WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[the phantom]

Now I will vote.

++Pitch

[Rikae]

I suppose the fact that this person does not deserve modfiring would be pretty good evidence that this person is not what he hints at being...

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Rikae

And yes, Boro, I do think it's suspicious when I see someone reacting as I would as a wolf, especially if it's someone that shares relevant personality traits. Is that so strange?

Not strange, more or less making sure if that was a suspicion against sally or not.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

OK I thought I was up to speed on this game but I now officially don't have a clue.. coffee, then knickers on head and say wibble...

Hmm, maybe a more healthy practice than me. I'm at the point where I see 3 or 4 dwarves clearly plotting something and knowing something I don't, therefor I say just go down the line and lynch 'em. This mood could change tomorrow when it's not so close to the DL.

[the phantom]

Yes, Rikae, that was the point I made earlier about creating mistrust rather than trust. We'll see.

[Folwren]

Dead line. Stop posting. Narration to follow shortly.

[Mithalwen]

eek sorry had blondmoment
thought I had another hour... but I doubt it would have helped.

[Folwren]

Dismay and distrust was common through the dwarven village that day. Few dwarves felt they could trust any of their neighbors enough to believe anything said. This day, many of them spoke, and no one dwarf made any case noticeably louder than another. And yet, even without one dwarf pushing the thoughts and actions of the others, they seemed to move together, as though led by some unseen force.

How it started, no one quite knew, but it became evident that one dwarf woman had fallen under much distrust.

“It is not me! It cannot be me! It is him, I tell you,” Gal said, pointing towards the dwarf she suspected, “he’s not normal, I know him and he hasn’t been acting normal today! Why don’t you distrust him? Why do you distrust me?”

“A strange hunch, you know?” a dwarf replied with a shrug. “We haven’t much else to go on.”

“Brilliant. So you’ll help the Forges by knocking me off, will you? That won’t do the lot of you a bit of good. Look, it’s him, I know it is – and the loud one who spoke yesterday.” She craned her neck to look for the dwarf who had led most of the debate the previous day. “One of them, probably both of them, are the one’s you’re looking for.”

“We’ve had enough talk,” a dwarf growled. “Let us do away with her.” He moved threateningly towards her, and the crowd murmured their approval. They were becoming dangerous and violent.

“She is a woman, let us put her to death in a gentler way than Bom,” someone suggested.

“Gentler death? It all ends up the same doesn’t it?”

The dwarf ignored the protest, and stepped up to the condemned dwarf. “Will you submit to death, or must we bind you?”

“Take me,” she spat out. “I will not fight. I am not a coward. But stay – let us to the river and there I will take my own life.” She pushed through the mob and they parted before her and then followed as she went to the bridge that spanned the mighty river running down from the mountain. There she turned and climbed onto the stone wall. She faced the dwarves standing at the far end of it, and then she leapt, jumping to her death in the water and the stones below.

Later in the evening, her body was washed up on the shore some miles down from the village. A passing dwarf found her, and he looked, surprised. The sleeve of her shirt had been torn by the rocks and the current, and on her shoulder was a brand he only recognized from rumors he had heard, and it made him shiver, for he thought wrongly that the Valley Forge had found another victim.

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Eruhen
Finduilas
Rikae
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf
Glirdan - Ordo
Gal55 - Member of the Valley Forge

[Folwren]

“One of us is a traitor.” The firelight glimmered on the dwarf’s face, reflecting in his dark eyes. He looked about the remaining company. They had dwindled to an appallingly small number in an appallingly short amount of time. “I want to know who it is!”

A silence met him. His two companions stared back at him grimly.

“We may have had a traitor, but what if he is dead now?” one asked.

“Is he really?” The dwarf moved dangerously about the table to the speaker. “I don’t think I’ll feel safe until I know that he is.”

“How will you know?”

“There’s only one test.” And as he spoke, he plunged his dagger in, driving it in till the hilts rested against his ribs.

“I trusted you,” the dying dwarf whispered. “It was part of your tests.”

“I trust everyone I swear in,” the dwarf replied, bending above him. “Until they betray me.” He drew back, pulling the blade with him. The warm blood flowed out and onto the floor, leaving a pool beneath the body.

“Let’s take him out to the streets so the others can see that even traitors in our own fellowship meet the same end.”

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Eruhen
Finduilas
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf
Glirdan - Ordo
Gal55 - Member of the Valley Forge
Rikae - Member of the Valley Forge

(For the record, I'd like to make note that I know Rikae's a she, but I didn't want to bother making it so in the narration. It's just so much simpler to have all the Forgers be "he's" in the story. Sorry, Rikae. Gal must've been special.)

[Inziladun]

Wow. They're dropping like flies.

So, at worst we have two Forgers left, and at best, we have one.

For the record, I doubt G55 was the KD. It's more likely to be Rikae, due to what she said after G55's self-vote.

[the phantom]

Ah yes, I think most of us expected something funny like that. Now I'm interested to see everyone's take on what happened (I have my own ideas, but that will have to wait- for the sake of being annoying and/or drama).

But of course I'd remind everyone to present your case in such a way that you aren't putting someone in the position of being modfired if they dare address the case you've laid out.

In other words, if you say "I think Saucepan Man is the KD, what do you have to say about that Saucepan Man?" then you're being dumb.

[Mithalwen]

Well first - really sorry for not voting - I lost track of time and was trying to find my notebook and got so confused and I was a bit freaked by the near unanimity. But I am a bit annoyed since I was right (first time I think since first game I havespotted two on the trot.),,, Anyway,,,,, found my notes.... need to look at yesterday in the light of both them and new information.

[satansaloser2005]

Huh. Well, that's interesting.

[Inziladun]

I find it curious that both G55 and Rikae voted for Pitch yesterDay, even though G55 later retracted and went kamikaze. I'll try to look at that a bit more closely later.

[McCaber]

Well, I'm here for my half of the day.

There was a lot to read, but unfortunately it seems to me that Rikae was the KD, so that invalidates a lot of what I had to say about her. Now I need to go back and reread what she said and see if I can learn anything from this.

One thing I can ask that I didn't get a chance to yesterDay: Nerwen, what did you mean about me being "shifty"? I looked over my posts and it seems remarkably consistent to me. I thought that G55 was a Forger before that day even started, but I was beaten to the punch with that accusation. Didn't make it any less true or in line with my thought processes.

[Mithalwen]

We have no proof though that they were your thought processes. You weren't exactly in a rush to share your insight... focussing on an rejected plan and the dead was a relative priority in the time you had available?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by McCaber

There was a lot to read, but unfortunately it seems to me that Rikae was the KD, so that invalidates a lot of what I had to say about her. Now I need to go back and reread what she said and see if I can learn anything from this.

Well it's possible the Forge members got it wrong, but which would mean there is only 1 left. Or not, and there's 2. I think it's pretty clear that Pitch has been up to something. And the only ones who would know enough to not be totally confused by the situations would be members of the Forge.

I won't have much time today or this weekend. I'm taking a trip for work tomorrow morning and won't be back until Sunday. I'll likely vote sometime before I leave later.

[Mithalwen]

In fact you don't mention her until you vote for her as far as I can see. You dont' question or challenge her even though you were posting during the same time. You think she is a forger before the day starts but wait nearly eight hours to mention it...no no idea why Nerwen might have thought that shifty....

[Boromir88]

One more thing, in my head, I've ruled out Finduilas, Mith, and sally as possible forgers. Congrats to you, if any of you are.

That leaves...

Eruhen
McCaber
Nerwen
Phantom
Pitch
Inzil

Possible 2 Forgers, or 1 KD, and 1 Forger. (Although wasn't it Rikae who said "if there's a loophole, let's exploit it?" Eh, kind of sounds like she was the KD there).

I'm about to move Inzil out of the above list, but I'm not as sure on him as the other three yet.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Well it's possible the Forge members got it wrong, but which would mean there is only 1 left.

Or is it possible that one of them killed the other with her consent to make it look like she was the KD?

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Or is it possible that one of them killed the other with her consent to make it look like she was the KD?

With this many innocents left, I'd say it's unlikely and extremely risky. But then again opinion is divided on the subject of how unified the Forge should be acting. Possible, but unlikely.

If Rikae was indeed the KD, this comment seems quite enlightening:

Originally Posted by Rikae

I think tp may be quite right with his wolf-on-wolf argument.

But I still have no idea what was up between her and Pitch at the end of the day. Maybe you just had to be there.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, I'm here for my half of the day.

There was a lot to read, but unfortunately it seems to me that Rikae was the KD, so that invalidates a lot of what I had to say about her. Now I need to go back and reread what she said and see if I can learn anything from this.

One thing I can ask that I didn't get a chance to yesterDay: Nerwen, what did you mean about me being "shifty"? I looked over my posts and it seems remarkably consistent to me. I thought that G55 was a Forger before that day even started, but I was beaten to the punch with that accusation. Didn't make it any less true or in line with my thought processes.

Well, it's like this: as Mithalwen has already mentioned, whatever you thought, you said nothing whatever about G55... until after various people had mentioned her as suspicious. And then, your explanation seemed oddly "off", as if you had simply picked up *that* people were talking about her, not *why*. This may have just been a case of someone pressed for time– I did say it was a tentative vote– but it does comes across as, well, shifty. See?

Okay. I suppose the thing to do now is re-read yesterDay in the light of Rikae's death.

EDIT:X'd with a Boro, a Pitch and a McCaber.

[the phantom]

Just sitting back enjoying the talk. But just to be sure that everyone is giving this thing proper thought, here is a little guide-

When considering Rikae as the KD, why do you think her death is the obvious sign?

Remember, the Forge has no idea who the KD is, so for them to off a suspected KD Rikae would've needed to give them ample reason to think she was the KD.

Did she?

If she did, what precisely did she do and who are the suspects?

If you don't think her behavior matches, why else would she be killed? (Surely there is another explanation.)

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

In fact you don't mention her until you vote for her as far as I can see. You dont' question or challenge her even though you were posting during the same time. You think she is a forger before the day starts but wait nearly eight hours to mention it...no no idea why Nerwen might have thought that shifty....

All right, I guess I can see it now.

In my defence, I was extremely tired last night and I had forgotten if I had brought up what I saw in the votes from the day before or not. Landscaping is tough work sometimes.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Wow, I actually like phantom's plan for once. He's losing his edge.

Nah, really, if there are loopholes we should exploit them - that's part of the game. I kind of doubt the KD feels/will feel likewise, but it's interesting to see the reactions: Eruhen's claim that it's no different from an ordinary day one is absurd and has a whiff of desperation about it, and I don't know what McCobbler is doing (but I know for a fact he's not the KD!)

I'm going to go refresh my memory of the rules and roles...

First post. Thinks tp's plan for the KD is a good one. An innocent might say that, but a true baddie may also for appearances. The bit about knowing Cabbie wasn't the KD comes up later.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Okay, no cobbler (but he'll always be McCobbler to me).

This seems to be a flaw in the plan, though:
"This player will appear to be one of the members of the Valley Forge."

Does this mean the KD isn't revealed on his death?

Wilwa, a few posts later, brought up the fact that at the time, the KD would, in fact, have been revealed as such upon xyr death.

No vote from her Day 1.

[Nerwen]

I'm looking through Rikae's posts now, but I just wanted to mention something that's occurred to me: she might *not* have been killed for something she said during the Day at all.

EDIT: X'd with Zil.

[Finduilas]

I have not seen any reason, other than being a forge kill, to think Rikae the KD, therefore, I'm going with it being a case of the KD being extremely clever, and convincing the other forge member to suspect and kill Rikae.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

I have not seen any reason, other than being a forge kill, to think Rikae the KD, therefore, I'm going with it being a case of the KD being extremely clever, and convincing the other forge member to suspect and kill Rikae.

In the case, I'd be grateful for the KD to take the reigns today (that is still within the restrictions of no-reveals), to wrap this game up now.

If there's is the KD and 1 forge member, than the KD has nothing left to fear at night.

If the KD's dead, leaving 2 forge members, and 1 wants to pretend to be the KD, they won't get very far pretending to be the KD.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Um, because I'm one of the three people he named?

This was in response to Pitch referencing her earlier remark about "knowing" McCaber wasn't the KD. Why would that prove it? Because McCaber could be seen as following the tp plan?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, duh. I didn't say "I can prove he isn't"... I can by dying, of course, and it will give me more time for WoW, too.
Actually I can't even say "I know he isn't" since I suppose it is possible the KD could deliberately try to lead the village astray, but I don't consider that too terribly likely (although on second thought it could help win the trust of his fellow wolves and keep him alive longer, too).

This was also in response to Pitch, who'd said this.

Obviously, she could not have known McCaber to be the KD, even if he was in the pack with her. Now she backs off, but at the same time talks of a KD strategy to deceive the wolves.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway - I'm terribly sorry I didn't vote or participate much yesterDay - I hadn't checked when the DL was and was distracted by RL - but I'll try to do better from here on. I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.

We know now, of course, that Bom was not the KD.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I didn't think Bom got the inside joke, though, Cab - he seemed to read something else into it (or want others to, anyway).

McCaber was talking of Bom, saying he had "leaned on" me for not "catching an inside joke". I don't remember what that was even about.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Not so... she said:



So Bom was not the KD, but none of the narrations will be from the KD's perspective from now on, and we (and the forge members) won't know if he dies.
Not caught up, still reading...

A response to Finduilas, who had said careful reading of the narration could still give the observant info on whether the KD had died.

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is exactly what I would say as a wolf if I felt the intelligence of the wolves had been insulted (and yes, I'm going to keep calling them wolves - they are wolves in spirit).

I don't have much to go on at this point, but I would like to say that I don't think the case against G55 based on her vote yesterDay is a good one at all - if anything, it was a vote and an argument unlikely to come from an actual wolf. As for her defense of me, I don't think Pitch was making a case at that time and I kind of don't think she thought so either...

Does anyone else find a certain person's musings on literature to be - interesting? I think tp may be quite right with his wolf-on-wolf argument.

The first part was responding to Sally's take on the aforementioned comment by Finduilas. Sally had said that if the good side could figure the narration out, so could the Forgers.

Rikae defends G55, and strangely casts doubt over something I considered a damning bit of evidence against the latter, the overreaction against Pitch's nonexistent "case" on her.

As for the "literature" remark, that was the subject of an interesting back and forth between Rikae, Boro, and tp.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, tp, I think it's misleading and I consider it unlikely that it's only partially so.

Pitch, when I say I don't think she thought so, that is exactly what I mean... not that she didn't say so. I don't trust you for obvious reasons, therefore I'm rather inclined to trust her.

Doesn't trust Pitch, but does trust G55?

Originally Posted by Rikae

G55, you do realize being lynched by day is no longer much help, right? Or is it?

After G55's self vote, the same post in which G55 said Pitch and tp were evil.

Originally Posted by Rikae

And yes, Boro, I do think it's suspicious when I see someone reacting as I would as a wolf, especially if it's someone that shares relevant personality traits. Is that so strange?

That was to Boro, who'd said he didn't like her saying Sally was talking as she would if she was a wolf.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Is that the best you can do?

++Pitch

And a vote for Pitch, who had just indicated he had no idea what tp was talking about here I guess, though Pitch didn't quote.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Don't you think it's strange that someone hasn't been modfired?

Well, what to say about that?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I suppose the fact that this person does not deserve modfiring would be pretty good evidence that this person is not what he hints at being...

I really don't know quite what to make of the last few posts, except that the situation for the Forgers is too precarious for them to have used a kill on her without a very good reason.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm looking through Rikae's posts now, but I just wanted to mention something that's occurred to me: she might *not* have been killed for something she said during the Day at all.

If it was for something she said during Nightly chats, that's of absolutely no value to us. I think we have to focus on what we can see.

[Boromir88]

++Pitch

I intend to be back before I have to go tomorrow, so I may yet retract, but hopefully he starts talking before I have to go. I'm not buying this "be careful HUSH UP OR YOU'RE MODFIRED" business from phantom. Who do you suspect Pitch, why, and why do you think Rikae was asking if others thought you're hints strange?

Rikae was definitely going out of her way to look like the KD yesterday. Maybe it was a Forge plan all along, and it was a last desperate attempt to drag the real KD out. I don't know, but I do know you've been in the middle of everything since Day 1. With Bom's lynching, your plea to not want to see phantom lynched, Gal's lynching....time to spill it. You know way too much.

I don't see what good could come for one of the Forgers to die in an attempt to look like the KD, not after having Bom and Gal lynched. Unless if somehow Gal was the KD, and Rikae covered for the rest of her pack to make it look like she was? Again, I don't see the benefit there.

[Nerwen]

Rikae, Day One.
#66.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Wow, I actually like phantom's plan for once. He's losing his edge.

Nah, really, if there are loopholes we should exploit them - that's part of the game. I kind of doubt the KD feels/will feel likewise, but it's interesting to see the reactions: Eruhen's claim that it's no different from an ordinary day one is absurd and has a whiff of desperation about it, and I don't know what McCobbler is doing (but I know for a fact he's not the KD!)

I'm going to go refresh my memory of the rules and roles...

#67.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Okay, no cobbler (but he'll always be McCobbler to me).

This seems to be a flaw in the plan, though:
"This player will appear to be one of the members of the Valley Forge."

Note: these two posts could mean anything, either way. Though her later explanation makes sense, the bolded phrase is a possible hint.



Rikae, Day Two.

#129.

Originally Posted by Rikae

How can you know that "for a fact", unless you're a member of the Forge and he is not?
Um, because I'm one of the three people he named?

#135.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, duh. I didn't say "I can prove he isn't"... I can by dying, of course, and it will give me more time for WoW, too.
Actually I can't even say "I know he isn't" since I suppose it is possible the KD could deliberately try to lead the village astray, but I don't consider that too terribly likely (although on second thought it could help win the trust of his fellow wolves and keep him alive longer, too).

Anyway - I'm terribly sorry I didn't vote or participate much yesterDay - I hadn't checked when the DL was and was distracted by RL - but I'll try to do better from here on. I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.
I'd love to know for sure, well, how much we know. Moddess?

Note: that's... interesting. At first sight it implicates phantom and McCaber pretty heavily– but could the stuff I've highlighted be a code for "Hey village, what follows is not true"? Or "take what I say with a grain of salt?" And could the Forge have picked up on this? Also– is eager to suggest the KD might already be dead.


#138. (replying to McCaber at #137.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

I didn't think Bom got the inside joke, though, Cab - he seemed to read something else into it (or want others to, anyway).

#188. (replying to Finduilas at #176); quotes admin rules.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

So Bom was not the KD, but none of the narrations will be from the KD's perspective from now on, and we (and the forge members) won't know if he dies.

#211.

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is exactly what I would say as a wolf if I felt the intelligence of the wolves had been insulted (and yes, I'm going to keep calling them wolves - they are wolves in spirit).

I don't have much to go on at this point, but I would like to say that I don't think the case against G55 based on her vote yesterDay is a good one at all - if anything, it was a vote and an argument unlikely to come from an actual wolf. As for her defense of me, I don't think Pitch was making a case at that time and I kind of don't think she thought so either...

Does anyone else find a certain person's musings on literature to be - interesting? I think tp may be quite right with his wolf-on-wolf argument.

Note: This is an odd one. If Rikae was indeed the KD, then it would follow that G55 must have been a real wolf– therefore defending her here is certainly odd (but see #135.). Meanwhile it of course seems to implicate Sally (but again, see #135.) I can't find who Rikae is referring to in that last sentence, but I think it's Pitch.


#228 (Replying to Pitch at #215 and phantom at (probably) #224)

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, tp, I think it's misleading and I consider it unlikely that it's only partially so.

Pitch, when I say I don't think she thought so, that is exactly what I mean... not that she didn't say so. I don't trust you for obvious reasons, therefore I'm rather inclined to trust her.

Note: "Her" being G55 of the Forge. Could she here be trying to play off one Forge member against the other?


#230. (Response to G55's self-vote)

Originally Posted by Rikae

G55, you do realize being lynched by day is no longer much help, right? Or is it?

#231.(reply to Boro at #233 (possibly).

Originally Posted by Rikae

And yes, Boro, I do think it's suspicious when I see someone reacting as I would as a wolf, especially if it's someone that shares relevant personality traits. Is that so strange?

#233.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Is that the best you can do?

++Pitch

#238.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Don't you think it's strange that someone hasn't been modfired?

#242.

Originally Posted by Pitch

I suppose the fact that this person does not deserve modfiring would be pretty good evidence that this person is not what he hints at being...

This, I presume, refers to the exchange between Pitch and phantom, during which Pitch certainly seems to be implying he's the KD.


Conclusion: Was probably killed due to a combination of hints dropped at various points, her general preoccupation with the role, and her case(s) on Pitch and/or Sally. (And as I said, possibly some behind-the-scenes stuff we don't know about.)

EDIT:X'd since Boro #267.
EDIT2: Couple of attributions left out. Note: Rikae doesn't always make it clear what post she's replying to, so I'm not sure all of these are right, anyway.

[McCaber]

It's probably the safest to play like she was the KD, because if the rest of the Forge thought she was best dead we can assume she'd at least lead us on the right track.

But if the real KD is still out there, the game is yours. Run it as you'd see fit.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I don't see what good could come for one of the Forgers to die in an attempt to look like the KD, not after having Bom and Gal lynched. Unless if somehow Gal was the KD, and Rikae covered for the rest of her pack to make it look like she was? Again, I don't see the benefit there.

Well, let's see what G55 said yesterDay that might be of interest.

This is going backward from the end of the Day. Smilies removed.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Throwaway Day One votes are sometimes ok. But I don't like throwaway Day 2 votes.

--Pitch

++G55

But I tell you, he's evil. He is. I said, HE. IS. There. And so it TP.

I might not be able to post until after DL, so good luck, my friends, even though you all want to lynch me.

That definitely looks like she wanted to pose as the KD. If she was , the other two Forgers are obvious. If not, she was merely trying to set them up.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Got 5 minutes, wanna say this



OK, I believe what you're saying about the cross-voting. But you - and everyone else - forgot to notice that I also crossed with Zil's vote. And I did indicate that.



If this isn't the worst reason out there for suspecting me.

Here she defends herself.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No, I don't think you're a long-legged elven blonde, I'm not that nuts yet...

But I will not rest, and most definitely will not be assured, until I see my suspicions proven.

++Pitchie

Seriously, he said and did too many things with double-meanings that just smell like Forgery. I will probably have the chance to duck in again before the DL, but just in case I'm voting now. I doubt that anything will come up that will make me change my mind.

The vote for Pitch, whom she'd been after all Day. It was a very iffy case she was making on him, IMO, which was a major reason I voted for her.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That's right as far as I know. Anyone with a Forge mark (ie wolves and KD) will be called a Forge Member if they die. I think we'll know that it's the SH if she's lynched. If she's killed - obviously.

The fact that the KD's role is not revealed upon death makes things much more difficult for the village. It complicates things for the wolves as well, but they have the benefit of knowing something. Also, they can take information from Nightly conversations. For instance, the KD would try to influence the kill, and a wolf could detect that. But ordinary innocents won't know anything.

Interesting how she mentions the pack gleaning info on the KD during the Nightly chats. Didn't Nerwen bring that up as well?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

That's for all of you who couldn't find a single KD clue. ^.^ We know now that he's not the KD, but for all we - and the wolves - kne yesterDay, he mighta been. Though this is the only KD hint I found, and it was said when votes were already starting to fall on him...



I get what you're saying. But, IMO, pressing the point and saying that she may as well be Forging at Night, is a case. And it just sounded ridiculous. The sentense he quoted, albeit a statement, sounds more frivolous than a serious declaration. Reminds me of myself in your game, when I tried to lynch someone for a joke-post.

Upon rereading, I come to be more and more suspicious of Pitchie and Phantom. I can see the twain awake at Night together. "Their swords and their councels may have two edges".... or something of that sort.

And it certainly makes it more difficult for villagers and wolves alike if they don't know the KD's identity. But especially villagers.

She defends her suspicions of Pitch, and brings tp into it again.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I found something else rather curious. TP voted Pitch. Pitch voted Bom. Bom voted TP. Interesting triangle. Contradictory conclusions are the only ones that come to my mind atm, so I'll have to address this again after a night of sleep. From the first look, Pitch and Phantom come out clean and shiny from yesterDay's vote. But I won't rule out a wolf-on-wolf yet. Fine. Forger-on-Forger. But I will still call them wolves. Evil werewolf spirits remain such regardless of who they posess and what shape they take. *stares at phantom*

And since I'm here, I can also say that Pitch is acting abnormal toDay, making an elephant out of a fly with Rikae. This isn't supposed to be related to my previous statement - at least in my head, - but they both stand... I think...

That's it. Bedtime. I'm stuttering in typing.... if that made any sense..... *head drops, eyes close*

Links Bom, Pitch, and tp by their Day 1 votes.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Sure did. And Wilwa hardly said anything at all!

I can't stay for long or go searching for interactions and etc, but from toDay's posts, Pitchie's case against Rikae feels a bit... fabricated. I'll be back later with my thoughts in full...

This was the first post of Day 2, and where she started in on Pitch.

She was consistent on Day 2, keeping on Pitch, and to an extent, tp. She doesn't really come across as the KD early in the Day. If she wasn't the KD, all the suspicion against Pitch and tp was a frame-up. But that would implicate Forgers in her lynch.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I intend to be back before I have to go tomorrow, so I may yet retract, but hopefully he starts talking before I have to go. I'm not buying this "be careful HUSH UP OR YOU'RE MODFIRED" business from phantom. Who do you suspect Pitch, why, and why do you think Rikae was asking if others thought you're hints strange?

Rikae was definitely going out of her way to look like the KD yesterday. Maybe it was a Forge plan all along, and it was a last desperate attempt to drag the real KD out. I don't know, but I do know you've been in the middle of everything since Day 1. With Bom's lynching, your plea to not want to see phantom lynched, Gal's lynching....time to spill it. You know way too much.

I don't see what good could come for one of the Forgers to die in an attempt to look like the KD, not after having Bom and Gal lynched. Unless if somehow Gal was the KD, and Rikae covered for the rest of her pack to make it look like she was? Again, I don't see the benefit there.

*shrug* Maybe that's what phantom's hinting about up there?
EDIT:X'd with Zil.

[McCaber]

Unfortunately, Pitchwife and phantom have been extremely cryptic, and the rest of toDay haven't given me much to go on.

Inzil I'm almost positive is innocent, Boro and Eruhen are as close, Nerwen and Mith are unlikely candidates, and as strange as tp's been toDay I'm still not comfortable voting him.

So I'm looking at a handful of nothing as far as voting candidates go. If I don't get any insights in half an hour or so, I'll probably go with Pitch, for lack of a better candidate.

[McCaber]

I'm out. I need to be at work in seven hours, so without further ado
++Pitchwife

[Boromir88]

2 lightning strikes landed practically right on top of our house and power's out. I've got a little over an hour of battery on my laptop, but...this didn't take long to read.

I was hoping Pitch would have replied.

Ah well, in that case all I'll say is hi-ho, hi-ho off to the bus I go. And knowing what happened last time I had to be gone for the weekend...I care not what happens to me, but don't let phantom convince you I will make some miraculous return to save and prove some genius plan of his. I won't and if he tries that one again, he should probably be lynched.

[Mithalwen]

I for one have no desire for a repeat performance of that horror.....

[Inziladun]

Here's something to consider, in light of the votes for Pitch toDay.

G55 was after him all day yesterDay, and she was lynched. If Pitch is indeed a Forger, why wasn't the pack satisfied with the death of G55? Wouldn't it have seemed likely to them that they'd gotten the KD? Why then go after Rikae?

[Finduilas]

I'm confused as to how Pitchwife has suddenly earned several peoples mistrust. He was the first to vote for both Bom and Gal55, if I remember correctly, so he seems to be rather accurate at pinpointing forges... I'm guessing people are considering him to be a forge that is killing off all his members, and then he is going to try to win single-handedly?

Pity I didn't get on fast enough to ask that question of either Boro or McCaber.