Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[Thinlómien]

Feeling tired and lazy. Shall go through the posting more or less (probably "less") carefully and then vote.

Un-reps, who would you like to see lynched toDay?

[Thinlómien]

Wait...

Lottie #9

This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you.



...yet.

tp #10

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Lottie #14

Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time!

tp #17 and #18

PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.

Well no, but I would have a good time, so it all balances out, yes? So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

Need a second opinion? Let's ask Emperor Palpatine-

Emperor Palpatine: "Do it!"

Lottie #19

I'm honestly considering it...I won't be able to get online until an hour before DL, and I'll probably not have much time to catch up, much less form opinions, and it is Day 1, after all...you know what, fine.

++The Puddintom for Representative

What the???

Lottie, I've heard your resonings but this is plain weird. Is your mind really that easily turned?

Btw if I may discuss phantom I'd like to say that he'd just love his fellow wolves to vote him as rep because
1) then he gets power and he probably believes to be the most able to use it in the wolf team anyway
and
2) then he has a good excuse not to vote his fellows for a lynch because he hates doing that.
Makes me think that if phantom dies and is proved a wolf, I would really look at Lottie, Sally and Mira. (Just imagine if they would be our four wolves! That would be almost ingenious in its absurdity.)

Back to reread...

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Shasta

You can't simply disregard what can be gained by reading the things that people say, either. I simply do not understand why you're doing so, and saying that we should do the same.

I'm not telling you to disregard what people say! By all means, try to gain a feel for people. I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.

Originally Posted by Phantom

Now, if you're a SoE and you've been hatching plans for various ways to influence the rep voting I'm sure it makes you downright livid when some misbehaving orc votes before you've had the chance to work your charms on them. Well sorry, but that's just tough luck for you.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Now you're chainsawing, Phantom. Come on.

*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc). A part of me is truly curious if any of the attackers of those ladies are truly of that mindset, but I'm fully aware odds are it isn't the case with most.

Oh, and just because I am evil, here is a quote from me at the very beginning of the last voting republic style game we did with Fea-

Originally Posted by me, WW LIII

I bet if we made a list of suspects right now, before anyone has even started talking, we'd be just as accurate as we would be at sundown.

Encouraging thought, yes?

To which you replied-

Originally Posted by Shasta, WW LIII

More like pessimistic thought, but sadly you're probably correct.

See? You used to agree with me about this sort of thing.

And Folwren, m'dear, you actually proved my points quite nicely when you were talking about Mira.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Chances are, she was acting flippantly, like most people do on day one, and was running with Phantom's joke. If it had not been for the fact that the discussion about Phantom's voters had been going on all day, her vote would have been perfectly acceptable as a first day sort of jokingness.

Thank you!! This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!

That's what I've been arguing the whole time! That this sort of thing is just fine within the scope of Werewolfing and is usually not treated so seriously by so many people! So, there now people. Now that you've seen someone on your side admit to my entire premise (two people actually if you count Shasta from last game), are you able to see where I'm coming from here?

Now I'm just left wondering- are so many people having the same unusual reaction to this due to some sort of plan, or is it simply the lemming effect that is quite common in these contests?

[Nogrod]

Hah. I finally got a place to sit and to plug my laptop into the mains...

So here's what little I managed to write down while being at home - with a few addenda skimming fast what has happened meanwhile...


Depending on the answer the phantom might have given to my questions (if he has), I’m pending my opinion whether to call for the “historical feat Fea would love so much” and lynch him on D1, or whether to give him a chance to show his qualities this time as well…

ADD: I'm probably not advicing anyone to lynch him but I might complain about his latest explanation anyway.


I think I see where you tp are coming from, but that doesn’t remove the fact that Sally’s vote was soo stupid. I will not vote for Sally for a representative in this game. I can’t let that kind of judgements decide on life and death issues – even if it was made on D1. Really. That’s a promise. Sorry Sally, but you're too reckless. Your try of turning the gaze on Shasta and Nerwen after your return was kind of pathetic – and don’t say you just joked.

I don’t mean playing werewolf should be a grave matter or that winning is important (actually I do prefer a good game lost to a lousy game won), but one should at least try to play by the rules – in their spirit, not only by the book. Light-heartedness can be fun and constructive at the same time. Now it feels Sally just tried to duck the fence from the lowest point to get through to the next Day by allying herself with tp who she knew would then talk on behalf of her if she flattered him enough…

Lottie seems to go to and fro in the beginning and her efforts of trying to cover tp (and her own choice) later have been eyebrow-raising to say the least. The basic problem here is that I know I normally end up suspecting Lottie when she’s innocent and so I’m wavering a bit here. But really, Lottie can’t defend tp for his arguments “containing no illogical jumps” (as she says in response to Foley). Actually this way of clinging to an explanation of her vote provided by the phantom in retrospect looks pretty fishy – whatever phantom’s role.

I do like Nerwen’s attitude but there are two little things you might say are irrelevant, but I find them disturbing enough: she calls those she decides to suspect “orclings” and the suggestion of someone signaling to others when she tried to suspect Lottie is quite odd indeed… like she tried just to add on top of some already existing general suspicions with no real basis…

ADD: Also her latest open suspicion on Mira is more like an easy throw away than anything she would have really contemplated on. I dislike Mira’s vote as well, but really, it looks like she just didn’t read the thread…

And then there’s this.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Maybe he means he can't be around?

Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).

Originally Posted by Lommy

Then to the rep choices... I kind of like them, but I have a feeling there's at least one if not two SoE among them simply because so many people I think innocent are NOT among the reps.

Interesting point from Lommy. I do belong to those people who think we can lynch a villain on D1 in a normal game, and that those who diss D1’s are more often than not villains themselves (villains love randomness – or talking about the randomness of D1 - as it leaves no trace to them), but in this kind of a game I think it would turn out actually good to see one or two enemies on the lines of the representatives on D1. Maybe even toMorrow. Whatever. The point is we should choose also the enemies as representatives on D1 and not only those leaning on the success of the village: that’s the best way to put them into danger. On D1 – and possibly on D2 – probably not much later in the game.

Remember the first things we can read in any way are the choices of the representatives. If all the reps are innocents, and an innocent is lynched, we’re quite easily led to concentrate only on innocents toMorrow. Therefore at this point (at this point, mind you) we need some SoE’s for representatives. I think you Lommy see this, so why bother wailing on it?

ADD:

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm not going to lobby for anyone's lynching when I aint got a clue.

Being a bit too modest or withholding something are you? Really. This just doesn't make sense. And let's not argue about the meaning of the term "lobbying".

EDIT: X'd with Lommy & phantom

[Kath]

Ahem ... hi. Apologies for limited participation toDay. I will read and comment briefly but it won't be particularly in depth!

[Nogrod]

Great udders of relief! Kath is here, naturally - on technical terms - missing D1...

[Thinlómien]

Lottie is really very careless and confident in the beginning of Day1. Reminds me of a wolf who's happy with her pack and thinks they'll win... or a happy-happy orco. She also gives the impression that she is voting first and then coming up with reasons afterwards. Hmm... Wonder if I should change my mind about her.

I might also take my word back on not voting phantom. His frolicking really irks me... doesn't he really have more important stuff to say? Admittedly, he's been speaking more sense lately.

Legate's wishy-washiness sort of disturbs me but I think it's just his style and I always suspect him based on that to some extent or another. I think I also suspect Glirdan mostly based on his style as always.

I would put Nerwen and Zil to the same category - I like what they're saying but I don't really trust them. Shasta could almost be there too, but I both trust and distrust him more than the other two. Mostly because I'm imagining him laughing his wicked laugh behind the screen.

Kath should be here. I shouldn't be surprised she misses a Day1 but this one is twice as long as a normal one. (Ha! random non-native English speaker 'downer: "Kath, what do you call this kind of meat?" Kath: "Long." <3)

I'm trying to determine whether Nogrod seems (on second thought) suspiciously refrained - because of wolvishness or because of lack of internet access. Or both? Or neither? Anyway you get my point.

Folwren is smart and funny but I'm wondering if she's as innocent as she seems. There's something quite careful about the way she posts, which could indicate guilt. All in all there is some honest straightforwardness in her habit nonetheless, so I'm not too worried in the absence of further "proof".

Also wondering what to make of the large anti-phantom front (like, people opposing his thoughts and questioning his logic). It might be as simple as that many people saw the flaw in his (honest or schemical) argumentation.

Read the first 2 pages now and starting a new post for further points if there are any... see, I'm keeping the discussion active and learning to make shorter posts!


edit: xed with everybody - good, I'll read and reply before continuing the reread!

[Eönwë]

So... finally caught up... sort of.

Comments to come.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by phantom

I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.

It does. The End.

Originally Posted by phorc

This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!

Unfortunately, Folwren is just one out of the many people who disagree with your point. I proudly disapprove of joke votes and random votes!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think you Lommy see this, so why bother wailing on it?

Because I write on this thread about 90% of what I'm thinking during the game. Writing posts is an essential part of my thought process, and that's why I flip-flop so much. I am not too happy about SoE reps even though there are good sides to that too. Votes are not, after all, the only thing we can base our conclusions on.

Originally Posted by Kath

Ahem ... hi. Apologies for limited participation toDay. I will read and comment briefly but it won't be particularly in depth!

Hi! *waves*


xed with Steonve

[Nogrod]

Heh, I just got your game in the most concrete form tp...

Originally Posted by phantom

*snicker*
I did that on purpose, laddie. Poking the beehive, so to speak, just to see what reactions I got (outrage or glossing over or ignoring etc).

You're like the advents of psychoanalysis who say that every motive in your life stems from the sexual trauma you have for the opposing sex parent of yours - and if the other denies or doesnt't believe your explanation - they say the theory also holds there will be a "defence" in you denying the obvious truth...

And everything here stands or falls with the personal believability of the analyst.

I mean really. You can't say of every suspicion on you that it was misconstructed - or if you have to admit it was well constructed - that you made it on purpose to check things... Or well, you obviously seem to be able to do that, but don't expect everyone to buy it forever.

Although I'd more like to talk about others now. Really.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Indeed. It would be nice to have a couple more who can approach or rival tp's power, for balance.

Why is everyone focusing on either giving the phantom power or negating him? can't we just treat him like a normal representative.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I've been leaning toward Boro, but I could possibly go for Lommy or Wilwa as well, since both seem reasonable at the moment.

So here Inzil is basically repeating Boro's post about balancing phantom with others, even down to the same suggestion of people: Boro and Lommy. I don't know why, but I don't like the implications of this. Of course, he does also mention Wilwa, but he's still mentioning the same thing. If we make phantom the centre of the game we won't be able to catch any elves.


And since everyone's been commenting on it, I just want to say:

Originally Posted by the phantom

You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day.

Basically, I hope that this was just a joke/spoof that your later comments were just a continuation. In my opinion, it is almost always better to wait (if possible) until people have actually posted before voting, so that you can see what you think of them.

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm uncertain of what you're trying to accomplish. Do you wish to keep me in the attractive lynch category without actually accusing, but rather make it look somehow like a logical option to lynch me? That's a typical elf trick. "You'll see I didn't actually suspect him, but he was the logical choice! Don't blame me!"

Hm... It takes one to know one. The elves always accuse others of using "elf trick"s as you call them.


edit: x-ed with Lommy. Also, just note that I wrote this before the phantom officially became phorc.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sally ate a rotten khup-khak. She is excused from participation for the rest of the day.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am back, but I should warn you, I am totally spend and will soon collapse.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

I do agree, that we should all be voting for who we think would do a good job; but who we think is an Orc first. Because an Elf could do a splendid job, but that is counterproductive.

I never suggested this as a rule that should be implemented, I was just sharing my thoughts about what scenario I find most desirable.
I am sorry if I did not make that clear.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nope

Now if I understand Shasta, Nerwen, and Foley's objection to those who voted phantom as a rep, instead of feigning information, it looks like they are feigning ignorance and are hiding behind random votes to look innocent. Eh, as silly as it is, I don't think there's evil intent there. I've already shared my opinion on those three votes, and one thing I will not stand for is to be mis-represented *glares at Rune*



I did not attack either of their votes. I said their votes actually looked innocent.

You said that their actions (including the votes) made them look innocent, but you completely trashed them for voting the phantom. Didn't you tell them that they had no backbone and such?

[Thinlómien]

I like Eönwë's style except for how he keeps coming back to phantom.

Somehow my concentration is failing...

There really is something fishy in Celuien's manner. I think she is too calculationg and too captain obvious-ish.

Now I have reread up until the end of the first half of the Day. Currently feeling like voting Lottie, or possibly splitting to give one gut-feeling vote to Cel.


edit: xed with everyone

[Nogrod]

Bah, well over midnight and I have an early morning call...

So I'm more or less uneasy with Nerwen and Boro. And tp.

But then again I do think we would be foolish to lynch them without better cases than "uneasiness" on D1. We have a host of potential submarines around which would probably be better ideas to try toDay.

Which doesn't mean allowing to phantom's campaign over the randomness of D1's. D1's can be unproductive or even totally uninformative - but the villains can be caught on them as well. This time it doesn't look like we have a good lead (by now - there are still hours to go though) but on some other D1's we do have them.

Of others, I'm a little less convinced of Shasta's goodness (even if I still keep him in my more probably innocent than not -category) and little less bothered about Legate.

Mira I think was clearly someone who didn't read the thread - and as such not someone I would vote for a representative (another promise here) - and where Nerwen's attack on her looks like reeally bad.

Lottie looks first like more or less going by any winds present and then later on as opportunistic - in between the sense she makes.

Sally I think goes to the 50-50 category being just the toying herself with no role or using the "role" of Silly-Sally to her advantage in a bold manner. Might go either way.

I see what you Lommy say about Foley but I like her guts and would like to see more from her.

One of the few I tend to trust a bit are Wilwa (she has fooled me before) and surprise-surprise, Rune (I'm kind of surprised to catch myself saying that!).

I'm a bit torn with Izzy: she feels like she is a bit defensive being a representative whose task it would be to catch elves but then again she seems to speak sense when she speaks of others...

[Thinlómien]

Feeling a bit better about Izzy.

Hmm. That's apparenlty all I have to say about this latter half of toDay!

Shall think about these things but preferably going to sleep in 20 minutes...


edit: xed with Noggggg

[Nogrod]

Still have a half a pint left...

Of whom I didn't say anything?

Celuien
Glirdy
Greenie
Kath
Steve
Inzil

The list kind of talks for itself. Although it must be said that Inzil and also Steve have contributed quite nicely. It just seems I'm really bad at looking more closely on them on D1 and now I have no time for it. I need to step up on that in the future.

Celuien is pretty much odd this time around - is it her trying to play the phantom-fiddle or something else, I don't know. But is it discriminating? Hard to say.

Kath has said just hi and Greenie has been away most of toDay (even if her normally short contributions on the first part of the Day were reasonable as ever - whichever her role).

I have been a wolf with Glirdy a few times quite lately and then he was more or less desperate to reveal his fellow-wolves by praising them to high-heaven. Now I'm not getting that kind of overenthusiasm from him for anyone. But he might just have learned to be a bit more careful... or he's just a plain orc.

Actually I'm quite happy I don't need to vote toDay.

Good luck representatives! Give us an elf.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Sally ate a rotten khup-khak. She is excused from participation for the rest of the day.

She should have eaten muuf-fäns instead.

Ok, so I quickly skimmed (it's nuts, my life has been so boring lately, and then today it was just one thing after another, so I can comment quickly now, and then I probably won't be on til an hour before DL, and than that's it, sorry!)

So phantom is being silly, I think he thinks he makes perfect sense, but he doesn't. Someone who votes later on in the Day may not have any more solid information than they do at the beginning, but they can have more of a hunch, which can make a difference (it's why we wait til the end of the day to vote, and not just throw our votes around right off the bat). Even after a few Days we still don't have 'solid information' on anyone we just have deaths, and than we make connections off that using hunches. It's almost always down to feeling, and you can't have a feel for anything at the start of Day 1. So the votes were bad, they should have waited til later, and we aren't being illogical for thinking so.

Uhm...what else? About the rep voting. Yes it would be very much more exciting if the voting went all over and people had varying amounts of power, but that's disorganised and can be so unpredictable, and makes it more likely for a SoE to end up with too much power. People can vote for whoever they want, I wasn't really putting it out there in hopes of making it a 'rule', I just thought it would make things more organised, I certainly won't suspect someone who decides to give a third vote to someone they trust.

Now about my vote, I have no idea. If the people who voted me in (Boro and Izzy right?) could like write my name in all caps and bold it (WILWA) like so, so that I can see it, and then say who they want to vote for, I'll take those suggestions into consideration and likely go for one of those, because I haven't been around enough to make much of an informed decision, unfortunately, and likely won't have the time too, and since there is going to be so few votes I don't want to make it random, so I'd rather go off their more informed opinions.

I'll try to be back soon.

x'ed with Noggins

[Kath]

Shasta was pretty forceful earlier. Not sure if that's good or bad.

phantom and Nerwen are playing hints. Irritating but normal for those two.

Legate is picking up Lommy's flipflopping. 'Let's not talk about phantom all day.' ... leads to a post all about phantom. But then so was everything else all Day.

Haha and Lommy was either sleepy or just plain grumpy when she wrote her first post! Good points about the early votes though - why vote because you're not around if you're then around. That said in RL werewolf she's evil when acting this way.

Inzil said we don't have to vote anyone for rep, but Fea in the admin thread said that those who don't vote should and will have that used against them. It's a matter of balance I suppose. Do the SoE risk being focused on for not voting, risk voting a fellow SoE to give themselves more power, or risk voting an ordo and hoping they mess up.

I quite like Nog voting for someone he knows to be quiet for Rep. Izzy might not have picked up votes by osmosis like the loudmouths but I think she's a good choice. She's often very good at picking wolves.

With regards to Kath, I've got a feeling she will not be making an appearance today. To the pits with you! Celuien will probably, she's usually pretty busy and quiet, but far less forgetful than Kath.

I love this comment.

I kind of like where Lommy says "I'm not too happy about phantom and me having more power than the others". Just makes me feel good about her.

So that's pretty much what I was thinking as I skimmed through. Not sure what the Reps want from those of us without the power to vote. I'm going to leave it at this as I'm headed to bed.

[Eönwë]

Well, I had a nice long post planned, but it seems to have disappeared. These are the only quotes I hadn't copy-and-pasted into it yet:

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Isn't this the same as the 'two votes per Rep' suggestion? Trying to make a rule in terms of how you vote for your Representative? Because you would need to have one, for a single person to get that much sway. I don't like this idea, because it in no way forces that player with that much power, to work for the better good. Their only consequence would be what? Lynched the next Day for acting poorly with votes? But that would be further detriment to the Cave.

Not really, it just sounds like he wants a bit of excitement as opposed to boring, planned out rules for voting each Day. Basically, for everyone to vote what they want without having to think of tactics. Which would certainly make this game far more interesting (whether or not it decreases our chances of winning).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).

Now this is quite a good point.

Originally Posted by Loslote

As for the 'splitting up votes' idea of Vanilwuffin's and Nog's, I think it's a good idea, especially for the earlier Days. Later on, of course, it'd make sense to give more power to someone who who genuniely trust, as opposed to voting for someone else simply because the person you wanted to represent you already had xyr quota of votes for the Day.

But then, if they weren't evil, they'd just get Night-killed.

I didn't want to mention it, but if we do that then it's pretty obvious that if they're not evil they'll get Night-killed. Unless the Elves want to confuse us by not doing so.

Also, I'm not sure if the second "who" was meant to be a "we", but if it was, I just think that it will be very unlikely for us as a whole to reach a consensus on who is trustworthy (That's the whole point of having more than representative), and anyway, as I just said, they'd get quickly picked off by the wolves.

Originally Posted by the phantom

they and Mira are the only villagers that I know for a fact have voted for a true orc and not a SoE.

Isn't the Undecided Orc still a true orc even if he works for the elves? Just saying.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Oh come on, you walked straight into a point I made earlier- the fact that other votes have merely been, as you stated, a reaction or counter to the first votes! Basically, you're basing your actions upon something that you say shouldn't have happened in the first place, which means that had everyone followed your advice and not jumped the gun, you wouldn't have had any reason to vote later yourself, thus proving me correct when it comes to how incredibly flimsy our day 1 rep voting is going to be.

Something always happens on Day 1. It doesn't have to be two people voting within the first 20 posts on Day 1. And as you can see, that's kept the attention on them the whole Day (and you too, but I'm sure you enjoy that).


edit: x-ed since my last post.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And Folwren, m'dear, you actually proved my points quite nicely when you were talking about Mira.

Thank you!! This has been my entire point all along, Fol! You just said most people act flippantly on Day 1, and you also said that Day 1 joke votes are perfectly acceptable!

Phantom, darling, I was referring only to Mira and the circumstances of her vote, plus my hunch that went along. I was annoyed, I didn't think she was guilty.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Un-reps, who would you like to see lynched toDay?

Phantom.

Class time. Gotta go.

[the phantom]

Just fyi, when it comes to my vote, my only concern is not lynching the Seer. Yeah sure, it'd be nice to hit a SoE, but my primary guiding emotion for my vote here is fear of it trashing our chances via killing our only gifted.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Un-reps, who would you like to see lynched toDay?

For lack of anything better, I'd stick with one on the Sally-Lottie-phantom group.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).

That comment from Nerwen doesn't seem like much to worry about. I don't see it as 'running to the defence' of Boro.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Interesting point from Lommy. I do belong to those people who think we can lynch a villain on D1 in a normal game, and that those who diss D1’s are more often than not villains themselves (villains love randomness – or talking about the randomness of D1 - as it leaves no trace to them)

I hate to keep coming back to it, but that's what I dislike about tp's arguments in favor of Sally's and Lottie's votes: that it doesn't matter because you won't know anything by the end of Day 1 anyway.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Why is everyone focusing on either giving the phantom power or negating him? can't we just treat him like a normal representative.

Easier said than done, but you're right.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

So here Inzil is basically repeating Boro's post about balancing phantom with others, even down to the same suggestion of people: Boro and Lommy. I don't know why, but I don't like the implications of this. Of course, he does also mention Wilwa, but he's still mentioning the same thing. If we make phantom the centre of the game we won't be able to catch any elves.

I liked what Boro was coming out with at the time. Maybe that's why it looks similar.

x/d with all since 256

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Kath

That said in RL werewolf she's evil when acting this way.

If you're talking about the game I think you're talking about, I became grumpy because I didn't have anything else to say and wanted to seem helpful.

Originally Posted by Kath

Not sure what the Reps want from those of us without the power to vote.

For future reference: (preferably reasoned) suggestions of lynch candidates. Criticism towards our own thinking and preliminary choices.

Now wondering whether to give two or three votes to Lottie and whether the last one goes to Celuien or somebody else (phantom?)...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If you're talking about the game I think you're talking about, I became grumpy because I didn't have anything else to say and wanted to seem helpful.

And here I thought it was because I, Feanordo, and dear old Nordog were stealing the lime light with our big pointy teef.

Quick edit- this is referencing a game from June and has nothing to do with anybody's roles now.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Fea

And here I thought it was because I, Feanordo, and dear old Nordog were stealing the lime light with our big pointy teef.

Well also because you two didn't concentrate even though it was the cool game since I got to be wolves with Rikae and Mac!

*quits talking about that game*

Better vote now since Greenie's coming over to use the computer.

++all three votes for Lottie++

A bit less of a shot in the dark than most other options.

[Eönwë]

So, changes in how I view people:

Rune- looks generally innocent.
Shasta - Looks good now, but seemed a bit evil to me at first
Inzil - A few things every so often make me loose a little faith in his innocence, but he still seems good.
Nerwen - Looks very good- too good in fact. Especially since she seems to be jumping on the anti-phantom/Lottie logic bandwaggon
Legate- I like what he's saying, but he seems a bit unusual to me.
Wilwa- There's definitely something wrong here. A hint of Elvishness or something.
Izzy- Looks generally innocent but I don't agree with some of her logic.


And I still don't like Boro.


All other people are under my radar and/or should post more.


A few comments:

The fact that Boro (who I don't think looks innocent) suggested Lommy makes Lommy seem good, because firstly, it seems a little too obvious (trying to get a packmate voted as rep, an anti-phantom in this case); and secondly, she was already popular and looked good, so I think he just latched onto that because she's be an easy person to suggest as the anti-phantom).

The phantom actually doesn't look evil- I just disagree with most of what he's saying, and one of the problems is that it makes me feel like those against him are all good, even though I suspect some for other reasons. However, maybe he's trying to cause controversy to root out the elves. And anyway, it would be a bit pointless to lynch him toDay anyway, when we have nothing against him except his disagreeable posts that advocate/advertise voting for him.

Mira's vote: This is where Zil's "no vote is better than a pointless vote" comes in. What if (however unlikelily) the Seer had come out of hiding and declared phantom an elf. Votes like that would just be sentencing us to doom.

Another thing I've noticed is the phantom-Boro-Inzil triangle. Boro and Inzil attacks phantom, and Inzil even votes Boro for rep. I don't like it at all. It would be a great (and very bold) move for the elves to play.

I will be very annoyed if it turns out that phorc, Sally and Lottie are both Elves. As I believe Greenie said earlier, it's quite likely that one of the two (particularly Sally or Lottie) are wolves, as it would be an almost perfect disguise,

On that note, on the phantom and Lottie teamwork (trying to defend their side): they seem a bit too obvious to be elves, but that's exactly the sort of completely bold and reckless move the phantom would try.





Basically, if I were a rep, I think that I would definitely lynch Boro, but for some reason Izzy doesn't seem so benign to me now either.



---


I apologise in advance for any possible incoherences in this post. I'm so tried I can (literally) barely keep my eyes open at all.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Izzy

If people were unable to get information from other players in regards to their alignment, then what exactly is the point of having a Day phase?

Precisely! Izzy 4 prez.

Originally Posted by Phantom

I'm not telling you to disregard what people say! By all means, try to gain a feel for people. I'm certainly doing it. I'm simply saying don't criticize others for not voting in the same manner as you on a day when it doesn't really make a difference.

Doesn't make a difference in your opinion, which you seem to be confusing with fact (I don't really know why this surprises me). If we weren't meant to take Day 1 seriously then there wouldn't be a Day 1.

Originally Posted by Phantom

See? You used to agree with me about this sort of thing.

Yes, I used to think Day 1 was pointless. I don't anymore. What's your point?

TO IZZY:

If you care to take your humble constituent's opinion into account, I'd like to see Sally lynched today.

Sincerely,

Scavenger Shasta

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this looks a bit odd indeed. Why to run on defence of Boro on such a minor point? I mean the wolves oftentimes feel the threats to be more major than they are (everyone who has been a wolf knows that) and thence they feel the need to defend themselves or their friends in situations where no specific “defence” is needed (see the “confused” smilie there).

I did not defend Boro. You've just decided that's what I was doing. Lommy said, "why did he say such-and-such", and I said, "well, maybe it was because such-and-such"? As a matter of fact, I am quite uneasy about him.

I could ask why you are running to Mirandir's defence– or rather, as it seems jumping on me just for the bare fact of pointing on that her vote was questionable:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also her latest open suspicion on Mira is more like an easy throw away than anything she would have really contemplated on. I dislike Mira’s vote as well, but really, it looks like she just didn’t read the thread…

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Mira I think was clearly someone who didn't read the thread - and as such not someone I would vote for a representative (another promise here) - and where Nerwen's attack on her looks like reeally bad.

And then there's Boro on the same subject:

Mira has no method to her decisions beyond "I like what you're saying, you've got my support. I don't like what you're saying, I'm going to kill you." It makes her a formidable wear-bear because it's nearly untrackable. But ultimately a poor wolf strategy, because you need to work with others and come up with some plan of attack. Trust me, you'd be able to tell if Mira was evil, because even if she would still have no method, her excitement at being evil is simply uncontainable. You would literally be able to read it straight out of her posts.

Interesting jittery tone there.

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, I am back, but I am actually totally exhausted and my toDay didn't go as planned at all, I had only time to check the thread once during the day and not even time to post, and even now I do not feel like having anything clever to add, because most of the thread as I read it sort of merged into one confusing mess.

My thoughts which I can contribute right now are sort of random, whatever somehow caught up my attention, or what sticks out of the general mess. Firstly, even though phantom may be behaving oddly, I still am not okay with the idea to get him straightaway lynched. I think we may learn far more from his actions later, or at least I would still like to try it. Secondly, I really like Eönwë's posts. He says things I mostly really agree with. Thirdly, I am glad Kath is back. Fourthly, as for the ideas of lynching Mira, it also does not seem like a good idea to me, her vote was rather random to be Elf-y, I think - I see it no reason to vote her. Fifthly and lastly, if you asked me about possible Elves, I am generally quite clueless about many people - there's been a lot of back and forth in the thread and generally I had little time to process it very well. If I were to say somebody, I would say either somebody of the still curious pair Lottie-sally the initial phantomvoters (theoretically - possibly - even with tp himself, thinking of that; but like I said, I would still prefer to see more of him, it's nothing concrete), and then Rune with his original possible buttering-up as I said earlier, and now sort of "backed away" attitude (although might be just because he is not in the center of things), or Glirdan with the total under the radar behavior. If I was a rep, I would possibly vote the last one, but not sure.

Okay, as usually I ended up saying perhaps at least something, still, I am mostly tired now and not able to concentrate now anymore. So, good Night, folks... and Reps, vote well...

EDIT: x-ed since Folwren

[the phantom]

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

Lommy- I disagree with the thoughts that led to your vote, but I am at least pleased that out of the S-L-P triangle you chose the corner that you did. It's the most logical from my perspective, though my reasoning would obviously be different than yours.

[Celuien]

Arrr, back at last after running around like a chicken with its head cut off, or perhaps cutting off chickens' heads?

I'll be back in a bit after catching up.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

Lommy- I disagree with the thoughts that led to your vote, but I am at least pleased that out of the S-L-P triangle you chose the corner that you did. It's the most logical from my perspective, though my reasoning would obviously be different than yours.

Hmmn. I believe I know what that reasoning is (if sincere). Now I have to work out how well you'd be able to second-guess me...

I would, at the moment, consider lynching Boro or one of your supporters. No, not because wanting to elect you is inherently suspicious (it is, but but that's beside the point), but because all three have in different ways actually acted quite suspiciously in the course of it.

Originally Posted by Legate

Firstly, even though phantom may be behaving oddly, I still am not okay with the idea to get him straightaway lynched. I think we may learn far more from his actions later, or at least I would still like to try it. Secondly, I really like Eönwë's posts. He says things I mostly really agree with.

Ummm. These comments seem a bit... random. Legate, at this stage there doesn't seem much of a move to lynch the phantom, and if you're talking about Steve's last post it doesn't make much sense at all (due to tiredness, it seems).

EDIT:X'd with Xed.

[A Little Green]

Ouch. I'm here, I skimmed the thread through, had no time to read properly (it's currently 2 AM, my alarm clock goes off in five hours in another part of town and I have a full day of work ahead..) I'm really sorry for this mess, I was meant to have time on the computer during the day but my internet totally failed. + I believe I did say I was going to have a busy day and participate only crappily so I wonder why I was elected to be a rep.. I'll do my best though.

From what I've seen, I'm inclined to think that Lommy, Shasta, Rune, Foley and Nerwen look pretty innocentish. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with phantom and Lottie, and I'll be somewhat surprised if Sally is not an elf.

[the phantom]

Okay, been doing a bit of skimming, and I'm quite certain that today we should NOT lynch-

Phantom
Rune
Sally
Izzy

I wouldn't cry if we lynch one of these-

Boro
Glirdan

I reserve the right to completely flip-flop on all of these tomorrow.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

Who all is a rep, and how many of you are interested in lynching Boro at all?

I'm a rep and I'm not that enthusiastic about lynching Boro - if not that enthusiastic about saving him, either. I have a hard time trying to read him, so I really can't judge.

Gah. I really need to get some sleep now, again so sorry for toDay! I promise to make a better effort toMorrow, if I have internet that is and if I'm still alive.

++ Sally

I hope I'm right. I guess I am.

[Nerwen]

Arrrgh. My internet is showing signs of imminent death. So much as I'd like to chew the fat of who-knows-what-creature with my fellow politigoblins, I'm going to have to vote now.

++Boro for the lynch
++Sally for the lynch.

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[the phantom]

Lommy for Lottie (3)
Green for Sally (2)
Nerwen for Sally (3)
Nerwen for Boro (1)

Lottie- 3
Sally- 3
Boro- 1

STILL TO VOTE:
Phantom: 3
Izzy: 2
Wilwa: 2
Celuien: 2

[Celuien]

As time is fairly short, I won't be able to put a lot of detail into explanations.

I really don't see tp as suspicious today. The worst I think he can be accused of is related to the "vote for me" gambit, which at least stirred up some discussion. So I won't be voting for him unless something drastic happens to change my mind in the next couple of hours.

Likewise, the attack on the early voters for him seems a little silly to me... I've always been in the day 1s are annoying (etc etc) camp, and had I been around before all the controversy started, was thinking of doing the same thing just because tp is tp and it would have amused me. That makes it hard for me to suspect sally and lottie on the mere basis of early phantom voting.

And no, Noggie and Lommie, I'm not playing a phorc phiddle... but I do find it fun to be in-role as an orc. *throws disgusting and probably questionably procured items in a bubbling cauldron of smelly stew* If suspicion of me is only based on being in role, that's interesting, and will place my eye in the direction of said suspectors.

Izzy, Eonwe and Wilworc seem genuine.

Something is bothering me about Boro in his discussion with Mira.

As for the rest, I really can't tell one way or another.

[the phantom]

Anyone can answer this, but in particular I'd like to know what the remaining reps think about Glirdan and Boro.