Riddles in the Downs

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So how about this


Boromir - beloved sibling lost, his name means 'beloved jewel', if I remember correctly


Finduilas - The like-named maiden


Denethor - The one who died in a fire


Eowyn - The golden girl woken from sleep (and she could also be the monster slayer, in case the guess below doesn't work)



Merry - The Monster slayer


The faithful warden - Bergil


The one trapped on rock - Beregond (gond means rock)


The 'stern one hiding grief' could also refer to Denethor.

Almost all correct, including the fact that some characters appear twice- and you've identified all of them.

I may as well give you the whole thing, or rather Faramir's half of it:

The one trapped on a rock -Finduilas of Dol Amroth, who "withered in the guarded city, as a flower of the seaward vales set upon a barren rock."
The beloved sibling lost -Boromir.
The one who died by fire -Denethor.
The like-named maiden -Finduilas, again.
The stern one, hiding grief -Denethor, again.
The gold girl, waked from sleep -Éowyn.
The monster-slayer -Éowyn, again.
And the faithful warden. -Beregond.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Well done, Urwen!

Eowyn's grandmother is named Morwen, and I note that Finduilas of Dol Amroth is the younger sister to Ivriniel, which is a name derived from the same source as Faelivrin; what I'm getting at is that Finduilas and her sister were both named for the same person ('like-named').

... okay. If Boromir and Finduilas are correct, that makes 8 (since neither of them had been previously mentioned); so we have the full list somewhere.

Guesses before the 6/8:

• On a rock - Maedhros, Hurin
• Beloved sibling - Lalaith
• Died by fire - Aerin
• Like-named - Arien, Rian (stated to be wrong)
• Stern - Morwen
• Gold - Nienor Niniel
• Monster-slayer - Turin
• Warden - Mablung, Huor

I think #4 has to be Finduilas - we know she's a correct answer, and I don't think she fits anywhere else (plus we don't have a valid answer there). And #2 is confirmed as Boromir (who is named after Boromir, 1st Lord of Ladros, great-grandson of Beor, thank you very much ).

Hurin the Tall was Warden of the Keys during the War of the Ring; Faramir would have known him in his childhood.

hS

And this list, also, is nearly all correct. In fact, you're only missing one person.

But... how can this be???

[Nerwen]

My apologies to Boromir of Ladros... but clearly I couldn't have been thinking of him, could I?

[Urwen]

Take a crack at this one


I had love once, I've had joy
I've had everything I needed
And now I realize, that at that moment
I should've done as they had asked

I'm no hero
No songs will sing about me or mine
I am the one who started it all
For better or for worse

I've wanted revenge
I've wanted what should be mine
Yet in the end I got neither
Instead I got to die

It's too late now
And I can't go back
For I've given up everything
So I could have this one thing


I would say 'good luck', but you don't need it, and you'll probably give the answer soon.

[Huinesoron]

One last post from me for Nerwen's:

Uh-oh.

So... is Faramir talking to Turin Turambar? They are both of the House of Hurin (they 'share a name'), and Turin has people that fit in all those slots, like Faramir.

• On a rock - Hurin
• Beloved sibling - Lalaith
• Died by fire - Aerin
• Like-named - Finduilas
• Stern - Morwen
• Gold - Nienor Niniel
• Monster-slayer - Beleg, who killed a whole bunch of wolves to save Turin.
• Warden - Mablung, who after losing Morwen and Nienor devoted his life to finding them.

But though Turin's line died out, as Faramir says, "I have a son..."

hS

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

One last post from me for Nerwen's:

Uh-oh.

So... is Faramir talking to Turin Turambar? They are both of the House of Hurin (they 'share a name'), and Turin has people that fit in all those slots, like Faramir.

• On a rock - Hurin
• Beloved sibling - Lalaith
• Died by fire - Aerin
• Like-named - Finduilas
• Stern - Morwen
• Gold - Nienor Niniel
• Monster-slayer - Beleg, who killed a whole bunch of wolves to save Turin.
• Warden - Mablung, who after losing Morwen and Nienor devoted his life to finding them.

But though Turin's line died out, as Faramir says, "I have a son..."

hS

Exactly right (except Túrin himself is the "monster-slayer"- remember I said some characters appear twice and Beleg the "faithful warden").

Well done, both of you! (Edit: and Pervinca, who guessed most of the Túrin answers immediately).

[Galadriel55]

Ohh, so "we" is Faramir and Turin Turambar? I was confused about what tied the characters together. They actually do share a lot of character names among related people. That's a very clever observation and riddle!

[Huinesoron]

Moving on to this one:

Originally Posted by Urwen

Take a crack at this one


I had love once, I've had joy
I've had everything I needed
And now I realize, that at that moment
I should've done as they had asked

I'm no hero
No songs will sing about me or mine
I am the one who started it all
For better or for worse

I've wanted revenge
I've wanted what should be mine
Yet in the end I got neither
Instead I got to die

It's too late now
And I can't go back
For I've given up everything
So I could have this one thing


I would say 'good luck', but you don't need it, and you'll probably give the answer soon.

'No songs' &c is ringing a faint bell, but I'm not sure it's a Tolkien bell.

A lot of this has a Gollum feel to it, but of course, he did get what he wanted in the end.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ohh, so "we" is Faramir and Turin Turambar? I was confused about what tied the characters together. They actually do share a lot of character names among related people. That's a very clever observation and riddle!

Thanks- it's really more about descriptors than names, actually, though I couldn't pass up Finduilas and the House of Húrin.

Now, as to the new riddle, I confess to not having any clear ideas yet.

These lines-

And now I realise, that at that moment
I should've done as they had asked

I'm no hero
No songs will be sung about me or mine

I am the one who started it all

and

For I've given up everything
So I could have this one thing

feel like they should hold the key to it.

I wonder is the speaker "no hero" because of obscurity, or infamy?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Thanks- it's really more about descriptors than names, actually, though I couldn't pass up Finduilas and the House of Húrin.

Now, as to the new riddle, I confess to not having any clear ideas yet.

These lines-

And now I realise, that at that moment
I should've done as they had asked

I'm no hero
No songs will be sung about me or mine

I am the one who started it all

and

For I've given up everything
So I could have this one thing

feel like they should hold the key to it.

I wonder is the speaker "no hero" because of obscurity, or infamy?

You're correct. Those lines are the key.



(The speaker could be 'infamous', but I guess it depends on your points of view)

[Nerwen]

And the first two lines refer to a specific point in time ("that moment") when the speaker made a presumably fateful bad decision?

[Galadriel55]

Knowing your love for First Age characters, I wanna guess Maeglin.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And the first two lines refer to a specific point in time ("that moment") when the speaker made a presumably fateful bad decision?

Yup

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Knowing your love for First Age characters, I wanna guess Maeglin.

I already used him as the riddle answer recently. I won't do it again while he is still fresh in people's memories.

[Urwen]

It just occurred to me that this line could be slightly misleading.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So I could have this one thing

[Galadriel55]

Cersei Lannister, as we all would like to see her end up.


Actually though, Feanor? Though can't say he's that "unsung" and infamous - his name is still honoured. But he did start preeety much the history of ME as we know it, and especially the First Age shenanigans. If he'd only listened and given the Silmarils over, and not followed Morgoth to Beleriand to get them back...

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Cersei Lannister, as we all would like to see her end up.


Actually though, Feanor? Though can't say he's that "unsung" and infamous - his name is still honoured. But he did start preeety much the history of ME as we know it, and especially the First Age shenanigans. If he'd only listened and given the Silmarils over, and not followed Morgoth to Beleriand to get them back...

Well, you're not wrong.....


And there were quite a number of people who hated him, I believe.



(And I did say that 'infamous' part would depend on your points of view.

[Urwen]

And he did do some morally questionable stuff.


Then again, maybe I should've worded it differently....

[Galadriel55]

Sooo... is that a yes or a no? Or a not quite there?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Sooo... is that a yes or a no? Or a not quite there?

Well, that's who I had in mind, so unless I changed my mind/was replaced by an impostor, it's a yes.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, that's who I had in mind, so unless I changed my mind/was replaced by an impostor, it's a yes.

Should we be concerned?


I maybe shouldn't have answered that quickly cause I didn't have anything good prepared, but this is a quick simple one (which also means you have to match an explanation to each clue!).


I pace. I recommence. I am a rock.
My limbs are long, and they have wings.
An eagle myself,
Eagle lord's son, Elf-child's father.

[Urwen]

My guess is Aragorn


I pace. (Strider)
I recommence. (Envinyatar)
I am a rock. (Elessar)
My limbs are long, and they have wings. (Longshanks, Wingfoot)
An eagle myself, (Thorongil)
Eagle lord's son, Elf-child's father. (Arathorn's son, Eldarion's father)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

My guess is Aragorn


I pace. (Strider)
I recommence. (Envinyatar)
I am a rock. (Elessar)
My limbs are long, and they have wings. (Longshanks, Wingfoot)
An eagle myself, (Thorongil)
Eagle lord's son, Elf-child's father. (Arathorn's son, Eldarion's father)

Exactly!

[Urwen]

I thought none of your riddles were about people?


Here's hoping that this one lasts for more than a day



I was called White
I knew the White
White had left me
And returned to me

I knew the elf born twice
I knew his friend, who played the flute
I knew the one turned traitor
And the one who killed him too

Then that fateful day came
And no one could do a thing
Some tried to fight on
So others could flee

Everyone I knew was gone
And I was left all alone
Yet there remained a spark
Which could dismantle the dark

[Nerwen]

Interesting. I believe the individuals referenced are (in order) Aredhel, Glorfindel, Ecthelion, Maeglin and Tuor, making the "fateful day" the fall of Gondolin- but who is the speaker?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Interesting. I believe the individuals referenced are (in order) Aredhel, Glorfindel, Ecthelion, Maeglin and Tuor, making the "fateful day" the fall of Gondolin- but who is the speaker?

You already gave the answer to your own question.

[Nerwen]

Do you mean it's Gondolin itself?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I thought none of your riddles were about people?

And all of yours are? We have to break the pattern every now and again to keep people on their toes, eh?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Do you mean it's Gondolin itself?

Yup, that's exactly what I meant.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And all of yours are? We have to break the pattern every now and again to keep people on their toes, eh?

[Nerwen]

Now, you two, no quarrelling. The important thing to remember any one of us would have aced the original Riddle Game. Gollum wouldn't get any of these references.

Anyway-

I embrace you;
Come, we must hurry less they chase you,
Come, where the running waters race you.
Though my fragrance may torment you
Everlastingly, I've sent you
On to where your fate awaits you.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, you two, no quarrelling. The important thing to remember any one of us would have aced the original Riddle Game. Gollum wouldn't get any of these references.

Anyway-

I embrace you;
Come, we must hurry less they chase you,
Come, where the running waters race you.
Though my fragrance may torment you
Everlastingly, I've sent you
On to where your fate awaits you.

Arwen?

[Nerwen]

Nope.

[Urwen]

Something to do with Frodo, I think


Athelas?

[Nerwen]

Nope.

[Galadriel55]

Failing to identify good candidates for the running waters line (Boromir? Barrels? Nienor? dunno), I started thinking about fragrances and came up with UGLUK, talking to Merry and Pippin.

(The orcs did hurry the hobbits to Fangorn where they begin to do their work in shaping history, and the hobbits did tend to recall the stink as a prominent feature of the memory)

[Nerwen]

That's a good one- but still nope. Nobody's close yet.

[Nerwen]

Although you are guessing the right Age, anyway.

[Nerwen]

Hint: third line is not just a throwaway.

Edit: Hint 2: G55's guess, though it would be misleading to call it close, does show the right way of thinking- the identity of the "speaker" is rather left-field, and the emphasis of the whole is indeed, "you didn't enjoy it, but I brought you to where you needed, or wanted to be".

I think that's enough hints for now.

[Urwen]

Piggybacking off of G55's guess, the Palantir of Orthanc? It brought Pippin to Gondor, through the set of circumstances.

[Nerwen]

Still no.

All the lines mean something- try looking at it with that in mind.