WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[wilwarin538]

The sun rose on our little village to reveal a beautiful morning. Despite the fact that it was lovely out, the villagers that gathered in the town square felt a cold chill running down their spines. They were all grateful to be alive, but fearful of who would be missing. After a quick tally it became clear that Lommy was the one not among them.

The villagers gathered close together and walked solemnly to her little house, it was quite close to the town square so they didn’t have to go very far. It was small, but lovely, with a very large willow tree in the front lawn and many various flowers all about it. A curvy path led up to the small red door, well what used to be a small red door. Someone had smashed through the door and crumpled it to pieces.

The villagers stepped over the threshold one by one into the small entrance. To the left was a living room and to the right was a narrow staircase. Well, what used to be the narrow staircase. It had been trampled on quite fiercely and was all in pieces.

“Something quite large must have come through here.” Nerwen said, gaping at the gaps in the little house.

“Well, this happened at Night, so she must be in her bedroom.” Fea pointed out.

“Yes, well how do we get to it, her bedroom was up there.” Boro said, pointing to the top of the used-to-be-stairs.

“I have some rope back at my shop.” McCaber suggested helpfully, turning to leave.

“No need.” Inziladun called as he re-entered the house, carrying a large ladder. “Lommy used to love playing her music on the roof of her house; she used this to get up there.”

One by one they climbed the ladder up to the second floor of the house, Lommy’s bedroom was the first door on the right. They entered slowly.

It was not a pleasant sight that beheld them. Lommy was strewn all about the room. Well, what used to be Lommy anyway. Her instruments were also destroyed, in pieces everywhere. Nothing about it was out of the ordinary, for that had been what she was. Ordinary.

“It looks like she was mauled, by something quite large.” Nerwen said, elaborating on the statement she had previously made.

“Indeed.” A few agreed, nodding. Then, becoming too disgusted to bear it any longer, the villagers left and stepped back down the ladder and out of the house.

Eomer was left behind again, lowering his shovel as he gazed around the room. “How.......what......but......so many......uh, I need a new job.” He grumbled as he got to work.

The villagers regrouped in the town square and as they began to discuss Eomer rejoined them. They knew that the only way to stop the deaths would be to catch the perpetrators, and sadly that would result in more deaths.


The dead:
Nienna - bookkeeper - hung Day 1 - ordinary villager
Lommy – minstrel – mauled Night 2 – ordinary villager

The living:
Nerwen - bookmaker
Eomer - gravedigger
Aganzir - jailor, arena and lions included
Sally - some poor serving girl who has no money to buy sweets
McCaber - humble shopkeeper
Izzy - baker
Mira - apothocary
Gaurcrist - blacksmith
Shasta - fletcher
Gwath - drunk vagrant
Boro88 - the shruberrer
Kath - restaurant owner
Inziladun - shruberrer's apprentice
Fea - Storyteller
Greenie - school teacher
Lari - fortune teller
Mith - herbalist
the phantom - the crazy book liberator

Day 1 is now. You may discuss dear village. I need names from all those who need to give me them.

[Boromir88]

Interesting choice, Lommy definitely posted a lot...the baddies might have thought she was gifted? The keeper of the looking glass?

Also, this type of kill might show we don't have baddies who kill off the silent. Time to go through Lommy's posts.

I guess I should say I am suspicious of (pretty much in the correct order)...

Mith
Agan
the phantom
Gwath

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What is it with you guys and killing Nienna while I'm asleep?

While I will happily admit that it makes my playing life much easier having Mira and Lari in England and Nienna dead, I still can't figure out why y'all keep killing her on Day Ones.

Is it a silent bow to my superiority? (Sorry, Nienna, don't hurt me, just kidding, I love you, please don't stab me in my sleep.)

And it's always after I go to bed. There's always somebody worthy of a good lynching on the chopping block, and then I wake up and Nienna was killed instead. What is this about? Someone please enlighten me.

Do I just know her so much better than everybody else, and therefore trust her logic and Day One statements much more?

Don't mind me, I'm just bothered that I haven't yet figured out a way to make Day Ones useful while they're happening.

[Inziladun]

Ach. Not a good start. I feel bad about Nienna. I didn't have a really strong case against her, but it was the best decision I could come up with. Maybe I should have gone with my number two choice, but it could have been worse, I guess. At least I didn't participate in the lynching of the Wielder or Fairy GM, and we can still count on their help.
Lommy was pretty visible, and she is obviously a respected player, so maybe that was why they singled her out.
Let's see what others have to say today. I wonder if Gaurcrist and some others who have been almost as scarce as he will rear their heads.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

“Something quite large must have come through here.” Nerwen said, gaping at the gaps in the little house.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

It looks like she was mauled, by something quite large.” Nerwen said, elaborating on the statement she had previously made.

I may as well reveal all now. I'm really... the Village Captain Obvious.

Well, our Moddess appears to think so, anyway.

Okay... I'm going to look through Lommy's posts now. I know Boro said he will, but a second look can't hurt.

Will I find anything? (2-1)

EDIT: X'd since Boro.

[Nerwen]

Oh– while I'm still here, what's with this weird comment?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh hell...

++Nienna

This is going to end horribly, I can tell.

???And you still voted her?

[A Little Green]

I'm here. Well I don't like yesterDay's voting, I'll go now and read through it once again to see what exactly bothered me in there. At least the lynching of Nienna I didn't like at all. Was there any reason other than that she voted Fea rather jokingly? Her vote didn't look that good to me either but it's still quite a vague justification for a lynch...

[McCaber]

Well, I will say that as far as Day1 voting goes, it wasn't too bad. I got plenty of material from the votes, especially the early ones.

For the record, what Lommy thought about people is recorded here, but I don't think we'll get too much out of it. At this point, the wolves probably just want to cause confusion.

I will agree that Nienna was not the best candidate, but I thought she was a better choice than Boro.

So yeah. I'll be back in a few hours to see if anything interesting has happened.

[Boromir88]

Sorry, I started gawking and got distracted. The Lommy bit will come up soon, but first...

???And you still voted her? ~Nerwen

I don't like last second random bandwagons, especially in a game with this many roles. Who knows who is what and who is attempting what.

I don't want to be lynched, that's what I know, and you don't want me to be lynched...whether you want to believe that or not that's your choice. For me, I had two options, Shasta or Nienna, Shasta who I pretty much called innocent and believed his plea, or Nienna who I formed no opinion of whatsoever. I decided to take a chance with the latter, even though Shasta might have ended up being a less dangerous pick...if he is an ordo.

What's interesting though about the Lommy choice, is they were not likely looking for little red cap. If Shasta is an ordo, and therefor is a chance of him being LRC, they might have wanted to try and pick up the extra player.

I'm here. Well I don't like yesterDay's voting, I'll go now and read through it once again to see what exactly bothered me in there. At least the lynching of Nienna I didn't like at all.~Greenie

I did it to save me, it's that simple. And I didn't realize I gave you such a headache when playing, my craziness is meant to amuse, if I knew I was being a real pain I would have stopped along time ago. You all need to make me aware of this stuff!

[A Little Green]

So. The Nienna-voters were Eomer, Inziladun, Lommie, Boro and McCaber. I'm basically looking at these people because the whole thing was a strange bandwagon risen from quite a little thing in the end and I want to see if any of the people involved look like baddies jumping on an easy bandwagon.

Eomer was the first to vote Nienna.

Originally Posted by Eomer

I may retract, depending on how the day progresses. However, her vote smacks of surviving Day One without leaving any trail. Also, if I go ahead and vote now it might lead to more discussion, which is always useful.

His vote doesn't stink of wolf to me.

The second one to vote Nienna was Inziladun.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

There are three at this time who stand out to me: Boromir, who has thrown things out all over the place to the point I don't know how to take him; the phantom, offering little of any use, while making vague threats about how long everyone is safe, and Nienna, who cast that 'just because' vote for Feanor.
It's the last that bothers me the most, I think, and it smacks of a nervous ne'er do well possibly trying to eliminate one who could be a threat to her nefarious plans.

Of the sort-of joke-voters Nienna was the most discussed and in a way Inzy's vote was a very easy one. The tone of this, however, looks genuine to me, rather like a confused innocent who is not sure of what to do.

Lomzy, who was the third, obviously didn't have anything sinister in mind.

And then comes possibly the most quoted line in this game this far:

Originally Posted by Boro

Oh hell...

++Nienna

This is going to end horribly, I can tell.

This can be justified simply as a vote to save himself, as the voting situation when he made his vote was as follows:

Boro 3
Shasta 3
Nienna 3
Fea 1
Agan 1
Lommy 1
Sally 1
phantom 1
Lari 1

He must have wanted to save himself and considered Nienna a better lynch candidate than Shasta. In that light his vote doesn't seem that sinister. Of course, a wolf would like to save himself just as well. Actually - it just popped into my mind that if both Boro and Shasta were wolves, it would explain why he chose Nienna over Shasta without question. Have to look into this...

The last Nienna-voter was McCaber.

Originally Posted by McCaber

As I want Boro to live at least another day, my vote has to be

++Nienna

Because I'm pretty sure I can see what he's trying to do with this.

He cross-posted with Boro's vote so he must have seen the voting situation the same way Boro did. I'd like McCaber to clarify some things about this. Firstly, why did you want Boro to survive at least another Day, and secondly, who is "he" and what is "this" in your last sentence? Sorry, the post just didn't make sense to me and it made me uneasy.


EDIT: x-ed with McCaber and Boro

[Nerwen]

Lommy

She made a lot of posts, but I can't find anything at all in most of them. (I'm looking especially for things that might have been taken as Seer-hints).

However, she did make a couple of lists:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen - funny and makes sense-ish, no reason to be at her throat yet
Eomer - his normal self ie bears watching <--Could this have been taken as a Seer-hint by the wolves?
Lommy - to quote one of the greatest minstrels of our times, J.R.R. Tolkien: "immortal maiden Elven-wise"... except sadly not immortal! <-- Possibly taken as a gifted hint also?
Aganzir - is for once refraining from attacking me + makes good points = good
Sally - her instant has been an hour - suspicious
McCaber - making points and suspecting people, I quite like it
Izzy - nothing
Mira - nothing
Gaurcrist - nothing
Shasta - nothing
Gwath - nothing
Boro88 - amusing... but I'm really going to rip something or someone to pieces if he and phantom start a sort of clandestine co-operation again!
Kath - her normal self
Inziladun - getting hang of the game, actually playing, I like it
Fea - nothing
Nienna - making vague hints
Greenie - amusing but not much substance yet
Lari - fishy exactly in the way that attracts my Day1 votes magnetically (and usually is not proof of guilt.... *sigh*)
Mith - just made a fair point
the phantom - lack of substance and volume

Then there's this, discussing the votes:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really like the votes so far. They seem terribly flimsily reasoned even for Day1 votes. And what's all this "I'll vote x 'cos she won't get angry"?!

The first vote was Mira for Sally for apparently no reason even though there were already two pages of posting. I don't understand how come she wasn't able to find anything even slightly suspicious in that all.

The second one was Mith for phantom. Looks like she was just having a bad day and although that isn't a reasonable reason to vote someone, I'll let it pass. Or maybe she was just joking. *sigh*

Then, there was Kath for me. Guess what? I probably like this vote the best of those given so far. She voted less than ten minutes after Mira but unlike her, she was able to make a reasonable vote based on a (minor) suspicious thing. Exactly the thing I expect people to do on Day1. Who cares if the reason to suspect is a small one? It's still better than making a total shot in the dark!

I don't get Boro's behaviour but I think people are too quick to jump on it. It could have been just a joke. *shrugs* But actually the announcement that he's getting serious and we should ignore everything he said in the first half of the Day is what puzzles and worries me the most...

Quite frankly I don't like tp trying to hint being this and that. It could be a scheme to protect the village but it also could be a scheme to help the baddies or just him having fun, both of which do not sound very good to me.

Okay, back to discuss votes. Sally voted Agan based on a weird feeling and also used the infamous "she won't get mad at me" argument. I think this vote is ok, there's nothing bad in gut-feeling votes (except that they don't really reveal much of the voter).

Fea voted Boro next. I get a very bad feeling from this vote. It looks like a carefully planned bandwagon-starter against a dangerous player or maybe even a suspected gifted.

Gwathagor followed suit, but like he reminded, he mentioned the reason to vote Boro first and his vote looks rather ok, a lot less sinister than Fea's.

Nienna voted Fea just because "it's always a good idea to lynch Fea". If she's not going to come back and retract I'm going to seriously consider voting her. There were more then three pages of posting when she voted and she couldn't think of any more reasonable vote than voting her friend jokingly!

I don't like Shasta's vote either. Although it's (at least partly) a joke/grudge vote, I don't like it at all that he joins the predominant bandwagon so carelessly. Wolves are the only ones who can afford carelessness like that.

And another list: ("Good" and "Okay" categories ommitted.)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Bad
Mira - like I just said, I don't like her vote.
Shasta - careless like a wolf (see my post discussing votes).
Fea - evil schemer-mastermind.
Nienna - trying to get away with a chit-chatty no trail vote? Or am I just overinterpreting it merely because I don't like it?
the phantom - I don't like the way he throws around various hints and is having ah so much fun with his role.

I can't get much out of this... except that she expressed suspicion of Shasta, Lari, tp and Fea more than once. The comment on Fea just above stands out because she's listed her simply as "evil schemer mastermind", whereas the other "bad" names have reasons for being there... but Lommy went on to vote Nienna for voting Fea. She also specifically used "wolf" in relation to Shasta twice, and voted him... but then switched. (Also, she'd previous had "nothing" to say about both Shasta and Fea.)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I must say I like Boro a lot more now that he has started taking the game seriously. He gives me the solid good innocent-Boro vibes but I'm far from sure so I'm still watching the situation. Well it may be simply that he stopped scheming...

Could the wolves have thought they were lovers who had just found each other? Or could the line "watching the situation" have been taken as a Seer-hint? (i.e. that she would dream him but hadn't yet.)

Says of Mith:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm not quite sure if I like Mith's discussion of Shasta. It's somehow rather unsettling... like, I don't know, maybe it sounds a bit as if it was written by a baddie instead of a goodie?

So...I don't know. Basically, she expressed suspicion of quite a few people, and did some things that might have looked gifted-ish (depending on who the wolves are) but overall it tends to cancel out e.g., her talking about Shasta as wolf-like, but then switching her vote to Nienna (known innocent)... would that have looked Seerish to a Wolftanis Althreduin? I doubt it.

EDIT: X'd since my last post.
EDIT2:name left out.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Boro

I did it to save me, it's that simple. And I didn't realize I gave you such a headache when playing, my craziness is meant to amuse, if I knew I was being a real pain I would have stopped along time ago. You all need to make me aware of this stuff!

Don't worry, it's yesterDay's voting in general rather than your vote (or let alone your playing style) that is causing me a headache.

[Boromir88]

I really wish Kath would get here with the summary posts, I rely so much on that, instead of scrolling through pages of stuff. You know if she was evil she could twist the summary to her whim, because I do not double check any of it. I wonder, does everyone else not double check her summary posts?

Nerwen - funny and makes sense-ish, no reason to be at her throat yet
Eomer - his normal self ie bears watching
Lommy - to quote one of the greatest minstrels of our times, J.R.R. Tolkien: "immortal maiden Elven-wise"... except sadly not immortal!
Aganzir - is for once refraining from attacking me + makes good points = good
Sally - her instant has been an hour - suspicious
McCaber - making points and suspecting people, I quite like it
Izzy - nothing
Mira - nothing
Gaurcrist - nothing
Shasta - nothing
Gwath - nothing
Boro88 - amusing... but I'm really going to rip something or someone to pieces if he and phantom start a sort of clandestine co-operation again!
Kath - her normal self
Inziladun - getting hang of the game, actually playing, I like it
Fea - nothing
Nienna - making vague hints
Greenie - amusing but not much substance yet
Lari - fishy exactly in the way that attracts my Day1 votes magnetically (and usually is not proof of guilt.... *sigh*)
Mith - just made a fair point
the phantom - lack of substance and volume

There is nothing on a lot of people, but this was still early in the game, and of course all those "nothings" had not posted.

She like's Nerwen and me for being amusing. She also thinks Greenie is amusing but lacks substance. She likes Agan, McCaber and Zil for their approaches to the game so far.

Thinks sally is suspicious for her appearance. Says need to watch Eomer and doesn't like Lari's vote, and thinks phantom lacks substance and volume.

I can't see any baddie being tipped off that Lommy is the seer here. She mentions a lot of people. I haven't played enough with Lari quite yet, the one time I was the cobbler she was a super wolf. Eomer and phantom are far too composed to see any suspicion against them as being an automatic seer hint.

It is interesting what she said about herself however...maybe they believed Lommy was tipping off her role? "immortal maiden elven wise." If she was a maiden, or trying to look like one, that would tip off the robber bridegroom too.

In post 46 she tells Greenie to just ingore tp and me, because we were most likely just joking. tp said he was, and I can believe that, I thought he was sincerely dropping hints about his role everywhere.

136 is her next listing and the list is pretty evenly spread out. I guess the one thing that sticks out is in the evil list, while having a reason for almost everyone she calls Fea the "evil schemer-mastermind." If they thought they were getting the seer, this looks bad for anyone on the list, particularly Fea.

But then she defends my behavior while throwing a supicion at tp.

Well hishints are really rather boldly out there so it makes me wonder, as do many others who are throwing various hints around, mainly the phantom. This game is crazy.~post 161

I've personally witness tp in action as a wolf, and no matter what he likes to get the seer first. If the consistent Lommy against tp suspicion was tipping him off, he would kill her right off the bat.

The problem is I don't know if Lommy was killed because she was trying to look like the seer, or a lover. Since she turned out an ordo, I think it was clear that she was trying to fake some role to serve as protection. It would be easier to impersonate a lover, than the seer, and with the way she defended me from my attackers (thank you dear ), called herself a maiden, and generally defended me throughout the day. Plus, I was bluntly trying to hint at being a lover myself through most of the day, maybe they thought Lommy and I were lovers and were trying to take out two with one? But then why not me, who was giving more blatant hints?

Edit: crossed with Nerwen and Greenie

[Boromir88]

I'm on the fence about tp, I get what he was doing in saying that I obviously had a female role. Or at least I think so, but will wait for him to confirm it. He figured I was faking the lover status, and by emphasizing that I obviously had the female role, he was hoping to get the robber bridegroom to come after me. If so, then he has proven (at least to me) his innocence, but the problem I have is misreading tp's dizzling intellect. Plus, he could actually be a wolf, who believed my lover crap yesterday and is just waiting to take out two-in-one.

I have no good reason to feel bad about Mith, other than her posting yesterday. The frustrated, stressed out Mith, then come back recomposed is a classic frustrated baddie Mith. Also, she never asked if I didn't want to be lynched yesterday. I was used to that innocent Mith treatment. Of course people adapt and change to the situation and people's expectations, or maybe I haven't done a good enough job proving her I am innocent yet, or maybe she was just genuinely angry at me yesterday. Who knows? But just her overall posting yesterday is why I am suspicious of her today.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I've not read all the way through the thread but....


Seriously? Nienna? Why, people? Why?



Back soon. Doing a friend a favor and then I'm going to catch up over here, so I'll be back with more thoughts asap. And I'll also do a vote tally, because I want to see how the poor kid ended up deaded while I was gone.

[the phantom]

I'm here, and finishing my read-through. I've read everyone's posts except Boro and Mith, so when I'm done with them I'll post a little something. But first I'm going to post the voting and give thoughts on that.

As far as Lommy dying- not bad. Not that I don't enjoy her company, but that's as good a result as we could hope for (besides a Ranger save). After my read of her last night I was leaning innocent for her, but certainly not Gifted. She seemed peppy and fun at times, but not nervous or jumpy. She also seemed like she had the village's interests in mind, but didn't strike me as someone with heavy responsibility weighing her down.

Anyway, Boro, your first instinct was right. I wouldn't have killed her. There were two or perhaps three villagers who looked giftedish after my readthrough and they would've been the first to go. Though I think Seer hunting would've been out of the question, for I believe there was very little to go on.

Back in a bit.

edit: x-post since Boro

[the phantom]

Lari ++tp
Boro ++tp (2)
Mira ++Sally
Mith ++tp (3)
Kath ++Lommy
Sally ++Agan
Fea ++Boro
Gwath ++Boro (2)
Nienna ++Fea
Shasta ++Boro (3)
Lommy ++Shasta
Eomer ++Nienna
Boro --tp (2)
Izzy ++Shasta (2)
Inzil ++Nienna (2)
Green ++Shasta (3)
Mith --tp (1)
tp ++Lari
Lommy --Shasta (2)
Lommy ++Nienna (3)
Boro ++Nienna (4)
McCaber ++Nienna (5)
Agan ++Shasta (3)
Mith ++Shasta (4)

Thoughts:

Lari's vote is weird, because she states she voted for me hoping that I won't be lynched. Along the same lines is Sally, who votes Agan because "she won't mind" and Mira, who votes for Sally because "she won't hurt me back". Those are kind of weird in my mind.

Supposing Boro is innocent, then perhaps Gwath or Shasta could be baddies sending another innocent into a tie for the lead.

Supposing Shasta is innocent, Izzy doesn't look great for hopping on the bandwagon. Especially if it was to save a guilty Boro.

If both Boro and Shasta are innocent, then perhaps Inzil doesn't look so good for elevating a fourth innocent to multi-vote status.

And of course the oft quoted Boro vote does sound weird. Why so confident about a bad result, and if so, why not give Shasta a vote? But seeing as Boro had three votes himself, I am more than willing to let that comment go, for I can testify to the fact that when you are under the gun, all you can think about is padding the margin of the leader, no matter how innocent you think they may be.

Agan and Mith tried to do in Shasta there at the end, and seeing as they had no reason to save Nienna (from a baddie saving a baddie perspective) their votes look rather good.

Anyway, there's more I could say, but I really shouldn't at this point.

Now, I'm off to try and read Boro and Mith from Day 1.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by phantom

And of course the oft quoted Boro vote does sound weird. Why so confident about a bad result, and if so, why not give Shasta a vote? But seeing as Boro had three votes himself, I am more than willing to let that comment go, for I can testify to the fact that when you are under the gun, all you can think about is padding the margin of the leader, no matter how innocent you think they may be.

The thing that bothers me in Boro's vote is that when he voted there was Nienna, Shasta and himself all with three votes. Nienna was no more on the lead than Shasta was. Boro's vote for Nienna seems as if he was very reluctant to do it and as if he had no choice when he actually did have. So, as I'm wary of Shasta already, I wonder if they could be fellows and thus Boro was working to save his fellow's skin in addition to his own. Or then an innocent Boro voted the one he thought was less bad out of two bad possibilities. Dunno what to think, but this certainly puzzles me.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Green

The thing that bothers me in Boro's vote is that when he voted there was Nienna, Shasta and himself all with three votes. Nienna was no more on the lead than Shasta was.

If that was the case then I think my tally is wrong. I had Nienna at three and Shasta only at two when Boro voted.

[Mithalwen]

Boromir, I haven't decided about you at all but if I came back composed it was due to a night's sleep and a dose of evening primrose oil. Go figure.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I have no good reason to feel bad about Mith, other than her posting yesterday. The frustrated, stressed out Mith, then come back recomposed is a classic frustrated baddie Mith. Also, she never asked if I didn't want to be lynched yesterday. I was used to that innocent Mith treatment. Of course people adapt and change to the situation and people's expectations, or maybe I haven't done a good enough job proving her I am innocent yet, or maybe she was just genuinely angry at me yesterday. Who knows? But just her overall posting yesterday is why I am suspicious of her today.

Yes, but there's the Shasta question. If Mith's a wolf and he's her fellow, I don't see why she'd be so hot to Fenris him... and if she's a wolf and he's not, she tried hard hard to get someone lynched who had just announced he was an ordo, and thus a Little Red Cap candidate.

I mean, she could have done either of those things just to look innocent, of course, but I certainly wouldn't want to bet on it.

EDIT"X'd since tp at #217,

[Kath]

Hey all I am around! Have been trying to sort out this meet with Lari and Mira 'cause thanks to the 'Downs and it's decision not to send me emails things got confused. By the way, those in the know, what are the real names of those two? It would be useful to know by tomorrow!

Anyhoo, hi. Am here, will be reading.

[Boromir88]

If that was the case then I think my tally is wrong. I had Nienna at three and Shasta only at two when Boro voted.~the phantom

Nope, your tally is correct. It was me - 3, Nienna - 3, Shasta - 2 when I voted.

I did think about creating a 3 way tie to see how the last voters went, but was reminded that we have Hansel and Gretel who can really muddy up the voting tallies. Putting Nienna in the lead would then give me the best shot of surviving.

McCaber and I cross voted, so when he voted he was definitely wanting to save me. He might have done it to throw me off a baddie's trail, but despite not posting that much, he has always been a good judge of character. So, that vote looks innocent to me. Also, I don't know, I just think wolf McCaber would jump at the chance to be able to lynch me, he doesn't come off as the Agan buttering up type.

See I disagree with you about Mith and Agan's votes, simply because of the Hansel and Gretel factor. Of course, Nienna turned up innocent, but with the finally tally being.

Nienna: 5
Shasta: 4
Me: 3

Any one of us could have ended up lynched. So, I don't think there votes look like a concerted effort to save anyone, but could be a way to push 3 people to a chance to be lynched because of Hansel and Gretel. It really looks more like votes where they didn't care who ended up getting it, and also Nerwen still had to vote. It might be known that her internet connection gives her problems, but who knew she without question she wasn't there?

Edit: crossed with Nerwen and Kath

[Kath]

Right, let us have a look at Lommy. I'm thinking safe kill as I don't recall her coming to many conclusions yesterDay but it's worth checking. Speaking of which, haha Boro! Sadly I can't get away with skewing the analysis when evil, indeed doing that is how I get caught.

Lommy:
Banter but starting the loud/quiet debate. Heh, maybe those who killed her just wanted to knock that on the head before it started! Then the whole Lari's vote thing which did get resolved in the end. Did say would avoid Gaurcrist and Inzil for that Day because it was their first game, but that after that she'd go after them. To be honest, unless both those two are wolves and they sent the kill in fear I doubt that has much to do with anything.

List: Nerwen, Agan, McCaber, Inzil and Mith seem to be on her good list. Eomer, sally, Nienna and Lari on her not so good list. Early suspicion of Nienna there.

Why was scheme bolded? Don't think it's important I just wondered.

Asks about the thing between phantom and Nienna. Well that's interesting. Yes it could be just role banter but hey what a way to cover wolvish communication!

Talks about the votes. Not happy with them. Doesn't like Mira's (no reason), Fea's (deliberately bandwaggoning), Shasta's (joining bandwagon) or Nienna's (joke). It is odd how much emphasis she puts on Nienna's vote in comparison to the others. I suspect though that this makes a safe kill even more likely as, having seen the results of the lynch, the wolves weren't thinking she was the Seer after this. See, Eomer came up with the same facts, but in his case Nienna didn't blare out.

Mira, Shasta, Nienna, Fea, phantom on her bad list.

Now here's something. From the post before I'd have guessed that Lommy would vote Nienna, then suddenly she has a flip-flop and ends up voting Shasta. Eomer seems to cross-post a bit with his vote for Nienna and I wonder whether he was going for a safe position in a bandwagon there.

Did later switch back to Nienna but seemed to regret it.

So yeah, safe kill by the looks of it. The Eomer thing is interesting though.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

As far as Lommy dying- not bad. Not that I don't enjoy her company, but that's as good a result as we could hope for (besides a Ranger save). After my read of her last night I was leaning innocent for her, but certainly not Gifted. She seemed peppy and fun at times, but not nervous or jumpy. She also seemed like she had the village's interests in mind, but didn't strike me as someone with heavy responsibility weighing her down.

It seems a bit odd to me that Lommy was taken out the Night after voting for Nienna, since she didn't show any particular clues that should have made her an obvious target. I guess it's coincidence though, cos otherwise it would mean some sort of complex scheme is in play, and at the moment that's just too much to try and puzzle out.

[Mithalwen]

Boro you aren't making sense. If I were a wolf why would I have drawn attention to the Hansel and Gretel factor which everyone else seemed to have forgotten? Why would I have draw attention to the fact that Shasta had made himself a bit of a liability to the Village? If I were a wolf I woudl have wanted any other lynched and hoped that Shasta was Little Red Cap.

And on that subject since Nienna and Lommie were ordos that means Shasta, if he is telling the truth has a one in three chance of being Little Red Cap. Uneasy lies the head that wears the Red Riding Hood....

[the phantom]

Okay, here's a list. As usual, I will most definitely not be saying everything that I think about people, for I am leaning gifted in a couple places and lover in another, and it wouldn't do to let the baddies know.

Agan- She comes across as good right from the start. She seems genuinely concerned about the outcome and seems to be playing damage control with her vote, which I can understand. Maybe not innocent, but doing a great job of looking it thus far, and thus should be rewarded with safe passage through the day.
Boro88- I got nothing useful from my read-through of him. A couple of his posts were weird, which probably means he's up to a few schemes, but I don't have the time to guess at them. I'm not looking to lynch him, but I certainly can't say I feel comfortable with him at this point.
Eomer- I'd like to hear more from him. Undecided.
Fea- Another quiet one. Good vote reasoning. But she could do that anyway.
Gaurcrist- What the heck? If he's another no-show today then he dies. What should we do about that?
Green- I won't be voting for her. No bad vibes.
Gwath- In between.
Inzil- Nothing ringing alarms yet. Seems to make sense, so I'd like to hear more from him today.
Izzy- I don't like a couple of her posts. In particular I jotted down that I didn't like the way she left questions hanging in 140.
Kath- Too early to tell. I need another day.
Lari- How much is she going to be around even?
McCaber- I like his play. He's either good or faking it well thus far, and should be rewarded.
Mira- I don't like her vote, and the way she "notes the hostility" between Mith and I is weird.
Mith- Too soon to tell. She hasn't shown her hand much at all.
Nerwen- A couple good points and entertaining to boot. Doesn't mean she's innocent, but I'm not wanting to vote her right now.
Sally- Weird vote, and then really quiet. Let's see more, lass.
Shasta- I dunno. Just dunno. Who would do that Ordo reveal? A good Shasta or a bad? And I'm not so much of a fan of his voting consistency. It's too easy. I need another day to decide on him.
the phantom- Prince Philip (aka Secret Co-Mod with Wilwa)

[Boromir88]

Yes, but there's the Shasta question. If Mith's a wolf and he's her fellow, I don't see why she'd be so hot to Fenris him... and if she's a wolf and he's not, she tried hard hard to get someone lynched who had just announced he was an ordo, and thus a Little Red Cap candidate.~Nerwen

But who said Shasta was a wolf? I have no reason to doubt his ordo claim, and even though he was not chosen last night, I still don't. It could be that they want to push for his lynching today. Even if Shasta is LRC what benefit would it be for the wolves to night kill him and turn him, now that the talk swirled around him that he really could be LRC? If he is, and is turned, he will be lynched immediately...so might as well keep him around as an easy lynch choice, since he already claimed to be an ordo, but people will grow more and more suspicious if he doesn't wind up night killed. I might have just talked myself in circles, but maybe you can make sense of that.

Plus it is Agan's and Mith's jump on his ordo claim that is suspicious. I mean they both seemed to over-react. I can see reason in people questioning his claim, but both stressed "Woah Shasta made an ordo claim! Watch the sneaky wolf trying to get us off his tail!"

Mith immediately jumps on it within a span of 11 minutes:

Err Shasta, if you are an innocent, is that really the most helpful thing you could post? Not going to be any Captain Oates acts from you then are there?~post 71

But she votes for Shasta not because of a real belief he is a wolf, but to play cautious and if he is an ordo than he could be LRC. But the problem occurs when she continues to go after him, because his reveal was entirely unhelpful and therefor it makes him look like a wolf.

Also I want to look at Shasta again. His reveal was so spectacularly unhelpful as an opening gambit I wonder if it is genuine. If he is not a wolf then BBW may well take a punt.... since they have nothing to lose. From the baddies perspective he is either a plain ordo with a 20% chance of being LRC or he is a gifted bluffing.

From the goodies (goody goody gum gum) perspective he has made himself vulnerable and a liability. Not quite sure that it deserves a preemptive lynch - though it is tempting. And he could be that gifted bluffing...~152

BBW will surely check out Shasta if he knows he isn't a baddie. There is a 1/5 chance of him being LRC. I am just saying that if we aren't more certain about another candidate, lynching Shasta is damage limitation. Assuming he is telling the truth. Ruthless but when it comes to it we haven't got much margin for error.~163

The bolded part is interesting, because there is an interesting change from Shasta being a wolf, falsely claiming ordinariness, to now making a pretty assured statement that there is a 1/5 chance he is LRC, so it would be good to lynch him if there aren't other choices.

If Shasta were a wolf then it was an interesting opening gambit to make himself so conspicuous. And of course it makes lynching him a better idea!!!~177

Then back to Shasta's claim that make him look like a wolf and it would be good to lynch him.
And Agan in post 80:

Basically that's not a good thing to say for an ordo since it narrows down the field of possible Red Caps and therefore makes it easier for the Big Bad Wolf to guess her identity.

Agan's reaction looks a little better, because it is not an over-reaction, just a scolding that it wasn't helpful. I guess it's the vote for him that worries me.

Where with Mith, it was pretty consistent pushing towards Shasta. She did get us thinking about LRC and Hansel and Gretel, but that doesn't make her look innocent in anyway, just helpful, and wolves can be definitely be helpful. Other than that, her day was filled with Shasta, and going back and fourth on his ordo claim.

Glad I was able to warm up, I feel like I am really hitting my stride after accumulating some rust.

Edit: crossed with a lot of people and really don't want to see who it all was with

[Boromir88]

Boro you aren't making sense.~Mith

But that is when I do my best work. It is when I am making sense and excellently analyzing seer posts when you have to watch out for me.

[Mithalwen]

Hhmph. Is anyone out there?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Side note: I meant to post this two hours ago, but had to run off to organize my horribly complicated life.

---

Kath-

Lari is Jenny, Mira is Ashley.

Have fun!

---

Perhaps Lommy was a safe kill. She didn't really stand out, at least not to me, though to be fair, I wasn't really around to notice much. I know you guys have mentioned it, but I thought I'd add my thoughts on that.

Here's what's going on in my head: the bad guys don't all have the same skill set/needs. The wolf is searching for Red, Rumplie is trying to avoid the attention of the chick whose baby xe stole, and they're all, as far as I can remember, trying to avoid being dreamed (duh) or guessed by a Lover.

And so I'm thinking that Lommy was killed less because she stood out - there are too many people that the bad guys *need* to kill - and more because they need to kill a bunch of people and may as well not leave a trail.

Now if the baddies are playing hard to get, it's not necessarily a sign that they have any particular personality. Just that they're capable of laying low.

I don't want to replace Nerwen as Captain Obvious but the bad guys want the Lovers around just as much as the village does: neither side wins if the Lovers survive, right? So maybe the wolves though Lom was half a Lover pair? That's who I'd have gone after if I was a bad guy- someone I thought was a standalone enemy. That or the seer. I mean, the seer is obviously a major target, but in this game, with so many roles, I'd be hard pressed to figure out as a wolf who I'd kill first, and that's sad since my typical playing strategy is to think "What would the wolves do?"

Sorry, my brain just shut off. Too much going on. I need to finish getting ready for my last big college shebang (at least the last one I actually care about), and that requires things like lip color, heels, and carefully chosen undergarments.

I'll be back later, hopefully with a functional mind.

[Mirandir]

Here and reading.

[Lariren Shadow]

Really Nienna? Isn't that the second time she has been killed on Day 1? Poor Nienna.

First some replies:

phantom: because i wasn't going to be around for pretty much all of the Day. As I stated. On the admin thread. And I had to vote for someone and I was confident that the villiage would not lynch you Day 1. Hence my vote. And for how much I'm going to be around SPONTANIOUS LONDON TRIP HAPPENED SO I'M NOT GOING TO BE AROUND MUCH CAUSE I'M IN LONDON AND NOT NEAR A COMPUTER LIKE MIRA. Sorry...I had a good day today.

And I had a reply to Lommy...but then she died so clearly that's not going to work out. And she was the one that I was most suspicious of yesterDay.

Other than Lommy, who is now dead, I didn't like how Boro was sounding yesterDay and he's still sounding that way toDay. Its just I feeling I get when I read his posts.

Mith isn't looking too good to me either but then again all that there is a few suspicions for Day 1. I just don't like how she sounds either.

Bah this is really not helping with my whole I should vote soon.

Originally Posted by Kath

Hey all I am around! Have been trying to sort out this meet with Lari and Mira 'cause thanks to the 'Downs and it's decision not to send me emails things got confused. By the way, those in the know, what are the real names of those two? It would be useful to know by tomorrow!

Anyhoo, hi. Am here, will be reading.

Yes I'm Jenny and Mira is Ashley. And tomorrow. Yes.

[Mirandir]

Nienna? Really guys? Why? At this rate I'm never going to get to play a proper game with her...

So Lommy. Well, my first thought (and this is based completely on past games) was that Niennawolf had killed her in retaliation for not liking her playing style or something to that effect. Then I remembered that Nienna was dead before Lommy. And she was an ordo. So fail on my part on both counts.

I would go through and analyze what Lommy said before she died, but that has apparently already been done. So instead, I will work on a suspicion list. Be back shortly.

[Kath]

I would go through and analyze what Lommy said before she died, but that has apparently already been done.

Doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it either! Don't fall in to the trap of believing what everyone else says.

I am going to have to vote early again toDay, as in by about midnight my time. I'll be around for a while though. Have a look at the Nienna voters and see what's been going on toDay.

[Lariren Shadow]

Voting early again because I won't have internet access again for awhile and am sleepy.

++Boro

I don't like the way he sounds as of right now.

[Mithalwen]

Maybe the London players should go here!

http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/events...form/18495.htm

[Mirandir]

Sally - Was surpringly unvocal (is that even a word?) yesterDay, has only posted once today. She did say she was having internet issues, though, so she's okay for the time being.

Mira - Well, ya know. Or maybe you don't. It's certainly not my job to tell you.

Gaurcrist - Hasn't made an appearance that I've seen thus far.

Boro88 - I was fairly certain I was going to end up Night killed because of the suspicion surrounding Boro and myself yesterDay what with the hinting that he was the cobbler and I was a wolf or vice versa. However, the fact that I wasn't killed makes me even more suspicious. Not necessarily of him, but in general.

Kath - Epic failed at meeting us so we should lynch her. =P Just kidding. Nothing really on her.

Fea - Nobody's said that Fea looks suspicious yet. That generally means that she's evil. It's always when no one thinks she's suspicious that she's really evil and ends up fooling us all right until the end.

Mith - Is apparently a hormonal woman. I won't hold that against her for now, but if such behavior continues beyond toDay I'll be looking into it.

the phantom - Is phantom. I can never get a read on him.

Analysis of others might come later when I'm not trying to do three other things at one time.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Maybe the London players should go here!

http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/events...form/18495.htm

I was at the Tate Modern yesterday too! Gah can't believe I missed it!

[Gaurcrist]

In my opinion, there are two people who are acting quite strange, ever since the beginning. There are A Little Green and Boromir. I have one of those feelings in my gut about Boro, and he seems to be the most suspicious. Plus, I don't like his avatar. So, I will heed the teachings of Ocham's razor and choose Boromir.

++Boromir88