TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

To clarify, as there are so far no wolves on the DT, the information so far was not picked by wolves but merely by yours truly and BG. However, it will be picked by wolves when/if a wolf dies, in the sense that they will be given a choice of 2-3 infodrops of which they select the one to be posted on the DT to be known to the Inno-Dead.

Ah

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Can I be honest I don’t care if we win or lose. This ghost thing is fun. Form is just top notch on the quotes

Seconded. I just hope we do manage to get a wolf and live to see another day for another ghost.

[Boromir88]

"We must guess the riddles if we are to choose our course rightly"

---

So, I take this to mean we have to start asking Ghost!Form questions to get the messages he has, and that meaning they can't just reveal it.

Alright, is there a formal way about this...or can we just kind of wing it?

Ghost!Form have our fallen kin learned of the name of a betrayer among our ranks?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Many Meetings

He then pointed out and named

Originally Posted by The Riders of Rohan

and five you have measured ere the

Originally Posted by The Ainulindalë

before aught else was made

Originally Posted by The Rider of Rohan

day is ended! Hardy is the race of Elendil!

Ghost

[Morsul the Dark]

So the wolves or at least one or two of them were in the bandwagon. That narrows it down.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by The Ring Goes South

'No,' said Gandalf. 'But you see further ahead in the clear light.

Ghost

[Galadriel55]

A gentle reminder that Ghost quotes must be full sentences. Do not delete what you have up, Form, but in future please put your communication in full sentence quotes.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

So the wolves or at least one or two of them were in the bandwagon. That narrows it down.

Well Lottie was night killed so it narrows it down a little more.

Myself
Lommy
Legate
Pitch

I've already spent yesterday focusing on Legate. And of course you are under no obligation to listen to me, but if you'd like, perhaps you can dig into Legate's posts, perhaps see something I haven't. Dig into my posts if you want or whoever else suits you.

I've been too trusting towards Pitch and Lommy the first 2 days and need to look into them. In the next couple hours I think I'll have to bid everyone namárië until the morning.

[Boromir88]

Ahh crossed with the Ghost's response. Apparently that's a no. Ok scrap that but Morsul's question is on the right trail.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Of the Beginning of Days

Therefore at the sixth hour of the First Day,

Originally Posted by Not At Home

In the Lake-town we have always elected

Originally Posted by The Riders of Rohan

and five you have measured ere the

Originally Posted by Three is Company

one of the Big People

Originally Posted by Many Meetings

there are wargs and were-wolves

Ghost

[Morsul the Dark]

No?
Boro Lommy Legate Pitch Lottie all voted Huey

That

Leaves Me, Kath, Sally, Sorimon

I’m a nobody. No way it’s that easy.

Form I don’t know if you can answer this. Can you confirm this interpretation is correct?

[Morsul the Dark]

Boro if this interpretation is correct then you are innocent. I’m in the group of suspects. I’m innocent but can’t prove it. Who would you vote for out of us four?

We should wait for confirmation but I think we might’ve just nailed this down.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Boro if this interpretation is correct then you are innocent. I’m in the group of suspects. I’m innocent but can’t prove it. Who would you vote for out of us four?

We should wait for confirmation but I think we might’ve just nailed this down.

Both quotes from Form!Ghost were talking about "before aught else was made" and "the First Day" So this is information about Day 1. "Those we have measured"...those who received votes on Day 1? So at least 1 wolf received a vote on Day 1.

Actually 6 people received a vote on Day 1.

Morsul
Pitch
Huey
Greenie
Sally
Lottie

But Greenie was the Day 1 lynch, so of the 5 others. At least 1 is a wolf. Huey, Lottie are now killed after Day 1. Leaving at least 1 wolf among

Morsul
Sally
Pitch

[Morsul the Dark]

That’s probably a better interpretation. Mine would’ve been too easy.

So we’re thinking Sally or Pitch yes me too but I’m innocent. I really think this information taken with the strong possibility Form was killed as a seer...

I’ll take the plunge.

++Sally

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by A Conspiracy Unmasked

'I think,' answered Frodo slowly, 'that it was a good guess, as far as it goes.

Ghost

[Morsul the Dark]

See FormerForm got my back ghost fist bump

[Boromir88]

I feel like this like a game of 20 questions, Werewolf edition (Ooh. New game thread idea).

Ghost!Form, this will have to be a generic one, before I waste time trying to think of another question. Do you have another message from the "Vision of Iluvatar" to tell us?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I feel like this like a game of 20 questions, Werewolf edition (Ooh. New game thread idea).

Or maybe a Ouija board?

Anyways, enjoy communing with the Dead!

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ouija!

Heh

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

That’s probably a better interpretation. Mine would’ve been too easy.

So we’re thinking Sally or Pitch yes me too but I’m innocent. I really think this information taken with the strong possibility Form was killed as a seer...

I’ll take the plunge.

You know I was thinking this was quite a quick trigger and plunge, but spending a bit more thought about it, until there's anything else to learn from the ghost...

No matter what your role you wouldn't be voting for yourself, so if you are innocent, from your perspective at worst it's a 50/50 shot. And Form's death night 1 could certainly implicate sally as the wolf more than Pitch.

From my perspective, I can't take that plunge yet because worst case it's a 33% chance. I suppose it's possible 2 (or even 3! ) in this group is a wolf, but that might be way too hopeful because:

Originally Posted by A Conspiracy Unmasked

'I think,' answered Frodo slowly, 'that it was a good guess, as far as it goes.

So I have to proceed thinking there's only 1, and thus a 33% chance. What I do like about your quick vote is I'm very interested to see what sally and Pitch do in reacting to this information from the ghost.

Currently my best guess to the wolf among the three would go...

sally - because of Form being killed Night 1
Pitch - because he cautioned me yesterday about who I was trusting, but he himself has seemed to be pretty trusting towards me
Morsul - The quick vote for sally first struck me as suspicious, but also realizing to him it's a 50/50 shot, and quickly made up his mind sally's the wolf because Form being night killed.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that was unexpected. I see my radar for gifteds is equal to my radar for wolves, unfortunately. Sorry, Lottie. I owe you one.

As for these accusations against me, I hope you don't think me foolish enough to kill someone suspecting me on the first night of a game. That's rather offensive, to be honest. I welcome accusations, though of course when I'm innocent, as I am now, votes not so much.

I think Morsul is more misguided than evil, though innocents can do just as much damage if acting on the wrong information, as he is now.

I'm currently very tired, though I will be around all of the rest of the day, so I'll see everyone again in the morning. Hopefully we can put this behind us and not lynch an innocent (read, me).

More thoughts on the thread later. For now, sleep.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

As for these accusations against me, I hope you don't think me foolish enough to kill someone suspecting me on the first night of a game. That's rather offensive, to be honest. I welcome accusations, though of course when I'm innocent, as I am now, votes not so much.
.

I mean, what else would you say? As was pointed out with the dead being able to talk to us it’s important to take out the seeer as soon as possible for the wolves. Even if it means losing one of their own. In fact G55’s clarification that I missed probably wasn’t by the wolves since they’d know their roles more nicely. And that’s losing you to the DT isn’t actually a loss you gain power over what information they get and the ghost can give.

So killing seerForm would limit his dreams and even if you get killed for it you get control of the DT.

In a normal game your argument would hold more water. In a game with a ghost the strategy for the wolves needs and rewards aggression.

I stand by my vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

To be honest after yesterDay, the Ghost appearing is a welcome relief. And yeah I have to second what others said, Form, you are nailing it. I figure that right now the Ghost may be probably asleep, which is a pity, because I'd have liked to ask a few things for clarification. I hope that before the Day is done the rest of us will also have the chance to interact more directly with the Ghost.

Since I started about this, one thing is that both Morsul and Boro have interpreted the last thing Form said as response to themselves, but which is it? And if the interpretation is what Boro said, is it that there is only 1 Wolf, or it is that there is at least one but there may be more? (I presume that - and this goes generally also for the future, if there is something important we misinterpret - the Ghost can say something that will address these when he appears.)

And one more remark while I am at the subject. I think the Ghost's first words were not just a greeting, but mainly a "take it slow" remark, especially in the response to Morsul's first-posts' action plans which, by the way, I don't endorse at all. And now he even sabotaged them himself by voting within like three seconds. That is nothing to say about voting sally, which may be a good idea, but now Morsul effectively forces everybody's hand, and that's just absolutely irresponsible (in the better case) before majority of the village had the chance to even discuss this. Does not help that first gets lynched and per Boro's and Morsul's interpretation of the Ghost's words, Morsul could be on the shortlist of Wolves.

Anyway, I also second Boro's request that if you, Gorlim (Forlim?) have any other information from "the council of Ilúvatar", you should tell us first before it gets buried under our own speculations. If the Dead have some speculation, then of course it is just a speculation, but if there is for example something relevant you have concluded, anything that might shed light on anything is helpful.

Otherwise however, I think we should not just tunnel-vision on the Ghost toDay, however nice it is. We better catch a Wolf toDay and also in the future Days, and the Ranger dying is actually a big setback in these numbers.

Which brings me to one question we should look at - so why did Lottie get targeted? I still assume the Wolves primarily go for the Seer (and I don't assume they thought her the Ranger and killed her for that, unless she somewhere advertised it blatantly and they saw it - but I don't see why a Ranger should advertise...). The puzzling part about it is that she voted for two innocents on the previous Days, so the Wolves would have no reason to kill her based on those. I will look into it.

EDIT: x-ed with Morsul. Whoa, somebody is around!

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

effectively forces everybody's hand,

Yeah, basically. It forces the wolves to hide and bus one of their own or vote in tandem trying to save them revealing themselves. Or to try to hide more effectively they have to avoid bandwagonning. Either way their power is broken. I had originally put my vote in my first post, at that point it was a much more desperate shot in the dark. FormerForm’s information bears out my suspicion and I can more confidently make the vote.

Edit: I’m around now but I work today noon to 8(DL is 7pm for me) so I’ll have much less interaction throughout the day.

[Boromir88]

Now that's not at all a reaction I would expect from an innocent sally. You seem almost resigned to the fact you're going to be lynched today. And if you are innocent than I don't think you would be trying to guilt trip and make us feel uneasy that you now act resigned to your fate.

Originally Posted by sally

As for these accusations against me, I hope you don't think me foolish enough to kill someone suspecting me on the first night of a game. That's rather offensive, to be honest. I welcome accusations, though of course when I'm innocent, as I am now, votes not so much.

I never like this defense "Do you think I'd be that foolish/dumb to Night kill someone suspecting/voting for me. That's offensive." It is very much a guilt trip, to try to make us feel bad that a wolf "couldn't be that foolish/obvious." Why is it foolish for wolves to target someone if they suspect they are the seer?

Hindsight reveals he wasn't, but that doesn't change the fact he was the wolves first kill and they don't know who the Seer is. If he turned out to be the seer, I guarantee you (if you are a wolf) wouldn't be trying to make us feel like we're being offensive. We've all done it (well, excluding Soriman, hopefully we haven't scared you away! We are very odd people and ghosts). We've all thought we picked up a sign from someone at some point about their role, like "Boro has to be the seer" and if the wolves thought that Night 1, I'm dead instead of Form.

What particularly doesn't make sense is...

Originally Posted by sally

I think Morsul is more misguided than evil, though innocents can do just as much damage if acting on the wrong information, as he is now.

So, knowing that out of 3 (Morsul, sally, Pitch) at least one is a wolf. When Morsul learns this, his reaction was a quick trigger response "I'm innocent, it's not me, so going with the 50/50 plunge for the person most suspicious out of the two. Which, doesn't say anything about his role, but it is an understandable reaction to have.

Your reaction is quite different.

Originally Posted by sally

Hopefully we can put this behind us and not lynch an innocent (read, me).

Ok, understandable, like Morsul this wouldn't say anything about your role. But what I don't understand is you are inclined to think Morsul is a misguided innocent, but say nothing about Pitch? So, if at least 1 of 3 has to be a wolf, from your perspective it's not you, you don't think it's Morsul, which means an innocent sally would start suspecting Pitch? Yet you do not do this, your reaction is very much resigned to the fact you will be lynched. An innocent sally in our situation knowing we really need a wolf today, wouldn't just sacrifice herself like this.

So...are you a sacrificial wolf, because Pitch is also a wolf and you are hoping we move away from Pitch after your lynch?

[Thinlómien]

First off: feeling really bad about the Huin lynch, on multiple levels. I can't believe I noticed Form's death made him more likely innocent and ignored that I find that every time I ignore reason in favour of gut-feeling OR ignore gut-feeling in favour of reason I pick the wrong thing to follow. I would say, I'm sorry Huin, but since this worked in your favour last time (me ignoring your wolvish vibes because I had no actual proof you were a wolf, and you were), let's call it... even?

But banter aside, entering Day3 without having a wolf lynched is always a little demoralising, especially with having just lost our ranger. We're gonna need all the help we can get toDay.

And speaking of losing our ranger, that sucks, also because Lottie was one of the few people I was confident was innocent.

And still about the Huin lynch: like I said, I will be looking at Boro and Legate toDay. Especially the former is ringing all my alarms now that I know Huin was innocent. The way he orchestrated the Huin lynch (despite suspecting Legate more originally? Do we have a Boro-Legate duo?) then started calling everyone else wolves for voting with him rubs me as wrong as something can rub me. Also I have to confess I suck at reading Legate in ww, so I usually keep a bit of a distance to him and give him the benefit of doubt for the first few Days unless he does something super shady, because often one of us getting killed/lynched solves the dilemma for me. But since it's Day3 and we're in dire straits, I'm aware I have to start paying more attention to him.

Now onwards to toDay...

Not a fan of Morsul's plans, for reasons that I don't feel confident expressing in public.

Ghost Form! Yay! Already from the first post I can see this will be fun. Not sure I follow the dead's logic though. Call the beasts? Ie the wolves? Wolves, would you like to show yourselves?

I don't follow Morsul and Boro's logic in parsing the ghost quotes? Why do you think he's specifically talking about Huinwagon? Or about Morsul / Sally / Pitch ?

Also, G55, I'm confused, can we ask direct question of the ghost like Morsul did? I thought not?

Also Morsul!!!! Why are you voting so early!! When you just said yourself we have to think carefully toDay??? As far as I see, you haven't really spent much time toDay analysing anybody or wondering why Lottie was killed. You just want us all to follow your gut? Geez, I don't like this. Okay, possibly a wolf would not be so brazen but you're narrowing our options on a whim and I don't like that. Or maybe Sally looks like a convenient target others might get behind because she's hardly been here but she's been suspected? Red flags. (I still don't have much of an opinion on Sally, since she hasn't been around. But I see she has a posted toDay already. Good.)

I don't know. I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who's willing to dig a trench and go hard from the beginning of the Day - that's what someone who knows who are on their side and who aren't would do. As has been pointed out, toDay is likely crucial. Therefore the wolves need to direct the village to lynch one of their own. They can go hard. They probably decided last Night who they're gunning for toDay. The rest of us can't afford tunnel vision like that, we have to actually think.


edit: xed with Boro

[Thinlómien]

Can someone explain to me that since when is one of Morsul, Sally and Pitch a werewolf?

And since this seems to come from Form's posts, how would the dead know? Since we don't have a dead seer? I doubt G55 would straight up tell them who the wolves are.

Either I'm slow or there's something straight up shady going on with Boro and Morsul.

[Morsul the Dark]

My main defense against wolfdom is my early vote. A wolf can’t vote first if breaks their bandwagon power. But a vote for their own first, that scatters any plans they could have as per my last post.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Can someone explain to me that since when is one of Morsul, Sally and Pitch a werewolf?

And since this seems to come from Form's posts, how would the dead know? Since we don't have a dead seer? I doubt G55 would straight up tell them who the wolves are.

Either I'm slow or there's something straight up shady going on with Boro and Morsul.

The information they get is basically (I just realized I use this word too much.) activities of the wolves and gifted. So the interpretation is that the dead were told one or more wolves received votes on day 1. Boro narrowed that down to myself Pitch and Sally of those two I suspect Sally

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

My main defense against wolfdom is my early vote. A wolf can’t vote first if breaks their bandwagon power. But a vote for their own first, that scatters any plans they could have as per my last post.

To a degree, I agree. But you could be a wolf who has take the gamble that the suspicion of Sally that was in the air yesterDay will continue toDay and by voting for her early you can keep her in the spotlight instead of your fellows. Or you could be wolves with Sally and decided to bus her in an epic way because she's under too much scrutiny. I don't know. I don't like your vote, even if you're innocent, because it's too hasty. If Sally is innocent you have just done the wolves a big favour.

Also I see you're trying to explain the thing to me, but I'm still not following. Yes Form said First Day, five people, and wargs and werewolves, but why do you think they're the people who received votes?

Anyway, I'm off to read Lottie's posts to try to determine why the wolves went for her. She voted for Huin yesterDay, so that can hardly have been the reason.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Since I started about this, one thing is that both Morsul and Boro have interpreted the last thing Form said as response to themselves, but which is it? And if the interpretation is what Boro said, is it that there is only 1 Wolf, or it is that there is at least one but there may be more? (I presume that - and this goes generally also for the future, if there is something important we misinterpret - the Ghost can say something that will address these when he appears.)

To be clear, I still don't trust you, but I'm putting those problems aside for toDay, because, in my opinion, we have to make the best choice from Morsul, Pitch, or sally if we want to fight on another day.

And in my situation with the limited time today, this will likely be my last lengthy post. I was hoping to have another message, if there is one, but that was too hopeful.

Yes, I took Form's response, that at least 1 wolf is among those who received votes on Day 1. But I'm going to operate under the assumption that it is 1. If sally is a wolf, I don't think this should exclude the possibility Morsul or Pitch being one (Or if Morsul's a wolf, that wouldn't exclude sally or Pitch...etc). But if we make it to that event of getting 1 wolf today, Ghost!Form's message about Day 1 wouldn't implicate the other 2 either.

(RL note: I will be pretty much away for the rest of the Day. I was planning on having to vote super early, but I will have my mobile device. So at least I'll still be able to check in and vote from that. This also means - maybe to the delight of many, this will be my last "lengthy" post of the day. )

[Boromir88]

I lied, because I see a confused Lommy...

Originally Posted by Of the Beginning of Days

Therefore at the sixth hour of the First Day,

Of the Beginning of Day, the First Day, meaning this is a message pertaining to Day 1.

Originally Posted by Not At Home

In the Lake-town we have always elected

Mentioning an "election", or in our case a vote. The message pertains to something about Day 1s vote.

Originally Posted by The Riders of Rohan

and five you have measured ere the

"Five you have measured". To be measured, to consider, to deliberate. The 5 we deliberated lynching Day 1.

Morsul
sally
Pitch
Huey
Lottie

Greenie is not included, because she was the Day 1 lynch and revealed innocent. So of the 5 others who we measured (considered) to lynch...

Originally Posted by Three is Company

one of the Big People

Originally Posted by Many Meetings

there are wargs and were-wolves

One of them "there are wargs and were-wolves." As Lottie and Huey have since died and revealed not to be a werewolf, that leaves sally, Pitch, Morsul.

And Form responded after with what looks like a confirmation:

Originally Posted by A Conspiracy Unmasked

'I think,' answered Frodo slowly, 'that it was a good guess, as far as it goes.

Please don't make me explain again. That was a pain on my phone.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Ainulindalë

Then Ilúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that he smiled; and he lifted up his left hand, and a new theme began amid the storm, like and yet unlike to the former theme, and it gathered power and had new beauty.

Originally Posted by The Shadow of the Past

'Last night you began to tell me strange things about my ring, Gandalf,' he said. 'And then you stopped, because you said that such matters were best left until daylight. Don't you think you had better finish now?

Ghost

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I was about to post and I just feel like remarking, wow. Form, I dig this. This is amazing. The only sad thing is that right now I have no idea what you are talking about and I have to be off in a couple of minutes and then won't be around for large part of the Day... but cool.

Short summary post incoming.

[Thinlómien]

Day 1

#6 banter post, uses leaf icon and talks about gardening:

I'm here, I'm here! I spent a lovely morning in the garden. It's time to harden off the seeds - I have some truly delightful tomatoes, artichokes, and cabbage, not to mention the wildest looking morning glory seedling! I see I missed - oh my - three people are dead?!?

Could this have been interpreted as a seer hint? With the words "I see"? But I don't know what gardening has to do with seers?

#36, #42 suspects Greenie and agrees with Kath that Morsul's tunnel vision on Huin is bizarre. Continues about the subject in the next post.

#63 does a legate-180 on Greenie. Flipflops on Morsul, mildly suspects yours truly, says doesn't want to vote for Greenie, Pitch, or Huin.

#69 wants to lynch a quiet person in theory, but not in practice since the quiet ones are Soriman, Sally, Kath and herself.

#73 defends Huin and her defense of Huin.

#77 tries to discredit Pitch's Lottie-Kath wolf duo theory.

#80 speculation about wolf-Form.

#82 continues Morsul-Huin un-wolfpack speculation.

#85 says Sally and Form are unlikely packmates, even though she doesn't seem to suspect either per se.

#95 would prefer to vote Morsul or Pitch, but goes for Greenie.

#100 puzzling out who's left to vote.

Comments: ?? if this had been a Night2 kill, I would have said the wolves thought she dreamed of innocent Huin, but it doesn't make sense because she voted Huin on Day2 which the wolves could hardly have overlooked. Otherwise she was vaguely defending Kath, but it's hard to see that as seerish. She voted for Greenie, who we know was innocent. It's notable she talks a lot about Morsul and suspects him, even though she flipflops about him a little. Could wolf-Morsul have thought she was the seer who had dreamed of him but was trying to downplay her seerishness by adding flip-floppy counter arguments?


Day 2

#112 thinks Form's death points at Sally.

#113 explains her vote, saying she suspected Greenie more than Huin.

#116 questions Morsul about his list post and questions basically everything about it (him not having a read on Legate and myself, suspecting Sally and Kath, trusting Boro and Pitch).

#118 continues pressing Morsul but concedes he sounds more like an ordo.

#123 in reply to Boro and Sally, makes jokes about never playing "normal". Could this have been read as gifted hint?

#148 tries to discredit yours truly's Sally-Lottie wolf pack theory by defending her defense of Sally on Day1. Argues with Pitch about not being packmates with Sally and Huin.

#151, #153 yells at Morsul and Sally for having tunnel vision on her.

#158 questions Pitch about his Day1 voting.

#171 top suspects Sally and Pitch, "weird vibes" from Boro, Legate and yours truly.

#197 reminder of the dead thread vote.

#205 debates between voting Sally and Huin, votes for Huin.

#213 talks about the tie system.

#226 says she would have preferred Sally or Pitch to Huin but other people left to vote didn't seem to agree, also says she didn't want to vote for Boro.

Comments: I am again confused, to be honest. The only one she says she doesn't want to vote - Boro - is also someone she gets "weird vibes" from. As for her suspicions, Morsul is notably there again, but she seems to end up leaning innocent on him, which would be weird from a seer regarding a known wolf, unless she concluded that she can't get him lynched and she was desperate to hide from Nightly attention? Also suspects Sally and Pitch, but didn't vote either, but instead Huin. You'd think that if she'd have been the seer who had dreamed of wolf-Sally, she'd have given her the third vote and hoped some living or dead would follow her lead. You'd think wolf-Sally would think that too, even though paranoid wolf Sally or Sally getting framed seems to be a running joke in this game. Not sure what to think of that. Pitch then? Lottie suspected him throughout the Day, but nobody voted for him - and I think I may have been the only other one besides Lottie who seriously entertained the idea. So a seer-Lottie could have dreamed of a wolf-Pitch and not voted for him, because as she said, there was not enough support for the idea. This makes me want to look at Pitch closer.

Comments of comments: Lottie's death points to Pitch the most, and to a lesser degree, Sally and Morsul.

Comments of comments of comments: Also very interesting that Lottie's death seems to point at the exact same trio that Boro and Morsul think the ghost posting points at.


edit: xed with everyone! I see there's a lot but Legate and I have to be at Nogrod's in 40 minutes to have some family quality time marathorning Star Wars movies so I don't have the time to reply right now. Thanks Boro for very gallantly offering to explain the ghost stuff to me, I'll see later in the evening (European time) whether it makes sense to me or whether I think you're pulling my leg.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by The Siege of Gondor

'The morning of two days ago, nigh on three days of journey! How far is the place where you parted?'

Originally Posted by Not at Home

"In the Lake-town we have always elected masters from among the old and wise, and have not endured the rule of mere fighting men.

Originally Posted by The Mirror of Galadriel

All of them, it seemed, had fared alike: each had felt that he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lay ahead, and something that he greatly desired: clear before his mind it lay, and to get it he had only to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest and the war against Sauron to others.

Originally Posted by Farewell to Lórien

'For you little gardener and lover of trees,' she said to Sam, 'I have only a small gift.'

Originally Posted by Roast Mutton

"Lots and none at all, it is," said he.

Originally Posted by The Shadow of the Past

Your ring is shown to be that One Ring by the fire-writing alone, apart from any other evidence.'
'And when did you discover that?' asked Frodo, interrupting.
'Just now in this room, of course,' answered the wizard sharply.

Ghost

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

My main defense against wolfdom is my early vote. A wolf can’t vote first if breaks their bandwagon power. But a vote for their own first, that scatters any plans they could have as per my last post.

You realise that a Wolf doing so would empower *their* bandwagon that way. And like I said, even if you were innocent, it is just plain irresponsible to vote before half of the village even showed up.

That being said, sally has been slipping under the radar a lot, which is a perfect behaviour for a Wolf. She did so while at the same getting votes during both Days, and nearly getting lynched yesterDay. If she is a Wolf, then one could expect her packmates to have had hand in it. If she is innocent, with her getting votes both Days, the Wolves would probably think she would be the perfect scapegoat for toDay with the likelihood that people would vote her. That is the one reason I am uneasy with this start and I would hold our horses at least until we've had the time to seriously consider everything.

I like Lommy's more sensible approach, even though she seems also confused to a degree. For that matter,

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Also, G55, I'm confused, can we ask direct question of the ghost like Morsul did? I thought not?

We can ask questions, we cannot give specific directions and I presume not any phantom-esque moves.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

To be clear, I still don't trust you, but I'm putting those problems aside for toDay, because, in my opinion, we have to make the best choice from Morsul, Pitch, or sally if we want to fight on another day.

Feeling is mutual, especially with you and Morsul steering most of toDay's conversation from the onset.

Otherwise, I took a very quick look at Loslote's posts, and like I said, her votes were for innocents, so the Wolves would hardly have any reason to think her a Seer based on that. The one thing that jumped at me was her desperate defense yesterDay. That is something the WWs might have absolutely seen as a Gifted feeling threatened and cracking under pressure - and it probably was just that, only it was not the Seer, but the Ranger:

Originally Posted by Loslote

If there was a LottieWolf, maybe. I am not a wolf. You will get no information from lynching me, and the people who are spending the whole Day barking up this tree are giving the wolves perfect cover in which to operate. Please, just look at one (1) other person toDay. The village doesn’t benefit from wasting the whole day suspecting the same (innocent, believe it or not) person.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Well, yes. Several people have said nothing all Day except that I seem suspicious. I am getting tired of that - look at other options! My vote stands out because it was the deciding one. Well, if Pitch had voted before me and Huin had turned out to be innocent, maybe my vote would have been the throwaway vote and his would have been the one that saved Greenie and you all would think Pitch and Greenie were packmates. That's just the position we were both in at the end of yesterDay, because people didn't vote, and I strongly suspect two innocents were the ones most likely to go home. I made a decision. I didn't especially suspect Greenie, but I chose to keep Huin, and now you and Morsul are all but refusing to look at anyone else because of it. It is frustrating, and I am a bit touchy at this point. I'm not a wolf, and I really, really wish you guys would spend more time looking for wolves than just reiterating that you suspect me. I get it, I do, but please don't just let the wolves skate by completely unnoticed because you can't stop talking about me!

I think that outburst alone could have been a good sign of Giftedness. (And it is possible, however less likely, that the WWs might have decided to just go for someone they thought "a" Gifted, even if it was not "the" Gifted. Especially in this small village.)

Saddly I gotta rush off now. And like I said I'm going to be away for large part of toDay, but will be back hopefully several hours before DL, so as to have time to post and vote based on hopefully some more clarifying discussion. Sucks that I have to leave just when the Ghost seems to be around, maybe I'll manage to make some quick post still now, but I'm not betting on that.

EDIT: x-ed after my last

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Feeling is mutual, especially with you and Morsul steering most of toDay's conversation from the onset.

That's only fair. But I do answer with, you are also a steersman. Steering is in my nature just as much as it is in yours. I know where I'm steering, sometimes it is not straight, sometimes there are rapids ahead, and therefor it's better to take the longer path. Sometimes you must brave the rapids and risk losing folk with a true-heart in them. One thing I'm certain of, is I do not wish to be like my namesake and go straight over the falls of Rauros.

I agree there is more to do today than interpreting Form's messages and I like that there will be other conversations. For toDay, Legate perhaps it is a comfort to you that my steering is done. As Boromir says to Aragorn after Moria, "Lead on!" My flaw, I must often be reminded that 2 steersman, both with a good and loyal heart can pull in opposite directions. So my question to you, steersman, where are you going and what is your flaw?

[Boromir88]

And seeing now Form is back...the other message. I think his post #273 it's clear he's enjoying being our ghost and therefor he's living out his dream of being a story-teller.

Then Ilúvatar arose, and the Ainur perceived that he smiled; and he lifted up his left hand, and a new theme began amid the storm

"perceived that he smiled," so we have interpreted the first message correctly? But wait, there's another "a new theme began amid the storm."

'Last night you began to tell me strange things about my ring, Gandalf,' he said. 'And then you stopped, because you said that such matters were best left until daylight. Don't you think you had better finish now?

It's a "wait there's more, you said it was better left until daylight." Aren't you going to finish the message?

I never was into ghost stories, but I do love a ghost Form telling us stories. Now as to the message in #276 I haven't the slightest idea yet.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Also, G55, I'm confused, can we ask direct question of the ghost like Morsul did? I thought not?

You can ask questions, you may not instruct him in how to answer or what to do.

Essentially, the goal is to Phantom-proof the idea and eliminate instructions like "If X is a wolf quote Gandalf, but if X is innocent quote Frodo".

Also, may as well say it now because I forgot to last evening. It was sort of agreed by lack of dissent on the Admjn thread that the Ghost role may be reevaluated after the first use and modified mid-game if needed. After toDay I will welcome feedback from all roles about the Ghost, and if the opinion sways a certain way then the next apparition may be subject to slightly different rules.