Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Glirdan]

Wait, you're telling me the suicidal one is modding next!? Oooo!! This should be interesting!! Let me in!!

[Meneltarmacil]

Sorry, I'm not going to be able to play. I have many weekend retreats/vacations/etc. coming up, so finding the tiime to play will be difficult.

[Holbytlass]

I can't recall if this has been discussed in werewolf but in wwjr, the game that is playing now The Broken Souls, there are 2 (true) seers. Ironically enough I was one and got killed after I got killed from this one . Anyway the two seers worked as a team-PMing only at night and dreaming of one person. There were 15 players with hunter, ranger and 3 wolves. It doesn't mean an automatic win for the innocents (and we wouldn't want that) but it seems to balance a little better. I just thought I'd throw that out.

[Caranlondien]

I have been lurking throughout the last game and greatly enjoyed it; Congratulations to the werewolves for an excellently played game... Can I sign up for the next one?

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I suppose that I ought to open up the debate on hidden messages.

My own view is that nothing in this regard should be ruled out. For Wolves, deception and bluff are the name fo the game, and for innocents and Gifteds, hidden messages may also have their uses. Past games have seen Gifted hints dropped through the use of particular words, word combinations and icons. I see little difference between this and innocents using coded messages (acrostics, anagrams and the like) to declare their innocence.

Given the nature of the game, coded messages can, in any event, no more be relied on than an open declaration of innocence (or Gifted-ness). So I am not sure how they affect the game any more than the standard use of hidden messages.

The other aspect of the debate, I suppose, is whether players should use ploys which only those who have played with them in previous games will recognise (such as Nilp and I exchanging anagrams). Again, I see little difference here than using ones' knowledge of peoples' playing styles etc from previous games to make deductions.

But I think that the most difficult issue here is where, if we start ruling out particular ways of communicating or certain ruse, the line should be drawn. Each game would require a plethora of rules as to what may be done and what may not and there would no doubt be matters arising which were not covered by those rules or which fell into grey areas.

So, my own view is that, subject to those rules which have already been established as standard (no PMs except where specifically allowed, no discussing the game outside the game threads, strict honesty in the admin thread etc), the game does not require further regulation.

Clearly, it will be up to the mod of each game to set the rules as they see fit, but I nevertheless think it useful, given the issue that arose in WWXVIII, for those who have views on these questions to air them here, before the next game starts.

[Boromir88]

Well if we are opening the forum to that...

At first I was feeling the same as lmp, I think my initial reaction was that it would take away the enjoyment of the game from being able to spot a wolf from an innocent villager. I mean I was thinking what would the game turn out to be like if the villagers all sent out coded messages of their innocence, then to me it would make it less enjoyable, because it would take away from the guessing and more or less randomness.

Then after a little discussion with morm and some time I realized:

1) You have to spot the anagram. Even if I went out looking for them I wouldn't be able to find them, I'm never good at coded/secret messaged, I'm far more blatant if you can't tell. Like hit you in the face blatant .

2) Then you have to believe it and it's not a wolf masking itself so to say.

So when I thought about it, it didn't take away from the nature of the game, the nature of guessing. Because, you have to believe it and I would hold wolfish voting behaviour, or other signs of lycanthropy over any secret message (if I could find one).

[Aiwendil]

I'm (as usual, it seems) in agreement with The Saucepan Man. Trying to regulate such hints would be a very messy business. For one thing, to enforce it, the moderator would have to search carefully through each post for any sign of anagrams, acrostics, or the like.

I also think that the game that's just finished provides adequate evidence of the fallibility of such methods. Both SpM and I lied via anagram.

[Meneltarmacil]

I also agree that hidden messages have their uses. It complies with the established rules that you can say you're the Seer/Hunter/Ordo/etc. under the condition that no PMs or things that absolutely prove you're that person can be revealed. As for how one reveals oneself, that isn't discussed.

Also, this does not give one side a clear advantage over the other, since the Wolves can also pick up on cryptic hints and use them to identify potential threats.

[Shelob]

Speaking as an all-powerful mod who witnessed this I must say that I could easily see both sides of the secret message issue...however so far as that went it took everything in my power not to post a general "Are you people CRAZY? Saucepan Man's a WOLF, don't trust him!" Once I got over that reaction I must say I didn't see any need for limiting the use of similar messages. It just didn't seem practical because I could clearly see how they were not a one sided deal.

True, the messages stated that a player was innocent. However the player wasn't. If Sauce hadn't told Nilp he was innocent through the message he may have been more serious suspected. The messages work both ways, they could harm wolves if all the innocents were going around saying "Look at me, I'm not a wolf!" but then again it could just as easily be a message which saves a wolf.


Given that the secret messages are basically just an evolution of the point of the game it seems to me that the bigger, perhaps deeper, issue here is the evolution of this game and it's players. Nilpaurion and Saucepan Man had used similar secret messages before, they could recognize them when they saw them and could then use the messages to influence their play. Others could not. When the WereWolf Junior games started many "senior" players stressed that the games should not be considered "junior" and "senior" but rather simply two sides of the same thing. Certainly no one would argue that all new players must play x-number of WWJ games before moving onto the full Tol-in-Gaurhoth version, just as any experienced player is not restricted from WWJ games.

If we wish to consider the use or restriction of secret messages I think we need to consider the "junior" and "senior" issue again. Ignoring the obvious/not-obvious natures of various secret messages (I caught acrostics all but instatnly but didn't catch anagrams until they were pointed out, simply because acrostics are easier for me and, so far as I'm concerned, more "obvious"), anyway, ignoring that the only way a player will catch the messages is if they're familiar with the previous use of similar messages. Littleman Poet wasn't expecting messages to be passed in such a way because he hadn't seen something like it before and so he was indignent when he learned of it, but would anyone say that he must be restricted to WWJ games because he hasn't got enough expierience? I should hope not.


I will not say that that is the only way to look at this, I will not even say that it is, in truth, even anywhere near the most important way. I simply bring it up because to me if one will argue that "secret messages" are against the spirit of the game one must really question what will and will not be allowed. A game in which no one but gifteds can leave hints will leave the gifteds glaringly obvious. To avoid that a game in which no one can leave hints defeats the purpose, a player would have to spend more time editing their posts to ensure that there is not phrasing or accidental suggestion that they are innocent and wouldn't be able to really focus on finding wolves. And what would you have to work form in such a case anyway, a voting record? Any player who has played at least one game will argue that a voting record tells you very little on it's own, to find wolves one must look not only at the record but also at what everyone has said, if all people can say is "Shelob's vote looks suspicious" you are still working from only the voting record, it's just been dressed up a bit.

I still wish to hear from Littleman Poet, it may be I have misinterrpreted his reasons for not wanting the hinting and if that's the case it may be my argument is not relevent to the issue at hand. However I felt it should be said, what's at stake here isn't "was that cheating?" it's how we wish to see the game played in the future. Go look at the first game, it varies hugely from how games now are played but I don't think anyone would claim that it is wrong. The game has just evolved since then, and it evolves with each new game, each combination of players, and the conclusions we draw from each new Death.

I hope that it either makes sense or helps (preferably both, in reality), but even if it doesn't...

[littlemanpoet]

Initially I had felt betrayed..... but that was based on the assumption that Lhuna, Nilp, & SPM were all innocents, holding secrets from a fellow innocent (me ). More fool me, it never occurred to me until I "poofed", that just maybe SPM was a werewolf after all, like I had hunched at the very beginning. Once I accepted that possibility, my view on "codes" changed. As SPM has said, they are no more a sure sign of honesty than anything else written in posts. Therefore, it's a moot issue. So I agree. Let 'em stand. Any innocents who get caught out by werewolves (who already know who's innocent anyway) have merely played into the werewolves' hands, and so much the worse for them.

A side issue for me had been, "why on earth would some innocents want to keep secrets from other innocents?" Here's my point: some of us, when innocents, ain't that great at reading codes, anagrams, and what-not. Any innocents who convey crucial information through codes, run the risk of some fellow innocents not getting it. But that doesn't mean there ought to be a rule against it. Either you're just playing around and it doesn't really matter, or you're running the risk of cutting off your nose to spite your face. So code away all you want, gifteds and innocents .... this particular player is not likely to figure it out when he's innocent, and will probably be clued in by fellow werewolves when he's a werewolf. So have at it.

[mormegil]

I'm glad to see that most of us are in agreement on this issue. As I noted in the game I actually didn't believe Nilp based on his anagram and I should actually have seen SpM playing off that a lot to gain Nilp's confidence, and it worked. But I don't see that a 'senior' or 'junior' player issue is of any consequence. In partiuclar these anagrams were there for everyone to see and decipher, if you had the patience. Speaking of which I didn't decipher all of them and would like to know what they all said. I picked up on the majority but not all.

Next game? Perhaps...depends on timing and some other issues. I don't want to continually take up a spot if there are other. I think I've been in the most games overall ...if not me than SpM

[Farael]

On Secret codes:

Even though I was slightly bummed out at the fact that I am not good for anagrams, I don't mind them as long as they are out there for everyone to see.

On the coming up game:

Nilp, you know you can already count on me for it.... as for occupation, even though I'm tempted of actually being the town's Nilp, I wouldn't want to seem to be doing a parody of your antics.... thus, I shall be the town's "Escaped mental asylum internee who suffers a cronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories" (the second part allowing me to go after Aiwendil again if he decides to play )

Looking forward to being able to satisfy my WW addiction some more.

[Lhunardawen]

SpW and Aiwendil...you liars!

It's odd, but I'm inclined to believe that those who used anagrams and such to express their innocence are actually telling the truth. Most likely it's because any sane person wouldn't go to such lengths to tell a lie, but apparently making an anagram isn't such a hard thing to do for our two lycans above.

So I guess I should consider myself warned from next game on.

Nilp, come on...I'm burning with excitement! Tell us what you have planned!

[Formendacil]

First of all, let me put down my name as a player for Nilp's game. Cannot miss this one!

Next, moving on the Secret Codes issue, which I have thus far refrained from commenting on:

As noted in private conversations to various persons, I have no issue with secret messages. I've never used them, myself, and if I did, I'd probably be a Wolf when doing so. I've also never been inclined to trust them. Nilp and SPM both had my trust this last game (for better or worse) because of the way they voted. The hidden message stuff I ignore completely. What else do you expect them to say? "I'm a Wolf, Nilp." "Yeah, me too."

Honestly...

However, I wish to go on the record now, since I was unwilling to do so earlier, that I was most irritated and displeased at the irrational and immature behaviour that arose when LMP discovered something new. Sorry, LMP, I hold you in high regard normally, but your behaviour smacked of "well, if we can't play it my way, I'm not playing".

I was most disappointed.

As regards the future, perhaps notice should be served in Game-Opening posts that secret messages of any sort are a part of the game, and that taking them seriously is something the player does at their own risk.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

This has nothing to do with anagrams, sorry to interrupt.

Originally Posted by morm

I think I've been in the most games overall

Well, now that you mentioned it...

A while ago I started to suspect that I'm kind of addicted to Werewolfing, and I did a little research about how bad the situation was. It was such a relief to discover that the results weren't that alarming and I certainly wasn't alone with my addiction.

Most enthusiastic WWers:

Top 3

1. 13 games
- mormegil (18, 17, 15, 14, 12, 11, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 3, 1)

2. 12 games
- Kath (18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, WWJ 3)

3. 9 games
- Anguirel (18, 13, 12, 10, 4, 2, 1, WWJ 5, WWJ 3 + mod 15)
- Eomer (18, 15, 12, 11, 7, 6, 4, 2, WWJ 3 + mod 3)
- Gil (18, 17, 16, 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, WWJ 5)
- Holby (18, 14, 9, 6, 5, 3, 2, WWJ 5, WWJ 2 + mod 11)
- Sauce (18, 17, 15, 14, 11, 9, 8, 3, 1 + mod 2)
- spawn (18, 17, 15, 14, 10, 8, 7, 4, 2 + mod 13)
- Wayne (17, 15, 14, 13, 10, 9, WWJ 3, WWJ 2, WWJ 1)


If I've counted someone's games wrong or if someone should be in the list but isn't, please correct me. In addition there's a huge amount of people with 6-8 games in their account.

[Kath]

12! I knew I'd been in a lot but wow.

Nilp am I still in for your game?

As to secret messages, I don't like them, but will concede to their use as I never notice them myself so unless they're brought to my attention I won't be bothered by them.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The Village shall be named Ened-in-Nowhere. (For those of you who know Sindarin, .)

There shall the Lovers be introduced. As defined by Cailín:

The Lovers.

The game would be close to an ordinary game of Werewolves. The village should consist of about sixteen players, three wolves, a Hunter, a Seer and a Ranger. However, one of the wolves and one of the Ordinary Villagers are more than they appear. It is tragic, surely, but some twisted fate decided these two sworn enemies should fall in love. They shall form a separate, third team and can only win if they survive together. This might be rather interesting, for where in all previous games the wolves could blindly trust each other, they now have a traitor in their midst who not only wishes to feast on the villagers, but also his fellow wolves – blinded by love, naturally. The devoted ordinary villager in the meantime will have to betray all his or her ordinary friends to be able to live happily ever after with his/her furry lover.

At night, the werewolf in love would have to do anything to prevent his beloved from being eaten – without raising suspicion with the other wolves. During the day, there shall be two people who will really have to defend each other with their lives – because they cannot survive without the other – and still, without drawing attention too themselves. It might really damage the position of the wolves, but on the other hand, the lover-werewolf would have to keep his fellows alive to get rid of the other Villagers as quickly as possible.

I was thinking along the following lines:

- If one of the lovers gets lynched, eaten or shot by the Hunter, the other shall automatically die of grief.
- If the Seer dreams of one of the lovers, he or she shall only see their normal role, not the lover part.
- The Lovers win if they survive together or if the composition of the village is Lover – Lover – Wolf or Lover – Lover – Villager. (Cailín)

Except for the following changes.

~ This shall be 20-player village.

~ There shall be 4 Werewolves. (gasps from everyone) And they could PM each other DAY and NIGHT. (more gasps)

~ There shall be two Seers. They could PM each other DAY and NIGHT. They can dream of only one person per NIGHT. (awed silence from everyone)

~ The Lovers can PM each other only once during a 24-hour period (DAY or NIGHT).

~ And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the Lovers cannot be the mod and a player. (sigh from the mod)

This is the basic composition of the village. I'll ask those who wish to join whether they want other roles or not.

[Anguirel]

Oh Lord. Lovers.

Maybe the only thing that could have tempted me.

I will sign up the moment WWJ5 ends today...which it will...

[tar-ancalime]

(sign me up for the next game)

I'm all for secret messages, handshakes, and other devious play. Provided, of course, it happens in the game thread where we've all got a shot at deciphering it, and it doesn't reference any real-life information to which we're not all privy.

I found the anagrams and recognized them as such, but I have to admit that I was too lazy to figure out what they were saying. I will not make that mistake again!

EDIT:

Lovers! I have been waiting for this to show up in a game. Now I'm really excited. Can we start RIGHT NOW?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Setting: We shall be set in early First Age Hildórien, a few years after the awakening of Men.

All occupations, therefore, must fit this. You can be trappers (NOT hunters), shepherds, fisherfolk, etc.

(Well, maybe I could allow anachronisms, but they must be in italics. Otherwise I'll be subtracting points from you. You don't want that, I assure you. )

I shall be a prophet; not the Mod God, but the kon Vayor of his wishes. (Don't ask. Just wait for the opening post. )

[Cailín]

Ai, Nilp, stealing my brilliant ideas! I should... I should...

Oh, this is só mean. I cannot possibly sign up unless you postpone the start till Tuesday at the earliest. But then, I do really not want to miss this game. *sulks*

[Anguirel]

Postpone the start Nilp! We can't let Cailinimedes the Great Inventor miss out.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

For you, Cailín, it will be moved. Tuesday it is.

Okay, speaking of times . . . there shall be two choices. I wish to know which one's more convenient for the majority.

1. Game cycles at 5:30am, GMT. No fluctuations.

2. Game cycles at 8:00am, GMT, although on Saturdays it will be 2-3 hours earlier.

So, I need two opinions now:

~ The other roles (Hunter, Ranger, Cobbler, etc.)

~ The DAY/NIGHT cycle time.

[Lhunardawen]

Mwahaha! It's your turn to suffer from timezones! *evil smilie*

Well, to some extent.

I'll go with option 2, 8:00 AM GMT.

Hunter, Ranger the same. I'm not very sure about the Cobbler or a Cursed. Will the Seeriffs be enough to counteract the four wolves? Or is the scale heavier on one side?

[tar-ancalime]

I prefer the first choice for the time cycle, but both are better-than-average for me.

Now, as to other roles--

I'd like to see a Hunter and Ranger who can pm each other as in the last game.

[Farael]

well, for us in North America it might be better starting at 5 30 GMT as it'd be around midnight for most of us... but then, it's a little unfair on our Brittish counterparts (Wait, will this hamper Saucepan Wolf? hmmmm ) Anyway, I cast my vote for 8 GMT. North Americans may have to vote a few hours early but it would give Brittish (And most European I guess) people a chance to vote before the deadline.

I must admit to be ignorant of Timezones in Europe though, so those of you who actually live there should speak up now or hold your peace for ever.... or 'till the end of the current WW game, whichever happens first

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by the prophet Nilp

~ And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the Lovers cannot be the mod and a player. (sigh from the mod)

Barfs, anyone?

[Cailín]

Yay! Thanks Nilp.

As for roles, just a plain Hunter and Ranger would do, I suppose. The cursed or cobbler doesn't seem like a clever idea: might be overdoing all the intrigues. Also, to add another team and make the Hunter and Ranger Shiriffs might be overdoing it.

I vote 8:00 GMT, obviously.

Also, Nilp, did you decide on boy/girl lovers or just random, which would allow for boy/boy and girl/girl lovers?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

You will be punished, Lhuna. Mod God's will.

The Hunter and Ranger will be ordinary ones. I can't have two blocks of talking gifted, could I? Even 4 or 5 Bad Guys would have trouble with that one. (I think.)

Cailín, it will be Male/Female.

[Lalaith]

Boy/girl only - wouldn't that make things too easy to figure out?

[Cailín]

I agree Lalaith, to a certain degree. Of course I understand that a romantic spirit like Nilp's (seconding Lhuna's barf ) would find the male/female version more appealing, but we should ensure the game is at least relatively balanced then.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

1. dancing spawn of ungoliant f
2. Kath f
3. Lhunardawen f
4. Caranlondien f
5. tar-ancalime f
6. Cailín f

7. Garin m
8. Formendacil m
9. littlemanpoet m
10. Glirdan m
11. Farael m
12. Anguirel m
13. Eomer m

7:6. We need 3 more males, and 4 more females then. Although I think the ratio wouldn't matter much. I mean, what would you do, institute a scorched-earth policy and lynch all the Males/Females?

(Speaking of which, there will be NO DOUBLE-LYNCHING. I kinda like it myself, but for this game it might be too much. Unless the village thinks otherwise.)

[Cailín]

7:6. We need 3 more males, and 4 more females then. Although I think the ratio wouldn't matter much. I mean, what would you do, institute a scorched-earth policy and lynch all the Males/Females?

*coughs* considering the line-up, I wouldn't put it past some people on there.

But it might lead to interesting ... unfair, gender-biased discussions anyway. I'm in favour.

[Farael]

Re. Doubly Lynching: We have two seers, Ranger and Cobbler, plus one of the two lovers who could come forward. That'd kick 5 people out of the list, which is a third (or fourth) of the starting village. By the time they do decide to come forward, it might just kick half of the village out of suspicion, a couple double-lynchings and it's either a villager win (the lover wolf gets hung) or a lover win (the two non-lover wolves get lynched)

By the way, from what I gather, if the two lovers survive (i.e: the other two wolves get killed before them) it's a lover's win... isn't that too easy? The lover wolf tells the Lover non-wolf the names of the other lupines... then the non-wolvish lover persuades the village to go after two of the three werewolves (one at the time) and unless someone realizes this trick and lynchs the lover first, it'd be a lover win rather than a villager win.

On the other hand, did I get it all wrong? maybe the lovers only win if they survive together into the last day (lover-lover +someone else)

P.S: Why barfing Lhuna? love is such a wonderful thing.... but then, he's your brother... if any guys get within shouting range of my sister, they are mercilessly glared upon by me, so I guess I understand you =P
P.P.S: Someone tell SPW to join in, I want my revenge.

[Cailín]

On the other hand, did I get it all wrong? maybe the lovers only win if they survive together into the last day (lover-lover +someone else)

This is indeed the case. Besides, the Lover would never come forward: she or he'd be lynched immediately.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Cailín

This is indeed the case. Besides, the Lover would never come forward: she or he'd be lynched immediately.

I got it wrong so it's a moot point, but a deal could be cut if the village is down 5 innocents and without any clues of whom the wolves may be. I was sort of hoping that'd be the case as it'd make for an interesting scenario of possible back-stabbings and such. Yet I just realized something. If the lover decides to come forward he could give out the name of the two non-lover WW for a double-lynch... problem is, the following day he'd get lynched... hmmmm ok, I don't see a way for it to work for a lover as it is now, but it'd be interesting to see the possible scenarios.
*writes it down for his own game, perhaps the lovers will not die together*

Still, thanks Cailin.

[Anguirel]

On the Male/Female issue: if it can work with separated sexes, I'm also for it. I mean, Achilles/Patroclus devotion has its place in literature...but I think Werewolf is controversial enough without diving into the risque!

Besides, with the damsels recruited so far, whoever the male lover is he's going to have a lot of fun...

[The Saucepan Man]

Hidden/coded messages

Well, the general consensus seems to be that hidden and coded messages are OK because they can work both ways and cannot be taken as a guarantee of someone’s innocence (or Gifted-ness). It would, in any event, be virtually impossible to regulate any restriction in this area.

The other issue, which Shelob has explained well, is the extent to which those who are new to the game, or who tend to play less than others, may be disadvantaged by “senior” players using techniques tried and tested in previous games. Again, I don’t think that there is any way to get round this problem. It is inevitable that people will use their prior knowledge of strategies, players and previous games generally as part of their strategy or deduction method, even if they do not state so explicitly.

Originally Posted by Elempi

A side issue for me had been, "why on earth would some innocents want to keep secrets from other innocents?" Here's my point: some of us, when innocents, ain't that great at reading codes, anagrams, and what-not. Any innocents who convey crucial information through codes, run the risk of some fellow innocents not getting it.

I agree that there is little sense in innocents keeping secrets from other innocents, but it is really up to them whether they choose to publicise any codes that they have been using, and also up to the other players to try to spot them (if they feel so inclined). In WW17, where Nilp and I were both innocents and exchanged acrostics to that effect, we ended up giving some pretty heavy pointers to the messages. Our reason for doing it had not been based on any wish to conceal relevant information from other villagers, but merely the natural impulse of born riddlers. Nevertheless, there may be good reason why two or more players would want to keep information divulged by a hidden message to themselves, for example to avoid pointing out a Gifted hint to a Wolf. As long as the messaging is “open” in the sense that it occurs on the game thread, I don’t see a problem.

Interestingly, the Night before this all came up in WW18, the three of us Wolves had considered agreeing some sort of code-word to trigger, for example, a Wolf sacrifice and had wondered whether it would be within the rules. We were going to seek a ruling from Shemod, but then shelved the idea when hidden messages became an issue the next Day.

Ultimately, it is a matter for the mod of each game to set his or her own rules for that game. As a general rule, I think that anything not specifically outlawed should be fair game. And any mod thinking of introducing restrictions on hidden messages etc will need to think long and hard about it, because they will need to be carefully defined, not interfere unduly with the game-play and be capable of enforcement.

Originally Posted by morm

Speaking of which I didn't decipher all of them and would like to know what they all said. I picked up on the majority but not all.

I’ll identify the ones that I spotted on the game thread, if you like.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

However, I wish to go on the record now, since I was unwilling to do so earlier, that I was most irritated and displeased at the irrational and immature behaviour that arose when LMP discovered something new.

I think that I probably have to take some responsibility here. It was probably a mistake for me openly to suggest that I would withdraw from the game if that was the majority decision. I should instead have raised it discretely with Shemod. I can honestly state that it was not intended to secure me any game advantage (and I don’t think that it did), but I was genuinely fuming at the time at the suggestion that I had been cheating.

On a more general note, I have noticed a tendency in a number of recent games for game-related issues to give rise to RL emotional issues and quarrels. I think that we all need to remember (and I include myself here) that these are just games and that, despite all the deception, backstabbing and gruesome narrative descriptions, nothing personal is (or should be) meant by them.

Nilp’s game

It’s tempting, very tempting … but I really ought to give it a break so that I can devote proper attention to work and family, and also to other aspects of this forum. Sorry, Nilp, I would love to play but I am going to have to sit it out. I will be keeping an eye on it, though.

Sorry, Farael, your revenge will have to wait.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Leave your family! Leave your country! This is the Promised Land!!!

(Sorry, can't resist. )

Awww . . . well, I guess I'll avenge myself some other way.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I wish to go on the record now, since I was unwilling to do so earlier, that I was most irritated and displeased at the irrational and immature behaviour that arose when LMP discovered something new. Sorry, LMP, I hold you in high regard normally, but your behaviour smacked of "well, if we can't play it my way, I'm not playing".

I was most disappointed.

I appreciate your honesty, Formy. And I think that you are quite right. Such antics will not be seen from me again in Werewolf, or out of it. There were more reasonable ways of handling such issues. Please accept my apologies. It's just a game and things within the game should not be taken personally, because that's not how they're meant. I hope I've learned that lesson .... yet again.