Vague Descriptions - Page 6 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-22-2008, 10:19 AM

The disease (as you may logically conclude from what I said) is specifically named in the books. So it is not "some disease" (unspecified) nor "catomisia"

(something whose name you just make up without any support for it in the text) but something named in the book.

Okay, another hint (though I am not sure if it will help or if it will confuse things more

If it seemed confusing to you, you would perhaps do better by ignoring it): There was a certain group of inhabitants of M-E who all had this disease by default. (This person, who is the subject of the question, was not one of them, though.)

Gollum the Great · 11-22-2008, 07:55 PM

You've got to be making this up, Legate.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-23-2008, 10:16 AM

No way, my good Gollum. Okay, another hint. One of the group mentioned above died recently before the person in question left its home place. These events were closely related (not totally, like one being consequence of the other, but simply related to each other). And, to add, the death of this one mentioned above was not a result of the disease. The disease itself is not lethal. But very often throughout the history of M-E, somebody died as an outcome of that disease. However, it was not the disease itself that killed them.

That's a lot of hints, I'd say. Try to put all the evidence together and try to think.

And remember, still: we are looking for one certain person about whom we read as being vulnerable to this disease. (Like I said, there were many who had this disease, and probably also some who were vulnerable to it, but about this one we know because the book says it.)

Thinlómien · 11-23-2008, 02:44 PM

I can only think of the Sackville-Bagginses and their sort of cleptomania

, but that does not fit more than maybe half of the hints...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-23-2008, 02:48 PM

No, but actually, you are far, far closer to the correct answer than all of those who posted here this far have been. You are very, very close, from several aspects.

The Might · 11-23-2008, 03:57 PM

Cleptomania?

Well, actually I was going to say Sméagol curious "disease" of greedily wanting mroe presents for himself.

After all this affected all Hobbits, and because of it he eventually had to move far away from his home place, but did not die because of it... well ok, maybe he did.

But anyway, since you said the person did not belong to the group of people affected by it by default it cannon be right...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-24-2008, 03:45 AM

Indeed, it isn't Sméagol. You are heading in the right direction, though. Now I think this is the time to emphasise the important thing from the original question: it is really explicitely said in the book that this person was vulnerable to some sort of disease. In the italicised part, I am not making up any metaphores of my own, I am merely recounting what the book says at some point.

And the person about whom this whole question is, just to remind of it because all the hints may have created a bit of confusing atmosphere, did not die because of this disease - at least it is not said in the books.

The Might · 11-24-2008, 07:11 AM

Wait, wait, you're tricky.
Looking for what you speak of, I cam across this quote from the UT:

Quote:

In a letter written in September 1954 my father said: "At the beginning of the Second Age he [Sauron] was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape – and was not indeed wholly evil, not unless all 'reformers' who want to hurry up with 'reconstruction' and 'reorganization' are wholly evil, even before pride and the lust to exert their will eat them up. The particular branch of the High Elves concerned, the Noldor or Loremasters, were always vulnerable on the side of 'science and technology,' as we should call it: they wanted to have the knowledge that Sauron genuinely had, and those of Eregion refused the warnings of Gil-galad and Elrond. The particular 'desire' of the Eregion Elves – an 'allegory' if you like of a love of machinery, and technical devices – is also symbolized by their special friendship with the Dwarves of Moria." ~ note 8 of Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn

Ok, so this a kind of "disease", somewhat like Sméagol's greed for treasure, their greed for knowledge.

Now, who could still be like that... Saruman?

Thinlómien · 11-24-2008, 11:38 AM

Wow, Might, I would think you're right, except that I'm not sure if this hint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate

6. We actually don't know anything about the person since it caught this disease.

fits.

And what about this hint?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate, bolding mine

One of the group mentioned above died recently before the person in question left its home place. These events were closely related (not totally, like one being consequence of the other, but simply related to each other). And, to add, the death of this one mentioned above was not a result of the disease. The disease itself is not lethal. But very often throughout the history of M-E, somebody died as an outcome of that disease. However, it was not the disease itself that killed them.

It almost fits, but doesn't. Or then I'm just a little slow.

I guess we must just wait for Legate to come and tell you whether you're correct or not...

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-24-2008, 12:04 PM

Exactly, it doesn't fit at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Might

Wait, wait, you're tricky.
Looking for what you speak of, I cam across this quote from the UT:

Ok, so this a kind of "disease", somewhat like Sméagol's greed for treasure, their greed for knowledge.

Now, who could still be like that... Saruman?

And again, I did not possibly emphasise enough, or express clearly what I wanted to emphasise: I am stating only what is in the books. If I say it is a disease, it is a disease according to the books. In the context you quote, there is nothing about the lust for knowledge being a disease, or is it? It isn't. If you found it being called a disease, fine. But since you didn't, keep looking for a disease.

The Might · 11-25-2008, 08:09 AM

Aha!

I think I have it... you truly are tricky with your questions, but I enjoy them I must admit.

Ok, so my answer is the the Master of Lake Town.

Quote:

The old Master had come to a bad end. Bard had given him much gold for the help of the Lake-people, but being of the kind that easily catches such disease he fell under the dragon-sickness, and took most of the gold and fled with it, and died of starvation in the Waste, deserted by his companions. ~ TH

1. There was a person.
2. This person was vulnerable to a certain kind of disease.
3. This disease is a kind you won't usually find in a medic's handbook.
4. It caused this person, eventually, to move far from this person's home place.
5. That person did not die because of the disease, as far as we know.

It fits with all, as he did get the disease, it is in no medic's handbook, it caused him to go to the Northern Wastes and nothing was heard of him afterwards. Although he did die of starvation, it was not the disease which caused it. And since it is said he was "of the kind" he did belong to people having this by default.

If this is wrong too, I'll first buy me a hat, then eat it.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-25-2008, 11:17 AM

No need to buy a hat, and the less to eat it

Well done! The Master of Laketown, what a nice figure, eh?

And... eeeeek... only now I looked at when the question was posted here in the first place... two days ago, it was exactly a year

Oh my, I didn't think it was that long...

Please post a new one, Miggy. I hope it will take less time to solve...

The Might · 11-25-2008, 03:51 PM

Yay, me!
This brings the lore-score to Legate 100 - 1 Might.

No, seriously, now that I got I realise I should have done better to find that out. I'll try to figure something out, though I doubt it will be nearly as impressive.

Thinlómien · 12-16-2008, 12:00 PM

*knock knock* Anybody home?

The Might · 12-17-2008, 04:29 AM

Sorry, forgot about this one, I'll post a new one shortly.

The Might · 12-18-2008, 02:57 AM

Chosen because he liked the Sea.

Folwren · 12-18-2008, 09:20 AM

Hi! I just popped in to see what was up.

I have no Tolkien books with me, so without knowing if I'm even close to being right and being fully prepared to be told I am wrong, I will guess:

Cirdan the Shipwright.

Beregond · 12-18-2008, 11:53 AM

I think you're intimating Voronwe...

The Might · 12-18-2008, 03:44 PM

Bah, Beregond has it right... and so quickly! Kudos!

Beregond · 12-19-2008, 12:26 AM

Yay!

You know that guy who was a prince? He had an unprecedented name.

~

The Might · 12-19-2008, 04:38 AM

Galador, first prince of Dol Amroth.
He was prince and noone else had this name.

Beregond · 12-19-2008, 09:37 AM

Perhaps true, but not who I was looking for.

The Might · 12-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Well, guess I'll try again then.

What about Peregrin Took, referred to as "Prince of the Halflings"? He is the only one with that name, and there never was any other Hobbit with this "title", neither before nor after Pippin.

Beregond · 12-19-2008, 06:57 PM

Interesting answer, but not what I was thinking.

I think my description was too vague.

The Might · 12-19-2008, 07:05 PM

Ok, what about Faramir, Prince of Ithilien?
(btw, I am running out of true princes here)

Beregond · 12-19-2008, 07:09 PM

There are many true Princes! Not all of them remained so.

Oh, not Faramir, no.

Ilya · 12-19-2008, 10:18 PM

Hmm, how about Vinitharya, Eldacar's name when he was a prince?

Beregond · 12-19-2008, 10:49 PM

Nay. This prince was unique in more ways than one. Long life in his veins would run.

The Might · 12-20-2008, 09:57 AM

Your question still remains very, very, vague, as I probably could give several answers that would all perfectly fit the description.

Ok, what about Maglor?
- name unprecedented
- prince of the Noldor
- he theoretically could still be living today in the Seventh Age, all that is told is that he never returned amongst the Elves

Beregond · 12-20-2008, 10:37 AM

No... (that always intrigued me; where would Maglor go? How long could he wander alone?)

This new age prince was by parentage unique. His father died a free death.

Ilya · 12-21-2008, 12:47 AM

Dior, perhaps? The first child of elves and men.

Beregond · 12-21-2008, 09:22 AM

Nay, but on the right track.

Ilya · 12-21-2008, 07:39 PM

Hmm...perhaps Vardamir, the son of Elros?

Beregond · 12-21-2008, 07:58 PM

Off the track again. My my, I didn't intend this to be so hard...

This future King's lands encompassed even the little people.

The Might · 12-21-2008, 08:01 PM

Ah then what about Aragorn's son Eldarion?

Beregond · 12-21-2008, 08:08 PM

No, not Elda.... wait...YES, YES, that's him! Eldarion, Prince of Gondor, whose name means "Scion of the Eldar" I believe, and who's parents were very distinct, being a man and an elf. Aragorn his father relinquished the throne to Eldarion and died naturally like his sires of old. The odds are in favour of Eldarion inheriting long life.

And so the torch passes to you, TM!

The Might · 12-25-2008, 10:06 AM

Remember the place where all but one lie?

Thinlómien · 12-25-2008, 02:00 PM

Possibly Cabed-en-Aras, or its surroundings?

The Might · 12-25-2008, 09:17 PM

Nope.

Thinlómien · 12-26-2008, 02:52 PM

Then hat about the burial mounds of the Kings of the Rohirrim?

11-22-2008, 10:19 AM	#201
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	The disease (as you may logically conclude from what I said) is specifically named in the books. So it is not "some disease" (unspecified) nor "catomisia" (something whose name you just make up without any support for it in the text) but something named in the book. Okay, another hint (though I am not sure if it will help or if it will confuse things more If it seemed confusing to you, you would perhaps do better by ignoring it): There was a certain group of inhabitants of M-E who all had this disease by default. (This person, who is the subject of the question, was not one of them, though.) __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-22-2008, 07:55 PM	#202
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 386	You've got to be making this up, Legate. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

11-23-2008, 10:16 AM	#203
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	No way, my good Gollum. Okay, another hint. One of the group mentioned above died recently before the person in question left its home place. These events were closely related (not totally, like one being consequence of the other, but simply related to each other). And, to add, the death of this one mentioned above was not a result of the disease. The disease itself is not lethal. But very often throughout the history of M-E, somebody died as an outcome of that disease. However, it was not the disease itself that killed them. That's a lot of hints, I'd say. Try to put all the evidence together and try to think. And remember, still: we are looking for one certain person about whom we read as being vulnerable to this disease. (Like I said, there were many who had this disease, and probably also some who were vulnerable to it, but about this one we know because the book says it.) __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-23-2008, 02:44 PM	#204
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	I can only think of the Sackville-Bagginses and their sort of cleptomania , but that does not fit more than maybe half of the hints... __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

11-23-2008, 02:48 PM	#205
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	No, but actually, you are far, far closer to the correct answer than all of those who posted here this far have been. You are very, very close, from several aspects. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-23-2008, 03:57 PM	#206
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Cleptomania? Well, actually I was going to say Sméagol curious "disease" of greedily wanting mroe presents for himself. After all this affected all Hobbits, and because of it he eventually had to move far away from his home place, but did not die because of it... well ok, maybe he did. But anyway, since you said the person did not belong to the group of people affected by it by default it cannon be right... __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

11-24-2008, 03:45 AM	#207
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Indeed, it isn't Sméagol. You are heading in the right direction, though. Now I think this is the time to emphasise the important thing from the original question: it is really explicitely said in the book that this person was vulnerable to some sort of disease. In the italicised part, I am not making up any metaphores of my own, I am merely recounting what the book says at some point. And the person about whom this whole question is, just to remind of it because all the hints may have created a bit of confusing atmosphere, did not die because of this disease - at least it is not said in the books. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-25-2008, 11:17 AM	#212
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	No need to buy a hat, and the less to eat it Well done! The Master of Laketown, what a nice figure, eh? And... eeeeek... only now I looked at when the question was posted here in the first place... two days ago, it was exactly a year Oh my, I didn't think it was that long... Please post a new one, Miggy. I hope it will take less time to solve... __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-25-2008, 03:51 PM	#213
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Yay, me! This brings the lore-score to Legate 100 - 1 Might. No, seriously, now that I got I realise I should have done better to find that out. I'll try to figure something out, though I doubt it will be nearly as impressive. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-16-2008, 12:00 PM	#214
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	knock knock Anybody home? __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

12-17-2008, 04:29 AM	#215
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Sorry, forgot about this one, I'll post a new one shortly. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-18-2008, 02:57 AM	#216
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Chosen because he liked the Sea. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-18-2008, 09:20 AM	#217
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Hi! I just popped in to see what was up. I have no Tolkien books with me, so without knowing if I'm even close to being right and being fully prepared to be told I am wrong, I will guess: Cirdan the Shipwright. __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

12-18-2008, 11:53 AM	#218
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	I think you're intimating Voronwe... __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-18-2008, 03:44 PM	#219
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Bah, Beregond has it right... and so quickly! Kudos! __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-19-2008, 12:26 AM	#220
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Yay! *You know that guy who was a prince? He had an unprecedented name.* ~ __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." Last edited by Beregond; 12-19-2008 at 09:36 AM.

12-19-2008, 04:38 AM	#221
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Galador, first prince of Dol Amroth. He was prince and noone else had this name. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-19-2008, 09:37 AM	#222
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Perhaps true, but not who I was looking for. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-19-2008, 06:53 PM	#223
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Well, guess I'll try again then. What about Peregrin Took, referred to as "Prince of the Halflings"? He is the only one with that name, and there never was any other Hobbit with this "title", neither before nor after Pippin. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-19-2008, 06:57 PM	#224
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Interesting answer, but not what I was thinking. I think my description was too vague. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-19-2008, 07:05 PM	#225
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Ok, what about Faramir, Prince of Ithilien? (btw, I am running out of true princes here) __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-19-2008, 07:09 PM	#226
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	There are many true Princes! Not all of them remained so. Oh, not Faramir, no. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-19-2008, 10:18 PM	#227
Ilya Wight Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: In the cold Posts: 202	Hmm, how about Vinitharya, Eldacar's name when he was a prince? __________________ Arvedui III has walked to Rivendell!

12-19-2008, 10:49 PM	#228
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Nay. This prince was unique in more ways than one. Long life in his veins would run. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." Last edited by Beregond; 12-19-2008 at 10:53 PM.

12-20-2008, 09:57 AM	#229
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Your question still remains very, very, vague, as I probably could give several answers that would all perfectly fit the description. Ok, what about Maglor? - name unprecedented - prince of the Noldor - he theoretically could still be living today in the Seventh Age, all that is told is that he never returned amongst the Elves __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-20-2008, 10:37 AM	#230
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	No... (that always intrigued me; where would Maglor go? How long could he wander alone?) This new age prince was by parentage unique. His father died a free death. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-21-2008, 12:47 AM	#231
Ilya Wight Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: In the cold Posts: 202	Dior, perhaps? The first child of elves and men. __________________ Arvedui III has walked to Rivendell!

12-21-2008, 09:22 AM	#232
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Nay, but on the right track. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-21-2008, 07:39 PM	#233
Ilya Wight Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: In the cold Posts: 202	Hmm...perhaps Vardamir, the son of Elros? __________________ Arvedui III has walked to Rivendell!

12-21-2008, 07:58 PM	#234
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Off the track again. My my, I didn't intend this to be so hard... This future King's lands encompassed even the little people. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-21-2008, 08:01 PM	#235
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Ah then what about Aragorn's son Eldarion? __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-21-2008, 08:08 PM	#236
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	No, not Elda.... wait...YES, YES, that's him! Eldarion, Prince of Gondor, whose name means "Scion of the Eldar" I believe, and who's parents were very distinct, being a man and an elf. Aragorn his father relinquished the throne to Eldarion and died naturally like his sires of old. The odds are in favour of Eldarion inheriting long life. And so the torch passes to you, TM! __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

12-25-2008, 10:06 AM	#237
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Remember the place where all but one lie? __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

12-25-2008, 02:00 PM	#238
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Possibly Cabed-en-Aras, or its surroundings? __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

12-25-2008, 09:17 PM	#239
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Nope. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown