Admin thread to WW XXX - Tol-in-Elendili - The Isle of the Were-Faithfuls

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mith

No but you may get called Rasputin.....

Now, that would make for an interesting narration ...

I've got to go now. It looks like the decision has been made but, if not, I am happy with whatever Mac decides.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mith

Or the Teflon SaucepanMan

Even better. You are on sparkling form.

Bye for now.

[Mithalwen]

You may even get your own cartoon series in "The Downer" ..... Over to you, Mr the Goomba

[Nogrod]

I was just speaking with Lommy on the phone as I told her what happened.

She wished me to bring forwards her idea as she has no net access herself right now.

Maybe both tgwbs and Spm are lynched and as a compensation the Faithfuls will get two kills this Night.

-----

I do appreaciate your stance here tgwbs! You're a good sport.

[Nogrod]

Just to make sure.

That was Lommy's idea which she wished myself to bring forwards in here.

I think it not advisable to go on speculating about the merits or dismerits of it in here but let Macalaure consider it if he wishes...

[Macalaure]

Thanks for the jellybabies! Especially since digital jelly doesn't cause allergies.

I'm too scatterbrained right now to put up the proper narration, so I'll do that tomorrow. The guy who be short will die alone (plus, most probably, Mänwe).

Porcupines? Probably not. I hope it will be funny nevertheless - I think my narration will feature a.... let's just give so much away: It would be much more funny if Boro was playing.

Once more: I'm terribly sorry.

*keeps on slamming his head on the desk*


Concerning Lommy's idea: Sounds nice, but I would prefer to handle it with bringing as few 'speciality' into the game as possible. That's also the reason why I'm not fond of the triple-lynch.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Concerning Lommy's idea: Sounds nice, but I would prefer to handle it with bringing as few 'speciality' into the game as possible. That's also the reason why I'm not fond of the triple-lynch.

Better keep it as simple as possible. I do agree.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Porcupines? Probably not. I hope it will be funny nevertheless - I think my narration will feature a.... let's just give so much away: It would be much more funny if Boro was playing.

.

Oh go on..tell us how.....

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Oh go on..tell us how.....

Mith, dear, haven't you ever seen this? How uncivilised!

I'm honoured to substitute Boro.

EDIT: This link contains language that some downers may find offensive...be warned.

[Mithalwen]

Ahh ..I understand.. that is very funny if somewhat uncouth...

[Macalaure]

Here's more of the kind (much more family-friendly ):

Mortor

Catapult?

Trebuchet!

[Mithalwen]

Ah well the SpM's death was a cultural reference that I got....(and love)..just wish you had given me a false beard ......

[Macalaure]

The start of toDay might come with a little delay, due to a possible RL interference.

[Thinlómien]

If I'm still alive on Day6 my participation will be even lesser than now, since it's the weekend and I don't have a net access home (and I'm not going to go to Noggie's place this weekend). I promise to try to get to a library, but that means just one visit from me, max. 2 hours online and presumably nowhere close to the deadline (the libraries close quite early and the deadline is 11pm my time)...

[Mithalwen]

Err I probably won't be around either ..I will try to check in but I have an Australian "cousin" (her grandmother's sister was married to my grandmother's brother - so we have cousins in common) visiting unexpectedly......

[Kath]

So I woke up this morning and went: 'oh I'm dead, well that's lucky since I'm busy today' and toddled off to exams and bake sales ... without ever once looking at the thread! I didn't KNOW I was dead, I hadn't seen it in words until literally 10 minutes ago, I just assumed I was!

Sorry, I know the dead don't speak, but I just had to share that. Weird no?

[Gil-Galad]

urrgh the cut off came way sooner then i thought... i couldn't do anything... bah humbug...

[Durelin]

Apologies to everyone - I will be gone much of the day tomorrow (RL), and may not be back before the deadline. Basically I'll be around (though probably on and off) for the first seven hours of the Day (game), and that might be it. So I will be voting quite early, unfortunately.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I'm working much later tomorrow at the bookshop wot i work in. So, I'll do my best to get a post or two in but I make no promises.

[Macalaure]

I have a confession to make.

After seven days and fifteen narrations, I'm slowly but surely running out of ideas for them.

All wishes or suggestions (that fit the theme) are welcome. Please pm me if you can think of something funny or gruesome. It will be greatly appreciated.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

I think I should die in a blaze of glory.

Fire is always a good way to go.

Sorry for not posting, my computer clock reads 8:20 at the moment and I'm going to have to change it. I don't know why it's gone nearly an hour slow... It's annoying.

[Macalaure]

Not exactly a blaze of glory, but I hope you like it anyway.


Concluding I can say that this is, by far, the longest admin thread ever.

[the guy who be short]

Hooray!

Well played, Durelin and Legate! Incredible skill, considering it was Legate's first time, and the pressure Durelin was under.

As is traditional, I shall now reveal some of the wolves' thoughts. This will be abridged, seeing as we have about 40 pages of PMs on microsoft word.

No Night 1, either, seeing as that's just banter.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

How frustrating. It seems that even in death I manage to ruin it for the ordos.

I don't expect I will be playing WW again for a while, though.

[Roa_Aoife]

Now that I may speak again, I would like to apologize to everyone, especially Manwe, for my post-death behavior on Day 3. I mistakenly took Manwe's first post as an insult and smear against two people that I hold in very high regard, both as players and as friends. I reacted poorly and with little thought. I was wrong to pm Manwe, and the wrong was doubled by the content of the message. Further more, I was wrong to respond to him on the Admin thread. What I did was against the rules, against the best interest of he game, and simply rude and thoughtless.

I hope I can be forgiven, and that the whole thing can be put behind us.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Wow, this was so great! Great, great experience Macalaure, of course partially because it was my first game, but also your narrations were really funny and mainly I owe you thanks for that I had even the opportunity to play! And, not forgeting that you gave me the possibility to take the role of a Were-Faithful... I guess playing an ordo would be interesting as well, but I am 100% happy with the role I had.

Also, I would like to thank to all my wonderful were-colleagues, who made a great team and I really enjoyed plotting alongside them. And of course all the other villagers who participated, even a little bit, because I really enjoyed this game and you were all just fantastic folks! Well, I don't know how you who play for a long time felt when you first played it, but if you remember it and it was great, then this is how I feel now I must say that this game was just wonderful from start till the (victorious! Yay!) end.

Being it the first time for me to play Werewolf, I must say I wasn't as active as I could because I really wasn't familiar yet with all the mechanisms of the game and I was more careful than I would probably be when playing an ordo. I was worried that I might screw it up for my more experienced colleagues.

Once more great great thanks to every single one of you for participating, it was wonderfully amusing to play with you. Special thanks from the Faithful team (right?) to Tar-Roa for her great (and amusing!) play. Special thanks from me to Lalaith for trusting me in the last day so genuinely

And Hookbill (and all the newbies; Brinniel, I still feel somehow guilty of participating on your lynch, because you were right about me and I should be lynched instead of you), do not let it break your spirit. You were great asset even though you participated but a little.

Here, take this memorial plaquette (and the others might as well).

I made this to express my gratitude to all of you, both the players and the Mod, and to dedicate this to the memory of this game. Thanks once again!

...wow, that was something like a speech...

[Lalaith]

Lalaith for trusting me in the last day so genuinely

That will do, young master Legate. Gloating is not nice.

Gah. Apart from you, I had them all spotted.

[the guy who be short]

Well, this is going to be interesting reading, because this was such a crazy game. Here's why we went for Rikae, and failed, that first day:

Here are the individuals that your Queen Tar-Míriel currently thinks is you:

Nogrod
Legate of Amon Lanc
Brinniel
Durelin (Mac)

Obviously we don't waste our time with Rikae (though if I were the Ranger I'd fake the wolves out and not protect her until the next Night...woops, I didn't tell you that...), but I say we pick off Lommy or Mith because people like to think they're innocent. (durelin)

The good news is, we know the Seer, which is the best we could have hoped for. As Durelin said, I think it would be hazard from the Ranger not to try to protect her, so should we reserve her for another day? On the double trick: Hazard it would be, but it depends on who the Ranger is, if he would even dare to perform such thing. No, I think it's better not to be concerned with that at all.

If we are not attempting to kill Rikae, is there anyone you have a particular aim against? Or should we bring down someone less important this time?

And last, any possible idea of Tar-Míriel's identity? And what do you think we should do with that he/she thinks two of us as Faithful? This, I think, also means more people might be inclined to think what the Cobbler thinks, unfortunately for us. (legate)

More like "whew!" from me!

That was … pretty intense.

You three played the Day wonderfully. I myself played it … well … pretty badly, I think.

I am not quite sure why both Roa and Nogrod saw fit to go after me with such gusto. My orginal comment which led to it all was, I thought, really rather innocuous. Indeed, I found myself rather frustrated with Roa in particular for going for me with such certainty on such spurious (to my mind) grounds. Before I saw Rikae’s revelation (just now, after the Day‘s end), I had Roa pegged as a Seer who had dreamed of me on Night 1.

All in all, I think it better to assume that the Ranger will protect Rikae tonight. My immediate reaction for an alternative target is either Roa or Nogrod. It is no disrespect, I think, to any of our players to note that, on past form, they are most probably among our our most dangerous adversaries. And I do wonder whether her defence of my "case" against Nogrod was grounded in more than blind trust (a rare thing for one such as Roa). Are they perhaps the Ranger and Hunter partnership?

Pros of killing Roa: We get rid of a dangerous adversary and I get her off my back. Possibly, we kill a Gifted.

Cons of killing Roa: It points to me. if she is the Hunter, she will probably take me with her.

As for our Queen’s list, it looks like we have a pretty astute Cobbler. Two out of four ain’t at all bad on Day 1. Hence my feeling that it might be Mith. (SpM [Couldn't you guess by the length?])

At any rate, the only people who I think seriously considered you were Roa and Nogrod, and though they can certainly sway people in many respects, you're a prominent werewolfer and swayer, as well. So it's a little harder to get people to see you as guilty...well, at least not until a little later in the game.

I think passing the slight chance of getting Rikae tonight is a good idea. Any kill is better than no kill.

I did consider the possibility of killing Roa and going for the double-bluff, but I was far from sure you'd want to risk it. I also considered the idea of Roa being the Cobbler, because actually I think she's acting like I would as Cobbler - making very assured accusations and sticking with them pretty much no matter what...and be overly sarcastic.

I agree that the Cobbler could be Mith or Lalaith, so for now let's scratch them off the list?

But you bring up a important thing to consider, SPM - who Rikae might dream of tonight. Killing off ahead of time the person she dreams of would be nice and convenient. Of course, that might involve a gamble we don't need or want to risk. Manwe is a good possibility, so is Nogrod, I think... (durelin)

The Cobbler is either a lucky guesser or rather astute. I tend to think the latter. I don't think it should concern you and Legate too much, though. There were hardly any accusations against either of you during the Day, and Legate's main accuser is now departed.

Agreed. Although let's hope that the Ranger doesn't take the gamble and protect our chosen alternative.

You know, re-reading the thread last night, I became increasingly convinced of the possibility of Roa being the Cobbler. It would possibly explain her defence of Nogrod (if she thought him a Faithful) and her antagonism towards me (if she thought me innocent). Going back through her analysis of me, it is not at all up to her ususal standard - she twists my words.

I propose that we kill Nogrod. (SpM)

I think it's time that those who might be labelled as posting without saying much came under some pressure, so I'll be looking in that direction toMorrow. After all, it's not something that any of us are doing. Holby and Kath spring to mind

So, Nogrod seems a distinct possibility for toNight's kill. How about you, TGWBS? Happy with that, or would you prefer to consider alternatives? (spM)

There's a branch of maths, game theory, dedicated to winning games. And one of the key ideas on how to win is that you should not try to maximize gain, but minimize loss.

Now, we can either go for Rakae today or tomorrow.

If we go for her today, the worst possible scenario, that is the greatest loss, is that she's protected by the Ranger. This means no kill for us, and Rakae tells people about her dream. We then kill her next night. So we get 0 kills, the innocents get 1 innocent's name, Seer dies night 3.

If we go for her next night, the greatest loss is that she's protected then. This means we get a kill tonight, but the Seer lives until night 4 and reveals 2 innocents. This is far worse for us.

By the above logic, we should go for the Seer as soon as possible, i.e. tonight. She is our main threat, and her removal should be our priority. (TGWBS [Sorry for misspelling, Rikae!])

I take your point, but shouldn't we also factor in the greater likelihood that the Ranger will play conservatively in order to guarantee the certainty of the Seer for a further Day, and so protect Rikae toNight? (SpM)

I think it's impossible to assign a probability to the ranger protecting Rakae tonight or next night. Certainly it must be one of the two, but it all depends on who the Ranger is and how willing they are to take risks.

I don't see that a "no kill" tonight would be damaging. The Might and Holbytlass are both being withdrawn tonight anyway.

Also, a great advantage of a (potential) kill tonight is that there will be no known innocents. (TGWBS)

OK, you've convinced me. I'm in. What about the others? (SpM)

Okay, so you are suggesting to go after Rikae in the end? Well, the same thoughts like TGWBS posted occured to me before, but since Durelin suggested not to complicete it, I didn't. It is however fact that it is safer to attack Rikae tonight than to risk losing tomorrow and having to attack the day after that. And also, when TM and Holby are out, I think we can actually consider it as if we killed two people!

Okay, if all of you agree to go after Rikae, then --Nogrod, +++Rikae (Legate)

As I said in my last PM, I'm up for either one. And I said from the beginning that a tricksy Ranger might skip protecting her toNight so he/she could next Night, and if simple me can think of that, then anyone can. So, we might as well go for it. (durelin)

Only one other point why not try to kill Rikae, but Nogrod tonight is, that if we kill Nogrod, we'll show the cobbler the correct way (Nog is highest on the list). (Legate)

I think going after Rikae toNight, even if we don't get her, will at least confuse people a bit. I think the natural tendency is to assume the wolves won't "risk" passing by a kill. (durelin)

I am planning to maintain my position that Manwe is most probably a "blundering innocent", and I will probably be examining those who strongly accused or voted for him yesterDay (which will include one or two of you, but that's no bad thing) (spM)

Well... that's a thoroughly abridged version! The full thing runs to 13 pages. But it was me who managed to convince the others to go for Rikae.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Gah. Apart from you, I had them all spotted.

Guess how I was screaming to my computer screen when no one seemed to pay the attention your points merited!

[Nogrod]

Thanks tgwbs for the interesting read - even if and because of being abridged! That explained a lot.

[Lalaith]

In answer to your query, Noggie, about which thread, I think this one so everyone can be sure to admire Legate's beautiful tribute.

You know, I was thinking, there's a Fenris club, we should also have a little club for Seers who are forced to out themselves on the first day because they're about to be lynched. Rikae and I both qualify.

What could we call ourselves? The Cassandras, perhaps.

[the guy who be short]

See, Mr Nogrod? Maths is your enemy!

[Roa_Aoife]

So, at last, you can find out what I was thinking with all th crazy playing.

Defense of Nogrod/ attack of SPM? To tell the truth, I was fairly certain Nogrod was innocent by the end of Day 1, and I was positive SPM was guilty by the start of Day 2. However, as cobbler, I needed a way to let the wolves know who I was with out tipping off the rest of the village. I couldn't put a hint in my post- it was too much of a risk that someone else would pick it up. I decided that the best way was to vehemently defend someone on Day 1, and put that person at the top of the list that would be sent to wolves. Incredibly obvious for them, but no one else would be any the wiser. I wasn't concerned about SPM geting lynched on the chance that he was a faithful- has he ever been lynched on Day 1? Note, that after a slight mention of my suspicion against him in the beginning of Day 2, and an accusation when he instantly jumped on the "Let's kill Roa" bandwagon, I pretty much dropped my case against him. I took Durelin's "Roa's analysis are helpful and not suspicious in the least," as affirmation that the Faithful had gotten the message.

Besides, going after SPM like that was fun. He's got to be if not the most than one of the most challenging Day-time prey in the first few Days of the game.

Day 2 and all the analysis- note that I found almost everyone slightly suspicious. It was, as some guessed, a giant smoke screen meant to confuse and point everyone in any direction that they wanted to go. As Nogrod said, anyone can be painted black, and if you have one person already pointing suspicion in the direction you were leaning, then it's that much easier to be fooled by it.

(Also, I did agree with all the points Legate made, and I meant it when I said he reminded me of me in my first game. I just meant my first game as a wolf. )

After Rikae came out with her revelations, I didn't really believe that I ever had a chance of surviving. It was fine for me, since as Mith pointed out the village would be at a disadvantage numerically. When I read Rikae's post revealing me, I thought about just accepting my fate and then flooding the post with nonsense, but then I remember that I never do that, and so I decided to go down kicking and screaming. Again, I never expected SPM or Rikae to be lynched in my place, I just wanted to draw as much attention to myself and the debate as possible. In the end, I just wanted Day 2 to be wasted.

And for future notice, I think I may start avoiding games with seers. I just can't get away from that.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

See, Mr Nogrod? Maths is your enemy!

Seeing as how it saved his life on Night 2, I'd say Math is his friend.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Seeing as how it saved his life on Night 2, I'd say Math is his friend.

And with a tactical Ranger I could have made it one more Day... and all the other "buts" included...

But tgwbs I appreciated the way you twisted maths to your side in the game! I just tried to fight back...

And anyhow. I hope Kath was the only one who didn't read my post #468. So my last Day's half-aggressive tenor was nothing more than a tactical stance to provoke reactions. It turned out quite a silent Day then and only the Faithfuls (basically) commented before the last hours when I had already kind of pulled away from that accusatory tone. So that was a trick enabled by my known innocence, not my way of playing this game anymore. Although I remember to have played much more aggressively in some of my first games...



Wishing to include this too, just to gloat a bit...

Originally Posted by the cunning Faithful SPm to his comrades

You know, re-reading the thread last night, I became increasingly convinced of the possibility of Roa being the Cobbler. It would possibly explain her defence of Nogrod (if she thought him a Faithful) and her antagonism towards me (if she thought me innocent).

Originally Posted by Spm in the game #336

However, I do believe that she thought Nogrod to be a Faithful and me to be an innocent (so she got one thing right ).

Originally Posted by by me in the game #350

Funny. I had just the oppositie impression... and I even think I would have grounds for it based on general Cobblery and some knowledge of the ways Roa works...

Originally Posted by Roa the Cobbler

To tell the truth, I was fairly certain Nogrod was innocent by the end of Day 1, and I was positive SPM was guilty by the start of Day 2. However, as cobbler, I needed a way to let the wolves know who I was with out tipping off the rest of the village.

[Durelin]

Yay!!! First time's a charm?!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mac! Awesome game!

Nogrod - You still were being illogical.

Amazing job, my comrades! SPM - I almost wish we had made a bigger scene of that spat, for the heck of it, but I guess that would have been a little...obvious.

TGWBS - You stay way too cool under pressure. It amazes me!

Legate - Brilliant! I have full confidence that if I had gone much earlier, you would have made it to the end yourself.

Awesome job, Gifteds...we were pretty much clueless who you were the entire time.

That was the most stressful thing I have done in a while...

If anyone's interested, I can post an abridged version of Legate's and my plotting those last Nights we were but two.

[the guy who be short]

This is all you're getting from me for a while. I need sleep.

This Night was less interesting, obviously, because we had to go after Rikae.

Well, I think our kill is obvious - we go for Rikae again, and we know we have her.

And I'm very glad we were right on Roa. I'm sorry if voting for her along with two of you is a problem, but I must say it is what I would have done as an innocent.

Anyone look like a Gifted to anyone? Mith was acting very strange near the end there, but who knows. (durelin)

But though Roa was in so bad situation, she played it rather well, did she?

tgwbs, if it would be possible, I'd go with you tomorrow against Brinniel, pretending I thought of it and she seems strange. If we could get Rune convinced to it (and perhaps someone else), it'd be good.

But to what concerns me the most now (since it touches mainly me, of course) - Rikae did the retract of Mith and voted for me, unknown reason which even I don't get (legate)

I rather wish that she had toned down her attack on me (which rather put me in the spotlight) and her "love-fest" with Legate (which could cause him problems toMorrow). Still, flooding the thread with her analysis was a good move, since it made a fair few quite defensive and her situation did rather dominate the Day's debate to our advantage.

And I don't regard Roa's death as a setback at all. She is there to sacrifice herself for us.

It looks like, having shaken Roa off, Nogrod is now on my case. Since he is a proven innocent, that might be problematic for me. But he has yet to explain his case

I agree with Legate that there is scope for racking up suspicion against both Lommy and Brinniel toMorrow

No idea where Mithalwen's case against me came from. Again, it is unexplained. However, her efforts to save Roa might be used to beat her with a bit. (SpM)

I too think Roa did an excellent job as Tar-Miriel. A whole day wasted! I can't believe any villagers actually considered believing her act.

I believe that if SpM manages to live through tomorrow, he'll be lucky. My defending SpM may bring suspicion upon me. I cannt now go back on it. But if it looks bad for him, and if he agrees, I think Legate and especially durelin should consider voting SpM.

My plans for tomorrow are thus:

Attack all those who voted for Roa or considered believing her. This is how I will bring pressure on Legate and durelin. However, I will emphasize the votes of those who are not Faithful (obviously).

I will also add this advantage we have: The villagers were as blind today, and will be as blind tomorrow, as they were on day 1. We didn't manage a kill last night and tonight we're killing Rikae, the obvious choice. This means people can't analyse who we kill and trace it back to us. Accusations remain somewhat wild (TGWBS)

My plan is (time permitting) to try and get back into my more traditional analysis role. No one has really done a proper analysis of the votes yet, so I’ll be looking at that. I’ll also be considering what Roa’s analyses might tell the village and putting some pressure on those who shyed away from voting for her.

Not fully decided on my main targets. On the one hand, I am inclined to go for Rune and Kitanna – for casting doubt on Manwe and then withdrawing on Day 1 and generally for relatively content-free contributions.

The other possibility is a strong attack on Mithalwen, as there is definitely material there, particularly given her attempt to orchestrate Roa’s continued survival at my expense. (SpM)

Other than that...I think Lommy is a good option, and I always go after Kath, so I might do that as well.

Well, can't think of much else to discuss, other than possible Gifteds. I agree Mith's behavior was strange. Might get her lynched

Oh, another thing about Lommy...if it's accurate to say that she seems "edgy," there might be a possibility of Giftedness. (durelin)

About the Gifteds - Mith&Lommy seem strange

I was checking this. So, this far, who CANNOT be the pair (because they accuse each other):
Brinniel with Hookbill, Rune or Thin;
Kitanna with Mänwe or Thin;
Lalaith with Mith or Nogrod;
Mänwe with Kitanna, Nogrod or Rune;
Mithalwen with Lalaith;
Nogrod with Lalaith, Mith or Thin;
Rune with Mänwe;
Thin with Brinniel, Kitanna or Nogrod.

WHOM I FIND LIKELY:
Nogrod-Kath/Nogrod-Kitanna (legate)

Very much compressed from 11 pages.

[Macalaure]

That's a beautiful picture, Legate. Thanks!

This was one rollercoaster of a game, I think. There were completely silent and completely hectic phases, at some times it seemed like you're having the Faithfuls by their necks, and some times where all were completely confused. It was great fun to follow!

Kudos to especially Durelin and Legate. An excellent showcase of looking innocent! It was quite thrilling to see how Durelin re-gained everybody's trust by the wolf-on-wolf action with the Saucepan Man. That was great Werewolf.

You were so lucky with your hunter-kill of Lommy, though.

Thanks for liking my modding and the narrations. Once again, sorry for that darn mistake...


And I second the introduction of the Cassandra Seer!

[Durelin]

Can you believe we wanted to avoid the hunter...

[Macalaure]

Oh, and before I forget, a great Thank You! to everybody who played. Many people who originally would have preferred to skip the game due to lack of time signed up because they received one of a busload of PMs I sent around while originally having 7 players after two weeks of waiting. I feel honoured by you. Suddenly I had twenty players and a really long game. If Lommy had been successful, this game could have been the first one (I think) to extend to nine days. Wow!

Thanks to everybody, and especially those who took part because I asked them to.