WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[wilwarin538]

Uh. *head desk* I'm falling asleep here and no one else looks bad to me. So I have to go with her, even though my reasons are rather skimpy:

++ Blind Guardian

*goes bed time*

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

As for who to vote for. No idea right now. Maybe Mac, since the Boro-Zeus thing makes no sense as a Lover hint. But that's kind of slim.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, dear. What Mac said about Boro leaving a Lover hint does make sense (even though it took me fooorever to get). I'm still pretty convinced it was innocent banter, but it does make sense.

I'm also not stoked on this suspicion of Steve, for the same reasons as I wasn't stoked on suspecting Boro and Nerwen for what could very well be innocent Day 1 banter.

People I won't be voting for toDay:
Boro
Nerwen
Steve
(All for reasons previously stated.)
Shasta - I don't vote for people who don't appear. At least not Day 1.

Who I probably will be voting for toDay unless something better comes up within the next hour or so:
Blind Guardian - don't be posting that you want people to provide you with substance and then don't do anything to spark discussion.

EDIT: xed since the wilwa post I quoted. And bollox, that now looks suspiciously like bandwagoning.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also, she made those comments about Zeus' alliances trying to get forward a perception of Zeus not willing to be on the good-side when things were in doubt in the general discussion - so encouraging the other interpretation.

No, I mentioned it because I thought it was important. You would rather we simply looked the other way and ignored the possibility of the Lovers working against the village?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also her reactions when she came back - she made a short comment kind of downplaying the "hint" and never came back to that but instead started more or less a crusade on Mac - which was probably a good idea as there could have been (there could be) some support for it. But I do think an innocent would have behaved differently - not just picking up one other to go for but tried to defend herself more, or given a few other possibilities instead of her.

If I had defended myself more you'd now be calling me "defensive" right now, Nogrod. Besides, what was there to say? I tried to adapt an idiom to the setting, just as we'll say "What the Utumno?" in an M-e based game. Either you accept that or you don't. And I didn't go on a "crusade" against Mac, I pointed out some things he'd done that I thought needed explaining. Again, would you prefer I hadn't?

EDIT:X'd since Nogrod's vote-post.

[Blind Guardian]

I'M HERE! I DONT WHAT TO SAY, NOR DO I HAVE ANY CLUE OF WHATS GOING ON! WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO POST? A WHOLE BUNCH OF NONESENCE!? THAT'S WHAT GOT ME KILLED LAST TIME!! I can't win!

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by autume98

I was throwing that out as a possibility. I thought it might be a little too obvious on Mac's part which is why I asked for other's opinions.

Too obvious? No, I don't think so. Quite the opposite. Unless you mean something more specific than just the fact that Mac talked about Boro's potential hint (which Wilwa, Nerwen, Phantom, Nogrod, etc. etc. talked about before Mac, for that matter - are they all lovers, too?)

Originally Posted by Autume

I didn't realize I had dismissed the idea the that Boro was hinting. I didn't really comment on it if that's what you mean. Since it's been brought up though I could see that yes it could be a hint coming from Boro. Yet I'm not convinced at all. I am pretty much on the fence with this one.

Well, saying that calling it a lover hint amounts to making a lover hint oneself is essentially dismissing it, unless you imagine that a lover-Mac would try to hint by outing what would essentially be an ally for possible lynching.

[Blind Guardian]

Kill me I just want to play a game and last more then one day

[Nogrod]

Just going to bed while left the PC open... and I realised I wanted to see the tally. So why not send it to you as well? I think it bears watching...

Foley -> Eonwë
Greenie -> Macalaure
Kath -> Blind Guardian
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> Blind Guardian 2
Nienna -> Eonwë 2
Sally -> Blind Guardian 3
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> Blind Guardian 4

Those with votes have their highest vote bolded...

I really think Wilwa's last one looks suspicious - and Sally's looks like a throwaway...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I'M HERE! I DONT WHAT TO SAY, NOR DO I HAVE ANY CLUE OF WHATS GOING ON! WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO POST? A WHOLE BUNCH OF NONESENCE!? THAT'S WHAT GOT ME KILLED LAST TIME!! I can't win!

Blind, it's actually just the same thing that got you lynched last game: you're obviously parroting other people, and forming no opinions of your own. Last game you copy-pasted someone else's suspicion-list; this time you didn't even try to hide the fact that you were just "suspecting" people because other people suspected them. I mean, you weren't even sure what I was supposed to have done, were you?

No, I'm not going to vote for you, unless I need to do so to save myself, or you do something really suspicious. At the moment you look to me more like an innocent who's made herself a target, again.

EDIT: X'd since BG at #204.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Before I forget:

++BG

[Blind Guardian]

But what else can I do? I'm just like that

[Blind Guardian]

This is a bandwagon again. Last time you lost your seer. THINK PEOPLE!

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Too obvious? No, I don't think so. Quite the opposite. Unless you mean something more specific than just the fact that Mac talked about Boro's potential hint (which Wilwa, Nerwen, Phantom, Nogrod, etc. etc. talked about before Mac, for that matter - are they all lovers, too?)

At this time I don't think the others are lovers. Mac's last line just jumped out at me making me think that maybe he was trying to hint that he is a lover as seen below.

Originally Posted by Macalure

Hephaistos, not Ares. In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". Since we only have three, that's not a bad hint.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, saying that calling it a lover hint amounts to making a lover hint oneself is essentially dismissing it, unless you imagine that a lover-Mac would try to hint by outing what would essentially be an ally for possible lynching.

Edit: x-ed since #206
I guess I didn't see it as dismissing it. But I addressed it in an earlier post so I won't do so here.

At this time Mac is most suspicous in my book.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I'M HERE! I DONT WHAT TO SAY, NOR DO I HAVE ANY CLUE OF WHATS GOING ON! WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO POST? A WHOLE BUNCH OF NONESENCE!? THAT'S WHAT GOT ME KILLED LAST TIME!! I can't win!

I'm sorry; it must be very frustrating. If you don't understand well enough to post anything but nonsense, though, and you really can't figure it out, where's the fun in that?
I don't like to see someone lynched for simply not catching on, but I can also understand why it happens. If you can't keep up you just end up as a question mark in everyone's mind, with nothing to go on either for or against you - and that's not how the game works.

Originally Posted by BG

But what else can I do? I'm just like that

Then, and don't take this the wrong way, why do you want to play WW at all? If you don't want to analyze and debate and so on, why bother? That's what it's all about.

I'm not going to vote BG because, well, it seems a little harsh at this point. The point about not participating has been made, and I don't see her as especially wolfish. I also don't see much purpose in voting for Steve: he hasn't had a chance to explain his "hint", and, if it was, he's on our side for now and we'll know when he isn't. Instead, I'm just going to do something that really should be done more often on day Ones everywhere:

++the phantom

For being the phantom.

Yeah. That felt good.

[Nogrod]

And a fast answer to Nerwen...

I did read your post about Zeus differently, like trying to persuade whoever played Zeus to think he would not win without Hera (and thus without the wolves).

And I would not have called you defensive (or over-defensive) if you'd tried to talk yourself out from that Hades stuff - which if you're innocent would be something you'd probably really have tried to speak yourself out from (and really the lovers need so badly to connect to each other in this game and you're one of the only ones who made any that kind of reference!).

But your reaction was an attack on one person. So trying to persuade people to lynch one person other than you instead of an innocent's reaction of trying to prove your innocense or giving us the whole list of your suspicions lynching one of which would be better. The wolves like to single out one they'd rather get rid off - the one they calculate is the possible one. It would require so much work to come up with many suspicions there would be some grounds for suspecting for someone who knows who the innocents are?

So really Nerwen, I do suspect you.

[Macalaure]

6 pages on Day1... and there's still two hours to go... I needs me a list.

Probably innocent
Rikae (argumentative plus defending me when I'm misunderstood, that's innocent-Rikae)

Fine with me
Kath (hasn't said much, but what she said I liked - defending me is the way to my heart )
Folwren (couldn't say anything bad about her)
Lalaith (simply no alarms)

Fine with me at the moment, but still wary
Wilwa (talks about roles too much, but since she helped planning, that's ok for now. Don't like her vote, though... really bad)
Nogrod (went on about Eonwe too much and followed Greenie with her suspicions of me, but otherwise fine, especially his vote)
Phantom (nothing bad to report yet, but you never know with him)

No clear opinion, but no alarms
BG (really don't get those votes, she's being herself perfectly)
Eonwe (I don't buy the cursed theory. If he is the cursed, he's aligned with good at this point and should behave that way. I don't think he would bend the rules like that)
Shasta
Sally

Somewhat suspicious
Lottie (vague bad feeling again)
Nienna (had a bad feeling about all her posts so far. Also: BG-voter)
Greenie (the nagging Persephone-suspicion persists since it fits so well)
Keepandir (just the vote. Annoyance might be cover for convenience)

High on my list, but not an aim toDay
Boro (I still think he made a hint, but I'll let it rest for now - don't come complaining to me when you feel his or his lover's fangs in your neck)

Baddie, baddie, bad, bad
Inzil (vague bad feeling from the beginning on; don't like the way he went after me; BG-voter)
Nerwen (I would have given her the benefit of the doubt with the hint-thing, but her behaviour around it now is suspicious. She dismissed it very casually and went after me instead, and now that Nogrod addressed it, she seemed very tense)
Autume (passive, going along with the crowd / after easy victims -type feeling, which, to her defense, is not out of character for her)

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

But what else can I do? I'm just like that

You'll just have to learn better, or this will keep happening.

Meanwhile, I'd like to note that four of the five people who have voted BG played in the last game, when she got lynched in much the same way, and turned out to be the Seer.

Sure, she also played much like this as a wolf in her first game, but still... at the moment, it just seems like this is how she plays, whatever her role.

EDIT:X'd since BG at #210.

[Macalaure]

Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that.

[Nogrod]

Foley -> Eonwë
Greenie -> Macalaure
Kath -> Blind Guardian
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> Blind Guardian 2
Nienna -> Eonwë 2
Sally -> Blind Guardian 3
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> Blind Guardian 4
Mira of Dol Guldur -> Blind Guardian 5
Rikae -> the phantom

Mira, you're really making yourself to flash out here as well!

[Macalaure]

Foley -> Eonwe
Greenie -> Mac
Kath -> BG
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> BG (2)
Nienna -> Eonwe (2)
Sally -> BG (3)
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> BG (4)
Keeper -> BG (5)
Rikae -> phantom

Bad votes: Inzil, Nienna, Wilwa, Keeper for joining/fueling pointless bandwaggons, Rikae for throwing away her vote.

[Blind Guardian]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm sorry; it must be very frustrating. If you don't understand well enough to post anything but nonsense, though, and you really can't figure it out, where's the fun in that?
I don't like to see someone lynched for simply not catching on, but I can also understand why it happens. If you can't keep up you just end up as a question mark in everyone's mind, with nothing to go on either for or against you - and that's not how the game works.

I try. I didn't just copy and paste like what someone said, it just came out the same. I want to play, I want to get past day one!

[the phantom]

I am back and working on catching up with all the action...

[Blind Guardian]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that.

Me! Me me me me!!!

[Rikae]

Hm, so Tum, do you mean the "it's frustrating to be alone with it" bit or the "I am a lover" bit? Or something else?

Originally Posted by Mac

argumentative plus defending me when I'm misunderstood, that's innocent-Rikae

Silly. I always defend you - even when we're not on the same side. You know that.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And I would not have called you defensive (or over-defensive) if you'd tried to talk yourself out from that Hades stuff - which if you're innocent would be something you'd probably really have tried to speak yourself out from

Once again: there's nothing for me to say. Either you believe me that it was just banter, or you don't. Repeating it over and over won't convince you, will it?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But your reaction was an attack on one person. So trying to persuade people to lynch one person other than you instead of an innocent's reaction of trying to prove your innocense or giving us the whole list of your suspicions lynching one of which would be better.

Now you're just attributing motives to me. That wasn't a "reaction". I pointed out some things Mac did because I thought they were suspicious. Besides, when have you ever seen me make a suspicion-list?

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that.

I am definitely with you on this one. I also know that we definitely see each other as enemies right now. As much as I have my suspicions about you I'm not sure I'm willing to vote for you just yet. Maybe it's because I feel the same way about the BG votes. It'd be an easy lynch and I don't agree with that.

Edit: x-ed with BG, Rikae, and Nerwen

[Rikae]

Mac, I didn't throw away my vote. A vote for Phantom is always a vote well spent.

[Macalaure]

Autume, who, if not BG or me, would you like to lynch then, and why?

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hm, so Tum, do you mean the "it's frustrating to be alone with it" bit or the "I am a lover" bit? Or something else?

It was this line:

Originally Posted by Mac

Since we only have three, that's not a bad hint.

Edit: Changed coding

[Rikae]

Ok, in that case... that makes no sense at all.

[autume98]

I know there are rules about editing posts. So quick question, anyone here know if I can fix the quote since it shows: [quote ] [ /quote] I can't believe I forgot to preview my post before I hit Submit Reply.

Thanks in advance!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Raise your hand if you'd like to lynch somebody suspicious instead of BG.

Yes, she might not be very helpful, but that's not a good reason to lynch and you know that.

*raises hand*

Personally, I'd like to see Mac or Tum, but that doesn't look very likely. I do not like this BeiGei bandwagon. It's an easy, almost mindless vote.

EDIT: xed with Tum - if you mark that you changed coding, no one will be mad. Happens to all of us.

[Rikae]

I think that's probably fine, just note it in the "reason for editing" box.

EDIT: X'd with Lottie.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Holy cow. I apologize for my absence so far - I had no idea this was starting today. I'll do my best to read the last six pages. Deadline's in two hours, right?

[Loslote]

Hey, Shasta's here! Yep. Better hurry up and vote for Mac or Tum.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Bad votes: Inzil, Nienna, Wilwa, Keeper for joining/fueling pointless bandwaggons, Rikae for throwing away her vote.

Just for the record, I had decided my vote before I saw the rest of the votes. I wasn't going to change what I had been thinking for hours because it might look like I joined a bandwagon. Fairly certain my edit said something to that effect when I mentioned i x'ed with a whole ton of people. Side effect of having an awful attention span and leaving half completed windows open for extended periods of time. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mac, I didn't throw away my vote. A vote for Phantom is always a vote well spent.

Heh, agreed.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Autume, who, if not BG or me, would you like to lynch then, and why?

As I was looking at my list I am wondering about wilwa and her post for BG.

I am also not sure about Boro. He sure did stir up the pot, but I'm not sure that he's a wolf.

Looking at my list of players no one is jumping out at me screaming wolf. I'm wondering if they are one of the quiet ones.

You mentioned Zil. Is there something that makes you suspect him or you just suspect him on principle?

Edit: x-ed with up to #231

[Macalaure]

Autume: this might irk you now - or a few others - but I'll vote Nerwen. I suspect her, and you don't mention her. Since I don't really trust you, that makes perfect sense to me.

++Nerwen

[Nogrod]

I seem to be trapped in a vicious circle... going to have a cigarette, going to brush my teeth... while leaving the computer on and just looking after every thing done if there is anything that is interesting... and of course there is... Gah!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Once again: there's nothing for me to say. Either you believe me that it was just banter, or you don't. Repeating it over and over won't convince you, will it?

No. You're right. But if you gave it even an effort, if you protested even a bit more I could see the innocent frustration in there. Now I only see the calculated avoidance of the thing once you have stated your position once - as to not look too over-defensive... I do not claim to know how you think but I've been wolf many times enough to notice certain kind of behaviours that suggest to me the way I myself act in certain situations...

Now you're just attributing motives to me. That wasn't a "reaction". I pointed out some things Mac did because I thought they were suspicious. Besides, when have you ever seen me make a suspicion-list?

I was not calling for a list. I was just thinking that if you were an innocent, you probably had some ideas as to who the wolves are or anyway who were suspicious to you - I know all are not cabable of that but I do know you are - but you just jumped on one, like a wolf would do seeing things were going badly. As that is the easiest way, trying to find another scapegoat rather than giving multiple choices which are more insecure others might go for... or are right in the beginning (which is the concern an innocent has).

Also you seem to be avoiding some of the questions I made... like the fact that some people (especially Hades!) really need to try to establish a connection and you were one of the only ones a trial for that could be read out from. Another one being Eonwë, our most likely cursed villager. And really I don't buy your explanation of trying to think for the good of the village while lovers would play over the good of the village when it was a question of Zeus' alliance after Hera's death. And don't say you didn't intend that as we were clearly talking about the innocent-lover's alignment after the death of his/her mate.

So you're my suspicion number one, still.


On another note. I will be looking very closely on the BG -voters tomorrow if alive and she turns out innocent. I think I have never played with her, but this looks like a "collective avoiding the responsibility" and / or "trying to get through where the fence is the lowest", really. It's clear she has a thing or two to learn, but to jump on her that way is just... bad, well looking guilty trying to find an easy vote.

Especially for Wilwa - who should know better and who tried to talk on behalf of Nerwenas well...


x'd with a few, again...

[Blind Guardian]

Inzil

because he started this bandwagon and I'm mad.

[the phantom]

(Oh my goodness, you guys posted a lot while I was gone. I'm still catching up, so pardon me if this post seems a bit behind and silly, as it's as far as I've advanced in the discussions.)

***************************

Regarding the Boro opening post incident-

Originally Posted by Rikae

but Phantom seems to have given it some thought before posting what he did, so I'd be interested in hearing what his intentions were.

I thought it was possible he was trying several things, and with my comment to him I hoped to engage him in dicussion and see if I could guess which based on his reaction. The thing that stood out to me wasn't the Zeus comment so much as his constant reference to the Seer. Given simple odds I knew it was unlikely, but- I had a brainwave that perhaps he was talking about the Seer so much the WWs would try to kill him (thinking he was a Seer "hiding in the open" as they say), when in fact he was the Cursed and wished to be turned!

And so I worded my comments to him rather vaguely, knowing that if he was in fact the Cursed he would know precisely how to interpret my comment and also he would assume that I was on his side given the fact that I had "spotted" what he was up to and hadn't sounded the alarm. And so if he were to hint back to me that I was on the right track, I would turn on him and blow the whistle.

I realize it sounds like a lot of effort for something that is such a slim possibility, but the idea of the cursed going over to the other side was just too large of a threat to sit by and not try something, just to be certain.

And indeed, I guess he didn't intend anything at all if we are to believe his quote from earlier today-

Originally Posted by Boro

As for my Zeus remarks, I legit figured since he is my ultimate God of Gods (and sans the Disney version reviled the wench Hera) he was a defacto good guy. Wasn't thinking that indepth at 5:30 AM when I have important deliveries to run.

Moving on now, I'm not sure about Nog's idea about making something of the responses to Boro, as at that stage I personally believe everyone was just itching to have something real to discuss- mechanics and hammering out rules etc. Stretching their legs. Had a Day 2 comment been over-analyzed and jumped on I'd be more likely to agree.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Re: Mac's comment about Nerwen - I thought that perhaps he was trying to confuse Persephone into picking Nerwen, who I doubted (and figured Mac doubted, since he didn't try to get her lynched) was actually Hades. I didn't really think a wolf would have made the comment Nerwen did, as it seemed too risky.

This was exactly what I thought upon viewing Mac's comment and Nerwen's comment before it, which is why for the time being Mac and Nerwen are firmly in my innocent column.

(back to reading, on page 5 now)