WW LX - Mortal Men, doomed to die

[satansaloser2005]

Voteses, precious....


Brinn-->Sally at 3:08am
Shasta-->Noggie at 4:14am
Nilp-->Nilp at 7:11am
Rune-->Izzy at 7:42am
Wilwa-->Eomer at 7:52am
Sally-->Noggie at 10:44am
Lhuna-->Legate at 1:12pm
Kent-->Rune at 2:18pm
Nienna-->Sally at 2:24pm
Legate-->Izzy at 2:52pm
Izzy-->Sally at 2:59pm
Kath-->Izzy at 2:59pm
Eomer-->Izzy at 2:59pm
Steve-->Izzy at 3:00pm
Noggie-->Sally at 3:01pm (doesn't count)

GMT-6, deadline of 3pm, innocents and baddies. Enjoy!



And toDay's votes so far. Just so we know where we stand with an hour and a half or so left in the Day.

Nerwen-->Sally at 10:56am
Rune-->Steve at 11:35am
Wilwa-->Eomer at 12:38pm
Brinn-->Eomer at 1:10pm

Which puts Eomer in the lead at two votes, with me and Steve-Oh-Noes at one a piece. 11 votes yet to come in.


I'm off to the doctor's for a bit, but when I get back I'll give you some more thoughts before I head off to nap land. Post lots while I'm gone, dearies!

(And Nilp! Not in public, you silly thing you!)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, so now it seems... a pity people who posted less before seem that they cannot post more even now, which is pretty bad. Now this is actually becoming the main point that worries me and I just wish that on Day 3 everybody will be here and posting properly!

I cannot say how I feel about Brinn now - I quite like her points concerning the Kath-issue, that's reasonable, although everybody could be reasonable, right - and basically I agree with her suspicions of Eomer, but that's all I can react to in her posts - so in fact nothing that much. Nilp looks like heating up, that's good, I'm looking forward to seeing more than just a list from him (and I expect him to do so ). Eönwë actually seemed quite sensible yesterDay (given the fact that he came only late), and now - well, he does not raise my alarms, for one. Although again, he's perhaps bordering the group of people who just flow under my radar screen. The same would go for Shasta for example.

I am becoming slightly worried about wilwa, like I said before, but not to any particular extent. I should take a deeper look at Nerwen, sally or Kent... and I would like to see Lhuna and Nienna posting.

Well, still, probably the one I am worried about the most is Eomer for now. But, I know what. I am going to (at least briefly) re-read the thread now once again and try to reconsider everything once again.

[Nienna]

And I'm around and will be until deadline if anyone wants to talk things out.

On discussions already started:

- I think Kath was probably a no trail kill. I know I was not personally getting any seer vibes from her and it worries me that Eomer was saying that the wolves might have thought she was the seer. This doesn't speak well to Eomer's innocence. If he is a wolf and was getting seer vibes from Kath he might have talked the other wolves into killing her with the added bonus that she wouldn't leave a trail.

- I think the Izzy lynch was just a scramble at the end of the Day. It wasn't overly bandwagony but it may have had some wolfish help.

I'll be back in a few with a suspicion list.

Edit: x-ed with Sally and Legate

[Nogrod]

Well, you are all playing it too safe!

It's basically impossible to pick the wolves when every ordo is playing it safe.

Now where is this rant coming from? From the last Day's posting in the end as you all can't be baddies...

Wilwa was going to work and popped in three hours before the DL and Lhuna voted about two hours before. After that there were certain people around, namely: Kent, me, Izzy, Legate, Kath, Eönwë, Rune, Nienna, Eomer

Leaving out the known and dead innocents and myself (a known innocent to me) it leaves a list of: Kent, Legate, Eönwë, Rune, Nienna, Eomer.

Of these two gave their votes about an half an hour+ before the DL and never showed themselves after that. Namely Kent and Nienna. Both are very carefully positioned votes - and I could bet one of them or both didn't have to rush away from the computer so they probably hung around. But on what state of mind? And why didn't they come back to share their views?

Of course we have no way to say who else was coolly watching by as things unfolded but of these two we know they were there just half an hour before the DL.

Leaving also those two aside we get the list of: Legate, Eönwë, Rune, Eomer. So these were the people whom we do not know are innocents or not but stood there to the end.

Of these Rune concentrated on defending himself and disappeared when there was twenty minutes left. So he kind of goes to the similar kind of category with Kent and Nienna, only being less cautious.

Legate was pretty straightforward with saying he was for lynching Izzy. And even if she turned out innocent I think that was reasonable. The problem being that a wolf-Legate could have done exactly the same thing...

Eomer answers for Kent on behalf of Rune (making an indirect suspicion of Izzy by that) about half an hour before the DL. Then six minutes before lists the last votes deeming all of them ok or understandable save Sally's. Wants to save me and is happy tyo choose between Sally & Izzy (three minutes to DL).

Eönwë interestingly had been around consistently saying nothing. Twenty minutes before he manages to suspect Brinn (and possibly Sally) a little (referring to my suspicions). Ten minutes before he still concentrates on philology... Six minutes before comments on Kent (a point made by Izzy) ending up ambivalent about him. Then seems to be in a hurry notifying Sally (Kath that should be?) of posting a list at such a late hour. Finally chooses at zero hour wishing to save me and feeling bad to have killed Sally too many times and ends up with Izzy.

A few thoughts to follow...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Here's what I'll do: I'll vote now, to fully demonstrate that I'm not interested in saving myself. I'm not going to vote for whoever else has votes, for survival.

But who for? Maybe a revenge vote? Wilwa has basically no case against me and when confronted with this, just brushes it off and votes for me anyway. How about Brinniel? She votes for me for reasons 'already explained' but I can't find an explanation anywhere. Maybe she could point me in the direction.

I think these two are being wilfully single-minded and could easily be villains. But I'm just as concerned about people who are playing smarter.

How about this from Nienna?

I think Kath was probably a no trail kill. I know I was not personally getting any seer vibes from her and it worries me that Eomer was saying that the wolves might have thought she was the seer. This doesn't speak well to Eomer's innocence. If he is a wolf and was getting seer vibes from Kath he might have talked the other wolves into killing her with the added bonus that she wouldn't leave a trail.

It does not speak to my innocence that I suggested the hypothesis that the nightly kill was an attempt to catch the village's greatest weapon - their Seer. This is just a crazy thing to say. I considered Nienna as a smart, quiet option before but now I'm not sure; it would also look like revenge, anyway.

Well, actually... I think I will vote for one of you.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++BRINNIEL

I can understand more that Wilwa's just got embroiled in a battle with me and feels the need to pursue it; Brinniel's posting is perhaps less excusable (this also includes her vote for Sally so I don't even have to feel too self-conscious about it).

But I'll hang around still.

[Nogrod]

So Nienna's and Kent's behaviour looks overly careful, Rune's I've talked already.

Legate's and Eomer's look consistent - which doesn't mark them innocents but talks a bit better of them anyway.

Which means Eönwë looks pretty bad to me right now. He was around but concentrated on everything else but on the situation at hand; trying to look helpful with making comments on Brinn and Kent who were not actually "on the menu" then - and ended up more or less ambivalent. Then his vote was the last one for Izzy, someone he hadn't even mentioned earlier (compare: he had indirectly indicated he had something against Sally when commenting my suspicipon of Brinn's vote for her earlier).

But to be true, I don't like the way Kent and Nienna drew off from the scene so near but safely far away from the DL either (I would be amazed if they both were wolves but one of them could be).

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

The only problem I have with voting this way, is that I have a feeling that this could just be the way Eönwë plays, no matter if he is bad or good.

It is.

And now for a list...

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod about me

he had indirectly indicated he had something against Sally when commenting my suspicipon of Brinn's vote for her earlier).

Anyway, here I was referring more to Brinn than Sally. I even mentioned (maybe not so clearly) in my post that it might be pushing it too far to assume that Sally was in on it. But Brinn seemed too apologetic and un-... (well, I can't remember the word I'm looking for but I sort of mean that she made it look like she didn't really mean the vote) for my liking.

edit: no x-ing sadly. And only 30 mins to DL!

[Nogrod]

No problem there with you referring more to Brinn there Eönwë. I think that was quite clear. The thing was that as you at the end said you'd be choosing between Sally and Izzy you had at least indirectly pointed at Sally beforehand as a possible suspect but you hadn't said a word about Izzy whom you voted...

And your vote came from the bushes and no one had an idea who you were going to vote - and you didn't actually help us in that...

[Eönwë]

Nienna - A pirate eh? You know what we do to pirates...
Kent2010 - He might scam us into joining him
Legate of Amon Lanc - rebels are never good for a stable society. I saw giive 'im the same treatment as pirates"
Nogrod - I don't fancy bein' hit by 'is famous The Cat O' Nine tails
Shastanis Althreduin - Pshhh! King?
wilwarin538 - A magic doer. Evil most likely.
Nerwen - See Shasta
Nilpaurion Felagund - can't be too fussy when lynchin'
Rune Son of Bjarne - See Wilwa. Only he has a more dramatic name.
Lhunardawen - See Legate
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Rohan? I dont like them thar people.
Groin Redbeard - The warlord is quiet. Who know what he plots
satansaloser2005 - Who is she? No fancy title? Why is she here?
Brinniel - See Sally


Oh... It was a serious list you wanted?

[Nogrod]

Okay. Get real people!

Where are you?

Any ideas you have?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

No problem there with you referring more to Brinn there Eönwë. I think that was quite clear. The thing was that as you at the end said you'd be choosing between Sally and Izzy you had at least indirectly pointed at Sally beforehand as a possible suspect but you hadn't said a word about Izzy whom you voted...

And your vote came from the bushes and no one had an idea who you were going to vote - and you didn't actually help us in that...

Ah. I see. Well, I've too often voted Sally when she seems suspicious and she turns out to be innocent. So I wanted to give her a chance to talk. Anyway, she didn't really seem very suspicious, not enough to lynch someone off.

edit: x-ed wi' Noggie

Where is everyone!?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It's really quiet, and so many votes to come.

[Nogrod]

After seeing Eönwë's list...

Never mind. I give up. Go and hang yourselves everyone. No sense in trying to help you people...



Could I vote for everyone?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, it took me somewhat longer to re-read the thread, I was being... erm... distracted.

But anyway, after re-reading... the main points are that about Eomer... I confirmed my main feeling that it's actually not really that he would seem so suspicous to me, in the sense of seeming evil, but just being strange. That is, acting in a way... sort of not doing things that would seem beneficial in my opinion, but even not sure what would he gain from it as a Wraith - except for possibly picking his innocence from the Kath-theory: but that would be such a complicated way of getting innocentishness... only if Eomer-Wraith would be really convinced (and his mates likely too!) that what Kath said was a seer hint, he would think that other villagers would think that too - but basically, that is as much stretching it as Eomer's theory itself seems to me.

But anyway, the other thing when re-reading was a slight more suspicion I gained about wilwa... I am just wondering about her voting for these two days, whether the consistency in it could not be artificial... but well. I guess I don't have much time till DL, so let's see now who has posted meanwhile and then get into voting... Hm.

EDIT: x-ed since Eönwë 209 or such

[Nienna]

List as promised:

Kent2010 - Innocentish - I'm not seeing any real reason to suspect him. He has been posting and giving opinions. Voted Rune Day One. He's using reason and I'm reading his posts and they make it seem like he's never been a wolf. Which speaks to his innocence. If he a wolf I give him props.

Legate of Amon Lanc - No Idea - I'm not really really sure whats up with him. I'm not getting any overly good or bad vibes. Voted Izzy Day One. He is being reasonable.

Nogrod - Innocentish - His taking over as leader seems rather normal. His pushing of people to make a reaction seems legitimate. Vote didn't count.

Shastanis Althreduin - No Idea - Voted Nog Day One

wilwarin538 - No Idea - I'm leaning evilish. Voted Eomer Day One and Day Two. I'm thinking I might agree with who ever commented that the Eomer/Wilwa thing might be wolf on wolf.

Nerwen - Leaning Innocent - Didn't vote Day One, voted Sally Day Two.

Nilpaurion Felagund - Leaning Innocent - Voted self Day One. He seems to have made some sense toDay and is being reasonable.

Rune Son of Bjarne - No Idea - voted Izzy Day One. I have really no idea... could go either way.

Lhunardawen - No Idea - Voted Legate Day One. Same as Rune could go either way.

Eomer of the Rohirrim - Leaning Evil - Voted Izzy at the last minute Day One and voted Brinn toDay with no real reasoning. Of all the players talking the most, he is the one who is worrying me. It's not necessarily anything concrete that I can point to in a post number but more of an overall sense of something being not innocent. His interaction with Wilwa and his thoughts on the Kath kill are the most suspicious.

Groin Redbeard - No Idea - Nope no idea at all. Didn't vote Day One.

satansaloser2005 - Evil - Voted Nog day One with no real reason and voted I'm getting terrible evil vibes from her. This could be just the way she is playing or that she can't post much but if she is innocent she needs to post something helpful really really soon for me to not vote for her.

Eönwë - No Idea - Voted Izzy at the last minute.

Brinniel - Leaning Innocentish - She voted Sally day One and Eomer toDay. She's been really busy with RL and what she has posted has made a lot of sense.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I am sorry, Eönwë, but I'm afraid my ability to take your list at face value is somewhat degraded by its content. I would have believed that anyone would have something better to do with a list than that . . .

I am highly suspicious of you, and you will probably receive my vote for that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, now I got completely puzzled at Eönwë's list: could you explain what is that supposed to mean? (Though not that you could not have picked a better time for that...)

EDIT: again x-ed since my last post

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I am aghast.

Vague suspicion lists seem to be in vogue.

A way to announce, 'Oh, I'm contributing', while keeping one's true thoughts hidden.

This is disturbing indeed.

[wilwarin538]

Managed to make it on for some quick comments before the end.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But anyway, the other thing when re-reading was a slight more suspicion I gained about wilwa... I am just wondering about her voting for these two days, whether the consistency in it could not be artificial... but well.

I can honestly say that my vote for Eomer yesterDay was random. The coin could have landed on Legate and I would still be suspicious of Eomer toDay, and good with Legate toDay. I'm not doing it purely to look consistent. I honestly just don't like the way Eomer is acting, I find him very defensive and eager to make himself look innocent.

Just wanted to comment on that quickly to just clear this up for good. I have to say I'm surprised on the small amount of votes so close to the end.

X'posted with a bunch actually

[Nogrod]

Looking how the clouds gather over Eomer I must say I'm a bit puzzled. He looks strange but that seldom means a wolf.

[wilwarin538]

Just saw the actual content of Eonwe's list....uhm, it's not Day 1 anymore, there really is no need for that.

[Nogrod]

Sally and Eönwë topping my list of suspicions right now.

[Nienna]

++ Sally

Edit: x-ed with Nog and Wilwa

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, you know what, right now I would almost feel like voting more some wilwa than Eomer, though my suspicion of wilwa is rather shallow and I have not yet had the time to think about it more.

One word to say for certain, I'm really a bit disappointed by the amount of people who are still not around toDay as much as I hoped them to be. Well of course, many are for some RL reasons - that's all right. But still, ah well, and mainly, those who could but would not post, that would be the worst.

And Eönwë, any explanations... gah, great. Should vote...

EDIT: okay, x-ed again basically since my last...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nienna - uneasy
Kent2010 - decent
Legate of Amon Lanc - somewhat uneasy
Nogrod - quite good
Shastanis Althreduin - slightly uneasy
wilwarin538 - not good at all
Nerwen - allright, I suppose
Nilpaurion Felagund - ok
Rune Son of Bjarne - small bit uneasy
Lhunardawen - allright, I suppose
Groin Redbeard - n/a
satansaloser2005 - uneasy
Eönwë - a bit uneasy
Brinniel - not good at all

Not especially helpful, I'm sure, but there you go.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Vague suspicion lists, coincidentally, limited my capacity for taking Legate and Eomer's innocence as a given.

But that for another DAY. My case has not yet been completely penned--and will like not be completed toDAY.

++Eönwë

[Kent2010]

I probably should have voted before my classes, wow this is horrible.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I can honestly say that my vote for Eomer yesterDay was random. The coin could have landed on Legate and I would still be suspicious of Eomer toDay, and good with Legate toDay. I'm not doing it purely to look consistent. I honestly just don't like the way Eomer is acting, I find him very defensive and eager to make himself look innocent.

Okay, well, whatever. I may as well look at wilwa more toMorrow, if I'm around.

Let's see.

++Eomer

[wilwarin538]

Nerwen-->Sally
Rune--> Steve
Wilwa-->Eomer
Brinn-->Eomer
Eomer --> Brinn
Nienna --> Sally (2)
Nilp --> Eonwe
Legate --> Eomer (3)

I believe that's it...

[Nogrod]

That did it Legate.

Do not lynch Eomer!

++ Eönwë

[Kent2010]

How about Shasta? I have seen this not-appearing act too many times and he got away with it as a baddie before, we shouldn't keep giving out free passes while we lynch the people who are showing a willingness (maybe regretably) posting.

[Nogrod]

And others as well.

Sorry to play this recklessly, but I thought I needed to get us all some more info about how the baddies work so I have been possibly a culprit for one more inncent's death. That remains to be seen.

But now we have a full second Day data and the end-of-the-Day voting to be read toMorrow where the wolves don't know that one of them was caught already - and hopefully another toMorrow.


So I am your seer and I will give you one ringwraith.


Legate is a ringwraith and should be lynched toMorrow.

I will check Nerwen toNight - the ranger saving me that is. I'm pretty positive I can then give you two ringwraiths toMorrow. I'll explain toMorrow how I found her up.

If the ranger fails, lynch Legate and then continue with that. You will then see, why I was suspecting Sally fex. (Legate held her as a suspect but never took it at heart or did anything to it - but went on consistently after Izzy).

Legate was indeed my dream on Night1 already but I had to keep him at bay - and as it was he, I trusted he wouldn't kill me on the first gameNight. But the coming Night I'm not too positive the "honeymoon" will last - especially as no-one suspects me too much anymore.

Sadly I wasted my other dream on Kath last Night. My first post toDay tells you why I picked her quite straightforwardly. My other candidates for dreaming were Sally, Rune and Eomer. Rune I feel a bit better about now but the other two are harder to say. I hope we have found it out from one of them when you read this or just after it (I'm writing this about half an hour before the DL to be sent at the last minute).


And if you ranger are having any doubts just think whether I as a wolf would like to come up this early trying to fool you? There would be no sense in it as the numbers are still with us the villagers and I'm in no imminent danger of being lynched without a chance to reveal my knowledge (which I'm doing right now).



PS. If at the possible last minute rush you lynched me then look at the people who worked it. And check Nerwen's post where she carefully adds to Legate's innocence with Lhuna still being alive... (I thought of that but I knew Legate is a baddie so I wondered why they left her alive). That's wolf-talk as they must have pondered whether to kill Lhuna or not last Night...

Did they think she was protected last Night or did they think the kill would be too obvious? I could have played it once more for all or nothing as Lhuna hasn't been around but I'm afraid I'm blinking away from that risk. Lhuna might be a wolf as well, that is. So no risks in the end.

[Eönwë]

I know it looks hypocritical especially when I have attacked (well, that's a bit of a strong word) someone when they have done the same. But if you insist...

Nienna - Seems like she's trying to help, but maybe a little false. However she may just not be getting any vibes like me, so I'm not ready to incriminate her yet.
Kent2010 - No idea. Never played with him before. He's doing a good job if he hasn't played WW/Mafia/etc before the Downs.
Legate of Amon Lanc - Mixed. There are many things he says that seem reasonable and helpful, while some things he says just seem a little sinister, but there's nothing I can pin down.
Nogrod - Seems innocent enough, but he's very good at hiding as an evil one.
Shastanis Althreduin - hasn't said much. Not enough for me to say anything on.
wilwarin538 - Seems a little evil. The way she posts
Nerwen - I have no idea. She doesn't speak much.
Nilpaurion Felagund - Just Nilp. However, his list seemed a bit too much, maybe a last-minute bid for survival?
Rune Son of Bjarne - I have no idea. He just comes and goes in waves. A very grey area for me.
Lhunardawen - Seems to be slipping under my radar, but hasn't said anything suspicious. It's probably just because she's being quiet.
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Totally enigmatic as usual. Originally seemed a little evil to me, now he seems more direct and honest. Not sure.
Groin Redbeard - Not spoken.
satansaloser2005 -Seems a little victimised to me. She hasn't really said anything I find suspicious.
Brinniel - Still don't like her vote for Sally. Seems a little evil to me.

[Kent2010]

++Eonwe

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now, one more thing to say - I feel quite somewhat better about Nienna right now, basically because she started to post. People like Shasta though make me slightly uncomfortable, I think there was nothing about Shasta in particular that he would not be able to post toDay, or was it? "Nogrod with human face" or whatever, I'd like people not to hide in the shadows.

[Nogrod]

Shasta would be a good choice as well. But today the wolf tried to kill Eomer - and I'm afraid it was not a buddy on buddy.

[Eönwë]

++Eomer

Best to save an innocent (me)

[Thinlómien]

Stop posting.