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#201 | |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
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As for the reasons for the film not doing well -- I think Bb might be on to something with the gender gap. Interesting side note -- wasn't it the head of production at Warners who was widely reported last fall as proclaiming that WB was going to stop making pictures with female leads? That wouldn't bode well for sequels either. Anyway, I think there might've been a bit of a demographic gap, too -- "girl and her bear" maybe didn't really appeal to older audiences, especially those coveted 18-25 year old males, but the trailers didn't say "family movie" either. I don't put any stock in the whole atheism factor. Religious protests usually serve to give a picture free publicity, and if anything only increase its box office prospects -- see Harry Potter. From where I stand, the protests seemed pretty half-hearted over here anyway. |
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#202 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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I've finally seen The Golden Compass (now we have to wait for DVDs to come out, as going to the cinema is an unattainable luxury with Ye Kraken about). I really do not understand the negative opinions to be honest. My only fault with it was that it was too short, it ought to have been an hour longer and lingered over some of the scenes more.
However I think I know why it failed to crack the US market - it doesn't fit into any of the 'markets'. It isn't a kiddies' film, all saccharin and primary colours. It isn't an all-action sword and gore fest. It isn't a serious 'issues' drama. I'm pretty certain it did much, much better over here as the books are held in such high regard and so it was able to find a way around the stereotypical demands of audiences. It did however have a very 'English' feel to it, and I still think that the protagonist being a girl didn't help everyone appreciate it. Ho-hum, that's their loss. And it's a shame the US audience didn't go to see it as it was a beautiful film, the characters were well done and unlike Jackson's work, the changes to the storyline were totally coherent and actually worked. The special effects and art were especially wonderful, and Nicole Kidman was deliciously evil. I was also amused by Pullman's completely non-precious attitude towards it (as shown on the extras disc); he admitted it was nice to finally see some mega-bucks as a result of his work. ![]() Though if you want to know what the best fantasy film is, even better than Lord of the Rings, just watch Stardust. It knocks everything into a cocked hat and if a Tolkien fan wants to see what faerie looks and feels like then they know where to look and it's not at the films of Tolkien's work! I had the distinct feeling he'd had loved it himself. ![]()
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#203 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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To be honest, as an American I did shy away from the movie based on the reviews, opting for the DVD release. *shrugs*
But then again, I never read Pullman's His Dark Materials, nor have I read any Harry Potter books. *shrugs again* However, my seven...errr...eight year old daughter (egad, her birthday is this month!) has expressed an interest in the books and the movie. Do you think it's worthwhile for a precocious eight year old? We read together and enjoyed both The Narnia Chronicles and The Hobbit (She enjoyed LotR on film, but the books are a little over her head). Just wondering what the reading level of Pullman's books are ('young adult' is a rather vague category).
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#204 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I think it's a marvellous read for girls, as Lyra is a very atypical female lead character - I just love Lyra and Hermione Granger as modern day heroines. It's also very readable for a good reader, though a lot of the references to Milton, Blake etc would not be noticed - that's not an issue though as the story itself is what's important at that age, and the plot is good. The main criticisms are that Pullman loses control of what he was trying to say as the books go on, but that's an issue for the adults; the kids just want a good story and characters, and it doesn't fall down on those.
It is quite scary though - if it frightened me in places, I think it would definitely scare a child!
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#205 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#206 | |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#207 | ||
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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#208 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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My grandson is going on seven and absolutely adores the LOTR films. He has seen them dozens of times and will not even fast forward to the "good parts" but sits and watches every scene on the extended editions. This weekend, I asked him if he wanted to go see IRON MAN or do a LOTR marathon and he opted for LOTR.
So two weeks ago I bought the DVD of COMPASS and thought he might enjoy it. He watched 25 minutes and gave up on it. I tried to bring it out again this weekend and give it another go but he wanted nothing to do with it. |
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#209 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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What saves Compass from being absolutely dark and terrifying as regards adult treatment of children--or at least the readiness of Lyre's parents to sacrifice other children (to say nothing of adults) to their theories and experiments--is the incredible way that Pullman empowers Lyre. It is her resilience, independence, stubbornness, courage, that is a beacon to children about claiming authority over their own lives. Will too I think, particularly in his ability to care for his mother. Pullman's children are significant for their own agency, something a bit rare in most literature. After all, children once were supposed to "be seen and not heard."
Very much like Aule's creation are given a life of their own when Iluvatar grants them a voice; they are not left to be commanded by Aule's will but flinch from the axe and beg for mercy.
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#210 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Both Narnia films have had a veddy, veddy British feel- but made huge US money.
(BTW, I think that depicting the Telmarines with a Spanish Conquistador feel was brilliant).
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#211 |
Shade with a Blade
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Absolutely! It made me wonder if the original Telmar-guys were pirates of Spanish or Portuguese descent.
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#212 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,779
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That's really interesting about the different marketing tactics. It was definitely marketed at children, here in Europe...lots of emphasis on the big polar bear and so on.
As for suitable ages for Pullman...I think seven/eight is a bit young, particularly for independent reading. Not because it's too scary, but because Pullman is quite dense and literary in style - it's much heavier going than the Hobbit. I'd put it on a par with Lord of the Rings, at least.
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Out went the candle, and we were left darkling |
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#213 | |
Fair and Cold
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As for "Compass" - didn't like it. They took a brilliant opportunity to introduce a really cool female hero and wasted it with horrible editing (especially toward the end). I tend to overlook a lot of flaws in movies like that, but it didn't strike me as a movie with soul, a vibrant core. Though it was hilarious how in one scene they steered clear of outright insulting the Catholic Church by insulting the Orthodox Church instead (the icons used in one scene were obviously Orthodox). Great PR move! Then again, I've always meant to ask Pullman as to why he had that weird scene in HDM with the (surprise!) vodka-slugging, smelly, terrible, irredeemable Slavs.
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~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~ Last edited by Lush; 05-29-2008 at 02:30 AM. Reason: forgot an adjective! ;) |
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#214 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...p-ten-gro.html
More evidence that fantasy movies don't play well in the US - Prince Caspian underperformed in America but was in the global top ten. Based on its 'domestic' performance Disney have pulled out of their option of co-producing Voyage of the Dawn Treader. VoDT may get picked up based on its global box office (but maybe not with the same budget). Can't think of any recent fantasy movies which have shaken up the US B.O. - actually not since The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe. And if a sequel to such a major performer can underperform so badly that Disney jump ship mid franchise it might mean that Warner's will start looking a bit more closely at TH. Maybe fantasy movies have had their day & the studios will start looking around for the next big thing - & I can't help feeling that these new productions would have excited Tolkien far more than a Hobbit movie http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...n-1206529.html |
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#215 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
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I'm still not buying this theory that it's the US in particular that has somehow become fantasy averse. Caspian was #13 in the yearly domestic box office; its decline in domestic B.O. compared to LtWatW (criminy, that's a clunky acronym) was roughly equivalent to the decline in international B.O. I haven't seen poor domestic box office cited in the stories I read so much as poor overall box office. Caspian didn't even match Compass internationally.
There are still fantasy projects being developed. I can think of two big script sales within the past six months or so -- Galahad and Round Table -- and there are projects like Clash of the Titans and a Dragonheart sequel that are moving down the tracks. They're still trying to reboot Conan, and I've seen a pilot script for a cable series version of George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. I think what's feeling the squeeze are these megabudget tentpole fantasy films. This is an old Hollywood routine. Any time a genre picture goes mainstream and breaks the bank, all the other studios try to get in on the act. After Star Wars, everybody wanted their own big budget sci-fi franchise. Then when stuff like Dune tanked rather spectacularly, the studios got cold feet. Unforgiven briefly revived the western. The one-two punch of Braveheart and Gladiator made the big-budget historical epic viable for a good while. The comic-book superhero trend that's been dominating the decade has been showing some wear and tear, but The Dark Knight alone will probably keep it going for a while longer yet. When LotR and Harry Potter blew up the box office, the studios optioned every fantasy series in sight. Now that some of those are turning out to be bum investments, they're backing off, especially in this economy. The moment Harry Potter stops making money, WB will pull the plug, though that doesn't look like it'll happen anytime soon and they're almost done, aren't they? On the other hand, I do agree that The Hobbit, especially in the planned two-part form, may feel some squeeze. I'd say that the fact that Jackson and Spielberg couldn't secure a green light for Tintin is a bellwether for how risk-averse the studios are right now. It'll be interesting to see how things play out. |
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#216 |
Shade with a Blade
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Wow! 3 1066 movies! That's great! I'm disappointed that they beat me to it, but William Nicholson is terrific.
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#217 | |||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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#218 | ||
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
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![]() Maybe studios will turn to 'feel good' cheese-fests like Mamma Mia as the recession bites? And more and more apocalyptic misery as 2012 approaches and film makers try to milk all that rubbish. Quote:
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#219 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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They probably will - I've long suspected that most of the movie fans who have been demanding a TH movie know little & care less about Tolkien's book: they want another movie with all their favourite characters in it. I further suspect that that's exactly what Warners will expect to find on their hands come 2011/12.
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#220 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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Just come across this http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-1213848.html
Definitely interesting that Harry Potter (the most successful franchise in history) could find itself in trouble. No predictions, but if we hear soon that the Hobbit sequel is to be put on hold, & that instead we're to get a single movie with an entirely new story for a LotR prequel, focussing on Aragorn (& Legolas probably) hunting Gollum & the White Council's assault on Dol Guldur I for one wouldn't be too surprised.... |
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#221 | |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
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This is quite interesting, I wonder what genre is up next?
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#222 | ||
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
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Some of that other stuff could happen though. For instance, Dragonheart is almost certain to happen, somewhere in the $30M range. There's an audience that can support fantasy at that price tag. Quote:
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