Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXV: On the Borders of Mirkwood - Dead Thread

[Loslote]

Ah, but it locks in when we hit majority+, so looks like we're empowering Form. Sorry Nog, I know you wanted to wait.

[Boromir88]

The good thing is. I'll have the narration done right at the DL. The bad is it leaves you all still with 28 minutes to wait

Edit: Which will include the displeasure of the dead, uttered through Form's voice. :-p. It shall be interesting.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Form is chosen. He's reached the threshold of 3.

Oh yeah that.

Sorry!

But frankly, when ten villagers vote for someone, I think we should support them just to highlight how dumb that is.

hS

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Exactly this, though less strongly, and with added 'a Day 3 village shouldn't vote a landslide!'. I strongly suspect we've just seen a lupine mass-vote, though I don't think most of its members look wolfish.

But yes, this bandwagon reeks of misguided villagers with wolves pushing it from the beginning. Kath, Mac, and Legate were the ones who kept pushing up Form whenever anyone else brought up Mac or Legate, and I'm fairly convinced that those are three of the four wolves.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Edit: Which will include the displeasure of the dead, uttered through Form's voice. :-p. It shall be interesting.

Perfect! Thanks, Boro.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Form is going to be the lynchee either way, if we empower Greenie we draw attention to her

That I have been against from the very beginning. So agreed.

if we empower Form we are essentially saying "we think you made the wrong choice toDay", which I think is a message worth relaying. He's going to die anyway, so we wouldn't be potentially saving an evil, just sending the message that lynching Form toDay wasn't a choice we agree with, and we would have preferred to see them lynch Legate.

Well, like I said, I still suspect Form to a degree (a lot more than many others), so that was my "unhappiness" to empower Form himself, just in principle. But as there are already two votes for Form, it's a deal then as to whom the empowered vote goes is much more important at this stage than who gets empowered.

But in case of some seer-reveals or something I'd still ask hS to hold his vote.


EDIT: I clearly X'd all the stuff that actually meant something...

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

But frankly, when ten villagers vote for someone, I think we should support them just to highlight how dumb that is.

I can't believe Brinn is the only person who's even mentioned that we learn NOTHING from the votes, since everyone voted for the same person.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But in case of some seer-reveals or something I'd still ask hS to hold his vote.

Sorry again. :-/ (Bit ironic, that: me misremembering the rules...)

Originally Posted by Loslote

I can't believe Brinn is the only person who's even mentioned that we learn NOTHING from the votes, since everyone voted for the same person.

UH-HUH.

It also makes Greenie Stand out a lot, whichever way Form flips.

(How did we just see 6 votes in 10 minutes - half an hour before DL?!)

hS

[Nogrod]

From Boro's comment on Form complaining in the narration that even the dead disagree, I got the vibe he's innocent.

But who knows?

It would be quite nasty blow to our self-esteem if all the village was right and we were totally wrong. Especially if Greenie and Form were the wolves who tried to prevent the lynch, but even the two other wolves gave up on him and decided to throw him under the bus.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

The Last Will and Testament of Formendacil, Late of Village CXV

The soon-to-be-deceased bequeaths to the surviving Ordos and Gifteds the following message: you're terrible.

If it helps, Form, We The Dead completely agree.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

From Boro's comment on Form complaining in the narration that even the dead disagree, I got the vibe he's innocent.

I guess he answered that himself in the Thread.

Its a cold comfort we were right in this as there are still only ordinary villagers down.

[Huinesoron]

Still hoping he's being a Cobblewolf, but... yeah.

hS

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I guess he answered that himself in the Thread.

Its a cold comfort we were right in this as there are still only ordinary villagers down.

Boro, why do the special roles in your games never die?

[Loslote]

Honestly, the village had a really good shot at lynching a wolf toDay, and most of them decided to just coast. Which is a really bad move, because obviously the easy choice is going to be the one the wolves are pushing! Now we're in serious trouble toMorrow, and an early vote from an innocent basically dooms the village. We just have to hope the innocents wake up and realize we're already in the end game.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Now we're in serious trouble toMorrow, and an early vote from an innocent basically dooms the village. We just have to hope the innocents wake up and realize we're already in the end game.

Well, if they pull themselves together, we can still aid them through toMorrow with our vote. Especially if the Ranger has brains not to stand by Cobbler-Nilp's door the whole Night and maybe manages to save someone.

[Boromir88]

The Dead

Boro (Town Recorder) - murdered by pack Night 1
Huinesoron (Villager) - lynched Day 1
Loslote (Villager) - killed by pack Night 2
Nogrod (Villager) - Lynched Day 2
Blind Guardian (Villager) - killed by pack Night 3
Formendacil (Villager) - lynched Day 3

Welcome Formendacil!

Take comfort the dead believed you...erm for the most part! It wasn't fully out of spite and anger towards the lynch mob.

And seriously HOW IS THIS HAPPENING IN MY VILLAGE AGAIN!

I TRY TO DESIGN A GAME THAT DOESN'T TURN INTO A BATTLE OF WOLVES VS. GIFTEDS AND THIS IS WHAT I GET

/Rant.

Well not so much a rant or anger, I just seriously can't believe after that 2011 Lake Town game...the exact same thing is happening.

[Formendacil]

Hey, Dead People! What's up?

[Loslote]

Hey Form! Sorry the living were terrible.

[Nogrod]

Welcom Form!

You'll surely find yourself more comfortable here. So sit down and relax - and maybe skim the thread at some point if you wish (even that is not mandatory).

You'll find a few soulmates here who understand your feelings - having gone through the same thing.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Hey, Dead People! What's up?

Hey Form, we* believed in you!

*Maybe not me personally, but I did vote to empower you!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, if they pull themselves together, we can still aid them through toMorrow with our vote. Especially if the Ranger has brains not to stand by Cobbler-Nilp's door the whole Night and maybe manages to save someone.

Unless someone Gifted does something pretty spectacular, every Day from now on is 'lynch or lose'.

hS

[Formendacil]

Not gonna lie... I'm probably going to read through theDead Thread and see if I was as universally suspicious here too. Gotta hand it to the Wolves, there's a lot of room to hide in that bandwaggon.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Not gonna lie... I'm probably going to read through theDead Thread and see if I was as universally suspicious here too. Gotta hand it to the Wolves, there's a lot of room to hide in that bandwaggon.

I personally spent the whole Day tearing my hair out and watching as Kath, Mac, and Legate pushed you up every single time anyone tried to bring up Mac and Legate as suspects. Wildly frustrating, and I absolutely can't believe no one else saw it.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Well not so much a rant or anger, I just seriously can't believe after that 2011 Lake Town game...the exact same thing is happening.

It's no ordinary Lady Fortuna -stuff, it's the Fates, like in the Ancient Greece!

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I personally spent the whole Day tearing my hair out and watching as Kath, Mac, and Legate pushed you up every single time anyone tried to bring up Mac and Legate as suspects. Wildly frustrating, and I absolutely can't believe no one else saw it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say killing off someone analytical was seen as a bonus when the Wolves were making their Night 2 kill. ;-)

[Blind Guardian]

I am so sorry Form

[Nogrod]

Btw. the narration kind of did us a favour - and there's the other side of the coin as well.

By stressing the uneasiness we had here, Boro gave the impression that we empowered Form because of him getting into the gallows (which is partly true, of course). So if the wolves have not suspected Greenie of seership (and she is the one), then we have nicely ducked any connection to Greenie with our vote-empowerment and thus gave the wolves no aid in discovering that.

The downside then of course is, that the villagers also think like that and pay no attention to the fact that we were actually and actively trying to get Legate lynched - and that they probably should do that.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I'm going to go out on a limb and say killing off someone analytical was seen as a bonus when the Wolves were making their Night 2 kill. ;-)

Haha, I'd hope I have a reputation for being a good wolf hunter! Using Rikae's metrics, I think I'd have good perception but bad persuasion marks.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The downside then of course is, that the villagers also think like that and pay no attention to the fact that we were actually and actively trying to get Legate lynched - and that they probably should do that.

They need to look at who was pushing Form all Day yesterDay, and that should lead them back to our suspected pack. Here's hoping there's a villager left who can figure it out.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Here's hoping there's a villager left who can figure it out.

Cheers for that!

And congrats for getting it right!

You know, miracles can still happen?

Okay. It's coming 1.30AM here, so I'll get to sleep now.

See you during the Night.

[Formendacil]

I'm catching up on the Dead Thread backlog (and I've never really been part of one) and, while it is somewhat irrelevant, I want to go on record saying how NICE it is to have WW where you aren't suspicious and/or faking it. This is such a happy place to be.

[Blind Guardian]

I agree, Form. I'd like to vote that we have a Dead Thread every game, even if the Dead play no role. Just to chat.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I'm catching up on the Dead Thread backlog (and I've never really been part of one) and, while it is somewhat irrelevant, I want to go on record saying how NICE it is to have WW where you aren't suspicious and/or faking it. This is such a happy place to be.

Indeed! I don't know how to describe it...

But after Cobbler-G55 and Rikae went after eachother in Nog's game. They were the first 2 dead players in here and proceeded to amicably work together, even being on different sides.

I mean granted so far this is just dead villagers, but it is a uniting force you don't get as a "live" player. And just my luck these are the only games I'm immortal in and never die

[Blind Guardian]

Some day I want to mod a game.

[Loslote]

I agree with you guys, Dead Threads are a fantastic addition to the game! It would feel wrong to have a game without one now.

[Formendacil]

I would definitely have played more WW games in the last decade, had I been anticipating this warm, cozy happiness as part of it--while the THRILL of the game is certainly in the not knowing and adrenaline, it can be weary, and that has definitely factored in my sparse playing the past several years.

(Also a factor was the job, and I think it is a great sign that the job I am in now doesn't drain me so much that WW feels like too much work--the fact that it's been quiet and I've been able to overplay at work is just a bonus).

On a far less cozy note, I did not do the math as a Living player as to how dire things were getting from a numbers standpoint, but the fact that Nilp drew attention to it was factor in my trust--though, as ye Hallowed ones have made me more aware, his timing is equally devilish if he's a Cobbler.

Kath, Mac, and Legate seem a fairly concensus "core" Wolfpack. Pitch's throwaway Day 1 vote for Kath remains an argument in favour of him being the 4th, but that's probably just me being biased in favour of my own arguments. Shasta, Sally, and Rikae all look darker to me than they did, but I sort of think Shasta might be the Ranger, Sally a railroaded, last-standing, Ordo, and Rikae the Wolf. I agree with my Living self that Greenie and Lommy look innocent--and I like the Greenie is a Seer arguments here. I guess that would leave Brinn as the last Ordo in my reckoning, which feels right.

If Nilp is NOT the Beast Hunter, then I incline to slot Brinn into that role--or may she's the Ranger and Shasta the Beast Hunter.

[Loslote]

I'm not super confident as to who the last wolf is, but I'd guess Sally or Lommy, maybe Rikae. I think Shasta might be Gifted, though Shasta always seems to be the Ranger, so that would be lucky indeed! If Greenie is the Seer, she'd better hope for protection toNight, I would kill her if I was a wolf. Pitch I think might legitimately be the Cobbler.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

I agree, Form. I'd like to vote that we have a Dead Thread every game, even if the Dead play no role. Just to chat.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I agree with you guys, Dead Threads are a fantastic addition to the game! It would feel wrong to have a game without one now.

I agree! Though in games where we don't get any vote I think there would be a fair bit more frustrated yelling...

I can confirm that being a wolf in a Good-dominated Dead Thread is super relaxing too: you're still running a deception, but since you know they're ignoring you anyway, you can play it as pseudo-Cobbler. I thank Cobbler55 for guiding me to the True Path last game. ^_^

(Speaking of which, I wish people would stop prodding at Rikae's 'epic' comment and remember that they were the Good Cobbler who started the whole Brinn-vote thing. Of course they're going to enthuse about it!)

hS

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Kath, Mac, and Legate seem a fairly concensus "core" Wolfpack.

Yes - and still our consensus actually worries me a bit. I mean when one starts to believe in some solution one's critical powers take a considerable hit; when one falls in love with one's explanation one easily stops thinking all together.

Rikae, Shasta and Lommy (or even Greenie) could be the core of a wolfpack as well. Or well, almost any combination.

Although I hope Greenie really is the Seer as it would both make sense and be encouraging if we got it right (and the wolves didn't) - even if that also makes me a bit worried that the wolves might then be after her pretty soon. On the other hand, Greenie is such a smart person that she might actually pull that trick in front of our eyes and be a wolf.

But we should be wiser come Day4.


I'll join the consensus also in the other topic: Dead Threads are a very good idea. Not only because of the nice atmosphere, but also because everyone can play the game to the end and no-one is dropped off the game (without a possibility to discuss with others about it).

[Loslote]

Speaking of Greenie, who do we think will be joining us in a few hours? I think Greenie and Rikae might be Seer-targets, and I think Rikae is the obvious person to be protected toNight after their hinting yesterDay, which might unfortunately make Greenie a safer choice for the wolves. They might also go for someone quiet like Shasta, though.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But we should be wiser come Day4.

The Living need to be very cautious toMorrow. One wrong vote from an innocent and the wolves can pile on. Really I think we need help from the Gifteds, either a save or a Seer reveal, the village just doesn't have any room to get it wrong.