARE YOU HERE?" And hear him tell me his tale. Should be fun!

[Aragorn_the_Ranger]

Hey good jobs guys gotta make 8 [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I just wanted to know how ppl started their stories cause I can never start a story properly, but when I do I'm off like a rocket [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
Also has anyone heard of Sea-drakes in Tolkien cause I just heard bout them and I wanna add them in to my story or somthing. Some might know what story I'm doin already.
Also how does one make a really good battle scene/fight.
Thanx and let's get to 8 pages

[Niphredil Baggins]

Well, as I said, I have four protagonists, but that may be two many (this is Dremette I'm speaking about, Chrystal Heart has 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8... at least ten people who each get the spotlight in turns.. somehow they manage it, ...
Wow! I had an idea... Thanks guys, you got me thinking...

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Niphredil Baggins ]

[Elenna]

I am also now writing a fanfic set in the 4th age about the last few elves left in Middle Earth going off on a quest to slay Shelob. I've always wanted her to die, haven't you?

*Takes a sip of her pint of grape soda |_|*

Do any of you know where I can find an Elvish dictionary that I don't have to download?

[littlemanpoet]

Niphredil, I am so glad you made that fww place and now you're thinking "out loud" here - what a combination. I'm fascinated. Can't wait, can't wait! I wonder if you're giving away too much, but you probably know best.

Nar, you're advice is priceless.

So as background, I rewrote the entire story from his perspective to get him into my head-- just side notes, but when I went back to the scene, & she called him, he had something to say, and it rolled along. You can try creating some backstory for him on the side and see if it affects the character in your story. Or, just follow the flow of the story and see if he comes out later.

This ought to be exported to fww.

Picky, but are you sure lizard-brain is right? I thought it was the mammal-brain that tried to make some imagistic sense of the raw material the lizard-brain cooks up. Or is it the next level up? Are there three or four? I'm thinking there are four because consciousness is #4 and there has to be something subconscious and human between mammal and awareness, right? But what is it called, prehistoric/pre-aware human-brain? I would expect that to be the one that makes myth. I'm all confused. Heck I only read one book about it once last summer.

And this little summary below ought to get top billing somehow in this thread. It was great. Wish I'd put it in those words. Yes, yes, yes!

Our main issue in this thread is how to get out works that can stand by Tolkien and not just in Tolkien's shadow. At this point we're into techniques for bringing our stories up to the level of LotR. How do you write? How do you develop your world? What makes fantasy into the kind of book that fits into a reader's life like a key into a lock and opens up-- who knows? That depends on the book. Fantasy involves a sense of play for the author. The author can put anything in. There is a constraint, though, that Littlemanpoet might refer to as 'a sense of place.'

Aragorn the Ranger: I suggest scanning through the previous pages of this thread. There is a lot of really good stuff from a whole bunch of serious writers. Such as on doing battles (page 3?) As far as starting a story out, a literary agent advised a group of us fiction writers to first introduce the main character and make her/him someone the reader can relate to on some level (make sure there is some kind of conflict/tension on the first page) and after you have introduced the character, bring on the big conflict. That way the reader cares about the character enough to want to find out what happens.

By the way, another winner in publishable story-making that I'm finally trying to employ is "keep it moving". If there is any dead time killing the pace of your story, surgically remove it no matter how painful to your own personal favoritisms. Oh, and hand in hand with K-I-M is 'simplify'; that is, don't say anymore than the reader needs to know at this point in the story so that you don't slow the pace. If it ends up feeling rushed, internal thought process does a fine job of gearing down out of tenth to ninth, or whatever. Wups - gave unasked for advice there. Free for the taking!

Happy writing! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Saxony Tarn]

:: taking a swig of root beer :: Elenna, i wish i knew where to find such an Elvish dictionary (but then i wouldn't have this budding e-mail pen pal relationship with my Elvish consultant over across the pond B( and i do want overseas contacts)

Aragorn's questions on how to start stories, write battles, usw. -- well, let's see here -- my stories usually start clawing their way out of my head and i relent and let them out before i take too much internal damage. i didn't start writing "Afterlife Crisis" ("Trust Me"s working title until about 31 May) by sitting down at my computer and thinking, "i'm going to write some LOTR fanfic", it more or less said, "you're going to write me, or I'm going to drive you insane!" Your mileage, of course, may vary, but my best recommendation is, if it's not coming, don't force it. If it is, on the other hand, clear your calendar and have at it (which is what i hope i'll be doing tonight. There's a monster that needs to die.)

Whatever you DO have in your head, no matter how disjointed it appears, write it down. i was fortunate enough to have the opening for my tale present itself early enough (oddly enough, as other Wights have experienced, in a dream. Kid you not, i was a camera on the shoulder of one member of a party dragging a corpse out of a waterfall with intent to restore life to it. Saw the half-Orc very clearly too. Added the snarky little parody of that Scottish post-battle standard "Twa Corbies" later) You can always chain them together later (that's what 2-liter bottles of soda and huge bags of chips are for -- editing sessions!) True confessions -- in school i used to carry a stack of ruled newsprint with me and write story pieces while everyone else was finishing up the quiz (was a knack that i took tests fast, whether i knew the subject well or not. You either know it or you don't) -- yes, it was rough, it read like a soap opera constantly toggling between plots, but later it became the back history for another series of tales (the Silmarillion for the story w/ the talking car, it could be said) and i still can lay my hands on that manuscript -- wrote one episode that made heavy reference to it (had to insert one character or two into the original story) -- wrote with that pile of paper on my lap. Guess another point to make is, save your notes! (BTW, Starbreeze -- how'd your herb research go?)

Battles -- hmm, Starbreeze again? Short of getting the real-world experience of throwing punches and drinking fury, grab a bunch of action movies of the genre you seek to write on video, stuff them all into your head, let them ferment for an evening and then sample the brew. i find that music helps me get a handle on certain impressions -- in fact, there's more than one fight sequence in this tale that, if you cue up a given song at the right place, should, i hope, be able to be read/envisioned to the tune, with combatants' sparkling repartee coming in at the right points for lyrics. The point is, if you don't feel the action, how can you convey it so that your reader can? Whatever helps you to bring it forth should be tried (provided of course that it's not harmful to you or others or will land you in trouble w/ your local LEOs. Gotta include that caveat!)

Okay, i've rambled enough for awhile, so i'll get behind that bar & start serving drinks. 8 pages, here we come...

|_|) <-- Skoal!

s.t.

[NazgulNumber10]

wow. Yup I am writing serious fantasy.
The only thing is I dont know were to begin at. OK Ive been working on it for about 6 months now. I have made maps, indexes of names, timelines and 4 languages. But I am never satisfied with my writing. Everyone sez it good and beyond thier comprehension, but I am my own toughest critic. As for inseration, well most of it comes from my life, I am an insanly complex person, and no one really understands me [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] but I feed off of my pain and suffering [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] As far as imitating JRRT, well i have battled with that many times. The problem is, I love the books so much, it is hard to hrid my thoughts of them when I work on it. Oh yeah whats it about you say? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Well this is an incredably long backstory, but it cronicals( i cant spell ) the realm of Anaron ( i dont know how to get the little dash above the second a it's easy on my other computer ) I daont know wheater to work on a preqquel fisrt, or the 1st series, which is about the journey of Drayken, who is anything but your clean cut hero. He is thought to be evil by the people of his kingdom ( well not actually his, Drayken is the last of a subspecies of men called the Kobowins). As for other races i have the hornfolk ( barbairian types with little horns in their eyebrows) dwarves ( with all golden eyes ) elves ( most baised on my best friend) endred ( bird like people) merfolk, and some others. Since im running out of thing to say with out reveiling too much plot ( oh theres a lot- 4 main series worth )
ill just end with a free form poem i thought up

what am I but a shell of a man,
Nay I am nor shell nor spirit,
Nothing but a wisper in the wind of something that could be,
I look at others and ask why them why me,
They dont care for my ideas,
They are oblivious to my hours of work
they dont know my pain,
To them I am nothing,
But i am much more

Of for the life of a lonely 14 year old [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Saxony Tarn]

welcome, #10, and thanks for pushing us to page 8! :: pours drinks all around ::

|_|) <-- here is your official mead-of-inspiration mug, fill it with whatever inspires you.

i think you'll find Wights of all ages on this board, all sharing things about their writing and helping each other progress toward "serious" fantasy -- be welcome and post often.

s.t.

[NazgulNumber10]

[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] yes yes dance my pretties, oh yeah and hi yourself, how did you know it was my first post [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] oh yeah the newly deciced thing? yeah that s it. and now it's time for another one of my poems

Deep inside every man burns a fire
And shadow battles light
the winner lies in desire
As day turns to night

Everthing comes from somewhere
Every beginning comes to an end
A fight against the world is never fair
Yet for every foe there is a friend

In the distance lay dangers unkown
Yet you battle on with all your might
You approach the beast of stone
As day turns to night

I worte that last night [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Its for my story [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] thanx and cya [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Maikadilwen]

Yay, page 8. Post away you guys. This is interesting stuff.
This round's on me.... |_|)|_|)|_|)|_|)|_|)|_|) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[NazgulNumber10]

how 'bout some leaf /\
( )
( )
\/
I
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[NazgulNumber10]

that leaf didn't come out well [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Starbreeze]

Its funny what people come up with. Someone, when reading my story said: "why is it that everything happens to people in books, I mean, why don't people in books have normal lives, like us, why do they always end up having adventures and stuff?"

I couldn't beleive it! Its simple - if people in books had normal lives, no one would read the book! People in books have adventures becuase otherwise the person wouldn't be worth reading (or writing) about.

What I'm leading to is:

How do you make your adventures and mishaps seem realisitc, and not seem like everything happens to the same person, impossibly frequently?

Does that make sense? I expect not - having only just started recovering from all the cramming and the exams I've done in the past 24 hours I probably don't make any sense at all - and at the moment I'm a bit hyper from all that pent up energy beeing released at once. *swirls around the room in hyper activeness*

[Saxony Tarn]

Ah, Starbreeze, you've hit the nail on the head there! Guess it really depends on what you consider a "normal life"!

Let me tell you what that pile of manuscript that i was writing back in school consisted of: From Monday through Friday, the classes my young characters were in, the things they had to deal with, and the falling bits of sky that made their secondary-school years just that much more surreal. "School as it was, as it wasn't, as it should have been, as it never should have been", i used to describe it (for example, Tama had it easy, just being "lavender" -- whereas Biffi was later revealed to be a lavender-skinned space alien, Barry whose Irish family lived at the end of Druid Wood Road (a real street in the real small town in New Jersey where i lived while writing it) and were all practicing Celtic magicians cast a few spells to save his and a few others' collective bacon, etc. It was the 80's, so leather jackets and switchblades were required armor and weapons -- firearms were always the province of the grownups, and even Jason (who was a few years older) when he picked up the bad guy's discarded gun, never fired it -- he turned it right over to the cops...

Even then, it is a sobering thought to note that, 20 years hence, were i writing this in a school in America today, i would be the first one sent to the principal's office, if not outright suspended and given thorough analysis. Zero tolerance, you know. But i'm sure the cast of "Wierd Things Happen In New Jersey" would have quite a lot to say about Columbine.

i'm just not about to ask them, at least not until my LOTR inspiration runs out.

|_|) <-- Skoal!

s.t.

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Saxony Tarn ]

[NazgulNumber10]

Id try to make a better leaf but I don't have the time, GTA III is my life (again)
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[NazgulNumber10]

Almost forgot
|_|) hic hic 'nother round, my tab,oh ah put in under the name Underhill [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Naaramare]

The time that my characters were having monster-of-the-week adventures, it was simply because the elder elven member of the coterie was bored. He constructed most of the "trouble" and brought them in and around it as entertainment, distraction and protection for himself. ^^ So that's that. For the later years--the actual subject of my book--well, there's only this one "adventure" (synonym for "little trip through hell") and then they all retire. So. That's how I handle it. For this story.

For others, well, the characters take the attitude to "adventure" that veteran homicide cops take to their work: "Okay, what's going to try to destroy the world TODAY?" They're also paranoid. Extremely.

[Thinhyandoiel]

Hello Number10! Mae govannen!

How do you make your adventures and mishaps seem realisitc, and not seem like everything happens to the same person, impossibly frequently?

Eeee...this is so hard to do! And it is kind of important as well. (Tch, kind of? 'Tis very important.) I mean, if Frodo got stabbed one more time in LOTR I would have thrown down my book in exasperation. Seriously, that hobbit cannot keep himself out of trouble. Well, okay, so he's carrying the Ring of Power that could very well destroy the world...er...I withdraw what I said earlier.

The thing is, I've read stories where everything horrible and awful happens to only one or two characters. It gets mundane and predictable, but none of the characters can go through the whole tale unscathed (in our chosen genre of course).
In my story, I've tried to 'balance it out' a bit, trying not to reserve all the injuries for one of the main characters. After he fell off that building, I decided no more injuries for a few more chapters. He'd had enough for one day [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Oh yeah, I just thought of something. That one character who hadn't done anything, actually joined the party because he was looking for adventure. Ironic.

[Starbreeze]

I spread the duties of heroism across several people, in several places, that way, even if one group of people is attacked, not all my heros are injured. It also means I can vary the injuries each 'hero' aquires - e.g. one time Imila would suffer from burns from a woral attack but the next time she would be psychologically (sp?) affected by the sights she saw after a Ter-hound (another invention of mine, fresh off the drawing board and with out a proper name) attacked a villager. This way it is more varied and less repetitive but still represents the danger of the quest these people are embarking on.