Friends of Nimrodel: Tapestry of Dreams - Discussion

[littlemanpoet]

... it just doensn't have the rich vocabulary we're all used to with modern English.

Blackmail? huh, that's not bad itself, actually, although I think "mail" is a French Norman word. (1066 and all that).

Black guard? again, norman french.

Turn-coat, maybe? No, that's traitoring.

Take basic English and compound, maybe. Um, it's a demand.... um..... order? he bade him... um..... to bid ......

Anglo Saxon "spanan" = urge, persuade, entice, but that doesn't help us at all. Arg! If only my Bright's glossary went both ways! oh heck, Norman English is good enough. Tolkien used lots of it. - - guard. tobacco was borrowing form Spanish, I think. So do your best.

insist? oh, I give up.

[littlemanpoet]

Tolkien exercised one very critical element of language that most of his followers tend to overlook...... contraction. Many words in Sindarin and Quenya, I recollect, are built from compounds of smaller words. The new word almost never contains every last letter and syllable of the two words used. If I had any smarts at all, or time, I'd do some research to back this up, but well......

Anyway, Nethgwador is a case in point. Some aspect of the word would disappear, that which the tongue passes most lightly over in the language. You can see this all over the English language.

Kneel. ... knife..... thought..... through...... notice the silent letters? They weren't always silent. the latter two were spoken with a guttural in the throat, like a dog growling, I suppose. Hard to do. No wonder we don't anymore.

Back to Nethgwador. Say it fast. Notice what starts to disappear when you say it fast enough? The Elves, I'm thinking, intuitively know what letters are going to drop out of a compound word, and would name accordingly, especially taking into account the daily wear and tear.

So I'll make a suggestion or two on this account, base on my own attempts to say this name really fast: Nekwador. Nethador. Nethwador. The latter may be the best one. You decide.

[alaklondewen]

I edited and added an extra scene onto post #161.

[littlemanpoet]

Well, I get to point out my own mistake. Tolkien never, ever used the word, "tobacco", anywhere that I can think of in any of his writings. He talked about it aplenty, but always referred to it as "pipeweed".

Which makes my main point way better than I could. Two simple English words are combined in a whimsical, picturesque manner, such that the cured vegetable matter, imported from Spain, Virginia, or wherever, that Englishmen stuff in their pipe bowls, becomes a completely Hobbitish thing - from the South farthing no less, called pipe weed.

Does that do us any good regarding such words as "demand"? Heck, I'm still wracking my brain on that one. Anyway, I enjoy the challenge of trying to find ways of expressing things the way I imagine Tolkien would have. Okay, I'll be quiet with the linguistics stuff and try to get Ædegard and Raefindan in gear again.

[Imladris]

Lmp, even though I enjoyed your post immensely (go Raefindan!) you said that the merchant was an "overfed man" when in fact he is rather quite skinny...

Cheers!
Imladris

[littlemanpoet]

Oops. I fix. Sorry much!

[alaklondewen]

My last final is this morning and I will be back in the swing of things. I'm
*really* looking forward to writing with the group as a whole.

[mark12_30]

You go, girl, and God bless your finals! See you soon.

[Imladris]

I will do my best to have a post for Aeron and the merchant and perhaps Gwyllion today if possible....schedule was too busy yesterday...

[littlemanpoet]

Just a small point, alak: Ædegard is (I think) 20 years old. He doesn't mean to appear to be an older man. If you want your elf to see him that way, okay. That's all.

[alaklondewen]

lmp, I'm afraid it is I that pictures Ædegard as an older man, and Celegtâl would certainly know the difference. Thanks for pointing it out, and I did edit.

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Whoosh...

I got up a post that continued the 'confrontation' between Celegtâl and the Rohan group...

Happy spring-almost-summer, everyone! These months are flying by...only 28 more days of school!

-Aylwen

P.S. Happy Mother's Day, as well!

Edit: I was wondering if you'd notice that I'd left Liornung's name out, Nuru. I had no name to mix his up with ...though maybe Bella would have a different excuse later on.

[mark12_30]

Aylwen, Nuru, Alak... very funny! I love it.

Looks like lmp is next.

Anorien: Where do we want this to go? Are we looking for a peaceful resolution, or is the merchant going to do something stupid and get him and his henchman injured or killed?

[Imladris]

I'm thinking peaceful, as I think I hinted at in my last post...he's not really all that bad...just a bit difficult with a large splash of revenge...

[mark12_30]

Hokey-Dokey. No bloodshed today.

Orual:

Ravion tensed his arm suddenly as though to strike, and the merchant let go of Aeron's arm reflexively.

Brilliant. And so subtle, I missed it the first time through and found myself wondering how Aeron got to the fire! (...Game-owner... ..... in.... spaaaaaaace..... ) *cue muppet music*



Okay, then, time for a brief "Mellonin pondered" post.

[littlemanpoet]

Uh oh, Orual. Looks like we posted right on top of each other. I only read the first couple lines, but it looks like we may be getting in the way of each other. How do you want to handle it?

[Orual]

We cross-posted, but it wasn't really to cross-purposes...so I just edited and let what I had written flow more naturally from what you had set up. Check it out and see if there's anything I need to change, but I think that there ought to be no problem.

[mark12_30]

...I think it's good... and I think Raefindan very nicely gave Mellonin-- er, Fingon-- the argument that he needed!

Onward! Uh, I guess that means me next! Wheee!

[littlemanpoet]

Orual, that was a work of genius! Way to go!

[alaklondewen]

lmp, there is a small problem with your Lorien post. Caranduin and Celegtâl know nothing of Amroth and Mellon, but they will take you to Erebemlin anyway. I probably should have been clearer beforehand, but would you mind editing that dialogue? Thanks.

Edit: Also, Celegtâl is standing before you, while Caranduin is in the tree.

[mark12_30]

Okay! Fingon hath spoken-- and Mellonin is a sqeaky-voiced bundle of frayed nerves!!

[Imladris]

Good old Aeron showing some sort of nobility at the end. Nice touch...

[littlemanpoet]

Oops, and thanks, Alak. Will fix.

[mark12_30]

Okay, team, I'm Stumped. Suggestions?? Brainstorms??

[Imladris]

I edited post 200 for more chaacter developement....

As for brainstorms, whatever happened to the dragon idea? Maybe we'll still have merchants to deal with as well...*evil Calvin grin*

[mark12_30]

The horse.... Every man has a weakness.

Mellonin just got ticked....

[Imladris]

I'm impressed that you guessed the merchant's weakness before I even knew it...which is really odd since I basically wrote the weakness in there...I am too subtle for my own good.

I was kind of thinking: wouldn't it be good if some sort of tragedy hit the company? i don't know what kind of tragedy. Illness maybe...I'm not too sure.

[mark12_30]

Hee hee! DOn't let the merchant get away without his confounded necklace. We wouldnt' want him back THAT soon.

Illness: not just yet.? Let's get them mostly across the mouths of the Entwash. But everyone can be tired and run-down, and then the illness can hit suddenly.

Whatta buncha sickos.

[mark12_30]

Pouncing belatedly on something I should have pointed out earlier:

Honesty is a huge thing in Middle-Earth. (I had a bunch of quotes ready, but heck, you all know what I mean.) Aeron doesn't get it; but everyone else (with thepossible exception of Raefindan, and that's up to lmp) should either be scrupulously honest, or, feel horrendously guilty about their failure to do so.

The Anorien group -- Mellonin and Ravion (at least) -- now falls into the latter category.

The elves on the border of Lorien-- alak, I think we need to readdress their statement "you are watched by many." What else can we have there? Can they just stand there and look dangerous? Or can we have a few other archers hidden in the eaves of the forest? They can't just lie... they'd stop being elves and suddenly morph into orcs

[alaklondewen]

Helen, I completely understand. I had contemplated using the line for a while before I wrote it, and then decided I would try it out. I edited post #201 and reworded some things in that scene.

[mark12_30]

I knew you would! I'll go check it out... "brb"


...Yes, I like it much better this way! Thanks so much for editing.

Now Amroth must thank Erebemlin...

[alaklondewen]

Helen, we need to discuss an issue with the elves...the role of Taitheneb. I like Taitheneb as a character, and I know you are growing attached to him as well. Erebemlin has this deep love for his king that has last thousands of years, and I just can't see him giving up care for his returned king to another. I feel like somewhere in the last scene (I'm not sure when and where it happened) Erebemlin is coming off as weak and afraid. He is neither. No, I don't think he would be comfortable opening his complete thought to Amroth, but I don't think he would fear helping his king, or be 'glad' Taitheneb is going to watch over his dreams. Would you mind editing this? I would look over my posts as well to see if this 'feeling' of Erebemlin is being carried through them as well. Thanks so much.

[mark12_30]

Alak, I can just rip it out and start over. Or better yet, you can put in what you want. Let's just do that. I was running on empty there, and I don't like what I wrote.

[mark12_30]

OK. I now realise that I had basically hijacked Taitheneb; Mea Culpa (my sin.) I hereby relinquish him! Alak, he's all yours again, and anything you want edited in my previous posts, please point out and I will cheerfully do so!

How about I just provide this guideline about Amroth: Amroth is in his usual hurry to move forward; he's going to be racking his brain as to what the chalk and decay and dust might mean from his most recent dream (his other dreams have all been watery or just plain dark), and come to the incorrect guess that she is somewhere over in dusty Dagorlad or Gorgoroth (if he guessed the paths of the dead, they wouldn't ride down the Anduin. And he knows she likes water, so he'll hope that she did go down the Anduin.)

What will eventually correct his misconception will be discussions with Raefindan when they meet up. Raefindan "remembers" that Mithrellas never was interested in Mordor at all, but instead was interested in the White Mountains.

Once they get to the Belfalas area they can hear rumors about a wild elf living in the mountains, or something.

So:

--Amroth is in his usual hurry to get on with the search and his next idea is the the Dagorlad and after that the ash plains of Gorgoroth
--He's immediately ready to jump back on Echo and ride off. without grasping the illness and weariness of the body he is wearing
--WildMellon/ Nethwador won't be far behind him (although he may be looking over his shoulder hopong for a glimpse of Lady Bella.)

So: Rohan team: You're on. Keeping the above three points in mind, go wild.

Rohan Riders are approaching the flet, correct? What's next?

[alaklondewen]

Helen, thank you so much for understanding. I have written a new scene for the flet and carried time ahead a few hours, so the Rohan group can arrive.

[mark12_30]

Love it.

Alak, thank Eru that you said something.

[mark12_30]

*watching the door ladder with baited breath*

(Must be Nethwador talking, Amroth's asleep.)

Orual, does Erundil have any plans, or do you have plans for him?

Meanwhile, what's up in Anorien? Shall Ravion's Anorien team press hard to arrive (and get through) the Entwash?

I'm guessing that Ravion pushes the group pretty hard, and shoots for 25 miles/day.

Ravion's group left Minas Tirith the evening of the 16th; it's now late on the 18th. So let's call it 2.5 days of travel at 25 miles / day. (At that rate the rookies should all be footsore and griping!! ) that puts us (by my guesstimate) basically a day away from the Entwash (make the Entwash late at night Dec 19th) I'm guessing that Ravion would know a path that waves a bit but would get the group through the Delta fairly quickly. It's too cold to swim, so they'll be looking for shallow fords and I would imagine weaving a bit. Maybe the Entwash delta would take them three days to navigate? So 20, 21, evening of the 22 they clear the Entwash.

From there it's a day to Sarn Gebir. I should think we'd go west of Rauros (not taking the stair) unless Gond can climb a huge stair like that? A small one, yes, but that's a big long stair...


comments?

[Orual]

I was about to ask about Erundil, actually. Should he be leaving soon? I think he's coming dangerously close to figuring out who the real blacksmith is. I think he should bow out now and get on his way to the Gondor group.

Thoughts on that?

As for Ravion and the Gondor crew, I think that we ought to get going. They're going to want to put a little distance between themselves and the merchant, just in case...plus Ravion's always griping about wasting time, so he'll want to get moving, even for its own sake.

[mark12_30]

He seemed ancy when the elves said their bit; I havlf expected him to say something polite to the elves and return to his own marches.Does that sound right to you, or do you think he'd really leave from the base of the tree...? Seems too late to me then, as if he'd be in it for good whether or no.

We could insert a gracious exit at any time from meeting the two elves onward, , and it shouldn't take many edits to snip him out of the ensuing posts.

Anything you like!

[alaklondewen]

If I may speak for the elves , I would suggest writing his exit taking place earlier than the current scene, because Caranduin, or any of the other elves, will not allow him to be 'loose' in the forest. It might even be *really* dangerous for him, because another elf we haven't discussed could see him...