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#241 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
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The "whole thing" is infinitely complicated by the fact that Hollywood was bought out by the tobacco industry years and years ago. Tobacco companies paid nicely for "product placement" as a way to promote the social acceptability and attractiveness of smoking and therebye increase cigarette sales. Even Ronald Reagan (while still just an actor) was hired to promote smoking. So what is wrong with reversing decades of propaganda through hidden merchandising? And there's no logical reason why one aspect, if it is proven harmful, should not be controlled or eliminated just because there are other equally harmful aspects that are yet to be controlled or recognised as harmful. It's called one step at a time. Tolkien was hooked on nicotine. Bottom line, he was an addict. His substance was legal, but he was still an addict.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#242 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
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No he wasn't. He was a smoker. There's no evidence to believe that he couldn't have stopped at any time he wanted. Of course as he was perfectly happy with his pipe I can't see that there was any problem. He managed to give up his car when he saw the damage the infernal combustion engine was doing to the environment & in my experience as a non driver, that is the real addiction. Fumes far, far more dangerous than any amount of second hand smoke, far more destructive to to humans & the environment, but can drivers give up their addiction to the car? Smoking is an innocent pleasure in comparison to the evils of the car, & the motor industry has Hollywood equally in its pocket - if not more so (& heaven knows how much profit Smith & Wesson made out of the Dirty Harry movies).
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#243 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
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And Tolkien gave up driving a car when he realised what a hazard he was as a driver. He didn't stop using automobiles and would hire drivers to take him and his family on excursions, medical visits, etc. Frankly, I think that when/if The Hobbit is ever shown on the big screen, it ought to come with trailers and adverts about lung diseases. Maybe even Gandalf coughing up and gasping for breath and reminding people that ships sailing west for healing were only available to Frodo and Gimli. Pictures of smokers' lungs would be pretty appetising beside those hobbit second breakfasts, too.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#244 | |||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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Or we could just leave folk to their indulgences & let them take their chances. Personally, I accepted that one day something is going to finish me off, whatever I do, or don't do. I don't lecture others as to what they should or shouldn't do - I' like to think I'm quite 'Hobbitish' in that way. If it shouldn't be shown on films without anti smoking adverts being shown I can't see that it should be permitted in the books with similar warnings (though I expect to find such warnings will appear fairly soon, to be followed, no doubt, by the smoking references being edited out, along with the mentions of over-eating, the consumption of beer & all mention of pubs, the pipeweed to be replaced by healthy snacks of carrot sticks & celery, & the pubs by gyms.) Hobbits smoke too much, drink too much & eat too much & they don't jog or preach. |
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#245 | ||
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I think that smoking for most long-term users is no longer a habit or a 'pleasurable indulgence' (that would include myself and my pack-a-day jones). I cannot merely smoke a single cigarette in a day without significant discomfort; whereas, I can drink several porters in a single sitting and go for weeks without another (which would be disconcerting and unnecessary perhaps, but quite doable). However, that being said I do not believe that removing pipe-smoking from The Hobbit or adding warnings is warranted as the story takes place in another age altogether. I despise attempts to homogenize literature or film due to the expedience of political correctness, particularly in the film industry which seems to be picking and choosing its ethics, which in itself is unethical.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 07-29-2007 at 04:43 PM. |
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#246 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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There are great benefits to the internal combustion engine. Society as we know it would stop in its tracks without it. The lives of hundreds of millions of people would radically change as we know it.
You cannot say the same for smoking. No way - no how. |
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#247 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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#248 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
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I know. It's an absolute sin the way people take things in directions never meant. But if you want to talk about sin, I suppose you could explain if you mean smoking is not a venal sin or not a mortal sin. Myself, I've been talking about physiological addiction, so on that ground smoking would not be a sin, as it is no longer a voluntary act.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 07-29-2007 at 09:03 PM. Reason: word |
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#249 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#250 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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I'm not advocating smoking at all. Its none of my business whether or not people indulge. Yes, its an indulgence that may well kill you before something else does - but that's all one can say for it - 'cos something is going to kill you. |
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#251 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
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In modern times, things are only labelled as 'sins' as it makes it that much easier for Governments to make lots of tax out of them. That's why sex is no longer a sin but eating lovely greasy chips out of newspaper or smoking a ciggie is. You cannot tax the former but you can tax the latter. And what's more you can get all self-righteous about it too.
![]() There is no tax in Middle-earth so smoking, drinking ale or eating lard is no sin. The day they put health warnings on films at the cinema will be the day I start looking round for the poster of Big Brother that I've got to salute. I note that it was the evil venture capitalist/despot that was Saruman who also carted off all the pipeweed in The Shire. ![]()
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#252 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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from Bethberry
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Not only was it a bit jarring to the eye but the role was poorly written and not one of the better aspects of the play. I saw the same actor a few weeks ago in TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD and he was very good as Tom Robinson. |
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#253 | |||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,992
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 07-30-2007 at 08:53 AM. |
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#254 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Walking off to look for America
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Ian Holm was a good Bilbo, but he played Bilbo at 111 so I don't know...the public would be looking for someone like him...and I would NOT watch the Hobbit without Serkis and McKellen. ...well maybe without Mckellen. and will Sting look the same?
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#255 | ||
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: England, UK
Posts: 178
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'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.' |
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#256 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
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Ummmmmmm didn't the harfoots have some kind of brown skin? I can't remember to save my life what word Tolkien used to describe them but I'm sure that's what he said. Maybe not black but I'm sure not all the hobbits in the Shire would have been white.
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#257 | |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 274
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I'm hazarding a guess though that contrast in skin tones between Harfoots and the fairer Fallohides is not that marked - more of a Northern/Southern European contrast. IIRC no Hobbit is described as "swarthy" which seems to be Tolkien's word of choice to describe persons who are markedly darker than, say, the average person of Bree or Gondor.
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He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. "She was not conquered," he said Last edited by Morwen; 08-06-2007 at 08:31 AM. |
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#258 | ||
Mighty Quill
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#259 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Walking off to look for America
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The three kinds of hobbits are:
The Harfoots, The Fallowhides, and The Stoors. ![]()
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#260 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Doesn't Tolkien mention the hobbits coming fron the east, relatively a short time compared to the Edain etc...... just a thought.
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#261 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Yes he does.
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#262 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
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They went over the Misty Mountains.
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#263 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
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Well then, since they are a sub-species of man and they come from the east they might share the same ethnicity as men that way.
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#264 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Well Tolkien did describe them the way he wanted to, and it did not say that they were say...from the middle east or Africa or the Americas. and since the he was writing about middle earth which was essentially England, I wouldn't think that they would have people of other races in that particular time period, now the Easterlings would probably be a bit darker of skin as the people of Rohan, right? So the same thing would apply to hobbits. Thats just my opinion.
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#265 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
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No no, Middle Earth is meant to be the whole of Eurasia and Africa. Only the north-west of Middle Earth is meant to be Europe and the Shire Britian. (I like to think of the north Farthing being Scotland
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#266 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Oh so does that mean that the Men from Numenor were uh like Africans?
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#267 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Oh wait Numenor was uh drowned and it was kinda a magical country so to speak.
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#268 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
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No
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#269 |
Mighty Quill
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I see, I just thought... oh nevermind. I'll go back to smoking my invisible pipe and singing Bilbos bath Song.
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#270 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
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Sorry this is the thread about the hobit movie ? ;)
Mandrake in the Telegraph yesterday claims that PJ has made it up with New Line and will make the Hobbit with Sir Iam McLuvvie reprising his role as Gandalf. I find it rather depressing. I had got rather excited about seeing a different vision of ME. If it is to be PJ again I almost feel I know whatit will be like already
![]() Tolkien is big enough not to be reliant on one director's interpretation...
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#271 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
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There won't be anything new at all - but that's what audiences want from sequels - exactly the same story with the same actors, but with bigger sets & louder explosions. Personally, I find the idea of a Hobbit movie holds no appeal at all. Now, if we were talking about a Guillermo del Toro 'Smith', or a Terry Gilliam 'Giles'..... |
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#272 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
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#273 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I'd also like to see Ang Lee get his hands on CoH (after I've persuaded him to film Njal's Saga.....) |
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#274 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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For better or worse (depending on your leanings!), Shaye and New Line are again negotiating with PJ (as Mithalwen confirmed a few posts before), despite the fact that Shaye vowed earlier not to have anything to do with him. Here's one of the many stories out there in recent days: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1000...t/news/1662251.
But while some of these suggest Peter Jackson will direct, others claim he will confine himself to producing with Sam Raimi tagged as director. I assume that New Line is under a lot of pressure because of their recent financial problems and the fact that the clock is ticking down.....
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 08-14-2007 at 01:48 AM. |
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#275 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
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These various stories seem to point in the same direction - Shaye and PJ's reps are talking. Beyond that nothing. As a big supporter of Jackson and the LTOR films, I dearly want to see him both produce and direct THE HOBBIT. This is the best news we have had in months.
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#276 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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from davem
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For my money, the best thing that Lee ever did was EAT, DRINK, MAN, WOMAN. I just cannot accept so much of TIGER/DRAGON with its defying of the most basic physics. Yeah, I know its a genre thing - but so much of it just looked stupid. The landscapes were beautiful and it sure made for great stills - but the flying stuff just is not my cup of tea. BAREBACK MOUNTING is one of the greatly overrated films of the last few years. Were it not for its so called "cutting edge" subject matter, it would have made a very tiny splash. It faded like a dying meteor in the months between release and the Oscars and has been almost unheard of since that time. But like lots of films set in the American West, it sure looked glorious. davem - what is it about Lee that spurs you to make this statement? What do you especially like in his films? |
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#277 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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#278 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Well, just to be polite - 'cos I haven't too much time at the moment.
Firstly, you have to avoid at all costs an 'action movie' director like PJ. Lee would give us a grown up move that treated the story seriously & he can handle action scenes without descending into thud & blunder histrionics or losing control of the CGI. The rest is a matter of taste - I'd just like to see his version. |
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#279 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
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Ang Lee also did a very good job on Sense and Sensibility. I am not a film expertor even a great filmbuff, but I doubt many directors could provide both the impressive action that hollywood demands and have the delicate touch the story needs from what I have seen of his work he could. The unfulfilled love of the characters of Chow Yun Fat and Michelle Yeoh moved me deeply- I can imagine he would handle the problems of the Turin- Nienor relationship sensitively.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
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#280 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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davem ... while you and I are at complete opposites regarding the worth and quality of the Jackson films, I do think you may have something regarding the Ang Lee idea. COH just could be the thing for Lee. His two big strengths seem to be the capturing of beautiful visuals and Middle-earth certainly has that - and the deft hadling of characters that are less than optimistic or the usual hero types. Lee could be just the director for COH.
I do think that if you expect a ratcheting down of action scenes you badly do not understand the commercial aspect of modern film. Filming something like COH would be a minimum $100 million (US dollars) venture. A studio putting out that kind of money would want a proven money making model to follow - and as much as you would not like it - the Jackson LOTR films would be front and center in their mind. I feel that there was a more than proper balance in the Jackson films and Hollywood looks at the box office receipts and most likely agrees. COH would have plenty of action. But perhaps Lee could present it differently and balance it with the more personal struggle of Turin. I do think you are onto something with this idea. |
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