Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, as the cat is out of the bag, I might say a few things as well. It's been proved that 'newbie' players can be as talented and contribute as much as those with more games under their belt - and hey, it's one of the best ways to learn to be thrown in a group with more experienced people who can teach you. I think the atmosphere in the games has been rather welcoming, so at least there shouldn't be a reason why newcomers would have to be intimidated in 'adult' WWs.

Having two games going on simultaneously has led to a situation where a player, after his or her death in one game, joins another while the first one is still unfinished. I think there was a rule that a player can't be in two games at the same time, and this said situation seems like stretching the rule. Not that it would be a horrible thing to break a rule, per se, but one of the consequences of it is that if everyone who has died in a WW game go and join a WWJ while the first game is still going on, there won't be enough people willing to play when the recruiting for a new WW game starts.

I agree with Mithalwen that smaller games are welcome, but I can't see why there couldn't be a 'normal' WW game of approx. 13-15 players.

However, when summer comes, people will probably have more time to play, and there might be enough people for two simultaneous games...

[Cailín]

I agree with Spawn.

I need add no more. Except that I will be too busy to commit to any game for a while.

[Kath]

I wonder if the lack of commital for Farael's game is due in part to those who want to join lmp's and know that it will be a huge undertaking whatever the role. If the next game in line were simple and not as demanding I think the sign up rate would be higher.

I also think that the WWJ games should continue, as quite often they are the simpler version and allow people like Mith who can't commit to a long name or newbies who aren't confident enough to join a senior game to play.

If we had just the one game there would be people unable to join due to number limits, and if you died first Night and it was a long game that leaves a pretty long gap before you're able to play again, if you are able to play again straight away bearing in mind there may be a queue of those who didn't get in last time and you may feel it unfair to shove them out again.

[Nogrod]

I agree with Kath, and several others. We probably should maintain parallel games, but we should also pay heed for their timing. So not beginning the games simultaneously but preferably overlapping each other, so that the early drop-outs, really wanting to play, could recruit to the other game, and overall, people would have choice to which game they might want to commit themselves.

That said, I would also like to see the TiG games be more complicated / larger etc. as the TigJ games. So there would be something like a basic-game area for newbies like me (and those who just love the basic game), and then the "advanced" game. That should of course not be anything formal or restrictive in any way, not to talk of making grounds for any normative judgements about the betterness of one over the other.

So if Farael's game starts in a few days, I guess Diamond should start recruiting people en suite, but start the real game only after Farael's game is drawing to the end - as is happening now in relation to Valier's TigJ game and Farael's TiG game.

PS. What is the queuing situation in the TiG? In TigJ there are three games on the list: Diamond, Samwise, Nogrod & Thinlomien. If there are no reservations in the TiG after LMP, I think we (me & Lommy) could change our game from TiGJ list to TiG -thread after LMP?

[Kath]

Woah there Nogrod. I'm after lmp.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So if Farael's game starts in a few days, I guess Diamond should start recruiting people en suite, but start the real game only after Farael's game is drawing to the end - as is happening now in relation to Valier's TigJ game and Farael's TiG game.

That's how I was planning it. Then while my game is being played, LMP's game would be getting recruits, and as my game finished LMP's game would start, etc. This might not please some who don't like the idea of playing in a game right on the heels of another game, but I think that should be a personal desicion made on their parts rather than something forced on everyone. I don't really see how signing up for a game right after you've been killed bends the rule of not playing in more than one at a time. When you're dead you can't post, you can't PM, you can't play. You're decidedly not in the game.

PS. What is the queuing situation in the TiG? In TigJ there are three games on the list: Diamond, Samwise, Nogrod & Thinlomien. If there are no reservations in the TiG after LMP, I think we (me & Lommy) could change our game from TiGJ list to TiG -thread after LMP?

I think Kath is after LMP.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

This might not please some who don't like the idea of playing in a game right on the heels of another game, but I think that should be a personal desicion made on their parts rather than something forced on everyone. I don't really see how signing up for a game right after you've been killed bends the rule of not playing in more than one at a time. When you're dead you can't post, you can't PM, you can't play.

I totally agree with Diamond about this (being a person who would like to have played for the last week or so, but were killed the first night by some werecats, and have from that on just waited for the next one to start - which frustratingly hasn't moved a bit forwards, not to say begun...).

I understand, that you can't be wholeheartedly in two games simultaneously. That's a good argument, but I guess you could be Gil-Galad, Gandalf or Alcarillo in ten games at the same time... But that's another problem.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I'd love it if you waited a few days, Farael... then I could play!

Regarding the WWJ vs. WW issue...

I think that WWJ games should be played as needed. That is, when there is a surplus of players who can't get into a regular game. In other words, they should not being going on, one after another, as a matter of course, in the same way that the regular games follow each other.

.

I disagree -WWJ is not simply WW overspill it is a alternative - for some of use the only possibility given the way the senior games have gone lately.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

This might not please some who don't like the idea of playing in a game right on the heels of another game, but I think that should be a personal desicion made on their parts rather than something forced on everyone. I don't really see how signing up for a game right after you've been killed bends the rule of not playing in more than one at a time. When you're dead you can't post, you can't PM, you can't play. You're decidedly not in the game.

The point, I think, is not if someone has broken a rule or not, but rather what are the consequences of signing up for a parallel game while the original one is still going on.

It's true that when you die in a game, you can't participate in the villagers' discussions anymore, but you can still enjoy the game by reading it. When there was just one game going on at a time, if you got a spot in it, it was great and you did your best to stay alive and commit to playing. Now that there are two simultaneous games, it's not a big deal if you die. On the contrary, if you manage to get yourself killed early, you get to play in two games. All this planning "if I'm dead by then" etc. just seems a bit inconsiderate towards the mod of the game that the player originally joined.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by dancinf spawn of ungoliant

All this planning "if I'm dead by then" etc. just seems a bit inconsiderate towards the mod of the game that the player originally joined.

I quite agree with that point spawn, and it is one of the reasons that prompted my inittial thought.

But thank you to everyone for your responses. They are just what I was hoping for, as I am certainly not suggesting simply shutting down the WWJ thread without consideration of the matter. Indeed, I am not really suggesting shutting down the WWJ thread at all. My main concern was whether there was enough interest to justify two games at the same time. I rather like the idea of maintaing the WWJ thread as an "overspill".

While I agree that one of the initial purposes of the WWJ thread was for "newbies" to "cut their teeth", that has become less of a factor. Many experienced players now play in the WWJ games, while "newbies" have started out in the "senior" games, generally without too much difficulty.

I also see no reason why the "senior" games should be more complex and the WWJ games less so. I am not sure that this has been the trend. It has really just been up to whoever was modded particular games and their preferences. That said, if games are smaller (in village) size, there probably is good reason to retain scope for two games to run at a time. My personal preference is for smaller less complex games anyway so I would rather see more of both types in both threads.

With regard to modding, I did propose a while back doing away with the modding lists. I think it much better that whoever is around when a game finishes and wants to mod should be able to do so, taking into account those who have expressed a wish to mod previously.

In any event, I have no objection to both threads continuing. Perhaps it is just the unseemly rushes from one game to another that prompted my concerns after all. I do think that a committment to a game should be whole-hearted and for the entirety of that game, as it does seem rather hard on a mod to be talking about the possibility of dying in his or her game in order to be able to play in the next. I don't see the WW craze dying out completely any time soon, so there will always be another game if you miss recruitment for one. That's happened to me a number of times, but I have always managed to tag onto another game without having to wait too long.

Perhaps it's because I have been playing in WW since it started here, but I do think that a little "calmness" and some restraint from wanting to be in every game going may be in order ...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said already. I feel like a lot of us are in difficult schedule positions, but that the enthusiasm is still there.

Perhaps in the future, we could let WWJ peter out in the springtime, but then start it up again in the summer when everyone has enough time on their hands.

This is just a particularly tough time of the year--finals, etc. Actually, for me, this time isn't too bad--my stress level is way down because I have gotten into college, which is a huge thing that I now don't have to worry about.

I just hope we get enough players soon, I've been really excited about this game!

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Spawn

It's true that when you die in a game, you can't participate in the villagers' discussions anymore, but you can still enjoy the game by reading it. When there was just one game going on at a time, if you got a spot in it, it was great and you did your best to stay alive and commit to playing. Now that there are two simultaneous games, it's not a big deal if you die. On the contrary, if you manage to get yourself killed early, you get to play in two games. All this planning "if I'm dead by then" etc. just seems a bit inconsiderate towards the mod of the game that the player originally joined.

I guess I don't really see it that way. And if the mod takes it that way, well, you can't control how other people view things. Personally, I like winning, and the longer I can survive in a game, the more it feels like winning. Of course, in Val's game I was the Hunter so in order to perform my role I needed to die. Ergo, I had plans for dying. Though, it still drives me crazy to not be able to post anymore. But anyway, I think anyone who truly enjoys werewolfing likes to stay alive in a game (though reading your own death scene is fun!) So I can't really agree that this worry about players not caring about the game enough because they know they can join another one, is that big of a deal. Those kind of players aren't really going to be as into werewolf as others are, no matter what. I think it's a fair assessment to say that players such as Nogrod and I signed up for this game as soon as we were dead in our last, because we think werewolf is really fun. Nothing so inconsiderate about that.

When I told Farael I might play, depending on how Valier's game went, I was just letting him know that I had interest in his game. If there was a conflict between the two games, though, Val's game would without a doubt be my first priority. I think that was clear.

Everyone has a different way of approaching the games, and some of us have more time on our hands to devote to them. I can play in one game, express my interest in another, and plan my own at the same time, without feeling overwhelmed. Those who can't balance all those things, shouldn't. But again, it's a personal desicion.

Originally Posted by SpM

Perhaps it is just the unseemly rushes from one game to another that prompted my concerns after all. I do think that a committment to a game should be whole-hearted and for the entirety of that game, as it does seem rather hard on a mod to be talking about the possibility of dying in his or her game in order to be able to play in the next.

Again, I don't see it as unseemly. One can be committed to playing a game and still acknowledge the fact that, because of how the game works, they might be out of the game before it comes to its conclusion. If you don't enjoy the game enough to do your best, you shouldn't really be playing in any game -- Senior, Junior, one after another, or few and far between. But that's an unrelated matter.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

In any event, I have no objection to both threads continuing. Perhaps it is just the unseemly rushes from one game to another that prompted my concerns after all. I do think that a committment to a game should be whole-hearted and for the entirety of that game, as it does seem rather hard on a mod to be talking about the possibility of dying in his or her game in order to be able to play in the next.

I think there is a reason for a kind of "double standards" here. I do agree with Sauce and others in thinking, that people should not rush from one game to another.

But then again, there's a kind of difference between people playing: when f.ex. Roa or myself (or Lommy) says, one can't be in wholeheartedly, it means they only post 5-10 posts / day - and having Gil-Galad post more than once / day, would be a miracle. It's not so easy, as quantity making for quality... but most of the time, people posting more are posting substantially, whereas people posting once aDay seem to be those just hanging on.

So, we have different timetables, we have different time-zones, but we also have different dedication to playing the game. So it isn't right to judge people by their willingness to participate on another game as such.

I myself admit having written a very bad post concerninig Valier's game (thinking I would be killed very soon with my tactics of playing, and thence being able to join Farael's game), but that's something is luckily behind now, as the "cats" thought of killing me the first night. I hope, I have learned from this.

I hope also, we all should see the point here: let the people playing wholeheartedly play the game/s (in TiG or TiGJ, one or two games at the time)? If there is clearly a lack of commitment, let us then be critical, and the person her/himself should learn from it.

Everyone should be wise enough to see her / his own limits: not assigning to more games (any games in BD or otherwise) that s/he can manage, but also taking advantage of several games, if there are resources for really playing them... I wouldn't even think of beginning two games simyltaneously, but might consider joining one when another is ending.

Just tact, or good judgement required...

EDIT: X-posted with Diamond: just applauding her post! She's got reason.

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=The Saucepan Man]

I also see no reason why the "senior" games should be more complex and the WWJ games less so. I am not sure that this has been the trend. It has really just been up to whoever was modded particular games and their preferences. That said, if games are smaller (in village) size, there probably is good reason to retain scope for two games to run at a time. My personal preference is for smaller less complex games anyway so I would rather see more of both types in both threads.

QUOTE]

WWJ was set up to have games with a maximum of 15 players. This rather lends itself to simpler forms of the game.

[Nogrod]

Btw. Farael!
What's the situation with your game?

I've been too long without one...

[JennyHallu]

Yeah!! All this talk of less games is depressing...I haven't played in far too long. I'm having withdrawal symptoms.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Btw. Farael!
What's the situation with your game?

I've been too long without one...

Well, I did not want to interrupt the other talk... and also, we still have only 13 players. If you guys want to start now, let me know so (I'll send the roles tomorrow and start on Tuesday afternoon).

[Diamond18]

13 is enough, let's play! *hops up and down*

[Naria]

Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a 'senior' game have so much trouble with getting people to play.

Looks like Valier's game is ending toDay, so I will be able to join in for this one.

What kind of village is this again? I need to know so I can have an appropriate occupation.

[JennyHallu]

YAY! 14!

It's an elvish village, Naria!

Roles! We want roles!

[Naria]

Hmmmm, Elvish eh. *Think pretty....pretty.* Hmmm....I will grow the most magnificent flowers for all to enjoy. Known around town as Flora the Beautiful!!

So my title will be The grower of magnificent flowers! Not as nice as Flora the Beautiful, but it'll do.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Is it too late to join? *Eats an apple.*

[Naria]

Is it too late to join?

I don't think so. It looks to me like Farael needed two more players in order to start and me and you would be the ones that he needs(well as far as player count goes ). Btw, how was your apple?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Originally Posted by Naria

I don't think so. It looks to me like Farael needed two more players in order to start and me and you would be the ones that he needs(well as far as player count goes ). Btw, how was your apple?

Oh how lovely! I suppose that means I'm in as for the apple, lovely as usual. I really don't know why I stopped eating them... oh wait yeah... thats right... *Eats an apple.*

[Naria]

Ok, great!! Now pick an occupation Sleepy. Keep in mind it is an Elvish village....maybe your apples will inspire you . Hehe, Weirder things have happened!

[Sleepy Ranger]

Originally Posted by Naria

Ok, great!! Now pick an occupation Sleepy. Keep in mind it is an Elvish village....maybe your apples will inspire you . Hehe, Weirder things have happened!

Yes, an occupation, I'm getting forgetful in my old age. I shall be your local, everyday uh... apple-barrel! Yes! 'Tis a noble and wonderful occupation that shall bring me much fame, I shall be play as a barrel of apples or at least a tender of such. *Eats an apple.*

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*cartwheels*

15! Oh beautiful, perfect number! We finally have 15!

WW withdrawal does wierd things to me...

[Naria]

Done and done!! Sleepy, I only would wish to be as "old" as you again !

Farael, if the numbers are ok for you(and if noone wishes to play from Valier's game) it looks like your game is afoot!

[Lhunardawen]

Ack! I do hope you figured out that when I pulled out, I pulled Nilp along with me.

Feel free to look for another Lover, Farael.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Ack! I do hope you figured out that when I pulled out, I pulled Nilp along with me.

No Nilp? Who will be our resident suicidal villager?

Originally Posted by Jenny

Roles! We want roles!

Roll out the roles? Role roll call?

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Celuien

No Nilp? Who will be our resident suicidal villager?

Perhaps you can ask Farael to die by suicide? He didn't live up to his role in XIX, anyway.

[Farael]

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan:Very confused wereWOLF hunter (confused as he's faced with wereorcs rather than werewolves)
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*

*This barrel was made of entwood and thus has a conscience of its own.

Well, we are still in thirteen.... Lhuna, we are through but you shall always have a place in my heart (wish it was as easy to break up with my current girlfriend.... ugh don't get me started)

Tomorrow around 6 PM (give or take a couple hours depending on when my exam is over and what time I get home) I shal PM you your roles, and Day 1 will start on Tuesday. If anyone else wants to join in, feel free to do so up until I post a notice here saying otherwise

By the way, the town's rules:
*We shall try the Shaman role out.... the Shaman chooses whom to dream about, but the dreams go to anyone at random.
*No double-lynches
*No retractable votes (Sorry guys, but I don't like them)
*A ranger
*Two werewolves (Forgot that little word hehehe)

I've decided not to have a Hunter and only two werewolves becasue if not, more than a third of the village would have had some role.... if you want the third werewolf in, it's still debatable. If we get two more people, I'll add a third wolf for sure and perhaps a Hunter.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Farael

Tomorrow around 6 PM

What time zone would that be?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

What time zone would that be?

GMT -6.... 12 AM GMT

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Farael

Lhuna, we are through but you shall always have a place in my heart

I was hoping the statement would elicit only pity...

But I'm content with that "place in [your] heart." Do provide a comfortable couch, though.

Okay, I'm out of here (for the time being).

[Sleepy Ranger]

Originally Posted by Farael

GMT -6.... 12 AM GMT

I'll have to vote early, hope it isn't too much of a bother.

[JennyHallu]

At least this week, I will NEVER be around towards the beginning of the day. Gah! My evenings this week are shot! And I won't be here Easter Sunday. Maybe late at night. Maybe. I doubt it.

And can Shaman dreams be given to the Shaman, or are they distributed randomly to everybody else, but not to the Shaman?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

At least this week, I will NEVER be around towards the beginning of the day. Gah! My evenings this week are shot! And I won't be here Easter Sunday. Maybe late at night. Maybe. I doubt it.

And can Shaman dreams be given to the Shaman, or are they distributed randomly to everybody else, but not to the Shaman?

Oh, they can be given to the Shaman, as they can be given to a Wolf... I'll use the "Random" button in my calculator to make sure it goes to anyone

[Nogrod]

I tried a kind of last recruitement at the "ppuuuurrrffect village" -thread... Let's hope someone will still turn out. But 13 players with only two wolves sounds playable too...

Farael:
Are you opening up a new thread for this one, and what will it be called?

= Farael / Today 3.25 AM GMT
Tomorrow around 6 PM (give or take a couple hours depending on when my exam is over and what time I get home) I shal PM you your roles, and Day 1 will start on Tuesday.

6PM, which time? How should we interpret this? Does the game start straight ahead with the day-phase? Immediately as we get our roles? That's fine by me, but just wanted to know...

[Legolas in spandex]

I was told I was invited to a werewolf game again under active topic. Is this it? Please direct me. I'll gladly play.