Game Thread: TIG XCII - Disaster by the Lake

[Nogrod]

A quick comment...

We (Lommy, Greenie, Legate & myself) are having a Star Wars marathon. The fourth movie just started.

I haven't had time to read toDay's posts yet and will be online only around the last hours - and I don't yet know how we're going to solve the playing problem with Greenie with most probably only one internet connection (but two laptops, anyway). But we'll both take part in this later on.


One thing I thought you might be asking about - and I actually saw someone asking about it altready loading this page... the "Agan is a cobbler affair". If you look at her post just above where I say that, she basically makes a "Legate 180" - and adding that to my earlier suspicions kind of made it and I felt I was sure she was the cobbler - and I just wrote it before reading further. When I then saw someone was interpreting my words in a seerish manner I didn't wish to object to that as I knew we had this "marathon-day" toDay and I was ready to take the bullet during the Night if I was right (thus saving the real seer) - and I was quite positive I was right... or then she would be a wolf which would be even better.

But I clearly was wrong... and reckless to that matter, looking from hindsight.

Anyway. I'll try my best later on (only three movies to go ).

[Kitanna]

Day 2
G55
Post 1: Pitch is likely innocent. Bom is Bom and that doesn't say much. No conclusion on Nerwen, but knows she can be "deadly sharp". Myself, Shasta, and Greenie are hopefully innocent.

Nog: sometimes made neat points, but at other times he has been plain illogical. I don’t want to condemn him right away because of that, though; he might be an innocent who looks at things differently than I do, or he might be a wolf who left some holes in his persuasion, or a cobbler who is just messing with our heads and taking our attention off the real wolves. Currently I think the last two are more likely.

Lottie has been defensive, but sees she had a reason for it, but isn't sure Lottie's normal behavior. Finds Agan confusing.
Explains her "Night" quote from Day 1 as just lamenting her luck, which was what was generally considered.
Post 2:

How could you be suspicious or not suspicious about someone who isn’t there? This statement had me scratching my head.

Her general uncertainness of Bom continues
Post 4: Argues with Nog about calling his posts illogical. He didn't acknowledge that she wasn't including all his arguments in that statement, just some (her post 2 of the day has the "illogical quote in it). She highlights a few arguments she's talking about. I won't quote them here because it'll be a long annoying quote for everyone to read. Here's her post. In short she says she makes confusing posts too and that wouldn't be why she votes Nog.

But as I read, you make a defense about yourself in general... A very good one, if not too good. It makes me feel uneasy...

Voting either Agan or Nog. They are attracting way to much attention for my peace of mind. I haven't commented on Agan since most of her posts have been chewed already by others in my absence.

Post 5: Pitch is still innocent. Agan and Nog have attracted too much attention. Now is this attention from her? Or attention in general? Attracting attention doesn't seem like a good reason to suspect someone, considering innocents (Agan is exhibit A) attract attention and get lynched more often than wolves in these games. Back to her list...
She can't decide on Greenie. Bom, Sally, and Nerwen are hiding. She wants to see more Nerwen than the other two. Lottie seems innocent, but is too "sweet-tongued" for her taste. Shasta isn't unreasonable and no opinion of me.
Post 6: Votes Nog. She found his posts illogical, but I want clarification on her "attracts too much attention" posts from earlier.

Today: The main thing I want to touch on now is the fact she has completely written off Nog as the cobbler. She does say he could be a wolf, but seems to dismiss this for the belief he's the cobbler. Based on her own belief that he is thus, she questioned me why I said Sally could be the cobbler and not him.

Nerwen:
Post 1: Highlights that she thinks Lottie was suspected more for backing off than for suspecting Bom.
Post 2: Says there's no such thing as a no-trace kill, but there's always questions about why so-and-so, but not blahty-blah.

And that's all she wrote. Nice for me when I'm commenting on what everyone said, but bad because I barely had an opinion of her Day 1 and this gives me nothing. We'll see what happens today. I haven't noticed anything that really stands out yet.

Loslote:
Post 1: She still isn't happy about Nog's reasonings, but isn't so ready to lynch him yet.

I also feel like a Nog-Agan wolf team would be completely out of the question, which makes me feel a bit better about Agan. A Nog-Greenie pack, on the other hand, would almost make sense given the dynamic they ended up with yesterDay...but that's just speculation. YesterDay really doesn't offer anything more solid than that.

Why did she suspect a Greenie-Nog team based on the day before? They were at each other's throats, which is a pretty risking wolf-on-wolf tactic on Day 1.
She says Kath accused just about everyone. Wolves could be hiding in Kath's list or hiding on those not listed, which only Sally made it onto.
post 2:

I am feeling much better about Greenie after toDay's posting, and even Nog's posts are feeling more like a frustrated innocent than a wolf...and I feel good about Shasta and Pitchie, too. Basically...who's up for an Agan lynch?

She had felt better about Agan originally and now she's changed her mind. She had said she wouldn't be around much, but if she's around today, I'd like to see why she stopped suspecting Greenie and Nog and decided on Agan?
Post 3:

I've started to reconsider my suspicion of Nog because of his posting toDay, I've reopened the question of Agan's guilt) and for her not exactly helpful arguementativeness throughout the game.

I still want specifics on this.

Today she's said three things. Two of which were "I trust Sally" or "This isn't a Sally-trick". Then she says she thinks Sally is a wolf masquerading.

I'm just going in order of who posted first, second, etc. But I need a break, so next it'll be Bom, Sally, Nog, and Greenie for sure. And eventually Shasta, Agan, and Pitch.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

A quick comment...

We (Lommy, Greenie, Legate & myself) are having a Star Wars marathon. The fourth movie just started.

Bah hum bug. Jealousy. For the past month I've been desperately desiring a SW marathon (that includes 1 thru 3, eventhough I don't really care for 1 or 2). Problem is, I still don't have 4 thru 6 on DVD to complete the marathon .

Ah well, have fun.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, obviously I was wrong about Agan and am back to square one. I do have to wonder if Sally is a wolf claiming to be the hunter because she believes the real hunter won't come forward and waste his/her role like that... but I'm leaning toward Sally being an innocent frustrated at her own mistake.

[Kitanna]

Bom:
Post 1 & 2: Not much. He did say he was going to post a Zil analysis but it was a mess, his always are. I'm confused as to what that means.

And then he didn't vote. The only thing from today is that he "revealed" as an ordo, but who wouldn't say that? He does support Sally's plan of everyone revealing and I don't like that he agreed so quick with only "it can be a mess when people reveal" as a point against it.

Sally:
Post 3: Her first real substance.

Agan is a cobbler; thus sayeth Nog. But Nog is acting strangely as far as I can see it, so while I'm inclined to believe him, I'm not inclined to trust his motives. Bom is clearly insane and, as always, a self-confessed cobbler. This time I'm not reacting to it, at least at this stage in the game. The interaction between Pitch and Agan is interesting to me, so I'm thinking I'd vote for one of them, but that would be agreeing with Nog, another person I suspect, so I'm not entirely sure what to do.

Post 4: Asks Agan to convince her of innocence.
Post 6: Votes Nog.

Today she's revealed herself as the hunter. I don't think she's a wolf, but I haven't decided if she's the cobbler or the hunter.

Nog:
I have other things to do, so in the case of vocal players I'm going to summarize on the whole instead of post by post.

PS. anyone willing to criticize others for not making strong enough arguments should produce at least one themselves before going critical...

Now that actually makes me interested, not that I'm too happy to discuss me as we have other things to do and talking about someone also heightens the chance of that person being lynched, but just out of curiosity: could you please show me some illogicality as I do doubt having been illogical.

Other than that, I still suspect Greenie the most.

That is the easy way out. Give some reasons so I can try to tell you why you're wrong.

Just saying: "blah-blah, say what you want, I just am not convinced" is not the most fruitful approach to a game of Werewolf. Especially if the other person has explained why the reasons the other one claims to suspect him are false.

Btw. Agan is the cobbler.

But I'd feel better voting Agan than Greenie. I still suspect Greenie and I think I have good reasons for it. It's just that I started wawering with my thoughts reading her posting late toDay... although her vote pick still screams to me she was just sweet-talking only to vote from wolvish grounds.

And he votes Agan.

So what I don't like about Nogrod is how he seems to insisting how people play the game, and that's to his model for WW. I found it irksome and at times rude and I agree with Pitch when he told him to get off his high horse. I bolded a few lines that give me extra cause for concern.

Nog is very good at playing the village and leading everyone into the wrong direction. He'd be a perfect cobbler, but for these reasons I feel he could be a wolf playing on the cobbler role. He stated he won't be around much today, so it's hard to say what he'll do from here...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Mmn– except that you list nine villagers at #194, made before your reveal. I can't be the only one to have noticed that.

But if you look at her list, she writes 2 ordos, not 3. You say you caught her in a lie, but I say it's only a mistake. You "feel" like you're a wolf that desperately wants to get rid of a dangerous gifted, and pulling at every word in her posts to try and find arguments for that.

Sally, you're not stupid. You've just made a mistake - a bad one, no question, but just a human mistake. I know what you mean, and I think you know what I mean too.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

True, but Sally, what if your target ends up being one of said roles?

It won't. She's a logical hunter.

Originally Posted by Kit

You quoted Greenie, not me.

My bad. I was rushed, and I was arguing with both of you.

Originally Posted by Kit

Today: The main thing I want to touch on now is the fact she has completely written off Nog as the cobbler. She does say he could be a wolf, but seems to dismiss this for the belief he's the cobbler. Based on her own belief that he is thus, she questioned me why I said Sally could be the cobbler and not him.

First of all, I explained my reasoning already in one of my first posts toDay, where I said that he could either be wolf, ordo, or cobbler, the third being the only likely option. Secondly, I didn't question you why you think sally is the cobbler. I asked you what do you think nog's role is if you say sally is the cobbler.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Regarding whether or not the seer, in particular, reveals today - keep in mind it's possible the seer has two living dreams under his/her belt. That should probably be a factor in whether or not you reveal.

In other news, I may be slightly hypocritical in saying this but I'm becoming more and more suspicious of those who are just kind of standing back and watching - this situation has all the hallmarks of wolves who are just sitting back and watching the village self destruct with a push here and a push there. So I'm feeling good about G55 and Sally and slightly good about she for whom the moon shines. I would definitely consider a Bom lynch today.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

You spent your two posts prior to this saying how Sally was innocent and how she'd not use a big trick. So...what do you really think of Sally? Why the sudden change when you were sure she was telling the truth.

If you look at the post, that isn't what I said at all. What I said about Sally was:

Originally Posted by Loslote

Sally: I believe her claim to be the Hunter. Not much more to say, is there?

And what I said about G55 was:

Galadriel: She seemed reasonable for a while, but her attitude towards Nog and Sally is a bit worrisome. She seems to decide what she thinks of people and refuses to even look at their posts anymore because she doesn't think her mind can be changed. That seems much more like a wolf, who does know whether or not someone is a wolf and thus doesn't have to wonder whether or not they're wrong than an innocent, who has to keep recalculating and questioning their judgement.

That comment about being worrisome was directed towards G55, not Sally.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Why did she suspect a Greenie-Nog team based on the day before? They were at each other's throats, which is a pretty risking wolf-on-wolf tactic on Day 1.

Maybe it is risky, but I've done it before. Recently, actually. And it seemed like they'd set themselves up perfectly for wolf-on-wolf.

She had felt better about Agan originally and now she's changed her mind. She had said she wouldn't be around much, but if she's around today, I'd like to see why she stopped suspecting Greenie and Nog and decided on Agan?

I'd had the three set up in my mind as...almost counter-balances. If Nog was guilty, then Greenie probably was, too, and Agan almost certainly wasn't - and vice versa. Originally, I'd seen Nog and Greenie as the more suspicious pair, but in Day 2, they both seemed to be posting more innocently and Agan seemed to be posting more suspiciously. In my mind, it seemed as though the scale had tipped, and Agan was the more likely to be a wolf. She wasn't, as it happens, but that was what I was thinking when I voted.

Today she's said three things. Two of which were "I trust Sally" or "This isn't a Sally-trick". Then she says she thinks Sally is a wolf masquerading.

As I said earlier, no. Just no. That's entirely false.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Bom

With two hours to go and not a lot being said, I'm throwing down my vote for Bom. He fits the profile of "sit back and watch" wolf, and I feel like he'd be new enough to wolvery that he'd be more likely to play it too cautious and say nothing rather than be too loud and potentially slip.

[Kitanna]

Lottie, I reread your post. Sally's name was bolded at the start of a new line so I misread what you said was actually about G55. That certainly makes me rethink my position on you.

Shasta:
Post 1: Says he will look at Agan.
Post 2:

Agan evidences suspicion of me (for being sneaky), but all day her main target was Lottie. The only thing she said about Inzil was in regards to defending Nogrod. Since the only reason I can see Agan voting Inzil is to save Nog, I find it interesting that the very first thing Agan says starting Day 2 is "I am torn about Nog" (which is a far cry from the absolute trust she had in him Day 1) but doesn't go on to explain why, really.

He sums up his observations and quotes with this little bit about Agan.
Post 3: Says "I knew it" in response to Nog's "Agan is the cobbler."
Post 4: Agrees when Lottie says Agan should be the lynch candidate, hardly a surprise.
Post 5: Votes Agan.

Agan is now a proven innocent and Shasta was very wrong. But looking at his break down of Agan, I don't feel like he's particularly evil. His case against her doesn't look forced, but more like an innocent trying his hardest to find a wolf.
Today he's voted Bom and he's leaning toward an innocent Sally. Other than that there hasn't been much.

Green
Shasta
Sally

I don't think Sally's a wolf, a false reveal when she was in no danger isn't something I see wolf-Sally doing.
Shasta, though wrong about Agan, did seem genuinely suspicious of her and made a compelling case, too bad it was wrong.

Yellow
Greenie
Nog
G55
Nerwen
Lottie

I won't have the chance to review Greenie's others post, so my suspicions for yesterday still stand.
Nog, he's guilty of something. Wolvery or cobberly, I'm leaning more toward the latter.
I just don't know what to think about G55.
Nerwen hasn't said much that stands out to me, she could be the submarine wolf.
I did have Lottie in the red until she pointed out that I misread her post. She stated being busy on Day 2, but she did answer the questions I asked about her choices yesterday. I don't like her reasons that "they were just posting suspiciously though"

Red
Bom

Bom was too quick to trust Sally today. He's been a submarine for sure. As an innocent I almost always see him jump all over trying to defend himself when the slightest bit of suspicion falls on him. Now he's suddenly so cautious and quiet? I don't trust that.

[satansaloser2005]

I slept through a good portion of the day, and then I refreshed the Downs....and killed the post I'd been working on before.

I think Bom is our best bet for toDay. His reaction to my reveal was too eager, possibly opportunistic, and he's acting like a Bom!cub.

Galadriel and Nerwen had fair reactions to my reveal, but I think an innocent Nerwen would have simply shook her head and moved on. Instead, Nerwen brought it up repeatedly, doubting what was a clear reveal and trying to dissect my motives when there was next to no reason for me to make such a reveal if I were evil. (Also, I would expect an innocent Nerwen to be more understanding of my mistake, which she wasn't and, I believe, still isn't. It seems like staged upset at my mix-up.)


EDIT: x'd

[Kitanna]

++ Bom

I need to vote now because I feel like my friend might not like it if I highjack her computer during her birthday party to vote.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I need to vote now because I feel like my friend might not like it if I highjack her computer during her birthday party to vote.

Cake fixes everything.

Have fun, peaches. We'll kill wolvies while you're gone.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Mmm. Kit looks opportunistic as all get-out now. The fact that Bom gets jumped on as soon as I vote him also has alarm bells going off extremely loud.

[Loslote]

I don't like this Bomwagon that's springing up. We need to get a wolf toDay, and I am not at all convinced that Bom is, in fact, a wolf. I'd be much happier with maybe a Nog or G55. I feel like "he's a submarine" is a really poor argument for lynching someone this late in the game, especially when there's so much riding on this lynch.

EDIT: xed with Shasta

[satansaloser2005]

I'll be happy to lynch any of the three I mentioned in my last post*. What say the rest of you?



*Or rather the post before last. You know, the one that wasn't about cake.

[Nogrod]

This sudden interest in lynching Bom makes me quite worried... Had you asked me on whether to lynch him on D1, I might have supported the idea just on principle. But now as the numbers have dwindled I'm not too happy with what I see. It looks like too random an idea right now - but convenient for the wolves if he's innocent...

Shasta, Kit, Galadriel and Greenie top my list now (I would not be surprised if Nerwen or Sally were wolves either - and well, why not Lottie to involve you all), but I must admit that anything I say now is built up on very weak considerations as I have not been able to concentrate on the posts toDay...


PS. Darth Vader is dying just now... I might be able to concentrate in a moment.

PS2. I'm afraid we (Greenie & I) will have some problems with sharing the connection now as we only have one mobile internet-stick and changing it does seem to take time...


EDIT: X'd with the last three it seems...

[Nogrod]

Okay.

Shasta, Kit and Sally are suggesting we'd lynch Bom as I see it (the two first ones have actually voted and Sally goes saying he's our best bet).

I would really like to hear why.

We're in dire straits and we can't afford being blindly walked to lynch an innocent by the consensus of the wolves...

Which does not mean I'm positive about Bom's innocence, but it does mean I do wonder this sudden agreement on a person who has been weird, yes, un-productive, yes, and whatever...

Handing the net to Greenie...

[A Little Green]

Bom, is it? Not the worst idea in the world I guess, though I'd still prefer Nog. Anyone up for that?

Sorry to be so ridiculously brief, I'm running out of time here.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

So I'm feeling good about G55 and Sally

*Shoves a bucketful of apples at Shasta* as long as you use them for the good of the village, they're there!


Suspicion list:

GUILTY
Nerwen. Don't like how desperately she wants sally ot of the way.
Nog. Impersonating the Seer. Most likely cobbler.

INNOCENT (ish)
Sally. I trust her.
Shasta. He looks like an innocent who tries to do his best, and really he did even more than other innocents with that Aganalysis, although it turned out wrong. It did not come out of nowhere.

Unknown
Everyone else.

With that I have to run.

++Nerwen

Edit: xed with Greenie.

Edit 2: Good luck, village! You'll need it! Just keep your eyes open.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Bom, is it? Not the worst idea in the world I guess, though I'd still prefer Nog. Anyone up for that?

Sorry to be so ridiculously brief, I'm running out of time here.

I'm still wondering whether he's wolf or cobbler, and I'm not willing to take the risk toDay.


EDIT: x'd with Galadriel

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Bom, is it? Not the worst idea in the world I guess, though I'd still prefer Nog. Anyone up for that?

Sorry to be so ridiculously brief, I'm running out of time here.

I'd prefer Nog, myself. I'm not at all convinced by the arguments against Bom, whereas I have suspected Nog, off and on, for the whole game.

EDIT: xed since the post I quoted

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

I'm still wondering whether he's wolf or cobbler, and I'm not willing to take the risk toDay.

And you don't think that risk exists with Bom? Really?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

And you don't think that risk exists with Bom? Really?

There's that risk with anyone, but I have more doubts about Nog. Also, Bom reads distinctly wolf to me, not cobbler.

[A Little Green]

Tally, anyone? Don't have time to make one!

[A Little Green]

Got to go!

++Bom

Just to make sure..

[Bom Tombadillo]

A quick trip to the store turned into a really long trip the store and now a trip to the movies, so I know basically nothing about anything since five except that I'm getting votes. Please don't.

++Sally

[Loslote]

++Nog

Because I do not like how quickly this [b]Bom[b]wagon sprang up, and Nog is the best suspect I have.

EDIT: xed with Bom - huh?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

A quick trip to the store turned into a really long trip the store and now a trip to the movies, so I know basically nothing about anything since five except that I'm getting votes. Please don't.

++Sally

If you have something to say, you had better say it now, because otherwise that just got you killed.

[Boromir88]

I believe tally is...

Nerwen -> Nogrod
Shasta -> Bom
Kitanna -> Bom (2)
G55 -. Nerwen
Greenie -> Bom (3)
Bom -> sally
Lottie -> Nogrod (2)

Leaving sally and Nogrod left to vote.

Edit: Fixed, I mistook Bom's avatar for Nog's.

[Nogrod]

You're doing a mistake Lottie... but well, we all do them time by time.

But really: I hate this Bomwagon as I think it is orchestrated by the wolves and the cobbler) and now you force me to vote Bom...

[Nogrod]

Let's hope I was wrong again...

++ Bom

But if I wasn't... then there are quite clear tracks where to look for the culprits.

I mean, if he isn't a wolf, then clearly this was a bad time to try someone who's just plain weird in every game.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

A quick trip to the store turned into a really long trip the store and now a trip to the movies, so I know basically nothing about anything since five except that I'm getting votes. Please don't.

++Sally

This looks a lot more like something the cobbler would do than a wolf: not caring enough that he's about to die to try and vote someone who has a chance of taking the lynch for him. Lynching Bom is a horrible idea.

EDIT: xed since Our Beloved Mod Spake The Vote Tally Of Wisdom And Such

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let's hope I was wrong again...

++ Bom

But if I wasn't... then there are quite clear tracks where to look for the culprits.

I mean, if he isn't a wolf, then clearly this was a bad time to try someone who's just plain weird in every game.

Oh, bother. I was just about to ask what you thought about Shasta.

[satansaloser2005]

So Bom's dead no matter what, yes?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

So Bom's dead no matter what, yes?

Looks like it

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh, bother. I was just about to ask what you thought about Shasta.

Love you too, dear.

In any case, here's hoping Bom was a wolf cub? I think we should look at Kit tomorrow as well.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Oh, bother. I was just about to ask what you thought about Shasta.

I would have voted him over Bom any Day - but you guys set the table to lynch Bom so... someone will be looking at you guys toMorrow... unless you're right about him, that is.

But at the moment this feels like a throwaway-lynch we can't afford.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Love you too, dear.

Well, see, I'd been hunting you, and we could have killed me instead.

Hugs and kisses, pumpkin.