TIG XCIII - Betrayal at Henneth Annûn (Game thread)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.

Sweet broccoli Odin, please don't go there.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.

Not that part. The part where you talk about Rune was good. But that was, what, one line? Maybe two? The majority of your post was not about Rune, and that was the part that I found unnerving.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Inzil

So I guess the question would be, "why Sally?", though it seems obvious due to Bom being evil. I was wondering why they went for her and not me or Rune, but I guess the fact that she basically started the ball rolling on Bom did it.

Also, I think, her voting behaviour from Day 1, ie. debating whether to vote Gal or Bom and ending up voting the latter.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Casts some minor suspicion on Shasta, no reason given, and G55.

I don't think it really matters at this point, but the way I read it, he suspected Shasta and defended Gal.

Originally Posted by Rune

I never quite understood Aganzir's vote for Boromir. She plays along with his antics, states that he acts like this all the time and so on. . .

That is actually a good point; and when phrased like that it does look fishy. But like you, I think I'd need to do some rereading in order to decide anything.

[A Little Green]

In response to Agan's response to my points against her:

You conveniently failed to note the post where I stated my main reasons for thinking about voting for her

Ah. My post in question was a summary of the development of the Galwagon, not a full account of everything everyone said with regards to Gal; I only mentioned it when somebody brought up new points, or somebody new joined in the fray, etc. Perhaps I should have stated it clearer. Also, when I called your reason for voting Gal fishy or suspicious or strange or whatever it was, I was talking about that one particular point I had quoted, not the whole (the other arguments therein being ones others had stated too and that looked a little more valid.)

Agan hesitated because she was, especially as the deadline drew nearer, worried she had accidentally poked a gifted. If you don't see why, go read her last posts again. But there's no way to tell who's a real gifted and who's just giving vague hints in order to be saved, and as Gal didn't reveal, I thought she'd be safe to lynch. There's hesitation for you. Convenient, eh?

I still think it could be, as you know you'd say that same thing whether BN or innocent.

I don't like in the least the way Greenie seems to be twisting things. I don't know how obvious my doubts about Gal were or if it even occurred to anybody else, but it seems to me Greenie is intentionally ignoring it.

Yes, it occurred to me that Gal might be Gifted. It also occurred to me that it might have occurred to you. Look, I was not and certainly am not saying for a fact that you are a wolf. I was saying that your actions concerning the Gal lynch would well fit a wolf. There's a difference.

Originally Posted by Agan

Would you be content if I had pursued a strong and misguided suspicion without a backward glance on day 1? Would that make me seem more innocent? I was hesitant because I was by no means convinced of her guilt. She was my best bet so far, but I voted her in order to eliminate someone I'd continue to be suspicious of in the future, rather than to lynch someone I was sure was a wolf.

Hesitation in itself is not fishy. The way you did it was. It might have been genuine for all I know, but it seemed too pronounced, too underlined, to be so. That, and you being one of the orchestrators of the original suspicion of Gal, makes for a fishy combination.

[Pomegranate]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

That is actually a good point; and when phrased like that it does look fishy. But like you, I think I'd need to do some rereading in order to decide anything.

I think it's definitely a point, but I can't see it as too fishy. It didn't seem like Agan was trying to get anyone else to vote for Boro, how I read it is that she's so concentrated on their "dance" (and yes, your rhetoric does make that annoying to read, Boro and Agan) that she didn't have the concentration to go through anyone else. Which I understand, even though I don't see it as highly contributing. However, this message of Greenie's is starting to worry me. Feels like you have something especially against Agan (alliteration, even if not a pronounced but only a written one - the linguist in me jumps with joy ^^). We can't of course be sure about her, but Bom's vote for her would definitely seem to give to her some innocence points. After two days of discussing mainly her I feel like we should somewhat move on, broaden our vision, and I'll be definitely looking at you, dear Greenie, with some concentration.

edit. x/ed with Greenie's second one

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

We can't of course be sure about her, but Bom's vote for her would definitely seem to give to her some innocence points. After two days of discussing mainly her I feel like we should somewhat move on, broaden our vision, and I'll be definitely looking at you, dear Greenie, with some concentration.

I agree that Bom's vote should be a consideration regarding Agan, as I said here.

I really haven't seen where this suspicion of Agan has had a lot of merit thus far.
As Pom says, the focus on Agan should be broadened to include everyone, and especially any who have been quietly slipping along in the shadows....

[A Little Green]

I am not intending to spend toDay concentrating on Agan, I think that would be stupid. I talked about her because I wanted to comment on Rune's point and in the second post because she left me stuff I felt I needed to address before moving on to other subjects. Which, incidentally, is what I intend to do now. I'd like a look at a few less discussed players, probably starting with Glirdy and checking some others too if I have the time. Also, I think a proper look at the voting yesterDay might give us something.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

OK New Plan. . . I am in charge.

I do apologise if I have made a miscalculation and doomed us all.

Anyways the plan is this.

We do not lynch

Me
Boromir
Pommy
Greeny

why? You ask.

Because we are the good guys.

That leaves us with

Aganzir
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote

Even if we get everything wrong, we should be able to kill the BN before we are equal numbers.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Also I can prove that I speak the truth... as I know who Mablung is, who in turn can give us another innocent name.

[A Little Green]

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

Sorry he got deleted when I was doing the calculation (for the sixth time).

[Aganzir]

BOM SUSPECTED
Agan - voted.
Rune - voted.
Shasta - didn't like him at all, once, on day 1. Questioned his logic on day 2.

BOM DEFENDED
Nate - didn't find her swift skill alarming.

THE REST
Lottie - bantered about.
Greenie
Boro
Glirdan
Inzil

I am assuming Rune is innocent, and Inzil too for that matter (see below). I can't say anything about Shasta because it was only a mild suspicion and even though Bom questioned him like once, it's hardly enough to prove anything.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

I feel that with Bom being BN I lost the base from all my suspects so far, more or less. Rune gave Bom the final vote and has been wanting him lynched for quite a while, sally's dead, Bom gave Agan a vote he could've seen as final, Inzil voted for Bom as well

So Pom systematically suspected people who suspected Bom and/or whom his death pretty much exonerated?

I don't think it's impossible a fellow or two voted for Bom, but I find it somewhat unlikely. He wasn't the obvious lynch choice - as I see it, he was lynched for being quiet/unproductive rather than being an obvious BN. In any case, when we look at the votes he got yesterday... Inzil started it off because he wanted to save me (I am touched), and along came sally and Rune who had been making anti-Bom points for a while already. I think we can safely assume Inzil is also innocent because even if he couldn't have suddenly turned against me after everything he'd said about me, he could have voted for Glirdan and Boro instead of starting a bandwagon against a fellow.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I never quite understood Aganzir's vote for Boromir. She plays along with his antics, states that he acts like this all the time and so on. . . I probably need to read through her posts, but right now it seems to me her reaction has been rather odd.

He doesn't act like this all the time. He is up to something at all times, but sometimes he comes across as more genuine than he's now. You could say I found him suspicious from the first but kept testing him till I reached the conclusion I did yesterday. However, I can freely admit I am an extremely subjective player and few things, apart from a revelation of sorts and in all likelihood not even that, could now convince me of his innocence.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?

Lottie didn't say that. She pointed out that your post looked like you were trying to minimise the damage caused by Bom's sudden and unexpected death. Either you're reading too much into it, or you're trying to twist her words. Did anyone else see the classic BN trick Boro just attempted?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, when I called your reason for voting Gal fishy or suspicious or strange or whatever it was, I was talking about that one particular point I had quoted, not the whole (the other arguments therein being ones others had stated too and that looked a little more valid.)

When I made the list, I considered for a while putting in the things I had said a couple of posts earlier, and decided against it and only wrote down the thing that had me wondering about her the most. I thought it might also serve as a little trap for people who'd want to highlight possibly suspicious things I'd said while leaving out bits and pieces, if you know what I mean. The fact that you cited it as the only reason I voted for Gal (later referring to my whole suspicion as "Agan's point against her") is extremely unsettling because what you're saying is basically "Agan voted for Gal without a reason". I should add that while Greenie did a nice job of analysing the day 1 voting, there is precious little we can learn from it because there were no BNs dead, and innocents lynch each other all the time with reasons that prove to be bad in hindsight, especially on day 1s. That kind of vote analysis actually reminds me of a shark swimming into a school of fish.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I still think it could be, as you know you'd say that same thing whether BN or innocent.

And if I did it regardless of my role, why on earth are you using it as a point against me?

Originally Posted by Greenie

Look, I was not and certainly am not saying for a fact that you are a wolf. I was saying that your actions concerning the Gal lynch would well fit a wolf. There's a difference.

The first one would be stating I'm a wolf. The second one is implying I'm a wolf. The first leads to you suspecting, maybe voting for me. The second leads to other people getting a vaguely uneasy feeling of me while you can sit back and watch, and, if I die, avoid getting my blood on your hands.

Hesitation in itself is not fishy. The way you did it was. It might have been genuine for all I know, but it seemed too pronounced, too underlined, to be so. That, and you being one of the orchestrators of the original suspicion of Gal, makes for a fishy combination.

There's nothing I can say to that.

Anyway I'm going to have a look at what people said about Bom (unless someone else managed to do it while I wrote this post).

[Aganzir]

Greenie, I hate you. So much that I want to hug you. Why why why do we always do this?

And Boro, I hate you too! (Except it was fun, but I guess it has to stop now, right?)

I'm just kind of laughing aloud here.

Thank you kind Rune!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

OK New Plan. . . I am in charge.

I do apologise if I have made a miscalculation and doomed us all.

Anyways the plan is this.

We do not lynch

Me
Boromir
Pommy
Greeny

why? You ask.

Because we are the good guys.

That leaves us with

Aganzir
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote

Even if we get everything wrong, we should be able to kill the BN before we are equal numbers.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Also I can prove that I speak the truth... as I know who Mablung is, who in turn can give us another innocent name.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

x/d with Agan

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

But I wouldn't mind hearing your own reasonings for voting G55.

I stated them right before I voted G55 - I thought she was being too intent on changing the subject early on, which ended up drawing attention her way.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

1) Nowhere did I say I believed him innocent. If anything, I have less trust for Boro in these games then I have for you.

2) I agreed with him in thinking this pack is confident and bold. Which is Boro in a nutshell. We would be crazy to fully trust him. And yet, I did not outwardly say that I suspect him. I was pointing out a fact: Boro likes to steer conversations to his own benefit, much like tp, only with less ego. Noggins death on Night 2 is sure to be a conversation starter for numerous reasons, and one that a BN Boro could start and steer in any direction he chooses.

3) I also mentioned Sally in that post, or did you miss that?

One of the more interesting points I found today, and simply put - Glirdan is crazy overdefensive here. For point 1, I never said that you said you "believed him innocent". I said you agreed with him (which you mention in your next point.) Here's what I said -

Originally Posted by Shasta

Eh? I'm not really sure what you're saying here, because it looks like you're agreeing with Boro in one breath and then suspecting him in the next.

- so the fact that you felt like you had to overstate that you don't think Boro is innocent without reason feels incredibly jumpy to me.

For point 2, you may as well have. See here -

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.

You basically say here that Boro and/or Sally "could have" planned the Nog-kill - which implies you have a reason for thinking such. Also, I feel I need to point out that you say you never said you believed Boro to be innocent, and yet you also say you didn't outwardly suspect him, either. These don't really seem compatible - either you believe Boro is innocent, or you suspect him.

For point 3, I'm aware you mentioned Sally. However, you hadn't agreed with Sally in the beginning of the very same post. Which is what caught my eye about Boro.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Shasta is the first to vote Gal. Not sure what the "dismissal" mentioned here is. Clarification please?

The dropping of the subject. I didn't see that G55 had ever responded to it after I mentioned it, so I figured she didn't have a response and was ignoring it, hoping it'd go away.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I am not thrilled with the two Agan votes. One came, seemingly out of the blue (or at least it seemed that way to me) from Boro, and seems to be due to some reasoning of his that the rest of us are not privvy to.

Really? It seems to me he's been suspecting her on and off since the game started. Boro's vote for Agan really isn't that surprising, is it?

Originally Posted by Boro

My focus on Agan yesterday was mostly out of laziness and excessive pride in refusing to back out of a challenging dance.

Boro, you said this yesterday -

Originally Posted by Boro

I realize I'm heading out to a store, and since there's only 2 hours til DL. I doubt it'll be that long of a trip, but don't really want to chance it. So..

++Agan

Thanks for replying dear, pretty much giving me the last assurance I need. I mean, come on, you should know even if I can convince myself you're a BN, it's a hard dilemma I face of voting you or not.

It's a battle of duty vs my heart telling me I love when you're evil and I like watching you in your full wolvish glory. I mean, it may make me a terrible person to say, and I'm certainly rubbish at the tango, but I still love our dances, even if we might be on opposite sides.

Did Bom coming up as a wolf really change your opinion of Agan that drastically?

Originally Posted by Inzil

So I guess the question would be, "why Sally?", though it seems obvious due to Bom being evil. I was wondering why they went for her and not me or Rune, but I guess the fact that she basically started the ball rolling on Bom did it.

That, along with that, like Nog, Sally really hadn't had a chance to do much, seems likely to me as well. Which means we have a pattern, which means we can speculate on who, as wolves, would consistently kill people who leave no trace (and this is where Agan comes in and says "that does us no good, why bother”. )

Originally Posted by Inzil

In retrospect he gave some clues, couching them in jokes.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you there, but why? Bom Numenorean had nothing to gain by hinting at his evilness, from what I can see.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Responds to Shasta, saying Nog didn't leave much to analyze as to why he was killed.

Which makes me want to do it even more, of course. Interestingly enough, Agan said the same thing later in the day.

Originally Posted by Boro

I should have actually listened to sally instead of casting it off as "Bom is being like Bom and let me continue prodding Agan because I'm too lazy to think about anything else."

I don’t like this. Boro has spent the past two days making sure we all know how devious and manipulative he is, and this is the second time today he’s played himself off as being lazy.

Originally Posted by Boro

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.

This is also completely unproductive, Boro my dear.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

Also truth. Hi. Also, forgetting about me, Rune? Ouch.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

x/d with Agan

Wait for Shasta to confirm it? Yes that is rather easy.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

Lying would require guessing Mablung's identity correctly. There can't be three people lying.

And Inzil, if you are a wolf, I'm going to send you explosives in a nice white envelope (unless I can think of something more imaginative). I sincerely hope it's Glirdan and Lottie.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Wait for Shasta to confirm it? Yes that is rather easy.

Oh, don't y'all wait up on my account. [/Southern]

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, as for me, I'd be most comfortable with lynching Glirdan today. Agan is probably second on my list. Inzil and Lottie I need to look at more, but I think Inzil a bit more innocent than Lottie right now.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

For those of us that will perish in our attempt to eradicate evil, it is important to remember that death is not the end.

[Aganzir]

I'd prefer Glirdan or Lottie because I don't want to believe Inzil is a wolf. But it doesn't matter much because we can't really lose the game anymore (I checked Rune's calculations and affirm they're correct).

Anyway is it worth anything if I check what people said about Bom, or would you rather a known innocent did it?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Going to nap now.

++Glirdan

*gives Mablung a hug and wanders off*

[A Little Green]

I had a quick look at Glirdan. The following does not include all his posts, nor are the quotes below necessarily full posts. I only included stuff I judged to be potentially of some importance. Here goes -

GLIRDAN, DAY 1

He starts the Day with banter like everybody else. His next post begins with an apology for not posting more. First actual game-related comment is as follows:

Now, I am not sure what to think concerning Agan and Boro. When I re-read Agan's first post after Boro voiced his initial concer of her, I found nothing overly suspicious in it myself. Actually, being the first to start any real form of discussion, I'd rather like to believe the opposite of Agan. However, with Boro gone for the Day, I would rather leave this and let it settle, at least for toDay, to let him gather his thoughts and deal with whatever happened. (and Boro, take the time you need my friend to deal with whatever happened).

Now, we're in a pickle as one of our most vocal players is out of commission for the time being and there are far too many of us flying under the radar, myself included.

Very diplomatic. Could fault him with that, but I'm willing to give some early Day 1 -allowance here.

Glirdy didn't vote, and explained it, I believe, in the admin thread. Moving on -

DAY 2

Starts his Day with speculating on Nog's death.

I dont know about that one. I'm more inclined to agree with Boro. I mean, with the exception of Nate, we all know how dangerous an innocent/gifted Noggy is to the Wolves. Its already been said: why him? Well, it was a pretty traceless kill for them. Yet the same could be said had it been myself, or Shasta or any of the other quiet ones. I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.

Shasta raised doubts about this one, and it's true he kind of suspects Boro based on Boro's own theory here. Not sure if that points to innocence or guilt, though! Also, I don't like the "for all we know" part, can't explain it really, but it gives me bad vibes.

Now, I hate picking on Newbies....yet something about Nate's first post toDay does not sit well. I'm not sure what it is....maybe it's her wording....maybe it's the over sincerity of having forgotten to vote yesterDay.

The beginning looks a bit insincere, but it might be just that I have a general dislike for whatever precedes a "but" or, in this case, "yet".

Anyways, in my reading I noticed something. Lottie seems very....wish washy I think is the term I am looking for. This could just be me and my tendency of suspecting Lottie.

What's really bothering me is how easily swayed she is by others and its things like that that make me leery. Trying to appease everyone is a tactic seen and used many times before by wolves, or BN's in our case. Now, I will give her credit for sticking to her guns and voting for G55 anyways. Yet she was a part of the reason we lost our Guardian, and if I'm correct, the leading cause. Now, it's quite possible that Lottie is simply a misled innocent and I wouldn't mind hearing a little more from her myself.

Not overly fond of this, either - regardless of that I agree with his point about Lottie's wishy-washiness. The same thing about "buts" and "yets" as in the previous quote. He brings up a rather strong point against Lottie, then counters it with "Now--", then brings up another strongly phrased point against her, then counters that with "Now--". I'd understand that if it was that his overall opinion of Lottie was accordingly undecided. However, the way I read this post, he is clearly more suspicious of her than not. The same post ends with

However, there are others who voted for G55 who need to be looked at it....or in Shasta's case, need to be heard from.

I feel like I'm getting paranoid because this doesn't sit right with me either, it looks opportunistic, but this time I'm pretty sure I'm just seeing things that aren't there.

Lottie defends herself from Glirdy's points, to which he answers as follows:

I wasn't too comfortable with that term [wishy-washiness] myself. And as I said at the end of the post, I give you credit for sticking to G55 and voting for her regardless, or did you miss that bit? I'm still leery about you. However, Zil also brought up an excellent point in your defense: you had though you voted first. Voting first an sticking to your guns as much as you had is way too bold a move for a Wolf, especially this early in the game. Yet you're not entirely off my radar.

It's actually funny, he suspected Lottie for hastily backing off her suspicion when questioned, then proceeds to do more or less the same thing. I'm not sure a BN would do this.

1) Nowhere did I say I believed him innocent. If anything, I have less trust for Boro in these games then I have for you.

2) I agreed with him in thinking this pack is confident and bold. Which is Boro in a nutshell. We would be crazy to fully trust him. And yet, I did not outwardly say that I suspect him. I was pointing out a fact: Boro likes to steer conversations to his own benefit, much like tp, only with less ego. Noggins death on Night 2 is sure to be a conversation starter for numerous reasons, and one that a BN Boro could start and steer in any direction he chooses.

3) I also mentioned Sally in that post, or did you miss that?

My head starts to hurt every time I try to decide what to think about this whole thing. If anyone has any insight into it, be my guest. Then again, I'm not sure whether it's relevant.

In the same post, Glirdan comments on the more general discussion on whether analyzing the Night-kill is important (saying that he thinks it is). He then analyzes Gal and the Galwagon; not going to quote the whole analysis, but here's the ending:

Overall Thoughts

- Lottie seems the least suspicious of he four who voted, having had her suspicions from early on in he Day
- Zil is really starting to stand out to me, having had no real suspicion of her before. His explanation is also rather interesting, what with the "I will not throw away my vote" tactic.
- Rune and Bom's votes for each other caught my eye. Something about it bothers me, what, Im not sure.
- Agan and Shasta bear some watching, but both had reasonable an sound reasons for voting G55
- Sally's vote for Bom also has me concerned. It almost looks like a last minute attempt to save G55

The next post is here quoted in full:

An hour left and two votes cast for Agan, who I am in extreme reluctance to vote for. Her whole tone seems legitimately genuine, especially with her last few posts...on the other hand, that's what a BN Agan would want us to think.

I, like Nate am more inclined to vote for Zil or Sally. Zil's vote at the end of the Day yesterDay just does not sit well. It almost seed strategic in it's placement, securing the death of our Anborn. He gave no reasosns of his own and just sort of latched onto what was previously stated by Agan, Lottie and Shasta. Why not stick to your gut instincts and vote for someone you had really wanted to, even I it had been a "throw away".

Sally's vote also does not sit well. Again, well enough placed to draw attention away from G55. Her submarining is also a growing anxiousness of mine. Yet i've seen sallycakes do this as a Gifted as well, which is why I'm more hesitant to vote for her.

Thinks Agan is innocent, suspects Inzil and Sally. The suspects are easy choices for a wolf, sensible for an innocent, so I'm undecided about those.

Votes Inzil:

++Zil

His vote placement and his agreeing with everything everyone says and his lack of having any true substance that is his own.

I agree about Inzil's vote placement, as well as his contributions to the Galwagon. The rest, though - I believe Inzil is always suspected for slipping by unnoticed and lacking substance because of the way he posts, concentrating more on commenting than eg. crafting theories.

Overall? Glirdy has been more flip-floppy than I recalled, he's certainly been cautious, and the tone of some things he's said strikes me as false; on the other hand, his flip-flop on Lottie looks a bit too complete for a BN. (I, at least, often take pains to appear consistent in my suspicions when a wolf; it's harder to come up with sudden changes of mind than continuous suspicion.)


EDIT: oh dear, x-ed with a host! All the way since my last, I think.

[Glirdan]

Okay, I'm here, did a quick skim through of what's been said. And as much as I would love to defend myself against Shasta and others, I simply don't have the time nor the energy to do so. I'll be back soon after I've done a more thorough read through of the Day.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Greenie, I hate you. So much that I want to hug you. Why why why do we always do this?

Because we're us, darling. It's a tango of another kind, I'd say. Also, I don't think you need this, but I can't resist quoting you back to yourself:

However, I can freely admit I am an extremely subjective player and few things, apart from a revelation of sorts and in all likelihood not even that, could now convince me of his innocence.

Originally Posted by Shasta

*gives Mablung a hug and wanders off*

*gives Damrod a hug*

Honestly, though, I x-post with two people hugging me? <3

[Aganzir]

AGAN

GUILTY
Bom. Chaotic Evil doesn't sit well with defending the Realm of Men from the threat of Mordor.
...
If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes. Namely Bom, Glirdan or sally.

GUILTY
Bom. I know this is way typical but I won't abstain from putting him here just because of it. If you suspect someone, state your reasons please.

I don't like Bom, but then again I never do. Gal still seems like my best bet.

**
Day 2

I'd actually also like to hear more from sally and Bom. I get irritated when people don't post, and want them dead just for that reason, and they may turn out to be gifteds and then I'm embarrassed.

GLIRDAN
Day 2

Rune and Bom's votes for each other caught my eye. Something about it bothers me, what, Im not sure.
...
- Sally's vote for Bom also has me concerned. It almost looks like a last minute attempt to save G55

INZIL

Not that it means anything at this point, but Bom has a habit of doing things like that.

Bom is being a bit more cagey than his usual self, I think, but it could be a time issue. I haven't been here myself toDay as much as I'd like. Like G55, he tends to garner quite a bit of lynching attention as a rule, but even more so. I don't think I'd want to go for him toDay, with the lack of anything else from him to go on.

*vote for Gal* Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.

**
Day 2

I'm hoping to see more activity when I return. Especially some of the more quiet ones like Shasta, Glirdan, and Sally; and I'm interested in what Bom has to say as well.

YesterDay I did put G55 and Bom in somewhat of the same boat. There didn't seem to be a lot of substance, and both do tend to be easy targets. It seems like Bom gets more early votes though as a rule, and it's at the point that I just don't like voting for him Day 1. I agree that it's a habit I should probably get out of, but there it is.
...
I would put Bom and Sally in the same category toDay. Very under the radar and hardly even visible. Could vote for either, if nothing better comes to mind.

Fine.
++Bom
I don't want Agan lynched.

LOTTIE
On day 1, said Bom (and several others) needed to post more so she could read him. I'm not quoting it because it's a list of names separated by *coughs*.

**

I'm not going to analyse these to any depth because it doesn't really serve a purpose, but here's everything we non-known innocents said about Bom. So Lottie and Glirdan barely talk about him, while Inzil and I are semi-suspicious, not the least because he's quiet, but acknowledge he's often an easy lynch.

Anyway, the voting is quite amusing. Basically Lottie voted for Glirdan, Glirdan for Inzil, Inzil for Bom, and Bom for me (who voted for Boro). However you look at it, there's bound to be BN-on-BN.

[A Little Green]

Also, Agan, do you still want me to answer those points you made? I can if you want to, but I think I have more fruitful pursuits too..


EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, I don't think you need this, but I can't resist quoting you back to yourself:

I was expecting him to be the one to reveal, and that I wouldn't have believed.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also, Agan, do you still want me to answer those points you made? I can if you want to, but I think I have more fruitful pursuits too..

No reason to exhaust yourself, darling.

[Boromir88]

Well, that certainly makes the load a bit easier, excellent work Rune. At least I was right on one thing, so far.

Shasta, it wasn't so much Bom's death which had me back off Agan today. I came to a couple realizations, one of which being I was completely lazy yesterday, and also a tad prideful in viewing Agan's post as a challenge...and so in my head I was seeing which on of us would balk first.

As it turns out, I did this morning, because it's entirely too silly to continue the contest. Not because of Bom's death, but because Agan knew all along what I was doing. If she knew I was trying to play the seer, and she is in fact a BN, I have no doubt I'd be on her early kill list, especially with no Anborn.

I mean what would you have me do? I'm an ordo poking along in the complete dark. I can't magically find a wolf, so my only concerns are, find out who's intentions I can trust, don't get any gifteds lynched (hence my regret not being able to vote Day 1, because I would have 100% opposed G55's lynch), and do my best to protect them at night be becoming BN-fodder.

Maybe I've been right about Agan all along, I don't know. I'm considerably less sure, but that doesn't bother me now that not only for certain do I know I can trust Rune, but Shasta and Greenie as well (two people who I would have started suspecting today probably). And I may be haphazardly poking for BNs in the dark, but at least everyone can see now my intentions have all been in the best interest of lynching BNs and protecting the gifteds.

Originally Posted by Agan

Anyway, the voting is quite amusing. Basically Lottie voted for Glirdan, Glirdan for Inzil, Inzil for Bom, and Bom for me (who voted for Boro). However you look at it, there's bound to be BN-on-BN.

Ah, very true, but that's to be expected with this bunch. I'm more inclined to, if I had to vote right now, either Lottie or Zil. Since I don't I'm going to read Shasta's latest suspicions against Glirdan.

[A Little Green]

The two remaining wolves being among Agan, Inzil, Lottie and Glirdan basically means we have a 50/50 chance of getting it right toDay! Now, a few random observations, mainly about the relationships between our fantastic four -

- Inzil and Agan have been buddies pretty much since Day 1; each seems to trust the other. Kudos to them if they're both wolves, or both innocents, for that matter. Also, their conduct, especially regarding the Gal-wagon, is a bit too similar (hesitation between Gal and Bom followed by ciritically placed vote for Gal). However, that vote placement and the wavering before it still looks fishy, especially now that we know Bom was a BN. So I'd hazard a guess at one of these two being a baddie.

- Agan's reaction to Rune's reveal looked quite genuine to me; on the other hand, I'm still somewhat suspicious of her dealings with the Gal-wagon.

- Glirdan suspects Lottie and backs off when she defends herself (a bit similarly to Lottie momentarily backing off Gal when told that her point was almost word-to-word like Agan's). If that was wolf-on-wolf, it was pretty lame.

- Agan and Lottie agreed quite a lot on Day 1, didn't they? At least about Gal, at any rate. They also accidentally posted the same point in more or less the same words. Doesn't really say anything about whether or not they are in it together.

- Glirdan voted Inzil on Day 2; there wasn't much of a danger of him getting lynched though, not with the suspicion on both Agan and Bom running rather high. Possible wolf-on-wolf, possibly not. Can't recall anything Inzil has said about Glirdy.

- Inzil's relationship with Lottie? Agan's with Glirdan?


EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Boro

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And Inzil, if you are a wolf, I'm going to send you explosives in a nice white envelope (unless I can think of something more imaginative). I sincerely hope it's Glirdan and Lottie.

If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball.

x/d with Boro and Greenie

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Inzil

If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball.

And if you two are wolves together, I'm going to mail both of you explosive snowballs. Seriously.

Really, though, the excessive trust between these two is weird. But the problem is, it's weird whether it's wolf-on-wolf, wolf-on-innocent, or innocent-on-innocent.

[Aganzir]

Boro, you're a sweetheart. Your post made me smile, besides it's the most genuine-looking thing you've posted during this entire game.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

- Inzil and Agan have been buddies pretty much since Day 1; each seems to trust the other. Kudos to them if they're both wolves, or both innocents, for that matter.

Speaking of which, there's a nagging doubt I've had for a day or two: if we're both innocent, why are we still alive? I would have expected the wolves to think one of us was the seer, or that we were Mablung and Damrod in the very least.
I just don't want to believe it because I don't like to think he fooled me so well.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball.

That almost makes me wish I was a BN.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

And if you two are wolves together, I'm going to mail both of you explosive snowballs. Seriously.

Really, though, the excessive trust between these two is weird. But the problem is, it's weird whether it's wolf-on-wolf, wolf-on-innocent, or innocent-on-innocent.

It would be perfect if we were. So much fun. I think I'll have to try this with a fellow next time I'm a wolf.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Boro, you're a sweetheart. Your post made me smile, besides it's the most genuine-looking thing you've posted during this entire game.

Hehe thank you kindly.

Speaking of which, there's a nagging doubt I've had for a day or two: if we're both innocent, why are we still alive? I would have expected the wolves to think one of us was the seer, or that we were Mablung and Damrod in the very least.
I just don't want to believe it because I don't like to think he fooled me so well.

And seriously that was my thought like that last 2 days. Huh, Agan said if I continue to pursue lynching her she would convince everyone she's innocent...does that mean she's a gifted? The seer didn't make sense, because I don't think you'd handle our...confrontation...like you did. So, then it's like, well Mablung or Damrod makes sense, considering how trusty she is with Inzil and vice versa.

I mean it's unlike my declaration of trusting Rune today, because that was based off how his actions over Bom's lynching. But yours and Inzil's seems purely based on...well I don't know what. It suggests either M & D, which is not possible. Or BN & BN but that also seems, as Greenie said...too weird.

[A Little Green]

OK, tried to look into Inzil's relationship with Lottie, well, turns out there really isn't one. Lottie hardly talks about inzil at all, which looks fishy. Inzil mentions her on several occasions, which are related here; including, also, a few interactions with Glirdy, Agan and Bom.

Lottie seems innocuous, and I can't really fault her for the G55 suspicion, though as I said a G55 lynch could be a worthy BN (Beastly Nosebag) endeavour.

Fluffy.

Darn it.

++G55

Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.

I think this vote has been discussed enough to last a couple of lifetimes, but I'd have felt stupid not including it.

Also, Lottie's vote for G55 wasn't the first, that was Shasta's. But Lottie crossed with Shasta so she thought she was making the first vote there.
Now, starting a bandwagon isn't necessarily a terrible risk for baddies, but I thought Lottie's case was sound enough by Day One standards.

From Day 2; the way I read it, it's a slight defence of Lottie.

I would put Bom and Sally in the same category toDay. Very under the radar and hardly even visible. Could vote for either, if nothing better comes to mind.

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the second time he considers voting Bom.

I already said why I didn't go for Sally. I dislike wasting a vote.

As for latching on to others' words, what exactly are you doing with Pom's?

This one is a response to Glirdy; a bit too edgy for wolf-on-wolf maybe, too eager to accuse to be a simple answer to a question.

Fine.

++Bom

I don't want Agan lynched.

Now this is actually a really interesting piece. The question is, would an evil Inzil have bussed Bom? It was a risky move, to be sure, but it was also the first vote for Bom. Might have been that Inzil didn't think Bom was in much of a danger - or else, thought he was in such a danger that busing him in order to look better himself looked a viable option. Furthermore, that he did so to save Agan looks downright crazy if he's a wolf and Agan is not - but then, so would busing one fellow to save another... In short, I had almost made up my mind that Inzil is probably a BN but this last one made me reconsider. Thoughts, anyone?

Another thing. Agan, since you're around, care to elaborate? Why are you so sure Inzil is innocent? (Inzil, if you're around, same question about Agan.)


EDIT: x-ed with Boro

[A Little Green]

That said, I need to go to sleep soon, I'm pretty much exhausted and have a long day tomorrow! I've no idea who to vote, probably not Agan, but if she is innocent then I'd hazard a guess at Inzil being a wolf, which doesn't make sense either, so my brain kind of hurts. Might go for Glirdy or Lottie after all.

[Loslote]

Thank you muchly, Rune dear - if I'd seen this half an hour earlier, I could've caught the shopping shuttle and gone to buy more yoghurt after all! Ah, well, yoghurt is an acceptable sacrifice for basically winning the game.

++Glirdan

Just to get that over with...I suspect Glirdan - ridiculously more than Agan (who I've thought of as one of the more innocent-sounding players for pretty much the whole game) or Zil (who I haven't really thought of at all, and is probably the other wolf, just by process of elimination) - and obviously know that I am not myself the evil type.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am sorry I have been lazy. Instead of analysing I had a snack, it tasted good (I also watched a cooking show).

Personally I don't really care who we vote for today.

I also thought that Aganzir's response seemed genuine, which was a bit off putting, as my original plan had been to join forces with Boromir and get her killed.

Inziladun is the one I have been the most suspicious about, but one has to remember that Glirdan and Loslote are the people I have paid the least attention to in this game.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Rune

Personally I don't really care who we vote for today.

I also thought that Aganzir's response seemed genuine, which was a bit off putting, as my original plan had been to join forces with Boromir and get her killed.

Inziladun is the one I have been the most suspicious about, but one has to remember that Glirdan and Loslote are the people I have paid the least attention to in this game.

I would've been quite ready to proclaim Inzil as a wolf, but his Bom vote made me reconsider his case.

Lottie makes my head hurt by voting Glirdan; I'd have kind of hoped for the two of them to be BNs together (so that I wouldn't have to find a solution to the Agan-Inzil-problem); they still could be, Lottie might attempt to bus Glirdan in order to survive herself. Still, she seemed a bit too genuinely happy about the news for me to suspect her that much..

So my current guess would probably be that the last two are Glirdan and Inzil. Not willing to bet on that, though!