The Tolkien Coming of Age Club 2

[Mithadan]

Now...a word in my defense! Contrary to how it may appear, I had nothing to do with the sad ending of aforementioned Gurus. It was purely coincidental. Many of my former teachers are still living and are in at least partial command of their faculties

Yeah, yeah, right! As they say in my profession, the circumstancial evidence tends to establish...

Welcome Fordim!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

The only real contribution it made is that it was among the first of the 'new' generation of work on Tolkien (post 1970s) that attempted to deal with the real importance of the female characters in LotR.

There were female character's in LoTR?! I had to say that you know. Sorry, you can pelt me with those stones now!

[Ealasaide]

Just call me Ealasaide Stormcrow!

Hilde - consider thyself pelted with stones!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

PELT PELT. . .PELT-PELT-PELT

PELT

Harumph!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Believe me, I have no qualms whatsoever with the way Tolkien wrote LoTR and am quite content with the representatives that are there.

Just being a trouble maker!

[Ealasaide]

Speaking of women in LotR...

Since LotR is such a male-bonding sort of adventure, I have always thought it would be interesting to create an RPG or Fan Fic centered around women, almost a mirroring adventure that takes place at the same time as the events chronicled in LotR. I first got the idea from a line out of Isak Dinesen when she talks about how men are are constantly being tested for courage, etc, while women are tested for their abilities to wait & endure. Then I read Carolyn Cassady's "Off The Road", which was the feminine flipside of Jack Kerouac's adventures "On The Road", which really set me to thinking.

In a traditionally male-dominated culture, women are kind of unseen in that most of the time they operate in the background and below the radarscope, so to speak, of men. With this in mind, I have been mentally debating how to develop the notion of a "mirror fellowship" of women for quite a while now, where they are not tested in their ability to wait and endure, but for their abilities to succeed at their given adventure.

On the other hand, it would be interesting to explore the "wait & endure" side of things, too, say from the POV of Rosie in The Shire.

[Mithadan]

Warning: What follows is a VERY politically incorrect parody of Ealasaide's suggested RPG. Apologies in advance, but I couldn't resist.

Rosie Cotton's Secret Diary

September 23, 3018: Sam has gone off with Frodo to set up his household in Buckland. Hope he comes back soon...

October 23, 3018: Still waiting for Sam to return...

October 24, 3018: Still waiting for Sam to return...

October 25, 3018: Still waiting for Sam to return. Darn that Frodo anyway...

November 25, 3018: Knitted Sam new pair of socks as a present. When will he come back...

December 25, 3018: Still waiting...

January 25, 3019: Still waiting...

February 25, 3019: Still waiting for Sam to come back. Ran into Ted Sandyman at the Green Dragon. He said that by now Sam has probably been eaten by some combination of dragons, tree-men, goblins or trolls. Then he asked me out...

February 26, 3019: Hand still bruised where punched Sandyman in the nose. Sam better come back soon.

March 1, 3019: Lotho Pimple now running Shire. Hope he doesn't ask me out. Where is Sam?

March 20, 3019: Lotho Pimple has taken up with Ted Sandyman. Knew there was something strange about those two...

March 30, 3019: Something starnge going on in the Shire. Lotho is bringing in loads of strange men to "Help him run the Shire". Darn pervy Sackville-Baggins...

June 1, 3019: Lobelia arrested. Maybe Lotho not all bad. Where is Sam. Biological clock is ticking..

July 20, 3019: Tick, tick, tick...

September 1, 3019: Finally gave in and went out with Sandyman. He promised me Ring of Power. Told him to stuff it. Can't abide his dirty hands. Very tired of waiting for Sam...

November 1, 3019: Sam finally back! Too busy rousing Shire to spend time with me.

November 2, 3019: Sam still rousing Shire. Tick, tick, tick...

November 3, 3019: Big Boss dealt with. Sam now too busy "setting things straight" to spend time with me...

December 20, 3019: Sam still busy running Shire. Wonder where Sandyman is?

April 6, 3020: Sam crowing about pretty tree in Party Field. If he doesn't spend some time with me soon, I'll whack him with a branch...

May 1, 3020: Married Sam! Yay me!

September 21, 3021: Sam off with Frodo again. Beginning to wonder...

November 7, 3027: Sam elected mayor. I have a bad feeling about this...

December 1, 3042: Have 12 children now. Sam still mayor. Working late tonight running the Shire. Hamfast, Daisy and Primrose have the chicken pox. Bilbo, Ruby and Robin have colds. Elanor out on date. Have to feed and put various and sundry kids to sleep alone again. Should have married rich miller's son, Sandyman...

[Ealasaide]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! <PLONK!>

"Oh, man....! Whoo!" Ealasaide picks her butt up out of the dust where it fell when she laughed it off and reattaches it, still wiping tears of mirth from her eyes. "Okay, Mithadan," she says with a sly grin. "En garde, Sir Wag! I'll get you for this one!"

[Child of the 7th Age]

Priceless!

***********************


Siftings from Child's e-mail 'sent' box......

Mithadan -

What an interesting idea for a games proposal! You will shortly be receiving a games worksheet from Piosenniel with instructions on how to fill out the sheet.

Some of the roles you listed would seem to require a rather 'delicate' hand (perhaps two?). I would recommend that you enlist 'experienced' posters for this purpose who will have their profiles and posts ready when the discussion thread first opens.

We look forward to seeing your revisions and working with you on this game.

Cami Goodchild, Shire Mod

*************************

Pio -

Please see the attached game seed from Mithadan. This one is a real blooper!

I would suggest sending this on to Rohan, but I don't have the heart to do that to Bethberry. Perhaps, we could interest Gondor in this! I think it would fit right in with Reunification of the Entish Bow.

Cami

******************************


Side note to Esty: This was said with a grin, of course!

******************************

Serious note to Ealasaide:

Actually, this is an interesting idea for either fanfiction or RPG. I was toying with the idea of one of the villages in Gondor or Rohan where all the men had gone off to the war. I had originally suggested something like this last summer, but the young women who ran with the RPG planning thread preferred to focus on court intrigue rather than the nitty gritty. This was the origin of "Corsairs and Corsets".

In terms of that village, I was thinking of a mixture : a combination of "wait and endure" and action. Not necessarily hand-to-hand combat, but perhaps a village being taken over by someone (not Orcs) and women spying to get information from the bad guys, or some such thing.

If you ever decide to do something with this in terms of an RPG, let me know.....

[The Saucepan Man]

Bravo Mith!

Actually, there is quite a good precedent for elements of such a story in the Easterlings' invasion of Hithlum following the disaster of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, which forms the background for the stories of Turin and Tuor. Not being a regular RPG'er, I have no idea whether it would be suitable for an RPG, but it seems to me that it might provide the setting for an interesting story, either RPG or fan-fiction. Elements could include the struggles undergone by Morwen, Aerin's efforts to assist her (and conceal such efforts from her husband and his men) and Rian's sad story.

Anyway, just a suggestion ...

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Oh yeah, that would be a wonderful time and place to set a story in!!! Good idea!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

*Esty chuckles into her crocheting and the chair rocks with every laugh*

You write it, I'll read it!

[Ealasaide]

Child - Yes, I remember getting all excited about the idea of an RPG from the women's POV last summer when the planning thread for "Corsairs" first opened. I had been hoping that it would explore some of the ideas I have been talking about here and was a bit disappointed in the direction it ultimately took. But that's okay! "Corsairs" was a fun little RPG, even if it didn't dig as deeply into women's roles as I would have liked.

BUT...that leaves the door open for me to explore the "nitty-gritty" side of things on my own, doesn't it? I would be very interested in developing an RPG along these lines this summer after my gang in The Shire and I finally wrap up our lingering RPG, "The Lingering Darkness." For the moment, I would like to hold off on my "mirror fellowship" storyline until it has time to gel a bit more, but I would like to follow up on the other one, which I see pretty much exactly as you describe:

a mixture : a combination of "wait and endure" and action. Not necessarily hand-to-hand combat, but perhaps a village being taken over by someone (not Orcs) and women spying to get information from the bad guys, or some such thing.

Let me do a little thinking and planning & I will definitely PM you about it! I see it as an exploration of women's roles in taking care of the homefront while the men are away at war.

Saucepan Man - What an excellent suggestion! That sounds like the perfect framework for what I am talking about. I'll do some reading and see if it actually would work for my purposes. Thanks!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Oh Ealasaide, I do believe Saucepan Man's idea would apply. In fact I'd love to see that one get started. Plenty of potential.

[Ealasaide]

In my latest foray to the local bookstore, I picked up an interesting cookbook: "Celtic Folklore Cooking" by Joanne Asala. It's a combination of food-related Celtic folklore and recipes. I have not had the chance to try any of the recipes yet, but so far it has been an entertaining read. The writer has an obvious interest in Wicca and New Age-type ritual, but the recipes and folktales are fun and well-researched.

[mark12_30]

Aside from the ritual, that sounds FASCINATING. And I don't normally like to cook.

Actually, I take that back. I enjoy cooking if it's something I think hobbits and elves would cook and eat. Lembas, good. Mushrooms, good. Cabbage and Roots, Good. Mutton and Mushrooms, good.

Apple in pocket: even better, no cooking needed!!

Anyway, Ealasaide, please keep us posted.

How much was it?

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

OK, I have to ask. . .

I've just been reading through the thread about "early teens on the downs" and discovered that there is a whole swath of 'Downers whom I've been RPing with who are, well, let's say, young. . .much younger than I would have thought based on their posts and intelligence! Which is, of course, the nice thing about this place -- no pre-conceptions based on appearance or social standing/status: everybody is evaluated on the strengths of their posts.

But at any event, my question: don't you somewhat, shall we say, more mature Downers sometime feel a little, well, silly when (if) you are RPing with the younguns?? I know that I do! Heck, sometimes I feel a bit, well, creepy at the idea of RPing with a 15 year old girl: I mean, what if our characters fall in love with one another??

OK, I'm going to slip on my comfortable robe, retire to the rocking chair on the back porch and watch the sunset. That is, if I don't nod off first. . .

EDIT -- just re-read the post and oh my goodness -- agism agism agism. Let me say it for the record: the younguns I have seen around here are absolutely, jaw-droppingly, bestaggeringly amazing to me. I teach, and I could only wish that my students -- most of whom are between the ages of 18 and 20 -- were as mature, thoughtful, intelligent, creative, dependable and interesting as the people I find here!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Fordim, I quite agree - it's nice to interact with people of varying ages without the barriers real life usually has between generations. I find that the younger forum members are highly differentiated - some have very intellectual interests, some are awesome authors, and some mostly enjoy the fun and interaction. Just like us geezers, actually...

[Ealasaide]

Mark/Helen - no, I don't think any exorcisms would be necessary! On a closer read, I see that what I was taking for rituals was a listing of the Celtic Wheel of the Year at the very beginning of the book: pagan holidays by Judeo-Christian standards, but nothing scary! There are a few other places later on where rituals are referred to, but they are things like "do this to discover who you will eventually marry" and that sort of thing. No spells or hexes.

Fordim - You said:

Heck, sometimes I feel a bit, well, creepy at the idea of RPing with a 15 year old girl: I mean, what if our characters fall in love with one another??

I just separate the writer from the character. When I am writing in an RPG, I don't even think about who the other writer is. If I did start thinking of the writer in combination with the character, I would find it equally creepy writing love affairs with other women, y'know? It's just a pratfall of the medium. You'll get used to it after a while. A writer's a writer. We're all here to write and adventure and get away from ourselves for a while!

...at least that's why I'm here!

[mark12_30]

For a short while in one RPG, I thought we were going to have a guy (written by a girl) falling in love with a girl (written by a guy.) It didn't turn out that way though. In another RPG we had a guy-dwarf (written by a girl) falling (eventually) for a girl-dwarf *disguised* as a guy (written by a girl.)

Luckily we all had a sense of humor.

It is amazing to learn that a writer that you guessed was in his or her thirties... is most emphatically *not*.

[Ealasaide]

For a short while in one RPG, I thought we were going to have a guy (written by a girl) falling in love with a girl (written by a guy.) It didn't turn out that way though. In another RPG we had a guy-dwarf (written by a girl) falling (eventually) for a girl-dwarf *disguised* as a guy (written by a girl.)

Sounds pretty Shakespearean to me! Twelth Night, anyone?

[Snowdog]

I remember getting all excited about the idea of an RPG from the women's POV last summer when the planning thread for "Corsairs" first opened. I had been hoping that it would explore some of the ideas I have been talking about here and was a bit disappointed in the direction it ultimately took.

Yes, i remember, and was even a part of this, writing a woman character. I was quickly disenchanted with its direction, and my increasing RL pressures had me basicly hand off my minor character to another. I did enjoy it for a time.

On the issue of RP with older/younger writers. You have to be careful with this. My preference is to write with 18 or older folk so there is no "creepiness" as you say. But I'm all for younger writers RP ing, and some are so literate and make an ebnjoyable story to read.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

It also depends on the nature of the story - I did set a minimum age of 18 for writers on the notorious "Entish Bow" RPG...

[Alda]

Alas it seems I have "Come of Age"

It happened some years ago I am afraid. Time has a way of doing that, slowly and inexorably moving forward into some unforseen future. A future where you turn on the radio and can't even understand what the kids are "singing" about.

It wasn't too long ago that Bob Seger's "Night Moves" was spinning on the turntable and I was at my desk in my room copying The Tengwar from the Appendix in The Return of the King. Maybe taking a break or two by playing Atari, or getting up to turn the music down because dad didn't like that Led Zepplin guy.

Ok, perhaps the youngsters are not all that much different than we were. (Just smarter and with better technology)

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Greetings Alda, and welcome to the Club. There are plenty of rockers and comfortable quilts.

Couldn't help but laugh at your memories of learning Tengwar -- for me, it was Dwarvish runes and The Who. I envy you your Atari, as well, my father would never let me have one as it would ruin my mind. Had to find other ways to ruin it.

[Ealasaide]

Welcome, Alda! Sounds like you'll fit right in...

Plenty of rockers around here, in both senses of the term. Funny... my dad didn't like "that Led Zeppelin guy" either. Unfortunately, he had to endure quite a lot of him.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It also depends on the nature of the story - I did set a minimum age of 18 for writers on the notorious "Entish Bow" RPG...

Why's that? I've never seen a more decorous or family friendly RPG. In fact, it should be required reading in primary schools.

[Mithadan]

There are plenty of rockers and comfortable quilts.

"Idi Amin and the Shah
and al-Fadar is quite bizarre!
Me I do the only thing
that still makes sense to me...
I do the Rock"

[Bêthberry]

I mean, what if our characters fall in love with one another??

It isn't just the youngsters who get mixed up in romance, Fordim. Why, our very own upstanding RPG Administrator, none other than the distinguishedly greying Mithadan, has had the fortune, or misfortune, to have a game of his closed--yes, I say, closed--by a moderator due to improprieties, alleged or otherwise, between his character and an elf of some renown in these here RPG parts as well. Verily doth he say, as he protested above,

but I couldn't resist.

.

It is a slippery slope and I for one very much applaud Tolkien for walking wide of this mire and concentrating on high heroics. One can never have too many pedestals. And so, Child, I am much obliged to your kindness in suggesting Gondor for this game. It is just such a thing as Rimbaud, with his vast knowledge of Lord Halfulion, can handle.

Yours chortlingly,
etc etc

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Couldn't help but laugh at your memories of learning Tengwar -- for me, it was Dwarvish runes and The Who.

For me it was Moody Blues and making up something that looked like a cross between Tengwar and Arabic.

Greetings Alda!

[The Saucepan Man]

You are most welcome Alda.

It wasn't too long ago that Bob Seger's "Night Moves" was spinning on the turntable and I was at my desk in my room copying The Tengwar from the Appendix in The Return of the King.

For me it was Moody Blues and making up something that looked like a cross between Tengwar and Arabic.

I'll go with Adam and the Ants and writing up a Dungeons & Dragons game based on LotR.

Maybe taking a break or two by playing Atari

*Brandishes Playstation 2 controller* What a long way we have come from Atari!

[Alda]

I want to thank all of you for making me feel so welcome!

*Alda sits in the rocking chair and is amazed at how comfortable it is.

I will just close my eyes for a second, no harm in that is there? So much to do you know. There is still plenty of daylight left, I might get that soffit replaced. Oh and the new mulch needs thrown. Weeding, always weeding to be done.

*Chin on chest, and book on floor. zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I'll go with Adam and the Ants and writing up a Dungeons & Dragons game based on LotR.

Aren't all D&D games based on LoTR? Well, except for the gelatinous thing-gummy-bobs (cubes was it?). But I feel confident that Feanor would have come up with them if given a little more time, and a better sense of humor.

[tar-ancalime]

It's another year or two before I'm in this club, but I just wanted to say that it's refreshing to find I'm not the only one here on the Downs who remembers LPs and Atari.

[mark12_30]

I would suggest sending this on to Rohan, but I don't have the heart to do that to Bethberry. Perhaps, we could interest Gondor in this! I think it would fit right in with Reunification of the Entish Bow.

"Row, row," bellowed Caspian. "Pull for all our lives! You can say what you like, Reepicheep. There are some things no man can face."


*************

Hilde, Moody Blues ruled.

Hmmm.... maybe I should pick up a CD of "Days of Future Passed"...

Tuesday afternoon...

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

"Row, row," bellowed Caspian. "Pull for all our lives! You can say what you like, Reepicheep. There are some things no man can face."

Yes, I think it would irreparably alter my view of Rosie, let alone Sam!

And I wore the grooves of a ‘best of’ the Moody Blues LP I’d give my eye teeth to have now. Well, maybe not my eyeteeth…. Keep looking to see if I can find it on CD. Maybe I should visit the fabled music stores of Moria, they are bound to have it.

[mark12_30]

*cough* Amazon.

[Ealasaide]

And I wore the grooves of a ‘best of’ the Moody Blues LP I’d give my eye teeth to have now. Well, maybe not my eyeteeth…. Keep looking to see if I can find it on CD. Maybe I should visit the fabled music stores of Moria, they are bound to have it.

I just happen to have that very LP. Hmmm... Eye teeth, eh?

**********************

What's all this "row,row, Reepicheep", eh? You've totally lost me there. (Not difficult to do!)

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

The one with the album covers lined up like dominoes? Is it playable? Ah how very precious! Dare I mention birthday presents? gollum, we wants it we does.

The quote is from The Chronicles of Narnia, though I don't remember if it was from Prince Caspian or Voyage of the Dawn Treader. I think the latter.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

What's all this "row,row, Reepicheep", eh? You've totally lost me there. (Not difficult to do!)

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, by C.S. Lewis. Read it or you're a Newbie!