The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread

[One of the Nine]

How the wargs were made is a good question. I've heard many a folk tale and many a rumor in my recent travelings, and I do believe that Diamond18 has everything almost correct. One thing I have to add to this unfortunate tale is that one of the wargs did not cower in fear, however, he went away, thus avoiding the punishment of having to struggle. There was another with him, who he taught to banish the bad from his life, and they traveled together. They discovered a multitude of wonderful things, but no man or elf etc... would give them the time of day to discuss it. They would sooner just kill them. But there was someone who listened, and listened very well. His name is Morgoth, and he listened to everything the poor deceived wargs had to say. And then, after having milked them for all the knowledge he could get, he killed them with poisoned rabbit. He then set out, corrutpting the whole world that is Ea. This is how the last of the pure wargs came to an end.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

It certainly explains a lot. Any idea who devised this legend, Diamond?

I believe it was a Wargish scholar in the Third Age, by the name if Dir Te'Harre.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My goodness One of the Nine, that is a conclusion rife with despair. It pains me to think that it could end that way. I suppose that it is in keeping with the melancholy of Tolkien's legendarium though.

Can you tell us which people foretold this final doom of Wargs? Probably Men I would think, they are always thriving on the tales of dastardly Wargs.



Edit to add; Diamond, that is either a hoax, or a very unfortunate coincidence!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

....by a forgotten Hobbit known only as Conor.




Well they're sure keen on dancin'
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made
When they act big doors open
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made
So let's party, Rosie Cotton
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made

Oh how the Sun sets on the Tower Hills,
But leaves quite a shadow to fill

Oh the death of a fast life
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got to pay
That's some will you've been drinking
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got to pay

So look closer, do you still think that
Those Evendim Wargs, those Evendim Wargs got it made?

[SamwiseGamgee]

That's quite a song, Eomer. It does, however, sound strangely reminiscent of some song I can't quite put my finger on. I imagine some scoundrel has changed the song and taken credit for it. If I ever find that mischievous cretin I shall skin him like a giant auk!

[SamwiseGamgee]

After much research I have managed to uncover a couple more songs regarding wargs. Enjoy.

Paranoid Warg
Please could you stop the noise, I'm trying to get some rest
From all the unborn orcish voices in my head
What's that...?
What's that...?

When I’m dark lord, you will be first against the wall
With your ent who is of no consequence at all
What's that...?
What's that...?

Pipeweed makes you look pretty ugly
Kicking and squealing fat little hobbit
You don't remember
You don't remember
Why don't you remember my name?
Off with his head, man
Off with his head, man
Why don't you remember my name? I guess he does...

Snow down, snow down
Come on snow down on me
From Caradhras
FromCaradhras...
Snow down, snow down
Come on snow down on me
From Caradhras
From Caradhras...
Snow down, snow down
Come on snow down on me

That's it, elf
You're leaving
The crackle of manflesh
The dust and the screaming
The Rohirrim networking
The panic, the vomit
The panic, the vomit
Wargs love their children, wargs love their children, yeah!

Stairway to Wargy
There's a hobbit who's sure all that glitters is gold
And he's buying a stairway to Wargy.
When he gets there he knows, if the stores are all closed
With a word he can get what he came for.
Ooh, ooh, and he's buying a stairway to Wargy.

There's a sign on the wall but he wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are of wargs.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who standing looking.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And it's whispered that soon if we all call the tune
Then Wargy will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long
And the wargs will echo with laughter.

If there's a warg in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just killing an innocent passer by.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know,
Wargy’s calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the warg howl, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the breast of Wargy.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a warg who we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And he's buying a stairway to Wargy.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

One of the hazier days on the Zep tourbus I suppose....

[SamwiseGamgee]

I would suggest perhaps the greatest day on the Zep tourbus- the day Wargy was recognised in fair song!
How was your History of wargs exam, Eomer?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think it went rather well, certainly better than the first time around. I answered questions on the following subjects;

* Charles I and the theory that Wargs were to blame for his downfall.

* The French Revolution and the failed attempt of the Wargs to stop 'The Terror'.

*The rise to power of Lenin (who was, of course, tutored by a Warg).


There was an unsavoury moment after the exam however, as another student spotted me with my copy of The Lord of the Rings and promptly gave me a verbal battering for reading 'such junk' (I swear, that's what he said). Needless to say I went for him as swiftly as a crebain from Dunland, my hands around his neck before he could squeal his apologies. We were separated by the mob of students around us, and in the ensuing melee, I escaped and boarded the first plane to Japan.

I guess you also have a tale to tell regarding your exam, which also featured Wargs Samwise.

[Sleepy Ranger]

I can not believe I have never seen this thread before. I must now after going over your readings, say that I am not much compared to the rest of you in Warg Knowledge but I have done my fair share of reasearch on wargs and have gone on many expeditions (recorded and unrecorded) to seek out legendary wargs. On my last trip some two weeks back, I had a chance of visiting some of the forests of India and there hoped to spot and study The White-Bengali Warg. After hearing many tales about these legendary wargs I was all the more eager to encounter one of these. It took 5 days before we reached the spot where these wargs are generally seen and upon reaching there, I was left in awe by their magnifecence. They were far greater than any folk tale in those parts. It was a matter of chance that I had stumbled upon them on the eve of their celebrations of their monsoon festival. I was soon seen by them and they called upon me to join in. And I was surprised by their great hospitality and think more highly of them than before. After a few nights of feasting and storytelling I was invited as a guest to watch their season dances. Their splendaour left me in awe but then I recalled I had a plane to catch in 2 days and I thought I would miss it. I told one of their elders of my problem and he sent me along with a younger warg as a guide and I had arrived back in my hotel in less than a hour.

They invited me back for the winter festivel in December. I have many a more tales to share with yo. But they are for another time as I have some work to do now.

-Sleepy Ranger

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hail and welcome Sleepy Ranger to the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread! My, my, that must have been quite some experience for you. There's no doubt that Asia is one of the more Warg-friendly parts of the world. To have seen Wargs in dance, oh I can only dream!

I was thinking about making a post in opposition to those who say that Tolkien did not think much of Wargs. It will involve analysis of those (admittedly few) chapters in his books which discuss Wargs. My aim is to show that Tolkien painted a picture of a mighty being.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I imagine that shall be worth every moment of the all too protracted wait, Eomer.
My exams on 'Substantive Warg Law' and 'Commercial Wargs' went alright, though the latter was a toughy. 'Explain how the Warg Act 1985 allows for different subdivisions of wargs.' Not fun.
Welcome, Sleepy Ranger, and please excuse my tardiness in greeting you, many great things have weighed heavy on my mind these past days...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I have decided to abandon the task of showing how Tolkien portrayed Wargs as great in his books. With the merest of glances at Out of the Frying-Pan into the Fire in The Hobbit one can plainly see that Tolkien thought highly of Wargs. Thus, the self-appointed task would have been a pointless endeavour.

It strikes me now that what Tolkien dismissed from his works was the cultural aspects of Warg life. This can probably be explained by the fact that The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were written about times of War and not peace or plenty. Also, he had spent too much time building up the beauty of the Elves to overshadow them with Wargs.

And let's be honest, Legolas is going to be a much more appropriate poster-boy for the desired movie-audience than any Warg.

By the way, excellent avatar Samwise.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Thank you, Eomer, I believe it is a commandment by which all men should live their lives! And I'll tell you something else, the World would be a far better place if men would obey the warg rather than shun him and treat him as an enemy.
I must say that I hold your logic on Tolkien's approach to wargs to be rather excellent, Eomer. Wargs would have eclipsed the elves like Luthien would eclipse a dwarf-maiden, so better to not spend much time on them. Though I have to say, I don't perhaps agree that Tolkien had in mind 'poster boys' when he characterised Legolas!

[Sleepy Ranger]

"A hot day, we have wandered far unto the deepest and darkest depths of these jungles and yet not sighted what we came in search of. We lost our path on the 17th day and have been wandering aimlessly in the jungles. Our supplies were running low and it seemed we would reach our end soon. But as we struck camp for the evening, the most unexpected thing happened, a miracle. We saw figures in the trees, very much like the Great Warg of the Sea, but these shone so radiant that it can not be set on paper. A joyus flame burning in their eyes. They approached us at a steady pace and led us back to their home, where they...."

This is a diary entry of one of my ancestors. Alas, most of it did not survive the trials of time, this little bit that was still readable I have passed on to you. I am yet trying to decipher the rest of the paper and when I get a breakthrough (With any hopes soon) I shall inform you of what happened later on. A rough image I get from the words that our yet understandable say something about, beauty, spleandour and magnificence and then most of it can not be understood. I am trying my best and soon hope to decipher the rest of these diary entries.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My goodness Sleepy Ranger please do your utmost to get more of this tale. It sounds like a fantastical adventure full of wonderment. Any idea where it took place?

Samwise, I only meant that P. Jackson considered Legolas to be a poster-boy. Now that I consider it, he made Gothmog into an Orc, he may as well have made him a Warg.

Now that I consider this further, perhaps Gothmog was a Warg! Any thoughts?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

My goodness Sleepy Ranger please do your utmost to get more of this tale. It sounds like a fantastical adventure full of wonderment. Any idea where it took place?

As far as I can see it happened in Africa because from what I can tell of previous entries is that their party had docked at Cape Horn. And I am glad to say that we are making progress in revealing the conetnts of the letter and it seems that we may be on our way to some ground breaking discovery.

Now that I consider this further, perhaps Gothmog was a Warg! Any thoughts?

Yes, It may be so. The topic would be very open to debate. But I suspect it not. Because if Gothmog was a warg I supposed Minas Tirith would have fallen, after all who can defeeat a warg in its full glory in battle?

[SamwiseGamgee]

Is there a possibility that Gothmog was in fact the warg which that pink pig-orc was riding on? I think there's no other explanation. After all, which serious Tolkien fan could possibly be asked to believe that the pig-orc was Gothmog?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hmmm, that would have to be explained by extremely poor directing and I will not say that of Peter Jackson, no way, despite my criticisms of the film.

Saucepan Man is, of course, famously opposed to the film representation of Wargs. They are his least enjoyed part of the films I believe. I can certainly appreciate those thoughts. The Wargs in the movie were utterly bereft of the magnificent characteristics which add up to make Wargs the single most glorious species in the history of any world.

A bold statement, but I stand by it.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Wargs [are] the single most glorious species in the history of any world.

May I say I rally round your flag of warg worship, Eomer. For too long I feel that we have perhaps been happy to sit in our own ways, just sharing warg stories but not educating the masses as to how great and wonderful wargs are.
Perhaps now is the time for change. Perhaps now we need to go out and not give people the option- we must force the glory of the warg upon them!
Never before in the field of human existence has so much been owed by man to the warg!

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by SamwiseGamgee

Perhaps now we need to go out and not give people the option- we must force the glory of the warg upon them!

Does this involve tearing dissenters to bloody shreds? Hmmm.... The Doom laid upon Wargs by Eru has apparently spread to Warg Enthusiasts.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

We're in too deep now Diamond. As Samwise has shown, our souls are now intrinsically linked with The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread.

But how will the masses possibly understand the truth. Perhaps we need to undertake a project of subtle mind control. Better read up on the Saruman chapters, and learn from his mistakes.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Ah, tis the oldest riddle known to warg appreciators: 'how can we convert the masses?' Perhaps we need not to take pointers and guidance from Saruman but instead we should say to ourselves 'what would a warg do?', and act accordingly. For surely we cannot go too far off course with that in mind.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Would Wargs want the recognition of Men? I'm not sure. I think that, after all these years of disrespect and hatred, the Wargs have had enough and are possibly planning a major War against mankind as we speak.

Thus predicted Galadriel after a Lothlorien guard slew a Warg on the country's borders, back in the early Third Age.

[SamwiseGamgee]

And if the wargs have been planning a war that long then you can be sure that when it comes it shall eradicate mankind.
So we must try to call as many as is possible to our banner! We must save the devoted number and pray that the wargs shall have mercy upon us!
Quiver, puny humans!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Meh. If the Wargs want to destroy humanity then I'm sure they have a good reason for it. Anyway, there's no way we can stop them so we may as well just have a big fiesta.

I'm currently unearthing some more songs related to the exploits of Wargs. I shall post the first one in due time.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I shall look forwrd to your post, Eomer.
I do not think that wargs would be so crude as to commit such an uncomely crime as genocide. A warg is a noble creature and can surely work out that genocide achieves nothing other than a lot of bodies. Was it not James Joyce who wrote:

Genocide achieves nothing, and wargs know that.

An apt man, that Joyce.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

...written by a Hobbit named Frosco in the Third Age.


Warg Rider, a desire to be loved
Climb higher, to the platform just above
Little liar, you deceive me with your wit
Elocution, sculptured perfectly to fit

Tug of War, with the blessed and the mugged
Please let me quiz you, rest assured
Town crier, has our voices in his coat

Warg Rider, a desire to be loved

Warg Rider, a sifting signal of the times
Tossed and turned up, in deceptional rhymes
Soap and water, wash your mouth out all the same
She's my daughter, but I let her play the game.


-Now, what to make of this song? It was written to show the fear which the Warg Rider brought to a small Hobbit village just to the north-east of the White Downs. You'll notice the mocking way in which the writer uses the term desire to be loved. This is a reference to the Hobbits who were too indecisive about the defence of their village and instead waxed philosophical about the merits of the Warg Rider. Of course, as a result, the Warg Rider tricked his way into the village and nearly destroyed it. Perhaps the Hobbit writer is trying to show that a wisdom and knowledge of ethics, etc. is necessary before just anyone tries to act clever. Maybe if the Hobbits had reacted properly they could have resisted the Warg Rider.

A sad song it is. The last line is generally interpreted as a reference to a young Hobbit lass who was abducted by the Warg Rider and never found again.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Interesting indeed, Eomer. Once again you suprise and delight with your unearthing of warg related titbits. It does astound me how these fools can deride the Warg Rider so flippantly and nigh on insultingly. One has no suprise that he strung them up by their intestines and allowed crows to peck at their genitals.*
I have of late been looking through some literature of a non-Tolkien origin in an attempt to find anything in reference to wargs. My search has been fruitless, but I'm sure with a little more trying I'll find something. Must keep trying.

*-dramatisation, may not have happened.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

They can be found in the deep, dark places of the world. They are hard to find, but they are worth the journey.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Yes, while on vacation a week ago, in an area where few humans live, I saw signs of wargs... I was hot on the trail for many days, giving up rest and food and drink for a chance of a chance to meet wargs... And all in vain, I might add. Just as I felt I was getting really close, the call came to pack my bags and leave the place... I will not be discouraged by this temporary setback. Better luck next year.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Do not be discouraged, Azaelia . The hunt for wargs is a long and deadly one, and few men ever succeed in their quest to find one. I, for example, once spent 14 months in a cardboard box measuring 3ft cubed in the Japanese Alps in the hope of seeing a warg. I never did, but I don't mind that, not only because I have been blessed enough to see other wargs but because it taught me a great deal: the hardships wargs must face, the nutritional value of excrement and just how many hairs grow inside my nose are but a few.

[SamwiseGamgee]

What has gone wrong? It seems years ago that I last posted on this most noble of threads. It was a mere ten days ago, and while in the past I have seen hundreds of posts leap onto a thread in this time no man has dared post on this thread in that time.
Why, oh why? Even our great leader, Eomer, so faithful in his warg knowledge, has not posted. It breaks my heart.
Wargs are everything to us subscribers to this thread. Our friends, our lovers (selected individuals) and our heroes. Surely when we have an opportunity to show our appreciation we should. Come, one and all, post with your interesting or enrapturing tales of wargs. Even if you are a newcomer and unsure, just post, or better still, ask_wargy@hotmail.com.
Brothers and sisters, I call upon you to remember one thing: wargs. Just think on all that those great beasts of legend embody and ask yourself not what wargs can do for you, but what you can do for wargs. And then post your suggestions. Ahem.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fear not, Thread, my computer is now fixed and I shall return to my ritual of daily visits to the Downs and our beloved Thread in particular.

I think it is time for another song concerning Wargs. Be prepared for this glorious song! I experienced it live and it brought tears to the eyes. I shall post soon.

The possibility of Warg-related clothing is also a topic which should be addressed. Samwise and I intend to show our love for Wargs by purchasing custom-made clothing from an internet distributor. Would the Wargs appreciate this? I would say aye, yet I fear that the Wargs would be infuriated if we started a trend among the wannabe 'cool kids' to wear Warg fashion.

Let us hope that this power to convey our true feelings remains with the wise, and not the fashionistas, for it is well known how the Wargs despise bandwagon-jumpers.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

....by the beloved Colin McIntyre.


Why, have we got to try?
Time's on our side, in these mechanical times,
Swallow the pride, of the digital minds,
If time's on our side,

How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,

Why, have we got to fly?
Numenoreans have lied,
Time-honoured minds,
Gil-galad's a spy,
Science collides,
Time's on our side,

How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,
How 'bout you love Wargs more,

It's all over the news, it's all over again,

Why, do we have to fight?
The Eldar have died,
Metaphysics denied,
Tar-Palantir was right,
Tomorrow's arrived,
Rebuild their designs.

How 'bout you love Wargs more?




This was a song written for those faithful to the Elves on the island of Numenor, cherishing the simple joys (specifically Wargs) which they left behind on Middle-earth. Alas! Numenor had bliss at a point, but there were no Wargs, and that left a sore feeling among the faithful, especially near the catastrophic end.

[High King Fingolfin]

I'm back after five weeks of not posting on this thread, or even on the Downs itself!

Welcome everyone new, I'm having trouble keeping track of you.

I found the Wargs who lived near my house - further details later.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Bravo on finding that song, Eomer, and hail thee, High King Fingolfin!
Here follows a song written by the hobbit known as Conor:

You can't fool old wargs with bad pipeweed
A warg with a heart of gold
Cheap pipeweed that can't be sold
Will send you to an early grave

But Wargy looked down and said 'Son,
I know a conman when I see one,
That pipeweed smells like an orc's bum.'

You just laughed and said
No one here forgets those wargs

The elves had a meeting of minds
Consistent hypocrisy... hey! That's alright
Let's overthrow this old town

So hands off the virgin warg queen
You can't fool old wargs with bad pipeweed
Cos they'll send you to an early grave

I'm not exactly sure what the young, 'artistically tormented' hobbit is referring to in the third stanza of this song, some say it is a political outcry at Rivendell's increasingly xenophobic foreign policy in the Third Age, others say it may be aimed more at Lothlorien. Politics aside, though, it's a great song!
Another song I also greatly enjoy is one written by an anonymous muse, who after hearing of wargs and their greatness came late to the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread but I think all here could identify with it:

Infatuation
You don't know by now
To take me to the Downs
Take me to the Downs

You don't know by now
To take me to the Downs
Take me to the Downs

Infatuation

You don't know by now
To take me to the Downs
Take me to the Downs

Infatuation
Infatuation
Infatuation

Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs
Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs
Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs
Infatuation with the warg
In my mind on the Downs

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nice songs Samwise, although I too am slightly worried about the meaning towards the end of that first song.

Isn't it funny how, when seeing the songs about Wargs typed or written, one can instantly add a tune to it. I have heard of a little known Norwegian band called Aeglos who write songs about Middle-earth and Wargs. Their music is varied. They have songs which would not seem out of a place at a Hobbit party, yet they also deal with the dark political and military sides of Middle-earth. Another example of Tolkien's influence.

[SamwiseGamgee]

It is certainly an interesting aspect of the good professor's wide-spanning influence. There's no doubting the fact that his works have spanned further than we can ever imagine. And I think we must all stop to remember one thing, were it not for Prof. J.R.R. Tolkien there is a good chance that we would not know of wargs. That we, that most esteemed and devout alumni would be nought but ignorant fools, completely in the dark as regards those wonderful and great beasts who are like deities amongst us: wargs. So, I thank you, professor, and may you rest in the bosom of a warg.

[High King Fingolfin]

Indeed, without the professor, we would know nothing of the great and illustrious and Warg.

I will finish transcribing my tale soon. I was lucky to see as many Wargs as I did. It was an experience I will never forget.