Tol-in-Gaurhoth LIV: The Council of Evil

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Why should Gwath have told you not to do it?

To avoid a strawman fallacy.

[Aganzir]

No problem, I just interpreted it that way because no one else had been talking about their activity recently. Besides I wouldn't have been offended by it, I just wouldn't have liked that kind of argument against me.

You could also overreact & be aggresive because you're guilty. There's no way we others can know it. Also, if you're innocent, the best way you can help find the baddies is not making everyone concentrate on you.

[Aganzir]

By the way I just realised ordos are a minority now... There's nine (or seven or eight, however you wish) people alive, two of whom wolves, one bear, and two gifteds.

I try to read through the thread yet again and see if I can find anything that should make me suspicious of sally. Then I want to look through Kath's posts if I only have time.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

No problem, I just interpreted it that way because no one else had been talking about their activity recently. Besides I wouldn't have been offended by it, I just wouldn't have liked that kind of argument against me.

You could also overreact & be aggresive because you're guilty. There's no way we others can know it. Also, if you're innocent, the best way you can help find the baddies is not making everyone concentrate on you.

I don't think your activity is a ploy, and that'll come through in a list post, which I'll do...soon?

What you may not understand is that I am trying find baddies. I'm drawing them out, to see how they reason through my un-reason. Because that's the only way we're going to be able to find them, especially in a quiet game like this. To make ludicrous, outlandish statements to see how others react to them. I have a feeling that someone might have bitten, and it was Gwath who did - he reacted in a way I did not expect. I could not trap him, and he passes that test. Now, I have to spend some time thinking up another Mad Hatter scheme and see who'll bite this time.

(I'm still serious about the self-lynch though. Don't push me too hard.)

x'd with Agan

[Aganzir]

But it's also a possibility you have to bear in mind that an innocent reacts to something weird. Especially in this quiet a village where it may be hard to find some concrete evidence it's too easy to start grasping at straws. Besides, had I been here, I would have reacted pretty much the same way as Gwath.

[Aganzir]

Shame on you whoever killed Boro, reading through day 1 made me miss him!

Anyway if anyone mentioned sally on day 1, it was just stuff like 'where is she?'.

Ha now I actually remembered one thing I had against sally. The seeming randomness of the kills. I can remember an evil sally killing whoever she wants without really caring what they are, killing more on principle than because of what the dead have done during the day. That would fit at least the Nog kill, and to some extent also Boro.
This was the first actual thing that made me suspect sally but then I forgot all about it.

Apart from me, the only one who actually mentioned sally yesterday was Ilya, who said she found her assertions that Nog wouldn't have killed Boro weird. I think she had sally more or less mixed up with me there because I kept saying it much more than sally.

I repeat it once again, but sally seems to be making too much of an issue about the kills. I mean, there are dozens of different options so I'm not sure how much speculation helps us solve anything. However if I speculate myself, I do it mostly just to get my head cleared so I'm not sure how valid a reason that is.

Originally Posted by sally

Why else would someone kill both Boro and Noggie, though? Perhaps an old opponent? As in, someone who is more experienced rather than less, and thus knows exactly how much of a threat those two can be. Still, though, I think someone's trying to make a statement by getting rid of the loudest players.

Today the only one who talked about sally before me was Kath who said she was liking her for now because she actually looked helpful instead of trying to look helpful.

I don't know if I'm just getting paranoid but if sally's a wolf, Kath might be one as well. Because of their interaction. Because of how Kath tries to explain why she wants me to give reasons.

Originally Posted by Kath

Is there any particular reason you would want to lynch sally apart from a bad feeling Agan? Because I'm getting pretty much the opposite feel on her so I'd like to know where your suspicion of her has come from.

Originally Posted by sally

I just can't do anything right in these games, can I?

I'm not overly fond of the look of this comment. If sally's a wolf this would be a reasonable thing to say; it might scare off some suspecters. An innocent sally could say it as well though if she was tired of getting suspected for no reason, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't like it.

Sally you know that I'm going to be terribly awfully sorry if we lynch you now and you turn out to be innocent.

After suspicions against sally had started to pop up, Bowie made a nicely empty statement about her:

Originally Posted by Bowie

Sally isn't very much better. I don't really see the use in posting vote counts at this stage, because of the general lack of votes. I can't be sure if it's a ploy to legitimize yourself, but I'm not going to point any fingers until I see more...anything, really.

So he can decide later if he wants to vote for her or not and can justify his decision based on that post.

Okay so that's it. Quite little interaction with sally. I still couldn't find anything more in her posts that looks very suspicious to me. It's just the feeling.

But don't worry; Lommy once said (when talking about Nog) that when a player gets too good, the only way to spot them is the bad feeling since they rarely leave any obvious wolf traces anymore.

[Meneltarmacil]

I don't really know what to make of sally, but I have noticed an odd tendency in her posts to mention, repeatedly, that she has no idea who the baddies may be. Possibly that Evil Sally can't find anything with which to trip up the innocent, so she just tries to post a lot in order to seem eager to help.

I'm really getting some negative vibes about the arguments between Gwathagor and Strongbow. Their antagonism started early, and over a joke at that. They may well be wolves, making up this disagreement to avoid impressions of being allies. However, between the two, I think Bowie's overdefensiveness makes him the more suspicious one, so

++Strongbow

[Gollum the Great]

Dl in about an hour.....

[Gollum the Great]

DL in 35 minutes and I only have one *beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep* vote! Anybody home?!?!?

Edit: I hope no one was offended....

[Aganzir]

Yeah I'm writing a post.

Currently I think I'm going to vote sally though...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

To avoid a strawman fallacy.

Well, I'm lost now, but I won't press the issue. I am inclined to think that Strongbow is simply an overzealous innocent rather a wolf/bear making a bold bluff. First, he has a tone of righteous irritation that I recognize from some of my own posts of the past, and so I guess I feel some sympathy (as much as I dislike his tactics). Second, I don't think a relatively inexperienced wolf would be quite so prepared to put their neck right on the line as Strongbow has done. A seasoned wolf/bear wouldn't think twice about it, I suppose - ok, wait, I guess he has played Mafia, so maybe he's not as green as I'm painting him. Huh. It doesn't matter, though, I am not going to vote him until I've seen something more substantial.

[Aganzir]

My opinion about Kath will probably pretty much depend on sally's role.

Kath, what gave you the impression I had thought the Gwath/Bowie thing through well?
Also, how did I seem to flip flop apart from changing my opinion about Gwath?
Why did you think that Nog's failure to look involved pointed at his innocence? I think he's equally involved whatever his role, given he has enough time.

Originally Posted by Kath on Boro

"If you are trying to manipulate me so you can devour me at night, I must say it's working." - he says to Agan, could make it easy for her to kill him or again could be someone trying to set her up.

I fail to see how someone could be trying to set me up. Just how could that comment point at me killing him?

I think Gollum told there had been no dream before the game started only on day 2 so the wolves could well think Boro was the seer. Therefore it shouldn't make your thoughts about him wrong.

Kath's attitude towards sally makes me think that if sally's a wolf, Kath might be as well. However even if sally's not a wolf, I find it possible that Kath is one, although then it seems less likely. I don't know.

Apart from this I can't make much of Kath's posts. It's mostly the interaction with sally... See what I mean if I say it's hard to concentrate on anyone else properly as long as sally is alive?

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm voting now.

++sally

I'm so sorry if you're innocent now and I don't feel good doing this but I just can't help suspecting you. I have no serious suspects apart from you and I feel so much will depend on your role.
I'm sorry even if you're a wolf/bear because I know on experience how frustrating it is to be suspected from the very beginning without any reasons but a bad feeling.

[Gollum the Great]

You've got a grand total of 15 minutes.

I've got a grand total of 2 votes.

[Aganzir]

Eek a quick count.

There's nine of us. If we lynch an innocent today and an innocent dies in the night, tomorrow it's four innocents, two wolves and the bear. If also the bear chooses to kill, well... Three and three in the worst case.
Although on the bright side there are still the gifteds...

[Aganzir]

Oh gosh I really wouldn't approve of Bowie getting lynched with one vote now!

[Kath]

Kath, what gave you the impression I had thought the Gwath/Bowie thing through well?

What, yesterDay? I suspect it was because you came to the same opinion as me, that Gwath didn't actually suspect Strongbow.

Also, how did I seem to flip flop apart from changing my opinion about Gwath?

I think that was the only time I thought that you'd switched opinion, it just seemed a very sudden change when I was reading through which is why it jumped out at me. It was also the way you phrased it, I've never been a fan of 'oh yes it was a plan all along' which seemed to be what you were saying.

Why did you think that Nog's failure to look involved pointed at his innocence? I think he's equally involved whatever his role, given he has enough time.

I believe a wolvish Nog would fight for a win.

Oh flip I didn't see the time!

++AGAN

Basically because she's the only person I've found anything suspicious in. The switch on Gwath yesterDay, the fact that I disagree with her about so many things.

[Kath]

Bum I think that was a throwaway vote, I didn't realise it was only between sally and Strongbow.

[Aganzir]

I usually don't consider trying to get some talk a plan. I said it was more of an attempt to get talk than an actual suspicion, ie I wouldn't vote Gwath because of some day 1 beginning banter. I'm getting tired of repeating this you know.

[Gwathagor]

Ok, folks.

Well, I was about to vote Isabellkya with the reasoning that she's probably the bear, but then it occurred to me that the bear could just as easily be another player trying to cast suspicion on the less involved players by not killing. So never mind.

[Aganzir]

Gwath if you're undecided could you please vote sally, I don't know what I'm going to do if I have to concentrate on her still tomorrow.

[satansaloser2005]

Three options.


Agan: Still think she's innocent, but definitely misguided

Sally: Right. Like I"d nilp myself.


So....and I'm sorry honey.....


++Bowie

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

I

What you may not understand is that I am trying find baddies. I'm drawing them out, to see how they reason through my un-reason. Because that's the only way we're going to be able to find them, especially in a quiet game like this. To make ludicrous, outlandish statements to see how others react to them. I have a feeling that someone might have bitten, and it was Gwath who did - he reacted in a way I did not expect. I could not trap him, and he passes that test. Now, I have to spend some time thinking up another Mad Hatter scheme and see who'll bite this time.

Oh wow, I just saw this. Interesting.

[Eönwë]

I don't really want to vote Sally or Strongbow, as the Day's are quiet enough as they are, but with Gwathagor being the only other option for me (and I want to see more of him before I pass judgement I'm thinking that maybe they're the only way to go.

ok,

++Sally

edit: No! No! My clock is off!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Gwath if you're undecided could you please vote sally, I don't know what I'm going to do if I have to concentrate on her still tomorrow.

I'm sorry, I don't suspect her! I can't do it. Heck, right now, the closest thing I've got to a suspect is Isabellkya, who I think is the bear. And even that's a case that's full of holes.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I was away and not able to read a whole lot of the latest posts, for which I apologize. Fortunately I didn't die toDay, so (hopefully) I'll be around toMorrow to help.


Again, Bowie, I'm sorry, but I wasn't going to widen the vote scope any further, it's just not right, and of the three of us you were my best choice. If you're innocent I'm truly sorry. (But I hope you're not. )

[Aganzir]

I don't know if these still count but if they do could you Gwath please vote sally

edit: xed oh well

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't know if these still count but if they do could you Gwath please vote sally

edit: xed oh well

Agan dear, the Day is over. And I'm not dead. I hate to disappoint you, but I plan on staying around for a while longer. (As long as the wolves don't kill me, anyway)

[Aganzir]

It's just that if both sally and I are still alive tomorrow, it's going to be pretty much wasted for me as I'm just after her all the time...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It's just that if both sally and I are still alive tomorrow, it's going to be pretty much wasted for me as I'm just after her all the time...

Then concentrate on someone else, love. Or at least come up with something better than 'she feels funny, everyone KEEL her!' That's all I ask.

[Aganzir]

Sorry I just can't. I can't help this.

[Gollum the Great]

Stop posting. Just a few minutes...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Sorry I just can't. I can't help this.

It's okay. Happens to the best of us.

*hugs you*

Now then, it's time for all the good children to be 'sleeping' so Master Gollum can tell us what our dearly departed Bowie did in his spare time.


EDIT: x'd with the modly one. Sorry!

[Gwathagor]

Well...looks like I'm not voting toDay. I apologize for not being able to make up my mind.

[Gollum the Great]

And at the conclusion of the third day, The Balrog Strongbow was selected for elimination. He jumped upon the council table and whirled his whip around, and the flaming streaks seemed to form alphabetical characters in the air. He snorted black and red bolts from his nose drew his spiked mace.

"I cannot read the fiery letters," said Aganzir in a quavering voice.

"No," said Strongbow, "but I can. They run in an ancient script from years past, designed by Gothmog Lord of Balrogs. This is a rough translation: 'I can't believe you let a good Balrog down.' Our version is, as you probably know, is much more refined and more interesting. And now," he continued, as Gwathagor twitched a little nervously and Sally, Eonwe, and Meneltarmacil stepped forward, ready for combat, "for a little action."

He brought the mace down on Meneltarmacil's head, stunning the dragon but not piercing the scales. Simultaneously he made leap for the gateway and curled the thongs of his whip about Eonwe's ankles, causing him to fall. He began to run down the passage to the exit, but a blur of grey flew through the room and landed on his back. Aganzir tore out the back his neck and lava-ized blood spurted about in great quantities. The wolf dropped to the stone floor and rolled over and over, putting out the inevitable fires in his fur.

"I hope I did well," gasped Aganzir.

"You have not done so," choked out Strongbow, somehow surviving, "but I do not think you are a traitor. Few in your place would risk a deed like that for the Council out of hate or fear or inducements even from a master as powerful as the one here...."

And the loyal Balrog expired.


Living:

Aganzir
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Isabellkya
Kath
Meneltarmacil
Sally
Shasta

Dead/gone:

Ilya (inno)
Nogrod (inno)
Boro (inno)
Brinn (inno)
Strongbow (inno)

[Gollum the Great]

As the Council met for the fourth time, a captain of the guard awaited them with an unfortunate story.

As he was on his night watch, the orc observed the Dragon Meneltarmacil exit his lair and sneak in the direction of another Councilor's chamber (which particular one, the guard could not recall). After Meneltarmacil had spied on this person and muttered; "So, he is no traitor," two dark forms had appeared suddenly, silently behind him and skewered him with long, dripping blades, and then they carried the body back to his cave.

And so the remains were discovered. Two heavy, iron blades doused with venom were thrust through body, and the dragon's secrets were lost.

Alive:

Aganzir
Eonwe
Gwathagor
Isabellkya
Kath
Sally
Shasta

Dead/Gone:

Boro (inno)
Brinn (inno)
Ilya (inno)
Menel (seer)
Nog (inno)
Strongbow (inno)

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, since the dead aren't being posted in chronological order, I'm getting all messed up. Sorry, I know, I'm a dork, but I'm going to post the conventional way so I'll have it as a reference. Please excuse my idiocy. *big ditzy grin*

Dead:
Brinn (innocent) [Day 1]
Boro (innocent) [Night 1]
Ilya (innocent) [Day 2]
Nog (innocent) [Night 2]
Bowie (innocent) [Day 3]
Menel (seer) [Night 3]


Okay, with that out of the way I'm going to go look at our dearly departed Menel's posts.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and am I correct that neither Gwath nor Shasta will be in toDay? Because if so that leaves Kath, Agan, Eon, and myself, as Izzy hasn't shown up all game. This concerns me. Seriously, guys, not to be a jerk but look at the post count.

Agan: 64
Sally: 32
Bowie: 30
Gollum: 20
Boro: 17
Gwath: 17
Eön: 15
Noggie: 12
Kath: 10
Menel: 9
Brinn: 5
Ilya: 5
Shasta: 1
Izzy: 0

The italicized players aren't even alive anymore (or they're the mod lol) but most of the dead players have more posts than the living members. I know a lot of you guys are busy or are having internet trouble, but it still worries me.

EDIT: Obviously I'm going to have 33 posts now, not 32, but I'm lazy. Now onto other things.

[Aganzir]

Ouchouchouch.

Obviously the wolves are better than me because I didn't spot Menel. Maybe because I kept myself too busy trying to look like the seer myself.

So it's two wolves, bear, hunter, and three ordos now, and probably only four are getting online today. It makes it more difficult for us that we can't find out Izzy's role (is there any chance she be modfired?), or Shasta's (as long as he can't play) so we don't know how many baddies we actually need to find or how bad our situation really is.

I am the hunter.

Thought you could do with one known innocent now.

I'm dead tired so I apologize and go to sleep without being of any help. I'm also not sure how much online time I can find tomorrow as I'm seeing a friend I don't meet very often, but I'll try to be here as long as I can.

I'm still rather suspicious of sally and still for no reason.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I am the hunter.

Thought you could do with one known innocent now.

I thought so~! (Well, I thought you were innocent anyway. Now I'm even more glad that I didn't vote for you yesterDay, although depending on who you picked you may have taken a wolf with you.)


Okay, with that information, I think I can safely say....that I still don't have much of an idea what's going on. My internet's going kind of haywire this evening, so I gave up on posting for a bit, which is why I haven't posted about Menel, but I'll do my best.


No, Agan, don't leave me!!!!

:P