WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

That is a possibility. . . one that I think is worth considering.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

That is a possibility. . . one that I think is worth considering.

but still, my votes will have to be between Mac and you my dear Rune...

so


++Macalaure

[Kath]

I'm not even supposed to be on here right now so ssh!

But I had an idea. What if we double lynch Volo and someone? What's this, Kath advocating a double lynch? Madness! But, there is reasoning.

There is still some doubt over Volo's role, and this would clear it up as if he is telling the truth he cannot die and it won't affect his standing in the village. If however he is a wolf playing an incredible bluff then, well, then we've bagged ourselves a wolf.

Now we could actually do this just on it's own, except that it's rather a waste either way. I personally would like to see Rune go down with him as he has so far toDay said not one constructive thing. His posts have either been a defense of himself or jumping on the theories of others. I won't vote until later so my mind has time to change, but at the moment I don't think it will.

Anyway, it's just an idea, doesn't have to be done. I'm actually a little wary of suggesting it as it may leave another less helpful voting analysis to be done by those that do them, but I thought it was worth putting out there.

[Macalaure]

Ah! I see I'm being suspected upon the basis of some serious and well-thought arguments.

My defending Boro and thinking him innocent is suspicious? May I remind you folks what the reasons for the votes for Boromir were?

Volo said "something looks very wrong there"
Legate said "a lot of wacky theories"
Aganzir said "I'm afraid I have no idea who I really want to see dead"
Diamond did a quick read-through, felt she had do decide between Legate and Boro and found Legate more helpful. No word on why Boro is more suspicious
Rune retracted to Boro from me for whatever reason

This was plain madness, and I'm sorry if you don't see it this way.

I know Diamond has little time on your hands, but her votes look increasingly wolvish.
Gil-Galad is right at the top of my to-lynch list right now.

*polishes his scimitar*

[Macalaure]

Rune Whelp of Bjarne


Day Two

#139
He jokes and states the obvious.

#142
He responds to Gil-Galad with the same sudden defensiveness that we have already witnessed before, but then he says "It might as well speak for you innocense as your guilt."
In the end: much ado about nothing.

#167

Originally Posted by Rune

My talking about irrelevant stuff is mostly because I am trying to hide the fact that I do not have any good suspicions, I am constantly hoping that the next time I read through some post that something will jump into mind.

This is very interesting: He admits his own fault of having no good suspicions in order to get away with another post of irrelevant stuff. This confession of minor faults in order to increase one's credibility is something I did some times in the one game that I was evil.
He then continues with some obviousnesses about double lynchings

#170
This post looks to me like he has now realised that he cannot make it through completely without making any points. The comment of mine which he picked up looks almost as if picked up at random. To found his suspicion of Brinniel upon it is a very, very weak point. He also says that Gil "is an ordo once again or that he is a cunning wolf", which has absolutely no content. Actually, Rune and Gil look more and more like wolvish comrades to me.

#172
He goes back to his suspects of yesterDay (ouch!), but realises he obviously can't vote Volo any more. He relativises his suspicions of Brinniel and Gil and does a quick analysis of me (exclusively about Day One). He votes me on the basis of this.
This whole post looks extremely contrived, I'm sorry.

#201
He retracts from me to Boro without giving any reason.


Day Three

#233
He complains about the votes for him and defends his own vote vigorously.
Actually, I don't even think his vote itself is that suspicious. It's the badness of its reasoning. Though it is also possible that he wanted to save Wolf-Legate (I'm not as convinced of Legate's wolfdom as SPM is) but didn't want people to turn towards himself if it fails. But this is a very vague theory.

#235
He apologises for his harshness, which of course is a good thing, but then it also echoes #167 again.

#239
He tells Gil the Confused that Boro was an ordo.

#241
After Gil has bent his own argument by 180 degrees, Rune thinks it's worth considering.
Honestly, I can only shake my head at this.


I am now very convinced that Rune is a wolf and quite convinced that Gil is one, too. There are some others which I would maybe put into the same bag at the moment, but I don't want to complicate matters unnecessarily. One wolf after the other.

[Brinniel]

Yeesh...I was gone for what...10 hours, and expecting there to be a flood of posts. Yet, there was really not much at all for me to catch up on. Well, I'm sure there will be plenty of more posts when I come back in the morning.

Anyways, to keep track of the voting so far:

Diamond: ++Mac (Mac- 1)
Volo: ++Rune (Mac-1, Rune- 1)
Shasta: ++Rune (Mac- 1, Rune- 2)
Gil-Galad: ++Mac (Mac- 2, Rune- 2)

Originally Posted by Kath

But I had an idea. What if we double lynch Volo and someone? What's this, Kath advocating a double lynch? Madness! But, there is reasoning.

There is still some doubt over Volo's role, and this would clear it up as if he is telling the truth he cannot die and it won't affect his standing in the village. If however he is a wolf playing an incredible bluff then, well, then we've bagged ourselves a wolf.

An interesting idea. This indeed could help guarantee us whether he is Innocent or not. And if Volo really is being honest and he cannot die, then he should have no objections to a double-lynch involving him. But then, I have my doubts that this would work as it would take a lot of cooperation from everyone. And considering the chaotic ends to our Days so far, I don't know if that could happen.

Alright, I need to put up some thoughts on everyone as of now:

xyzzy: He said on the admin thread he would be around toDay, but still no sign of him. Nothing I can really say here.

SPM: He seems so certain that Legate is guilty, he is willing to put his life on it, which is strange, not to mention risky. Yet, I doubt a wolf would be so bold, especially since Legate has been highly suspected since Day 1.

Rune: I am still very suspicious of him for the same reasons I was yesterDay. No change here.

Legate: I'm still feeling a bit uncertain of him and I really wish we could hear from him toDay, but I realise that won't be happening. Still, he is swaying more on the suspicious side for me partly because of old reasons, and also because of the timing of his vote for Boromir. It seemed to me he was trying to help get a bandwagon going, which was, in fact, successful.

Shasta: A rather seemingly cheerful fellow, I would say. I don't really like how he's voted so quickly these past two Days with little explanation, though maybe this is due to time reasons. But right now, there is nothing I can find particularly suspicious about him.

Diamond: I don't see anything suspicious when looking at her vote for Boromir alone. However, I feel like she has put little substance into her her posts until toDay when she voted for Mac. I'm not sure exactly what that means...

Kath: Since Day 1, she has suspected Rune with almost as much certainty that SPM has against Legate. Her case against Rune is actually quite reasonable, and I don't really see any reasons to suspect her. If she does turn out to be a wolf, props to her for completely fooling me.

Aganzir: She seemed so innocent to me before, but I find her vote yesterDay for Boromir rather alarming, especially since she didn't really give a reason for it. She's certainly not at the top of my suspects, but I certainly want to keep an eye on her from now on.

Anguirel: Oh geez...I'm still so confused on what to think of him. Such a tough player to figure out. He still hasn't shown up toDay, and I would like to hear from him. But right now, I have no idea.

Mac: His last comment yesterDay about Boromir's innocence indeed could be coming from a wolf trying to draw away suspicion. Yet, while I would like to keep a close eye on him, I do not think it is a good idea to lynch someone based on one comment alone, as it could've also come from an Innocent blurting out his thoughts without thinking of the consequences.

Gil-Galad: Due to his scarce posting compared to his flood posting when he was a wolf, I really haven't considered him. But toDay, when he says he is probably going to vote for Rune, after going back and forth in conversation with him, he suddenly jumps on Mac, which I find to be alarming. If Rune is a wolf, I think it may be possible Gil is one as well.

Volo: I still feel the same about him. While there may be a chance he is lying about his role, I really doubt that.

Suspicious:
Rune
Legate
Gil-Galad

Slightly Suspicious:
Aganzir
Mac

No Idea:
Anguirel
xyzzy
Shasta
Diamond

Possibly Innocent:
Kath
SPM

Innocent:
Volo

Time for me to go to bed now. I'll try to be back in around four hours if I can get myself up that early...

EDIT: X-ed with Mac's last post (whoa, did I really take over an hour to write this up?! I'm so slow... )

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

SPM: He seems so certain that Legate is guilty, he is willing to put his life on it, which is strange, not to mention risky. Yet, I doubt a wolf would be so bold, especially since Legate has been highly suspected since Day 1.

Yet I did so when I was a wolf in Oddwen's game...

Originally Posted by Kath

But I had an idea. What if we double lynch Volo and someone?

We could try if you really feel that I'm lying, though doing the double lynch might be hard... Better we consentrate on lynching the wolf as that itself is problematic with so many evil creatures hopping around.

Gah. The only action I feel like taking that won't boil my head is looking at Kath and Brinniel, again.

EDIT: ...in Oddwen's game and it would have worked too if not for you meddling Seer! Well, we won anyway. Thanks Holby and Nilp.

[Volo]

Kath:

#25: Pure in-character. Ah, wait, no:

On that subject there is a point I would like to bring up but I may wait until tomorrow or even the next Day to do so, as it's one that can cause a first Day to descend into a flurry of arguments the likes of which we see every time.

What's this? Something to do with me and Aganzir?

#51: Changes mind about the quote above, if I understand her right.
Much ado about nothing. Or at least too much ado about barely anything. I'm really mystified how Kath turned such a post out of nowhere. No, I'm not saying that it doesn't say anything truthful. On the contrary, I'm saying that the post holds too much of the obvious. And especially how she congatulates people on how great "points" they have made looks suspicious. The "Nice Cuddly Wolf"? The only thing that really turns everything around is her vote for Rune, though Rune wasn't in real danger there and I'm pretty sure Rune doesn't mind being the "Martyr Wolf".

A hard post that one. One thing is certain: Kath used a lot of time on it. What do you, fellow innocents, think? (Wolves stay quiet.)

#146 : Hmm... I started off this analysis thinking of Kath as, well, anything, probably innocent, but now she's falling into the Wolf category pretty neatly. Anyway: Am I the only one who finds this post a bit plastic? As if Kath knew that Mith was going to be killed? Ok, the post doesn't come 2 seconds after the Daybreak, but still... Or am I just paranoid and unfamiliar with Kath's style?

Anyway, the part about "Newbie Wolves" raises my alarms the most. Gloating? The Wolves in truth all old times?

#177 : (On side note: So Legate saw Sixth innocent even because Sixth didn't start a bandwagon! ).

(Sorry if that's confusing, I know there are far too many he's and him's.)

No, that's not confusing, but what is confusing is that your thought s about Legate defending Sixth make zero sense. The ideas of what Legate would do is just too far fetched, I think that nobody in his right mind would claim somebody innocent because of those reasons...

I think Volo might be clutching at straws a bit there.

And I think that my analysis of Aganzir was damn good too. But alas, I regret it now... Actually this part is pretty much like what Kath is describing what Legate did about Sixth, seeing that Aganzir would probably die, Kath said that Aganzir is innocent (Not an accusation, just pointing out that the logic doesn't work.).

Rune still has my back up. His posts toDay have been just as empty of any susbtance and yesterDays. The one about the double-lynching was particularly useless, as it was something everyone knows, just as what he said about Gil was obvious.

And Mith or somebody pointing out the same obvious stuff isn't guilty? The way Kath targets Rune does make me wonder...

I think the most innocent thing Rune has done is not to change his vote from me. I really think that it was pretty irrelevant.

He also seems to be jumping on what other people say. A couple of people start talking about Brinniel and suddenly he thinks she's the most suspicious thing ever? Plus, having previously said that he isn't going to focus on Gil anymore he brings up that point about Gil posting differently again. Finally, when he votes his suspicions of Gil and Brinniel take a backseat to Mac, who hadn't yet been mentioned toDay.

But here's a point I agree with. Not so much the Brinniel part as the Gil-Galad part.

#229 : This post doesn't feel too evil, but I must disagree about Shasta. I'm not saying that he can't be a Wolf, but his thought that I'm what Legate is looks more like a simple mistake...

#243 : The obvious thought, can't really say that this looks suspicious.


On the whole:

I'm pretty lost here too. Kath seems to be the "Friendly Wolf" type if she's a Wolf, which is pretty probable. A lot of text and praise for barely anything.

The very strange obsession with voting Rune. Here it's obvious to think "Seer!" and do think that indeed. But if I'm right, there was no dream on Night 1.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Night One has begun. Wolves begin your fiendish plotting. Others, hold your horses.

A few contradictions I've marked in the analysis.

On the whole the tone isn't that suspicious as Kath seems to put a lot of effort into the game and her posts are readable and without too many unnecessary stylistic tricks that make you feel like the writer is a genious but in fact doesn't say anything. (But that's a minor detail conserning Wolves.)

I even went as far as reading through a few of Kath's posts from Oddwen's game in which Kath was the wrongly lynched Hunter.
In the current the style is completely different from this post, but comes close to the style here . Is Kath always praising people to the level of suspicious?


Xd with everybody since my last post. Goin out now.

EDIT: :O Didn't X-post with anybody! Speak up!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Volo

Yet I did so when I was a wolf in Oddwen's game...

Yeah and no matter which other thing Brinniel would have chosen as something she did not think a wolf would do, we could find an example that shows that a wolf actually did do that.

Originally Posted by Mac

It's the badness of its reasoning.

Do I really have to listen to stuff like this?

Non has pointed out what about my reasoning for Mac was so awful that it has to tricker my death!

Other people voted for random people with far less reasoning than I, but I guess that matters not.

I am also suprised that you talk about bad reasoning when you, yourself cannot recognise my retracted vote as self-preservation and presents it as something suspiciouse.

Originally Posted by Kath

Now we could actually do this just on it's own, except that it's rather a waste either way. I personally would like to see Rune go down with him as he has so far toDay said not one constructive thing. His posts have either been a defense of himself or jumping on the theories of others

Me defensive? That sure is strange and wolfish!

Maybe if half of the crew had not jumped on my bag with drawn knifes I would be less defensive and maybe then I would also have the extra energy to actually direct some of my focus on others.

You guys are giving the wolves so much space to hide with this joint case and normally I am alright at picking out wolfish attacs on me, but you are all saying the same things.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rune

Non has pointed out what about my reasoning for Mac was so awful that it has to tricker my death!

It comes out of nowhere. You haven't even mentioned me so far the whole day, except when you founded your suspicion of Brinniel on my, apparently wolvish, comments. Your explanations for the vote consist exclusively of Day One stuff, you seem to have intentionally ignored what I've said on Day Two.
Altogether this is, I'm afraid to say it, very wolvish.

Originally Posted by Rune

Other people voted for random people with far less reasoning than I, but I guess that matters not.

It does. I am suspicious of Gil, Aganzir and Diamond, for example, but I just happen to be more suspicious of you. You have surely noticed that my suspicion is based on more than just the vote.

Originally Posted by Rune

I am also suprised that you talk about bad reasoning when you, yourself cannot recognise my retracted vote as self-preservation and presents it as something suspiciouse.

Granted, you're right in that point.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

It comes out of nowhere. You haven't even mentioned me so far the whole day, except when you founded your suspicion of Brinniel on my, apparently wolvish, comments. Your explanations for the vote consist exclusively of Day One stuff, you seem to have intentionally ignored what I've said on Day Two.
Altogether this is, I'm afraid to say it, very wolvish.

Exactly and that was why I reffered to my Day 1 suspicion of you. . . Plus it was a matter of me having to vote with no real top-suspect, so I chose a few people and read through most of their post and that was the best case I saw.

When you are pretty much lost (as i did say I was) and are forced to vote so long before deadline then these things happen.

I still think the case is alright though. . . . I grant you that it is not the best in the world, but definitly alright.


Edit:

Sorry I miss read Mac's post and therefor my reply might seem weird.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Your Day two stuff was of no interest, nothing at all was worth mentioning and that does not mean you are innocent. That is just how it is when I read posts, I only find interesting stuff in like 10%.

Interesting = Things that points towards guilt or innocens

[Anguirel]

I decided on a novel tactic today. Read but don't talk. Not my kind of thing, but I'm dabbling with it as an experiment.

Would a wolf-Sauce go so all out on a duel as this one he's having with Saruman? I don't quite believe so. I think that in so far as one can generalise this particular caterer's style, he's more vehement (as he's being at the moment) when innocent, but likes to store up some credibility when a wolf by not committing himself too drastically (though usually pretty drastically).

What I'm getting at is that Sauce, like me on occasion, is very prone to duelling with innocents. That's what seems to me to be going on here, and the rest of you seem to agree because you're striving to explore other options, e.g. Rune and Mac, avoiding the duellists.

But if one of them is guilty I'd still plump for Sauce.

My rationale yesterday was challenged, especially by Volo and Sauce. The thing is that many werewolves love to snuggle in on a consensus. It was therefore interesting to see exactly who attacked Volo before everyone was turned off by his revelation - and why they did. I thought Brinniel's actions looked tentative and out of the blue so I zeroed in on her.

I will probably help lynch Rune today, as he's my main suspect currently in the spotlight.

I'm feeling a bit helpless to be honest. About the Gifted roles - I imagine we can expect more combo-madness. To think what a Ranger-Assassin could have achieved...in many ways a role I'd have loved to possess. Incredibly frustrating. Ah well.

[Kath]

Ooh suspicion, was wondering when that was going to turn up. I suppose I'd best defend myself somewhat. Let's see.

That thing I was going to mention but never did was purely because I changed my mind, and no it was nothing to do with you or Aganzir. Why should it have been? Was there something on Day 1 between the two of you I should have noticed? If you want to know what it was I was going to mention it was a point about Legate that I have since brought up I think, the one about it looking like he was trying to get Gifted's to reveal. I have been in too many villages where Day 1 discussion is dominated by that argument and didn't want to have the same one again.

As for your comment about Mith, I had come back and flicked through the posts before making a short one of my own before I went off to write a mammoth LJ post. If it feels plastic it's probably because it was written in very little time and almost in draft form, as I was noting down points as I went along.

Um, I don't entirely understand the thing you're saying about Legate and Aganzir. I didn't think that Aganzir was going to die, as far as I recall she didn't even have any votes.

Stylewise I wouldn't bother concentrating on my past games. My style changes constantly depending on how much time I have and how I'm feeling more than role. Yes, I do praise people. I like to see others making good points (mostly 'cause it means I don't have to come up with them myself!) and if someone says something I agree with or I think good then I praise them for it.

As for Rune, I keep attacking him because I think he's suspicious. He has still not said anything constructive. He claims it is because everyone keeps jumping on him. OK, so defend yourself once and move on. We'll jump on you less if you show us something useful.

Now, I know that it is difficult to do, but I really think this double lynch idea could work for us. The more Volo speaks the more I move into the camp that says maybe, just maybe, he isn't what he says he is. I would love for him to be a known innocent, and what luck we have in that we can prove it without killing him! Is anyone interested in this? If not I'll be quiet about it but it doesn't do us any harm and it may do us a lot of good.

So few have spoken so far toDay. It's worrying really, and especially bad that Legate is away as he's a strong suspect to quite a few people. Let's just hope more turn up soon. I'll be around for a while yet.

[Anguirel]

Come to think of it Kath, maybe, just maybe I ought to suspect you...typically low-key but thorough appearances...very, very consistent attacks which is a way of being less helpful than you seem...you would be especially deadly if combined by some freak combination of the stars with that sweetie Brinniel.

I'm going to do some more reading. Urrrgh...

[Anguirel]

No, scratch that Kath, I do think you're innocent. That double-lynch with Tolkien plan seems to me too off-piste and bizarre to fit with the profile I gave you above (essentially that of a stereotypical Kathwolf). You are using your head to greater extent than I.

Now where is that Diamond? I think Audrey must have a case of ennui again. Can't say I blame her, but it is a convenient pose and if she awakes from her languor occasionally to nail decent citizens like Boro then it looks fairly diabolical.

May well vote for her.

[Kath]

Oh yes, and I was going to look at the Boro voters from yesterDay.

Volo - began the anti-Boro thing by saying that he was acting un-Boro-ish, a point thought off by Sauce and I do agree, as Boro hadn't had the time needed to act like himself.

Legate - picks up on Volo's point and proceeds to expand upon it, pretty much condemning Boro within one post. Thinks there is a connection between Sauce and Boro, with Boro basically covering Sauce by putting the attention on Ang and Legate. Odd logic indeed. He says that by not really mentioning him (i.e. Legate) it will make people look more at him, but then he says that by not mentioning Sauce it will make people think he's innocent. Very twisted reasoning there. He then makes a pretty cutting analysis of Rune, but even though he finishes by deciding that he's suspicious he still goes and votes Boro, without the latter having been mentioned in the previous post.

Aganzir - was suspicious of Boro due to his vote for himself, which is reasonable. We who are used to Nilp don't really bat an eyelid at such antics anymore, but for someone who hasn't seen that particular tactic before it would certainly get your attention. Voted for Boro because none of her other suspects looked likely to be lynched.

Diamond - pops in at the last minute and votes Boro to save Legate. It would be a very risky thing to do if both she and Legate were wolves, but it's certainly not unheard of.

Rune - switches to Boro at the very last minute for, uh, no reason! Self-preservation he says, but he wasn't in danger. The flurry of last minute voting was all around Boro and Legate. Perhaps a wolvish Rune just making sure a wolvish Legate stays safe? Again risky, but possible.

So, who of these could be wolves?

Well we know my thoughts on Volo and Rune already and what I want to do about it so I'll leave that be, though that vote for Boro just makes the latter look even more suspicious to me.

Sadly Legate isn't with us toDay so there's going to be no new information to base anything off. Based on the posts of the past 2 Days though I'd say he could well be a wolf.

I'm still thinking Aganzir is innocent. Her posts, the tone used and the content, all of it strikes me as innocent.

I'm not sure on Diamond, haven't really seen enough of her. Since I think both Rune and Legate are wolves I'm not sure I can consider her one. I mean, two wolves in this bandwagon is a lot, three is just insane! In addition, the vote made sense. When she turned up it was a choice between Boro and Legate and she voted for the one she thought the least useful. Since that's what I'm basing a lot of my argument against Rune on I can hardly argue against it.

So ... double lynch anyone? 'Cause I really, really want some hard evidence as to Volo's role. If he hadn't revealed he'd be on my list as a wolf anyway with his posts.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have lost faith in this and in my chances of saving my self, therefor I will give Kath something useful.

I was your last line of defence! I am your Ranger/spy

My role was the one of a normal Ranger, but I could also chose to spy on people during night. I would only be told whether those i spyed on was ordos, special role or if it was my twin role!

Lommy of course was my twin role and that was the reason for my outburst. . .It was very tragic-comic that I chose to spy on her rather than protect her that night.

Now I also had my first spying and I spottet a person that has a special role, I am a bit torn on whether I should reveal it as it could be our seer.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am going to my fathers now so I will not be able to respond for at least 30 min. probably more.

It is unfortunate, but that is how it must be.

[Volo]

Who has the special role, I don't frankly believe you.

[Kath]

Well, that just sucks. You have my apologies Rune, guess the old Gifted/wolf similarities were catching me out again. Of course this could be one heck of a trick, since Lommy is dead she can't deny or confirm this. Oh, and as to whether you should reveal who you spied on, do you see wolves and Gifteds differently or not? If not then don't reveal. We need the Seer too badly.

But you know what;

++ VOLO

It's killing me not knowing. If I get no support I'll retract, most likely to Legate as he was the one I found next most suspicious after Rune.

[Brinniel]

Oh my. I was certainly not expecting this.

Now, of course, you could be lying, but then I remember this narration:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Two trailers were watched by unseen eyes that night; but for what purpose I cannot say.

As twin roles, this line starts to make sense. I was wondering why it said "two trailers," but now I see that perhaps this could hint one trailer was watched by Lommy, and the other by Rune.

I was planning to vote for Rune, but I'm not sure what to do now. I need to take another look through the thread. Unfortunately, I need to vote within the hour as I have to be at work a half an hour before the deadline...

[Volo]

I don't fully trust Rune as that role could have been easily invented, and I'll even prove why I don't think that there is a role like that.

I'm not a the Reincarnation or whatever.

I'm the Medium! That is a mixture of a Seer and well, the Reincarnation or whatever.

I get a phrase from LotR from Rikae each Night. The phrase refers to a Downer and his/her role.

It needs some thinking to understand the "riddles", so it isn't 100% Seer information.

That is why I attacked Aganzir so badly at first. But then I rethought the phrase and decided that she isn't a Wolf.

I got a phrase about Legate the next Night. He is not a Wolf!

The Reincarnation part is that I have (only ) one extra life. If I'm lynched or killed I lose my extra life and become just a crippled Seer.

I hope you believe this. And I think that Mac is a Wolf if Rune talks true. I will not vote Rune, but his role is strange because even my Seerdom is not as good as the basic Seer's!

[Macalaure]

Even though I don't entirely trust Rune, I guess it is now time to look for an alternative lynching (especially since I don't want that alternative to be my humble self).

Saucepan Man, Brinniel, Kath and Anguirel are all more or less innocent in my book (though it's not impossible that there is still one cunning wolf among the four). I don't want one of them to be lynching toDay.

I can't say a lot about Shasta and xyzzy. I would vote one of them in order to save myself, but it's quite a shot into the dark.

Legate - I'm not convinced of his guilt, but I would give it a try. It's a bit mean, though, since he's not here toDay.

Gil - As I said, I think him to be wolf and would truly like to see him gone, now that I can't have Rune.

Aganzir - Might be guilty, might be innocent. I'm a bit torn about her, but in the end I could live with voting her.

Diamond - There is very little to go on, but the little that we have does point somewhat towards her guilt. A semi-shot-into-the-dark.


edit: x-ed with Volo.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rikae, Night2

In one trailer, a Downer flipped randomly through a copy of LOTR, then, finding something, sat back and frowned, deep in thought.

Well, I think that's more believable than the Reincarnation thing only.

Now it should be safe for Rune to tell who he had spied (if we assume there's no more special roles, which is probable). If it's not Volo, then we should have a wolf there.
If I understood correctly, Rune doesn't know any ordos yet?

[Kath]

Uh huh. Two revelations in a matter of minutes. But if Volo is who he claims to be then Rune, feel free to reveal who you spied on. I think I'm right in thinking Volo Seer would be the last person with a special role who is on our side?

But really, I don't like this revelation of Volo's. Firstly his death doesn't do him any harm at all and now suddenly he becomes pretty much ordinary if he's lynched or attacked? Good way to get out of being lynched for your role to be proven. It's a bit fishy. And the role is so similar to the lynch Seer idea he came up with. Maybe Rikae took some ideas from him, it's possible after all as roles tend to stay around, but I don't know. I just don't like it.

I want to see what Rune says when he comes back.

[Volo]

No, I don't lose my dream skill when I'm first "killed". But I can't choose of whom I dream.

I'll trust Rune for now, because I don't think we have any better choice. He'll die next Night anyway if he's who he claims to be. I'll still have two dreams from this moment and I hope that they help us to survive.

I'll change my vote as soon as Rune reveals the Wolf as there are only three Gifteds if Rikae didn't cheat with her narrations.

EDIT: And Kath goes up on my suspect list.

[Brinniel]

Oh gosh...

I can't say I 100% believe you Volo, still I think it's more likely you are innocent than wolf.

My second most suspicious character was Legate, and now you say he's innocent. Though we cannot be completely positive, as there is always a possiblity you misinterpreted the riddle. How sure are you?

Originally Posted by Volo

I'll change my vote as soon as Rune reveals the Wolf as there are only three Gifteds if Rikae didn't cheat with her narrations.

I wouldn't say that. Don't forget this:

Originally Posted by Rikae

When the 13 remaining members of the cast and crew discovered the wolves' handiwork in the morning, all of them wept openly...but five were gloating in their hearts.

I'm pretty sure this still means we have a cobbler on our hands.

Okay, I'm really not sure who to vote for, but I'm thinking it may be either, Mac, Diamond, or Gil.

I have to leave for work in five minutes, so I cannot wait for Rune to reveal the special role.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Volo

I hope you believe this. And I think that Mac is a Wolf if Rune talks true. I will not vote Rune, but his role is strange because even my Seerdom is not as good as the basic Seer's!

Rune would not have voted for Mac so comfortably if he couldn't be sure whether he was a Gifted or a Wolf.
The others he kept mentioning often were Gil and Brinniel, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of them was something special (wolf or cobbler). If it was not Volo who he had spied... Rune, where are you when we need you?

edit: adding quote:

Originally Posted by Rune

Of these Mac is the one I am most comfortable voting for today, Gil I will give a chance to prove him self and Brinniel I need to watch for a bit.

I think this points to Brin, but maybe it's better to wait for Rune to come.

[Brinniel]

Okay, here I go:

Mac is starting to look more and more suspicious to me, but I'm still not sure of his guilt. Just because he suspected Rune, doesn't mean he's a wolf, I mean a lot of us suspected Rune. Though he's definitely not in the clear. Still, I'm short on time here and I would really like to take a closer look at him before voting for him. I'm leaving him alone for now and will consider him toMorrow.

Diamond: I find her voting a bit odd and there's something not quite right about her, but I could be very wrong. I don't have enough to vote her.

Lastly, is Gil-Galad. I don't like how quickly he jumped onto Mac after he said he suspected Rune. And if Mac's a wolf, it could be a wolf-on-wolf vote. He was loud last time as a wolf, so he may be taking a different strategy. And a quiet wolf is a dangerous one.

++Gil-Galad

Ack, I'm gonna be late! Sorry I have to go so soon...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Sorry it took a while longer, I got caught up playing with my baby-brother in the garden and then there was supper.

anyways it is correct that I know of no ordos, I only spied on Lommy who was my "twin role" which ment that if she protectet or spied on me we would be able to PM. . .

the other person who has a special role is Brinniel, what it is I do not know, but lets hope she is a cobbler or wolf.

[The Saucepan Man]

Apologies for my late return, but a certain important football match went into extra time. ‘Twas the correct result though.

Well, it has been a rather revelatory afternoon. And a rather unnerving one for me, if the claims are true, since they render both of my prime suspects innocent.

I am rather dubious of these claims, since a Seer with an additional life combined with two Rangers (albeit with auxiliary roles) seems rather excessive, in game balance terms. However, I would guess that at least one is true. But, it’s rather late in the Day now and I don’t think that we can take the risk that one is not telling the truth. As Volo notes, we will most likely find out toNight whether Rune’s claim is true.

Which means that I have to find an alternative candidate, and quick. Aganzir and Brinniel were the only other two that I found vaguely suspicious, although I would be prepared to put in a vote for Gil or Xzyzzy, on the basis that we are not getting much from them, one way or the other.

One thing, though, before I make up my mind,

Originally Posted by Volo

I got a phrase about Legate the next Night. He is not a Wolf!

How clear is the phrase? Would you mind sharing it?

Edit: Crossed with Rune

[Aganzir]

Let's really hope there were no more gifted roles.

++Brinniel

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rune

the other person who has a special role is Brinniel, what it is I do not know, but lets hope she is a cobbler or wolf.

Hmm, this makes things difficult as I do not entirely trust Rune's claim. And can we be sure that there are only three Gifteds?

I am reasonably satisfied on the latter, and I am inclined to take a risk on the former, especially as I have found Brin, and particularly her voting, suspicious.

[Anguirel]

I don't know what to think about Volo's story. On the one hand it's getting convoluted and ridiculous, and surely no mod could indulge in such flummery! On the other hand the last time I decided that, in Diamond's WereDuck game, it cost me very dear.

Volo, could you reveal the riddles (if you're allowed to)? Surely a few heads will be better than one on that point.

OK. So, I trust Rune and Volo, because of the very ludicrousness of their alibis. You couldn't make them up.

As a result of their various tidbits of information, I suspect Sauce more than I did before (if Legate really is innocent) and also Kath whose double-lynching scheme now looks evil rather than praiseworthy. But more than either...

++DIAMOND. We all seemed agreed there was a wolf in the Boro bandwagon, and if Saruman and Rune are out it has to her. And I suspect her anyway. And she hasn't been bantering about wigs enough. What do we pay her for?

[Volo]

Legate:

answered Radagast. "And he told me to say that if you feel the need, he will help; but you must seek his aid at once, or it will be too late."

Aganzir:

“There was a little corner of his mind that was still his own, and light came through it.”

I'm 99,99% sure that both are innocent.

--Rune Son of Bjarne

++Brinniel

And Legate SMSd me that he'll vote for *surprisesurprise* Macal-
++Brinniel

Xd with everything since Aganzir.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Hmm, this makes things difficult as I do not entirely trust Rune's claim. And can we be sure that there are only three Gifteds?

I am reasonably satisfied on the latter, and I am inclined to take a risk on the former, especially as I have found Brin, and particularly her voting, suspicious.

The very reason I did not reveal Brinniels name at first is that I have no idea what kind of roles has been thrown into this game.

anyways who are we voting for ?

I have no freaking idea about what would be wisest.

[Macalaure]

Seems like the gifteds are taking over now.

I guess the only way to find out whether Rune is what he claims he is, is to lynch Brinniel. But I will wait with my vote until Brinniel had a chance to speak.

[Aganzir]

I doubt she'll be back in time.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I have to leave for work in five minutes, so I cannot wait for Rune to reveal the special role.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

well, lynching me would also answer the question. . . .but I am not sure I would like that.