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#241 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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Morsul the Resurrected |
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#242 |
Laconic Loreman
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Seconded. I just hope we do manage to get a wolf and live to see another day for another ghost.
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#243 |
Laconic Loreman
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"We must guess the riddles if we are to choose our course rightly"
--- So, I take this to mean we have to start asking Ghost!Form questions to get the messages he has, and that meaning they can't just reveal it. Alright, is there a formal way about this...or can we just kind of wing it? Ghost!Form have our fallen kin learned of the name of a betrayer among our ranks?
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#244 | ||||
Dead Serious
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#245 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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So the wolves or at least one or two of them were in the bandwagon. That narrows it down.
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#246 | |
Dead Serious
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#247 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,356
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Warning
A gentle reminder that Ghost quotes must be full sentences. Do not delete what you have up, Form, but in future please put your communication in full sentence quotes.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#248 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Myself Lommy Legate Pitch I've already spent yesterday focusing on Legate. And of course you are under no obligation to listen to me, but if you'd like, perhaps you can dig into Legate's posts, perhaps see something I haven't. Dig into my posts if you want or whoever else suits you. I've been too trusting towards Pitch and Lommy the first 2 days and need to look into them. In the next couple hours I think I'll have to bid everyone namárië until the morning.
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#249 |
Laconic Loreman
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Ahh crossed with the Ghost's response. Apparently that's a no. Ok scrap that but Morsul's question is on the right trail.
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#250 | |||||
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#251 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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No?
Boro Lommy Legate Pitch Lottie all voted Huey That Leaves Me, Kath, Sally, Sorimon I’m a nobody. No way it’s that easy. Form I don’t know if you can answer this. Can you confirm this interpretation is correct?
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#252 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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Boro if this interpretation is correct then you are innocent. I’m in the group of suspects. I’m innocent but can’t prove it. Who would you vote for out of us four?
We should wait for confirmation but I think we might’ve just nailed this down.
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#253 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Actually 6 people received a vote on Day 1. Morsul Pitch Huey Greenie Sally Lottie But Greenie was the Day 1 lynch, so of the 5 others. At least 1 is a wolf. Huey, Lottie are now killed after Day 1. Leaving at least 1 wolf among Morsul Sally Pitch
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#254 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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That’s probably a better interpretation. Mine would’ve been too easy.
So we’re thinking Sally or Pitch yes me too but I’m innocent. I really think this information taken with the strong possibility Form was killed as a seer... I’ll take the plunge. ++Sally
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#255 | |
Dead Serious
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#256 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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See FormerForm got my back ghost fist bump
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#257 |
Laconic Loreman
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I feel like this like a game of 20 questions, Werewolf edition (Ooh. New game thread idea).
Ghost!Form, this will have to be a generic one, before I waste time trying to think of another question. Do you have another message from the "Vision of Iluvatar" to tell us?
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#258 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,356
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![]() Anyways, enjoy communing with the Dead!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#260 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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No matter what your role you wouldn't be voting for yourself, so if you are innocent, from your perspective at worst it's a 50/50 shot. And Form's death night 1 could certainly implicate sally as the wolf more than Pitch. From my perspective, I can't take that plunge yet because worst case it's a 33% chance. I suppose it's possible 2 (or even 3! ![]() Quote:
Currently my best guess to the wolf among the three would go... sally - because of Form being killed Night 1 Pitch - because he cautioned me yesterday about who I was trusting, but he himself has seemed to be pretty trusting towards me Morsul - The quick vote for sally first struck me as suspicious, but also realizing to him it's a 50/50 shot, and quickly made up his mind sally's the wolf because Form being night killed.
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#261 |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
Posts: 5,789
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Well, that was unexpected. I see my radar for gifteds is equal to my radar for wolves, unfortunately. Sorry, Lottie. I owe you one.
As for these accusations against me, I hope you don't think me foolish enough to kill someone suspecting me on the first night of a game. That's rather offensive, to be honest. I welcome accusations, though of course when I'm innocent, as I am now, votes not so much. I think Morsul is more misguided than evil, though innocents can do just as much damage if acting on the wrong information, as he is now. I'm currently very tired, though I will be around all of the rest of the day, so I'll see everyone again in the morning. Hopefully we can put this behind us and not lynch an innocent (read, me). More thoughts on the thread later. For now, sleep.
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"My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.
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#262 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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So killing seerForm would limit his dreams and even if you get killed for it you get control of the DT. In a normal game your argument would hold more water. In a game with a ghost the strategy for the wolves needs and rewards aggression. I stand by my vote.
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#263 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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To be honest after yesterDay, the Ghost appearing is a welcome relief. And yeah I have to second what others said, Form, you are nailing it. I figure that right now the Ghost may be probably asleep, which is a pity, because I'd have liked to ask a few things for clarification. I hope that before the Day is done the rest of us will also have the chance to interact more directly with the Ghost.
Since I started about this, one thing is that both Morsul and Boro have interpreted the last thing Form said as response to themselves, but which is it? And if the interpretation is what Boro said, is it that there is only 1 Wolf, or it is that there is at least one but there may be more? (I presume that - and this goes generally also for the future, if there is something important we misinterpret - the Ghost can say something that will address these when he appears.) And one more remark while I am at the subject. I think the Ghost's first words were not just a greeting, but mainly a "take it slow" remark, especially in the response to Morsul's first-posts' action plans which, by the way, I don't endorse at all. And now he even sabotaged them himself by voting within like three seconds. That is nothing to say about voting sally, which may be a good idea, but now Morsul effectively forces everybody's hand, and that's just absolutely irresponsible (in the better case) before majority of the village had the chance to even discuss this. Does not help that first gets lynched and per Boro's and Morsul's interpretation of the Ghost's words, Morsul could be on the shortlist of Wolves. Anyway, I also second Boro's request that if you, Gorlim (Forlim?) have any other information from "the council of Ilúvatar", you should tell us first before it gets buried under our own speculations. If the Dead have some speculation, then of course it is just a speculation, but if there is for example something relevant you have concluded, anything that might shed light on anything is helpful. Otherwise however, I think we should not just tunnel-vision on the Ghost toDay, however nice it is. We better catch a Wolf toDay and also in the future Days, and the Ranger dying is actually a big setback in these numbers. Which brings me to one question we should look at - so why did Lottie get targeted? I still assume the Wolves primarily go for the Seer (and I don't assume they thought her the Ranger and killed her for that, unless she somewhere advertised it blatantly and they saw it - but I don't see why a Ranger should advertise...). The puzzling part about it is that she voted for two innocents on the previous Days, so the Wolves would have no reason to kill her based on those. I will look into it. EDIT: x-ed with Morsul. Whoa, somebody is around!
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#264 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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Yeah, basically. It forces the wolves to hide and bus one of their own or vote in tandem trying to save them revealing themselves. Or to try to hide more effectively they have to avoid bandwagonning. Either way their power is broken. I had originally put my vote in my first post, at that point it was a much more desperate shot in the dark. FormerForm’s information bears out my suspicion and I can more confidently make the vote.
Edit: I’m around now but I work today noon to 8(DL is 7pm for me) so I’ll have much less interaction throughout the day.
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Morsul the Resurrected Last edited by Morsul the Dark; 04-25-2021 at 03:43 AM. |
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#265 | |||
Laconic Loreman
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Now that's not at all a reaction I would expect from an innocent sally. You seem almost resigned to the fact you're going to be lynched today. And if you are innocent than I don't think you would be trying to guilt trip and make us feel uneasy that you now act resigned to your fate.
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Hindsight reveals he wasn't, but that doesn't change the fact he was the wolves first kill and they don't know who the Seer is. If he turned out to be the seer, I guarantee you (if you are a wolf) wouldn't be trying to make us feel like we're being offensive. We've all done it (well, excluding Soriman, hopefully we haven't scared you away! We are very odd people and ghosts). We've all thought we picked up a sign from someone at some point about their role, like "Boro has to be the seer" and if the wolves thought that Night 1, I'm dead instead of Form. What particularly doesn't make sense is... Quote:
Your reaction is quite different. Quote:
So...are you a sacrificial wolf, because Pitch is also a wolf and you are hoping we move away from Pitch after your lynch? ![]()
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#266 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Reading and commenting
First off: feeling really bad about the Huin lynch, on multiple levels. I can't believe I noticed Form's death made him more likely innocent and ignored that
![]() ![]() But banter aside, entering Day3 without having a wolf lynched is always a little demoralising, especially with having just lost our ranger. We're gonna need all the help we can get toDay. And speaking of losing our ranger, that sucks, also because Lottie was one of the few people I was confident was innocent. And still about the Huin lynch: like I said, I will be looking at Boro and Legate toDay. Especially the former is ringing all my alarms now that I know Huin was innocent. The way he orchestrated the Huin lynch (despite suspecting Legate more originally? Do we have a Boro-Legate duo?) then started calling everyone else wolves for voting with him rubs me as wrong as something can rub me. Also I have to confess I suck at reading Legate in ww, so I usually keep a bit of a distance to him and give him the benefit of doubt for the first few Days unless he does something super shady, because often one of us getting killed/lynched solves the dilemma for me. But since it's Day3 and we're in dire straits, I'm aware I have to start paying more attention to him. Now onwards to toDay... Not a fan of Morsul's plans, for reasons that I don't feel confident expressing in public. Ghost Form! Yay! Already from the first post I can see this will be fun. Not sure I follow the dead's logic though. Call the beasts? Ie the wolves? Wolves, would you like to show yourselves? I don't follow Morsul and Boro's logic in parsing the ghost quotes? Why do you think he's specifically talking about Huinwagon? Or about Morsul / Sally / Pitch ? Also, G55, I'm confused, can we ask direct question of the ghost like Morsul did? I thought not? Also Morsul!!!! Why are you voting so early!! When you just said yourself we have to think carefully toDay??? As far as I see, you haven't really spent much time toDay analysing anybody or wondering why Lottie was killed. You just want us all to follow your gut? Geez, I don't like this. Okay, possibly a wolf would not be so brazen but you're narrowing our options on a whim and I don't like that. Or maybe Sally looks like a convenient target others might get behind because she's hardly been here but she's been suspected? Red flags. (I still don't have much of an opinion on Sally, since she hasn't been around. But I see she has a posted toDay already. Good.) I don't know. I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who's willing to dig a trench and go hard from the beginning of the Day - that's what someone who knows who are on their side and who aren't would do. As has been pointed out, toDay is likely crucial. Therefore the wolves need to direct the village to lynch one of their own. They can go hard. They probably decided last Night who they're gunning for toDay. The rest of us can't afford tunnel vision like that, we have to actually think. edit: xed with Boro
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#267 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Can someone explain to me that since when is one of Morsul, Sally and Pitch a werewolf?
And since this seems to come from Form's posts, how would the dead know? Since we don't have a dead seer? I doubt G55 would straight up tell them who the wolves are. Either I'm slow or there's something straight up shady going on with Boro and Morsul.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#268 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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My main defense against wolfdom is my early vote. A wolf can’t vote first if breaks their bandwagon power. But a vote for their own first, that scatters any plans they could have as per my last post.
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#269 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
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#270 | |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Also I see you're trying to explain the thing to me, but I'm still not following. Yes Form said First Day, five people, and wargs and werewolves, but why do you think they're the people who received votes? ![]() Anyway, I'm off to read Lottie's posts to try to determine why the wolves went for her. She voted for Huin yesterDay, so that can hardly have been the reason.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
Last edited by Thinlómien; 04-25-2021 at 04:13 AM. Reason: fixed typo her -> your |
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#271 | |
Laconic Loreman
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And in my situation with the limited time today, this will likely be my last lengthy post. I was hoping to have another message, if there is one, but that was too hopeful. Yes, I took Form's response, that at least 1 wolf is among those who received votes on Day 1. But I'm going to operate under the assumption that it is 1. If sally is a wolf, I don't think this should exclude the possibility Morsul or Pitch being one (Or if Morsul's a wolf, that wouldn't exclude sally or Pitch...etc). But if we make it to that event of getting 1 wolf today, Ghost!Form's message about Day 1 wouldn't implicate the other 2 either. (RL note: I will be pretty much away for the rest of the Day. I was planning on having to vote super early, but I will have my mobile device. So at least I'll still be able to check in and vote from that. This also means - maybe to the delight of many, this will be my last "lengthy" post of the day. ![]()
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#272 | ||||||
Laconic Loreman
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I lied, because I see a confused Lommy...
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Morsul sally Pitch Huey Lottie Greenie is not included, because she was the Day 1 lynch and revealed innocent. So of the 5 others who we measured (considered) to lynch... Quote:
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And Form responded after with what looks like a confirmation: Quote:
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#273 | ||
Dead Serious
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#274 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Okay, I was about to post and I just feel like remarking, wow. Form, I dig this. This is amazing. The only sad thing is that right now I have no idea what you are talking about and I have to be off in a couple of minutes and then won't be around for large part of the Day... but cool.
Short summary post incoming.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#275 | |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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A Look at Lottie
Day 1
#6 banter post, uses leaf icon and talks about gardening: Quote:
#36, #42 suspects Greenie and agrees with Kath that Morsul's tunnel vision on Huin is bizarre. Continues about the subject in the next post. #63 does a legate-180 on Greenie. Flipflops on Morsul, mildly suspects yours truly, says doesn't want to vote for Greenie, Pitch, or Huin. #69 wants to lynch a quiet person in theory, but not in practice since the quiet ones are Soriman, Sally, Kath and herself. #73 defends Huin and her defense of Huin. #77 tries to discredit Pitch's Lottie-Kath wolf duo theory. #80 speculation about wolf-Form. #82 continues Morsul-Huin un-wolfpack speculation. #85 says Sally and Form are unlikely packmates, even though she doesn't seem to suspect either per se. #95 would prefer to vote Morsul or Pitch, but goes for Greenie. #100 puzzling out who's left to vote. Comments: ?? if this had been a Night2 kill, I would have said the wolves thought she dreamed of innocent Huin, but it doesn't make sense because she voted Huin on Day2 which the wolves could hardly have overlooked. Otherwise she was vaguely defending Kath, but it's hard to see that as seerish. She voted for Greenie, who we know was innocent. It's notable she talks a lot about Morsul and suspects him, even though she flipflops about him a little. Could wolf-Morsul have thought she was the seer who had dreamed of him but was trying to downplay her seerishness by adding flip-floppy counter arguments? Day 2 #112 thinks Form's death points at Sally. #113 explains her vote, saying she suspected Greenie more than Huin. #116 questions Morsul about his list post and questions basically everything about it (him not having a read on Legate and myself, suspecting Sally and Kath, trusting Boro and Pitch). #118 continues pressing Morsul but concedes he sounds more like an ordo. #123 in reply to Boro and Sally, makes jokes about never playing "normal". Could this have been read as gifted hint? #148 tries to discredit yours truly's Sally-Lottie wolf pack theory by defending her defense of Sally on Day1. Argues with Pitch about not being packmates with Sally and Huin. #151, #153 yells at Morsul and Sally for having tunnel vision on her. #158 questions Pitch about his Day1 voting. #171 top suspects Sally and Pitch, "weird vibes" from Boro, Legate and yours truly. #197 reminder of the dead thread vote. #205 debates between voting Sally and Huin, votes for Huin. #213 talks about the tie system. #226 says she would have preferred Sally or Pitch to Huin but other people left to vote didn't seem to agree, also says she didn't want to vote for Boro. Comments: I am again confused, to be honest. The only one she says she doesn't want to vote - Boro - is also someone she gets "weird vibes" from. As for her suspicions, Morsul is notably there again, but she seems to end up leaning innocent on him, which would be weird from a seer regarding a known wolf, unless she concluded that she can't get him lynched and she was desperate to hide from Nightly attention? Also suspects Sally and Pitch, but didn't vote either, but instead Huin. You'd think that if she'd have been the seer who had dreamed of wolf-Sally, she'd have given her the third vote and hoped some living or dead would follow her lead. You'd think wolf-Sally would think that too, even though paranoid wolf Sally or Sally getting framed seems to be a running joke in this game. Not sure what to think of that. Pitch then? Lottie suspected him throughout the Day, but nobody voted for him - and I think I may have been the only other one besides Lottie who seriously entertained the idea. So a seer-Lottie could have dreamed of a wolf-Pitch and not voted for him, because as she said, there was not enough support for the idea. This makes me want to look at Pitch closer. Comments of comments: Lottie's death points to Pitch the most, and to a lesser degree, Sally and Morsul. Comments of comments of comments: Also very interesting that Lottie's death seems to point at the exact same trio that Boro and Morsul think the ghost posting points at. edit: xed with everyone! I see there's a lot but Legate and I have to be at Nogrod's in 40 minutes to have some family quality time marathorning Star Wars movies ![]() ![]()
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#276 | ||||||
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#277 | |||||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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That being said, sally has been slipping under the radar a lot, which is a perfect behaviour for a Wolf. She did so while at the same getting votes during both Days, and nearly getting lynched yesterDay. If she is a Wolf, then one could expect her packmates to have had hand in it. If she is innocent, with her getting votes both Days, the Wolves would probably think she would be the perfect scapegoat for toDay with the likelihood that people would vote her. That is the one reason I am uneasy with this start and I would hold our horses at least until we've had the time to seriously consider everything. I like Lommy's more sensible approach, even though she seems also confused to a degree. For that matter, Quote:
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Otherwise, I took a very quick look at Loslote's posts, and like I said, her votes were for innocents, so the Wolves would hardly have any reason to think her a Seer based on that. The one thing that jumped at me was her desperate defense yesterDay. That is something the WWs might have absolutely seen as a Gifted feeling threatened and cracking under pressure - and it probably was just that, only it was not the Seer, but the Ranger: Quote:
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Saddly I gotta rush off now. And like I said I'm going to be away for large part of toDay, but will be back hopefully several hours before DL, so as to have time to post and vote based on hopefully some more clarifying discussion. Sucks that I have to leave just when the Ghost seems to be around, maybe I'll manage to make some quick post still now, but I'm not betting on that. EDIT: x-ed after my last
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#278 | |
Laconic Loreman
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I agree there is more to do today than interpreting Form's messages and I like that there will be other conversations. For toDay, Legate perhaps it is a comfort to you that my steering is done. As Boromir says to Aragorn after Moria, "Lead on!" My flaw, I must often be reminded that 2 steersman, both with a good and loyal heart can pull in opposite directions. So my question to you, steersman, where are you going and what is your flaw?
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#279 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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And seeing now Form is back...the other message. I think his post #273 it's clear he's enjoying being our ghost and therefor he's living out his dream of being a story-teller.
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I never was into ghost stories, but I do love a ghost Form telling us stories. ![]()
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#280 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,356
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Catching up to you people. Addressing things as I come across them
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Essentially, the goal is to Phantom-proof the idea and eliminate instructions like "If X is a wolf quote Gandalf, but if X is innocent quote Frodo". Also, may as well say it now because I forgot to last evening. It was sort of agreed by lack of dissent on the Admjn thread that the Ghost role may be reevaluated after the first use and modified mid-game if needed. After toDay I will welcome feedback from all roles about the Ghost, and if the opinion sways a certain way then the next apparition may be subject to slightly different rules.
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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