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#2001 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Dwarves?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2002 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Not dwarves.
You're looking for a specific sequence of events that ties the whole thing together. hS |
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#2003 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Three houses of Men, then?
Red-faced makes me think of Caranthir, to whom Uldor and his sons swored fealty, but ended up betraying him and allying with Melkor instead.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2004 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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You are most definitely on the right track.
![]() Edit: All right, to be more fair: Caranthir, Uldor and his sons are the answer to the first half of the riddle. But can you tell me why, specifically, I used the words I did? (Also the second half, obviously...!) hS Last edited by Huinesoron; 03-17-2019 at 01:20 AM. |
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#2005 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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All right
Ugly they named us, the Red-Faced and his kin Insulting our lands, our hair and our beards Naming us Betrayer behind welcoming grins Is it any wonder we turned out as they feared? Ulfang and his sons swore allegiance to Caranthir, whom the first line refers to. Now, I don't have a book nearby, and the online sources are scarce on this matter, but I assume that Feanorians mistrusted Ulfang and his sons from the beginning, and tried to hide it. This made them bitter, which enabled Morgoth to sway them by promising them the lands that were kept from them as a result of aforementioned mistrust, if they helped him. So they did. Faithful they named us, the Red and Gold together The shield, the flame-brand, the wide open vale Welcoming our people as kinfolk forever Is it any wonder we were loyal without fail? Now this second stanza describes the other mannish house mentioned: the house of Bor. Maedhros (red) and Maglor (Gold) named him Bor (which probably means faithful) because of his loyalty, and his sons' names also had that root.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2006 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Pretty much correct! The riddle refers to the two tribes of Easterlings, under Ulfang and Bor, and their eventual fates.
But... there's no evidence Caranthir mistrusted Ulfang and company. Do you fancy trying to figure out what I'm going on about with that - and explaining those second lines along the way? (And, for that matter, 'ugly'...) hS |
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#2007 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Well, I want to explain those too, really, but I can't. You see, the thing is, there is very little information regarding Ulfang and Bor and their houses in the book, and there is also very little information online as well.
Do you know about any website that gives more info about them? If I had more info, I think I'll be able to fill the gaps.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2008 |
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I don't really know much about them either, just their names (and their fates). But... that's kind of all I needed to know.
![]() You got most of the way there with Bor and the three Feanorians. Just extrapolate a little further... hS |
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#2009 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Or I could just take the turn?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2010 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Go for it!
It was all one extended Sindarin joke. 'Ulfang' probably wasn't written to be Sindarin, but translates perfectly as 'hideous (=ugly) beard'. Similarly, Uldor, Ulfast, and Ulwarth come out as Ugly Land, Ugly Hair, and Ugly Betrayer. The idea behind the riddle is that this is how the Noldor would have interpreted the names. Bor, as you said, is 'faithful', and Borlach, Borlad, and Borthand can be read as Faithful-Flame, -Lowland, and -Shield. The fact that the Faithful house remained loyal while the Ugly house rebelled... well, it was too much fun to miss. Okay, enough out of me: go Urwen! hS |
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#2011 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Hope this one is to your liking as well
I saw your life dangle on the strings Yet I was unable to do a single thing I watched as you became a sacrifice Of a bloody war There was someone else I chose to give my love to But she turned away from me Because she fell in love with another Despite knowing she couldn't love me as I was I supported her all the same I tried to warn her that the man she loved had darkness within As shown by his chosen name But she didn't listen And ultimately, she was taken away I, who still loved her Was left behind to decay I wanted to protect both you and her But in the end, I couldn't do either I just hope that when the three of us meet again You'd both forgive me and release me from my pain
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2012 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Is this the guy who loved Finduilas? Gwindor, if I recall correctly, who also gave his (comradely) love to Turin?
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#2013 | |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Quote:
You got two elements of the riddle, including the answer, but as the extra challenge. can you tell who is the 'you' in the riddle.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2014 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I thought 'you' was Finduilas.
Ah ... no. She's the 'she' of verse 2. Am not sure without looking it up ... is the 'you' Beleg?
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#2015 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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No. I sorta drew inspiration from this when I wrote the the riddle.
EDIT: Maybe this would help: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gwindor Check his biographical information there, and you'll know who 'you' is.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 03-18-2019 at 04:48 PM. |
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#2016 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Is 'you' Gwindor's brother - Gelmir, I think? He was executed by Morgoth's army in front of the Nargothrond host, and Gwin's reckless charge in response led to the disaster of the Nirnaeth and his own capture.
hS |
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#2017 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Yeah. It's Pervinca's turn, I believe.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2018 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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It was a lovely poem, Urwen. And that YouTube cartoon you linked to looks beautiful. I will watch it when I have a little more time.
I've never written a riddle before, unless you count my 'pubs and inns' password. If I can't think of one quickly enough, I'd be happy for Huinesoron to have the next go. But I will try.
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#2019 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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How long until you will give the turn to him?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2020 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Well, I have something I originally wrote as a filk. I could try it as a riddle.
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#2021 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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OK - just don't hit me if you don't like filks, OK? This is not me trying to pass off Pink Floyd's work as my own - just a humble tribute to two masterpieces instead of one:
SHINE ON YOU CRAZY DIAMOND Remember when you were young, You shone like the sun: Shine on, you crazy diamond! Then came that look in your eyes Weary, hunted and wise: Shine on, you crazy diamond! You were speared on a hilltop In terror and combat, Rode on a sea of pain. Come on, you target for conspirers’ laughter! Come on, you legend, you hero, you martyr, and shine! You took up the gauntlet: Fared forth in the dark Shine on you crazy diamond! Threatened by shadows at night And tormented by light: Shine on, you crazy diamond! Well you wore out your heart’s strength With deadly precision, And broke on a mountain’s peak; Come on, you quester, you seer of visions, Come on, you vessel of light never darkling And shine! Where are you roaming tonight? How near or how far? Shine on, you crazy diamond! Pile on many more years And I’ll be joining you there: Shine on, you crazy diamond! And we’ll bask in the glory of yesterday’s triumph And weep on Cormallen’s field! Come on, you dreamer You winner and loser! Come on you deep one, you thinker, you muser And shine! SO - Who might sing this? To whom? And what would the verses/lines refer to?
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#2022 | ||||||||||
Overshadowed Eagle
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Well... Cormallen points me at the War of the Ring, and the only person I know of who was 'speared' is Frodo Baggins.
Which works pretty well with the rest of the poem: Quote:
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'You winner and loser' is a perfect summary of Frodo's journey, while 'dreamer, deep one, thinker, muser' is equally perfect as a description of his character. How'd I do? hS |
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#2023 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Fantastically! There are some ideas and insights there that I hadn't thought of, a few missed and a few answered differently but well.
I will give itemised feedback when I have a little more time .. could you just hold on to your next riddle until then? I'll try to do it today. Just for now, though, Finduilas was speared too. And Celebrimbor (after death, at least).
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-19-2019 at 05:39 AM. |
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#2024 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Quote:
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#2025 | |||||||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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H
Quote:
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I was using the phrase 'sea of pain' metaphorically, though, for the 17 days he bore the splinter (although I don't think he would have felt it for the last 2 or 3, when he was unconscious). I wanted him to 'ride' on something (metaphorically) because the original lyrics go 'Rode on a steel breeze,' (a reference to a steel guitar/steel strings, I think). Although - silly me - he was riding on something anyway! First Bill, and then Asfaloth. I also used 'spear' metaphorically, just to mean impaled/pierced/stabbed with something, which is what a spear does. Mainly for euphony - it sounds nicer than 'stabbed.' So 'speared on a hilltop' refers exclusively to the wounding at Weathertop. [quote]The Conspiracy Unmasked, of course.[/I] Correct interpretation of 'victim of conspirers' laughter' - again, it's a tweaking of the original lyrics, which I think referred to Syd's vulnerability to laughter from the audience - I'm sure I once read something to that effect. Quote:
'Martyr' is in the original lyrics too - but reflects the fact that his heroism was of a sacrificial nature. I kind of imagine Sam using the term with a slightly wry affection. Quote:
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That's the deadly precision: it was exactly enough for the quest to succeed, but not enough for him to be able to succeed by an act of will, recover and live in peace in his own country again. ![]() Quote:
And as Paul Kocher pointed out, no-one dreams as much (or as prophetically?) as he does. Quote:
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Yes, he 'technically' or in one sense lost the battle against the Ring, because it was not possible for one not divine to win it. But he won the quest through his endurance, pity and humility - and with help from Sam and Gollum (and distraction from Aragorn and Co). I really love this song. Not as much as I love Frodo. ![]() Over to you, Huinesoron!
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 03-21-2019 at 03:03 PM. |
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#2026 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Pervinca, I could tell there was more detail than I was catching, but I couldn't guess just how much more. That's really impressive!
Moving along to something much less ornate: Quote:
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#2027 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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The last line makes me think of Gulduin, though it's probably not the answer.
Also, do all three lines refer to the same thing?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2028 |
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Yep, the whole riddle refers to a single thing, and specifically to a series of events related to it. Not Gulduin, though.
('Thing' should not be taken to imply for or against it being a character.) hS PS: I assume 'Gulduin' here is the Enchanted River in Mirkwood? That seems to be what the MERP used it for. |
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#2029 | |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Quote:
Yeah. My next guess is Bilbo That which lives has come to life - he was thought dead by people in the Shire during the quest for Erebor, but 'came back to life' because no one in the Shire knew he was alive the whole time That which drinks is set to eat - not sure about this one That which brings sleep is put to sleep - probably something to do with Gulduin, as it's the only thing I can think of which brings sleep
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2030 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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It isn't Bilbo, and the sleep has nothing to do with the Enchanted River in Mirkwood.
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#2031 | |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Quote:
But what else brings sleep?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2032 |
Overshadowed Eagle
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The answer to the riddle. ^_^
hS |
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#2033 |
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Is it something to do with the dwarves sleeping until Eru allowed them to waken?
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#2034 |
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It is not. Much later than that.
hS |
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#2035 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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The Eye of Sauron? The eye that never sleeps was finally put to sleep by being destroyed?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2036 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Glaurung?
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#2037 |
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Neither Sauron nor Glaurung, though you're right to be looking at malevolent entities.
Both instances of sleep are literal, not death. hS |
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#2038 |
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Think I got it, it's none other than Ole Man Willowy
That which lives has come to life - He is a sentient tree That which drinks is set to eat - trees 'drink' water from the ground and he almost 'ate' the hobbits That which brings sleep is put to sleep - He makes hobbits fall asleep in order to 'eat' them, then is put to sleep himself later
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#2039 | |
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Quote:
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#2040 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Actually, I think I'll cash that one for later, as I've come up with a better one
Firstborn daughter, Secondborn child I brought forth laughter As I ran wild My life was cut short By the ill-gotten fumes But I was the lucky one As the future would prove My siblings outlived me As you could plainly see My mortal life might be gone But in exchange, my soul escaped from the Dark One
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 03-21-2019 at 06:48 AM. |
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