Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[the phantom]

We have three tries to hang the werewolf. My top three suspects, in order, are Primrose, Fea, and Kuruharan.

I stated my case for Kuru here.

I showed that Fea was not in the clear here. The fact that she voted to kill Firefoot doesn't excuse her since, really, it was a choice between Firefoot and herself.

On day one, I suggested that Primrose was the hidden third werewolf. Mithalwen has already stated the reasons.

Who will I vote for?

I don't know right now.

[bilbo_baggins]

I must add now, with a bit of amusement, that since there is only one werewolf left, Oddwen's and my not being able to post cannot really count for evidence as there are two of us...

I am split currently (having taken this time to read the discussion so far) between two unmentioned people. I don't like to vote as of yet, because of the danger of hanging an innocent and ruining our perfect score...

bilbo_baggins

[Primrose Bolger]

Holy guacamole! The seer is shredded!

And geez, now this frightened old village gammer is in danger of being lynched . . . I have nothing to show but my bloodless hands . . . oh, and you can check my teeth if you wish - no bits of seer-flesh stuck in the gaps and crevices . . .

'Flying under the radar'! I can hardly walk, much less flap my scrawny old arms fast enough to fly at all. Choose me, and two more villagers will have to die before the last beast is found.

I am sticking with my previous vote, prompted all the more so by the fact that the Seer was still looking hard at her:

My attitude toward Fea has lessened, but I don't think she is clear. One might still hold suspicions of somebody but set that aside to single out somebody he has much more suspicion of so as to more fully focus his attention. -- mormegil

++ Fea

. . . sigh . . . do what you will . . . I've had a good life . . .

[Kuruharan]

Ahh, one wanderer returns at least.

I am split currently (having taken this time to read the discussion so far) between two unmentioned people.

We only have a few hours left. Might I suggest you mention them?

We have an opportunity to win tonight after all.

But I think that I have proved, Kuru, that Fea is not "as pure and innocent as the wind driven snow".

Weeell, maybe. I guess it's possible. I would say it almost seems like a little bit of a stretch, but I've thought that before and we know how that turned out...

Crikey! I'm all conflicted again...

I'll wait and see if bilbo cares to reveal his suspects...

[Kuruharan]

Well, we are running out of time by my calculation. We're obviously going to have to do something or the Wrath of The Wight™ will descend upon our poor anarcho-syndicalist commune.

*sigh* This is most awkward. However...

After re-reading today's posts and consulting one of the most reliable scientific methods known to the Free Peoples, mentioned in our books of Arcane Lore™ as "Flipping a Coin" (and doing so several times), I still could not make up my mind.

We seem to have reached a spot where a lot of our leads have kind of dried up (or been hung). However, there is one last little lead left. Even though Mithalwen said some cruel and hurtful things about my intentions and motives (weep, weep, sob )...

(Note to Future Players: Don't compliment people, it seems to only make them suspicious.)

...she pointed out the last lead we have available. I'm not entirely confident in this, but I'm still inclined to believe that Feanor is innocent. In spite of the phantom's articulate reasoning, it just seems like too much of a stretch.

Unfortunately, I'm not entirely confident though, but...

++ PRIMROSE BOLGER

(If this doesn't pan out, then I'm throwing logic to the four winds where it belongs and only believing people who present stretchy arguments.)

[Kuruharan]

I just had it pointed out to me that I went and did a really stupid thing.

I forgot that we have 24 hours during the DAY rather than 12.

Ooops! Is my face red?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But I think that I have proved, Kuru, that Fea is not "as pure and innocent as the wind driven snow".

You doubt my purity and innocence? If only I had a glove or gauntlet around to challenge you with... Come now friend, all you've proved is that since I was a shoo-in to be lynched yesterday, mormegil didn't waste his dream on me. He didn't actually know for certain I was innocent. That doesn't mean a darned thing, given that none of you actually know anything. Especially given my talent for riling everybody up, as well as keeping y'all in a constant state of confusion. Eh, boys?

Since my niggling doubt won't go away, no matter how hard I'm trying to make it disappear, I feel that I really must put forth that ++Primrose is the most suspicious to me. And if she's not guilty, God forbid, than my only comment can be: "Fair's fair, she voted for me first."

[the phantom]

He didn't actually know for certain I was innocent. That doesn't mean a darned thing

You have a weird definition of what exactly means a darned thing. Whether or not the seer knew about you is the issue here- a very important issue. There is a big difference between the seer saying "Fea is innocent" and the seer saying "I don't know, I never checked". Being cleared of all charges by the seer definitely does mean "a darned thing".

But I'm not voting for you anyway- this round, that is , of course I hope there isn't another round after this.

+ + Primrose Bolger

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hey, Primrose is dead! I got through another day without being lynched!

Either that means that I am one heck of a liar, or it means that you guys finally figured out that I'm trustworthy, honorable, and pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow. Anyone care to take a guess before we find out what Prim was?

[the phantom]

Either that means that I am one heck of a liar

You probably lie a lot, because you said one time how you looove being called a liar in real life.

Oops, sorry- I forgot... you hate being called a liar in real life. Just a li'l innocent slip up there. Totally unintentional.

you guys finally figured out that I'm trustworthy, honorable, and pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow

You're only meaning within this game, I assume.

Hey, Primrose is dead!

Don't announce it prematurely. You don't want it to end up being one of those Crystal Heart deaths.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Seconds after the fourth and final vote was cast, Primrose Bolger was bound with thick leather bands. To further secure her should she prove to be a werewolf, a set of iron shackles that had been manufactured earlier in the day was fastened round her thick, hobbitish ankles. Finally, every villager armed themselves with sharp weapons. Firefoot had nearly escaped them, and they would not allow this beast to get away.

“I’ve said little to incriminate myself, and almost nothing in accusation of others,” she sobbed. “My votes have always been with my heart, which is pure. You’ll doom us all if you hang me.”

“Save it for the devil,” remarked someone angrily, and another person threw a stone, hitting Primrose on the forehead. Blood trickled into her eyes, which remained alert. As the pain of the blow passed, the smile faded from her face, and she spat contemptuously at her captors.

“The devil will have all of you,” she shrieked, “for your participation in this wickedness. But the wolf will have you first!”

Another stone struck face, knocking her senseless. She moaned in agony as they led her to the gallows.

A bag was placed over her head, and the noose was drawn tight. With a collective sigh, the crowd watched as she fell with a soft snap. Everyone cheered as her body began to twitch violently, and they all rushed forward with arms raised high.

But she didn’t shake for long. In only a short moment, perhaps 10 seconds, her body slumped and hung limply, devoid of life. After a long silence of horrible disbelief, the villagers began to wail at the evil they had done.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Living

• the phantom
• Oddwen
• Feanor of the Peredhil
• bilbo_baggins
• Kuruharan
• Mithalwen

Dead

• Shelob (Villager) - mangled by werewolves during Night 1
• Anguirel (Werewolf) - hanged on Day 1
• The Saucepan Man (Villager) – shredded and simmered by werewolves during Night 2
• Firefoot (Werewolf) - hanged on Day 2
• mormegil (The Seer) - shredded horrificallyby a werewolf on Night 3
• Primrose Bolger (Villager) – hanged for suspicion of being a werewolf

Score
Werewolves: 1
Villagers: 5

The Villagers aren’t so smart without their seer, eh?

It is now NIGHT (or it will be tomorrow morning at 6AM). The werewolf has until 6PM tomorrow night to kill another villager.

************************************************** ***************
You know, we could speed our games up and still give people plenty of time to get on in any time zone. Starting next game (or even this one if everyone agrees), we could say that DAY or NIGHT starts as soon as the moderator writes the results of the previous phase. Each phase lasts up to 24 hours, but can end much sooner if everyone responds (werewolves decide on their victim/villagers vote a majority) and the moderator has time to write the report. People would not be obligated to hurry, but if result did come faster, then we wouldn't have to wait for so long to begin the next phase.

Please feel free to discuss this idea for an accelerated timetable here while we wait for the werewolf to pick his/her victim .

Thanks

************************************************** **************

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

You probably lie a lot, because you said one time how you looove being called a liar in real life.

Oops, sorry- I forgot... you hate being called a liar in real life. Just a li'l innocent slip up there. Totally unintentional.

Take this as a rule of thumb: what I do say is almost always true. It's what I don't say that you should be worried about.

Don't announce it prematurely. You don't want it to end up being one of those Crystal Heart deaths.

Not even joking, just fell out of the chair. That was funny.

[the phantom]

I like BW's idea for the timing of this game. As soon as he makes his kill announcement, the next phase starts. Everyone will look at the time BW posted and know that they have until that time the following day (if they are having a difficult time making a decision).

And Prim... a heartfelt "oops" from myself and the rest of the village.

We'll be down to five tomorrow. I thought I was going to be killed the night Saucy got done in. Last night I figured Morm was going to bite the dust so I wasn't worried. Tonight- I'm a bit worried. I'm hoping the wolf will kill Mith instead of me, though (no hard feelings ).

Of course, if Mith does turn up dead, I am sure that everyone will be quick to point out that, for the second time (the first being Saucy), the wolves killed who I suggested, so maybe I shouldn't have said that.

Start coming up with theories for tomorrow, people.

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Fea says to tell you guys;

I like the idea of tweaking the timing, I second that heartfelt "oops", and I would post this myself but I got booted before I could finish my edit.

That's it. Have fun.

[bilbo_baggins]

I must say Primrose, that you were not one of the people I suspected... I am sorry you died.

And, Kuru, since I had to be absent from the time that you asked until you lynched Prim, I will wait until the werewolf has killed again to try and make guesses.

But I will tell you that they might not be who you think they might be. We got the first few werewolfs because of luck and a little knowledge. The last one will be very difficult to catch.

bilbo_baggins

[Firefoot]

I think the BW's idea of timing for the next game is a good one. It would keep the game moving without leaving 24 whole hours for the werewolves to make their decision (the whole time really isn't needed).

That's all. Carry on.

[mormegil]

Just count Firefoot's post as my opinion if I may add it too.

[Shelob]

Addressing the suggested time shift I'm willing to give it a shot in the next game (seeing as my corpse doesn't really care in this one).

I do, however, see one potential problem with this plan.

I spend a lot of time during the day at school (more than the average student because my mom works there and so I'm trapped in the accursed-parent-eating-building) and a fair bit of evening time at work, if a decision is made during the times I'm busy (so say between 8.00 and 15.00 a majority of the villagers vote for player X) I won't have been able to have a say because I'll have been trapped in classes and unable to post before the moderator anounces the decision and play moves into the next stage. Do you understand my concern?

Many Thanks.
Shelob

[bilbo_baggins]

I thought of the same thing. If the players posted in record time, the game could go through three phases in six hours.

Perhaps there would have to be a minimun time span before the next phase begins?

Just a thought.

[The Saucepan Man]

Since I will be moderating the next game of Werewolf, it falls to me to make a final decision on the timing. My thoughts are set out below, and will be implemented for the next game unless there are any strong (and valid) objections.

Taking into account the comments made so far, I suggest that DAY lasts a minimum of 12 hours and a maximum of 24 hours. This should give the Villagers ample time in which to discuss their thoughts, make their accusations and cast their votes. I am going to introduce a “no retractions” rule. In other words, once you cast your vote, you cannot retract it and vote for someone else. This is partly to discourage hasty voting and prevent “tactical” votes which are then retracted, but it also means that, once enough votes have been cast to condemn someone (ie a clear majority), that person will be lynched no matter what. If 12 hours have not passed at this point, then discussion may continue up to the 12 hour mark (and any unused votes may be cast, although they will not affect the result). But, if a clear majority has been reached and the 12 hours is up, then there should be no further discussion until the next DAY. I will not always be able to post the “lynch” result straight away, so it will be up to the players to keep an eye on the time and make sure that they observe this rule.

If a clear majority has not been reached by the end of the full 24 hours, then the person with the most votes at that point will be lynched. Any vote that has not been cast by that stage will be lost for that day (although it will not count as a vote against the non-voter). Again, there should be no further discussion once the 24 hours is up, even if there is a delay before the “lynch” result is announced. In the event of a tie, we could either have two lynchings or no lynching. My preference is for the former, but I am open to persuasion on this point.

NIGHT will last a maximum of 12 hours. Any night-time activities (Werewolf attacks, Seer dreams and others to be announced) that are not notified during this period will not take place. But there will be no minimum period for NIGHT. So, if I receive all the necessary notifications before the 12 hours is up, I will post the result as soon as I am able. Once that is done, the next DAY will commence.

Does that make sense? If anyone has any major problems with this proposal, please speak now or for ever hold your peace.

As hinted at above, I will be introducing additional roles for the next game …

[Anguirel]

Look forward to it, o Man of Many Saucepans. I'd like to charter myself a place for next time at once, if possible...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I agree with Anguirel. I'd like a spot in the next game too, if I can have one. And your rules sound good, Anguirel. One thing... I seem to remember one time the phantom mentioned that the game "mafia" has a healer/doctor. I don't remember if it was during this game, or at some other time, but would that be a consideration for our next?

Now, I must be off to a terrifyingly long day at school. I'll pop in and out, but no surprises to you all that I won't be on as much today. It's a busy day already, but I've got my very first art show tonight, plus work, plus work on an expansive project. I won't be home until pretty late.

[Shelob]

That sounds like a better plan, though I'm still slightly concerned with missing huge portions of what's going on...but I'm willing to see how it works in actual play and would, if I may, join Anguirel and Feanor in requesting a place in the next game.

My Thanks.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My concern there Saucepan Man is that you may be leaving it up to the players to decide (or to realise) when to stop a Day's discussion. Call me a spineless wretch if you must but I do appreciate having the moderator posting and spelling out in BIG BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS when and when not to talk!

Perhaps, and you might groan at this prospect, consider the time zones of the players and maybe post something like:

You have until 6:00 PM (that's 2:00 AM (or is it?) for you Brits) ...

... because I once spent approximately 15 minutes trying to figure out the time difference a couple of days ago (there's no hope for me, I know ).

But this game is still going; you're not recruiting for the next one already, are you? Keep in mind, all those lucky enough to play in the first game (with the obvious exception of Shelob), that other Downers want to play too.

[Mithalwen]

I will be glad to sit the next one out... it has taken over my life!!!

[The Barrow-Wight]

Keep in mind, all those lucky enough to play in the first game (with the obvious exception of Shelob), that other Downers want to play too.

Our first game started with the minimum 12 players, but Barrow-Downs Werewolf plays comfortably with up to 19 players, especially if we play with the accelerated timetable. Anyone who wants to play should sign up - no one will be turned away. And if we managed to get 24 or more people who want to play in the next game, I will run a second, simultaneous game beside The Saucepan Man's.

[Kuruharan]

In my newly cemented role as village idiot, the time change seems okay to me.

[The Saucepan Man]

My post was not intended to start a recruitment drive for the next game. I will open up the next game for players as and when this one is finished (although I have noted those who have expressed an interest).

On second thoughts, I am not so sure that the flexible timing works, as we may well end up with NIGHT spanning periods of time which are inconvenient to those whose roles require them to be active during the NIGHT. And if we had to vary the periods to suit particular people’s time considerations, that might well provide clues as to their identities.

I therefore think that we should still work on the basis of 12 hour cycles, with NIGHT lasting 12 hours and DAY lasting 12 or 24 hours, depending upon whether a clear majority is achieved in the first 12 hours (as per my previous post). That way, everyone will be clear at the outset when the “cross-over” time will be. I will in any event post the next deadline(s) when I post the results of the DAY’s voting or the NIGHT’s hunting.

As for time zones, I will be working in GMT (because that’s easiest for me). At the moment, GMT is 5 hours ahead of EST and 6 hours ahead of Central Time.

I’m proposing that the 12 hour cycle runs from 11 to 11 (GMT). So NIGHT 1 would start at 11PM GMT (6PM EST/5PM CT) and run through ‘til 11AM GMT the next day (6AM EST/5PM CT). DAY 1 would run from 11AM through to 11PM (if a clear majority was achieved by then) or through to 11AM the next day (if not). And so on …

The cycle will remain consistent regardless of when I post the results of the DAY’s/NIGHT’s events (which may, in practice, mean that people have slightly less than the full 12/24 hours).

Is that clear?

I’m off now, back to my shallow grave while the current game continues.

[The Barrow-Wight]

A bloodcurdling scream shocked the villagers into action just before dawn. Everyone emerged from their homes at almost exactly the same time, except for the phantom. His door remained shut, but it opened silently when pushed. Inside, the house was neat and clean, and a book lay open near the bed, but the building’s occupant was gone. Though they looked throughout the day and into the early evening, they found no trail of him, and the phantom was never seen in the village again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Living

• Oddwen
• Feanor of the Peredhil
• bilbo_baggins
• Kuruharan
• Mithalwen

Dead

• Shelob (Villager) - mangled by werewolves during Night 1
• Anguirel (Werewolf) - hanged on Day 1
• The Saucepan Man (Villager) – shredded and simmered by werewolves during Night 2
• Firefoot (Werewolf) - hanged on Day 2
• mormegil (The Seer) - shredded horrificallyby a werewolf on Night 3
• Primrose Bolger (Villager) – hanged on Day 3 on suspicion of being a werewolf
• the phantom (Villager) – gone missing on Night 4, presumed killed by werewolves

Score
Werewolves: 1
Villagers: 4


DAY begins at 6PM and ends at 6PM tomorrow. Have fun!

[The Barrow-Wight]

Five villagers and not a peep since the last murder. Are you guys having a staring contest??

[Kuruharan]

Yes.

Actually, I think we've reached the point in the game when we're all staring suspiciously at each other waiting for somebody to do something.

I have to go out for a bit, but when I get back, I have a theory to put before the jury.

[Oddwen]

I'm sorry I don't have time to expound, I can only say this:

The remaining werewolf probably guessed who he was and eliminated the threat.

This to me doesn't sound like Fea or Mith - and I must choose as I probably won't get another chance to vote -

++BILBO_BAGGINS

Sorry my fellow lurker, I hope I am wrong.

Why do I feel like I'm overlooking something?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Staring contest? Yeah... that sounds about right. Actually, I had an RL engagement that couldn't be avoided. If anyone cares, I won best in show.

I'm really bothered now that the phantom is gone. I thought for sure that Mithalwen was a shoo-in. Now, my overly-tired mind is saying to agree with whatever our fair lady says, and then screaming "Wait! She must have done it!" But since I'm so exhausted, I don't even know any more.

But, I'm having a thought here. I'll explain it in the morning, maybe (I will if I can scrounge up any free time). In the mean time, ++Bilbo Baggins. Sorry Bilbo, I'll explain after I log some beauty sleep.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Just so everyone knows, this game is still operating on the original timeframe. That means there is no minimum time (a majority = lynching) but there is a maximum (24 hrs, which = 6PM tomorrow). I'm not saying this to speed you up or slow you down. I just want to be clear that nothing has changed for this game.

[Kuruharan]

I had to ask myself something. And following along with my vow to toss logic out the window I’m going to try to make this as stretchy as possible.

Query: What is the best thing for a werewolf to do during the day?

Answer: Head for the tall grass.

Query: But isn’t this an excessively obvious defense, almost to the point of being unusable?

Answer: Probably.

Query: What would be the best way to shield oneself from suspicion on this count?

Answer: Popping in occasionally to put in an appearance and conversely reduce one’s profile.

Query: Do we have anyone around here who answers to that description?

Answer: Actually, we have two.

Now, the question becomes, which of the two to choose. To put the question another way, which one becomes more obvious by being less obvious?

Oddwen has been most conspicuous with her absence. However, her fingering Firefoot so early in the business seems to point away from her. I can’t think of a sensible reason why one werewolf would deliberately accuse a fellow werewolf…of course, not all the actions that have taken place here have been entirely sensible .

Like the above posters, this directs me back to the person of bilbo_baggins, about whom some suspicions were expressed in previous days. As I specifically noted back in post # 197…

bilbo_baggins made a fair amount of fuss and bother on DAY ONE and has gone suspicious quiet ever since. (Almost as if he took a hint from something.)

His activities seem to have taken the pattern of: stirring about, then a sharp reduction in activities, followed by a reemergence that was just enough to cause him to sink back into mental obscurity. He has given the appearance of bland cooperative non-committal throughout. As a matter of fact, since DAY ONE I can’t find that he’s said anything about anybody. He's just been around off and on. His accusations always seem to be hovering just over the horizon, always awaiting one further development...

Notice, back in post # 74, Primrose Bolger (about whom I feel a little guilty) said…

'Twas bilbo_baggins who came up with that reasoning. To throw us off the track, I think.

They'll be yammering away from the first, those shadowspawn will. Though, I'm thinking they'll let the innocent raise the alarm, then they'll stick their wolfish noses in . . . and all the while laughing at us, and licking their lips at the prospect of taking another down.

It's bilbo_baggins who bears watching in my mind.

However, I'm not feeling particularly hasty. I'm going to go sleep on it and see what council the morning light brings.

[Mithalwen]

Well this is a turn up.....and has me bewildered. No offence but I suspect you all. Even Oddwen who I suspected least is suspicious because of that.

Lets not be hasty.

Obviously a major question, at least for me is why did the Phantom die and not me? Actually I can see that is a question for the rest of you too, bar one, but the options are different.

Either Phantom was much closer to the truth than I - and after my big mistake over Primrose which I regret deeply (though I don't know I could have made a better choice on the evidence) was so off the pace to be more use than threat. Sadly I fear I might be too useful a tool for the wolf - someone who has gained a rep then lost her touch. Or we were equally dangerous but Phantom got the nod. While I was waiting to see what baroque death had taken me (as I thought) I even suspected the phantom. His approach was similar to mine which made me assume him innocent - but would I have played differently if were a werewolf? I don't know, and I realise that my continued, unlikely survival may cause suspicion to be cast on me. I know I am innocent but the only way to prove it is to find the true culprit. Time to review and decide later today.

[Mithalwen]

I suggest a discussion thread - all these arrangements for the next game are a bit of a distraction for htose of us still trying to play this one

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Staring contest? Yeah... that sounds about right. Actually, I had an RL engagement that couldn't be avoided. If anyone cares, I won best in show.

I'm really bothered now that the phantom is gone. I thought for sure that Mithalwen was a shoo-in. Now, my overly-tired mind is saying to agree with whatever our fair lady says, and then screaming "Wait! She must have done it!" But since I'm so exhausted, I don't even know any more.

But, I'm having a thought here. I'll explain it in the morning, maybe (I will if I can scrounge up any free time). In the mean time, ++Bilbo Baggins. Sorry Bilbo, I'll explain after I log some beauty sleep.

Okay, remember when I said that ^ ? I was almost asleep. But now I'm awake (mostly...) and my thought still seems pretty decent, even though it's really cold and heartless.

Oddwen
Feanor of the Peredhil
bilbo_baggins
Kuruharan
Mithalwen

These are these people still alive. I know that I'm innocent, and I'm pretty sure that Mithalwen is innocent. That means that whoever I pick, I have a 1:3 chance of being right about. Since I'm really suspicious of bilbo right now, that just meant that he fit nicely into that little one slot.

And just think... if we kill bilbo and I'm wrong, then tonight the werewolf will kill another innocent. That narrows the list of Alive down to three people. If I'm still alive, and Mith is still alive, that pretty much means I'll know who the werewolf is.

Mind you, this whole cold and heartless thought process works... but it would complicate it a lot if Mith turns out to be the baddie. Or if, you know, I die. Or Mith dies. I've got some loopholes to work out. But yeah, anyways... I got over my passionate pleas for let's not kill the innocent. No matter what, someone will die, so we may as well narrow it down. As long as the villagers win, there'll be a big party to celebrate the fact that not everyone died. And I like parties.

[bilbo_baggins]

I must say that I am sorry that my connection times have been strange, as my computer is failing miserably. I must say that if you want to kill me, please do. I might even vote for myself, to prove my innocence. But senseless killing lost us Primrose. I may remind you that you don't want the same thing to happen again.

And good faith with good faith, Fea? It seems that those who suffer, suffer all the more...

I must say that even if it gets me killed with a phantom vote for myself, I can't decide who is werewolf. There are too many possibilities in this end-game as it were.

I will not renunciate on my first opinions as those are usually right in most people's cases... So two of you are still innocent in my opinion. But I must say that the last werewolf is duecedly clever.

I don't think I will be able to vote before the time has been reached, and I might die then, so I must ++Mithalwen for seeming friendly yet not actually presenting evidence for opinions.

May my death show you I meant no harm.

bilbo_baggins

[Mithalwen]

Well thank you very much - the only time I was not explicit in my reasoning was when I had no time to explain why I opted for Firefoot and it would have implicated the person I thought to be a seer. However I am not vengeful and it is extremely inlikely that you will be my choice though I am yet to review. It looks as if mine will be a lone vote ... but AS ALWAYS I will explain...