TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Kath]

Day 2 then:

Boro

If they were going with the "no trail kill" and thus that's why Form was targeted that doesn't make much sense. Form was pretty wishy-washy in who he suspected, but he did leave a trail. If they were going "no trail" I would think sally or Soriman would have been the choice, because Form certainly did list people so he did leave a trail.

Yes, but some of the people on said list were sally and Soriman because he was talking about the lurkers, so I'm not quite sure what you're meaning here. Thinks Pitch's vote for Hui was throwaway given sally no-voted and Soriman was unlikely to get a vote in so Greenie was going to be lynched. I actually think voting Greenie 'knowing' she was going to be lynched would have been more throw away. Seems to 'clear' sally based on gut feeling about her posts. Mentions Lottie is being more aggressive toDay but doesn't seem clear on whether that's good or bad. Disagrees with Legate's voting analysis focus, but doesn't mention who then from the votes he thinks suspicion should point towards. Proposes a Legate/Hui pack. My earlier post about Hui/Legate was kind of along similar lines, but because it seems so obvious that Hui is kind of following after Legate's lead, I think it feels less likely that they would be in kahoots.

Huinesoron - spent some time questioning Pitch as they didn't feel that Pitch's previous statements on Greenie then matched his later comments. I can sort of see what they mean given the quotes they've used. Notes that Boro has cheerfully disregarded Legate's additional focus on Pitch and Boro when he discussed Legate's 'narrow' analysis of the voting. That is a good point. Suspects Pitch for his vote (I disagree) and sally due to Form's death (I agree).

Legate - focused on the voting and notes that Lommy and Hui were the 'pushers' of the two wagons, Pitch's vote was throwaway (I disagree as mentioned elsewhere) and Boro who avoided the wagons. Then further develops suspicion of Boro for misrepresenting his voting analysis (as pointed out also by Hui).

Lommy - proposes a Lottie/sally/Hui pack because she feels Lottie rather let sally off the hook and then the way she spoke about Hui in Day 1. I think the attitude toward sally more comes from RL rather than in-game, so I'm not sure I agree with this. Analyses Form and ends up with suspicion of sally.

Loslote - similar sally question post. Explains her vote for Greenie - seems to make sense to me. Greenie and Hui were garnering the most suspicion and possible votes at the time. She feels that Morsul's list post seems to have unfounded suspicions of some people, while seeming to give others an unexplained pass. I do agree that the decisions aren't clearly explained, and I think that's what led to a lot of the debate yesterDay about Morsul as it seemed as though they were flipping between finding particularly Hui innocent one moment and guilty the next without it being very clear why.

Morsul - debating the sally question in much the same way as I did. I'm still of the Occam's razor school of thought on that one. Wondering why Lottie chose to vote between Greenie/Hui rather than going with her prior suspicions, and suggests it was for self preservation. I'm not quite following the logic there? I don't think anyone else had suggested they'd vote Lottie at the time. List post is interesting in that almost each person they comment on gets the treatment of suspicious but not a wolf which doesn't really follow. Not quite sure what they're saying about Lommy's vote in post #131?

Pitch - questions Lottie's vote and suggests she was trying to save Hui. I'm not quite sure where he was going within the post (#142) as apart from himself going from not-vote to possible-vote, I thought Lottie's earlier explanation for her vote was fairly clear.

Sally - if Lottie is going to go after Morsul for wishy-washy lists, then I'll expect the same intensity towards sally's in post #121. Beyond saying Boro and Pitch seem innocent, everyone else gets the 'could be ... but maybe' treatment. Thinks Pitch makes good points about Lottie and would vote for her. She'd earlier mentioned that Lottie was quite aggressive, maybe more so than she'd be as an ordo, so this is consistent at least.

Soriman - have they posted? If so, I didn't note anything as I read through.

[Huinesoron]

Back but on my phone, which doesn't make seeing the bigger picture easy, but I'll try.

Pitch has replied to my questions, and their answers make me feel somewhat better. Their later posts don't - one basically accuses Lottie of changing opinion over Day 1, which, well yeah, while the other is repeating my point to Boro and trying to turn it into an attack on me. Last minute add-on: neither does their repeating Lommy's "Seers don't look random" argument against suspecting Sally.

Boro has also replied, and does not make me feel better. One half is 'I'm ignoring your accusation' (over 2 paragraphs) and the other is 'I know Legate talked about other people but I don't think it counts'. His later post ends by claiming Legate is suspicious for calling a vote 'sinister', which, it's TiG. Sometimes things look evil. I don't know if it's the phone, the hour, or BoroWolf, but the rest of his case just feels like trying to drown us in names.

Lottie hasn't done anything which looks wolfy; as far as I can tell the arguments are "they just Feel Bad", and "they changed their mind on Day 1". Also a touch of "they saved hS", which is nice, but I don't see not finding me evil as necessarily a wolfish tell.

Morsul is a lot more grounded now the action's not on them. That may not be a good thing - I think I speculated "frustrated wolf" yesterDay, which would obviously not be true toDay - but overall they look better.

Sally is going quite hard at Lottie based on feel (and has now voted accordingly) , and saying Pitch is good based on feel. I guess that's just how they operate? Not really good or bad, but convenient if a wolf. As is the curious lack of discussion about the whole "Did Wolf!Sally kill Form?" question.

Kath is here and looks reasonable. I mean, I know that Morsul and Greenie were sitting on my suspicions list all Day 1 (along with Lommy for a while), with Greenie only slipping off momentarily, but I don't know how well it came over in my posts, so.

Legate is... yeah, people are right that I've agreed with them a few times. I think we think and post in similar ways. I haven't read anything that says wolf, but their very reasonableness means I'm still wary.

Lommy in #136 makes a weird-sounding claim that WolfSally wouldn't have thought Form was a Seer because the vote and justification 'didn't seem like Seerish suspicion'. Which, a) a Seer who dreamed a wolf doesn't suspect, but more importantly b) a Seer who thought they could kill their dreamed wolf by making it look random would surely do that rather than going "I SEE that Sally is a wolf, do you SEE what I mean".

Soriman is absent. I'd really like to see what they have to say.

At this point I find Boro most suspicious in isolation, but either Pitch or (to a lesser extent) Lommy in conjunction with a wolf Sally.

(xed with Kath)

hS

[Kath]

My current suspicions definitely start with sallybecause of the Night kill and I'm pretty sure that's where my vote is going toDay.

Boro would be on the list what with the oddness over the way he interpreted Legate's voting analysis, but with that said I think there's something strange with the Legate/Hui connection as well. I think I'd lean towards a Hui-wolf more than a Legate one because of the direction of the connection.

Lottie's been mentioned a lot toDay. I'm getting more frustrated ordo than forcing-a-focus wolf and I think she explained her vote clearly enough, so she wouldn't be on my concerns list at the moment.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Actually, I have a question for Pitch. At what point yesterDay did you realize that the first one of the two of us to vote would probably decide the lynch? Was it before or after I voted? You seemed like you didn't realize it until Sally no-voted, but I realized after Boro's vote. Were you really not aware that you had the power to decide who went to the Dead Thread? If you felt that Greenie was more trustworthy than Huin, knowing that the first vote wins in case of a tie, why didn't you vote earlier? Why did you wait and let me make the choice, then bemoan your lack of power after the fact?

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

If it's between Hui and Greenie, I'd actually (Legate 180 incoming) rather go for Hui just now. Anybody else?

That was 4 minutes after your vote. Does that answer you? Does my exasperation when sally no-voted?

DL is 1am my time, I should have been in bed at least an hour before, I had no suspicions I felt were strong enough to warrant a vote (those against yourself and Kath were rather flimsy), so I hung around hoping for something more substantial to turn up... too long.

[Kath]

Voting time for me. Given my feeling that the wolves have to gun for the Seer with every Night kill, and that therefore they were working on a Form-Seer hypothesis, my vote goes to:

++sally

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Kath

Morsul - Lommy's vote in post #131?

My point was they decried bandwagons then *possibly* jumped on one

[Soriman the Whide]

Appologies for my scarce posts, I should have more time for this game in the coming days.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Soriman- newbie pass I feel a new wolf would be more panicky?

Of course, everyone can trust me! The meta gaming really gives me a free pass .

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Under this model, there are lots of singular votes that by themselves do not say much except that they are still creating alternatives (and at the same time are potentially throwaway). Whom I would put under scrutiny are actually the people who made the second votes, thus making the bandwagons roll (Lommy and Hui, with the added value that Hui was acting clearly with the bonus to prevent a wagon against himself - the question of course being that he could have equally well voted for Morsul or Pitch, if it was just about that). Either of them could have acted as Wolves protecting one of Morsul or Pitch (who had votes from before) by supporting bandwagons for somebody else.

I can follow this line of thinking and it does make sense to me, Huin does seem suspicious to me but I do not know if this is just his aggressive playstyle, I feel most people would aggressivley defend their life if they can but Huin also appears (at least to me) to favour shifting blame to others.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

This though is just very narrow and focused on only 2 people, Lommy and Huey (those who made the 2nd vote for either Greenie/Huey). Why do you ignore the 1st votes for Greenie or Huey? I'm not buying the "1st votes for someone aren't suspicious because it's still creating an alternative and thus the 2nd votes are more suspicious because those votes got a potential bandwagon going."

Wouldn't it be likely the wolves will follow the first votes on day one? After the first votes wovles can more safely vote without having to hold their vote to save a fellow wolf. If someone voted with a bandwagon there is still safety in the large group.

I can't be certain of anything but I hope Huin is on our side as he seems like a powerful ally.


That said I'm just going to lock in my vote for ++Lottie as Huins most likely packmate (if he is one of them) in my mind.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Back, I had dinner and caught up and now I have time to be around...

I cannot help but think something is happening in the Pitch-Lottie interaction. The whole back-and-forth is a horrible lock-up that makes me think one of them is a Wolf - and given the options that yesterDay's voting pattern offers, there are other reasons that might support it. My money would be on Pitch also because his vote was technically more throwaway, more traceless. Well I spoke about all the options in my post early in the Day. Another, even though perhaps farfetched possibility is that all this debate is some strange Wolf-on-Wolf (we can go back to the too-good-to-be-true scenario where the two of them and Hui are all Wolves). But that is already thinking very far.

Originally Posted by Kath

Actually all the way through yesterDay Hui seems to be sort of following Legate's lead.

This is an interesting remark from Kath and I did not realise it fully at first, but in retrospect, it is true - and I am not sure what to make of it. Hui is certainly no beginner player who would need to latch onto and just copypaste somebody else's opinion. But it seems to me we have also converged at multiple times, so maybe we just think in a similar manner.

Originally Posted by Loslote

If there was a LottieWolf, maybe. I am not a wolf. You will get no information from lynching me, and the people who are spending the whole Day barking up this tree are giving the wolves perfect cover in which to operate. Please, just look at one (1) other person toDay. The village doesn’t benefit from wasting the whole day suspecting the same (innocent, believe it or not) person.

This came a bit out of the blue, or, not entirely, there has been suspicion about Lottie, but I would certainly not say that people have not been looking at anybody else. So funnily enough, while so far the way Lottie posted has been more or less on the neutral level for me, I would say this was the first thing that stood out notably. That being said, I do think there are others than Lottie whose posting or actions would seem much more likely wolfy to me than hers.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

It's also true that you considered Morsul being the first to vote for Huey, but to me, you very clearly wanted to put the attention to those who cast the 2nd votes (Huey and Lommy)

(...)
And my argument is, a single vote a bandwagon does not make, but a single vote has the same potential to start a bandwagon.

But you can say that about any vote, obviously. If I understand you correctly, and if you are genuine about this, then it seems to me we just differ in the manner of rhetorics. I simply believe that the second votes, especially in this small number, were more decisive than singular first votes. It's like if I said "billionnaires are rich" and then you disputed me by saying that millionnaires are also rich. I am not disputing that they are.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I chalked this up to perhaps being a language barrier difference, because I agreed with your overall conclusion that Pitch's vote was a throwaway and looks like "keeping record clean" when Greenie is revealed innocent. I didn't register Legate categorizing Pitch's vote as sinister until Huey brought it up in his post #134.

It may very well be a language barrier thing, but if anything Lottie's vote is the sinister one and Pitch's is the "safe throwaway."

You can call it whichever way you want. Both were possibly incriminating there. Pitch's was, let's call it more conveniently placed, and it both followed a switch from his older suspects to voting somebody who was likely not going to get lynched and at the same time not getting his hands dirty by lynching an innocent. Bonus value if Hui is a Wolf and Pitch thus cast a Wolf-on-Wolf vote in a safe space. That was the gist of what I was saying about him.

EDIT: x-ed from the start of the page

[Huinesoron]

Votes so far

Morsul > Sally
Sally > Lottie
Kath > Sally [2]
Soriman > Lottie [2]

I think lynching a WolfSally would shed a lot of light, but I also think it would be an easy lynch for the wolves to jump on board because of the "SeerForm" thing. Also, per my last, I have no read on Sally as wolfish except for "SeerForm" logic.

Interrupting myself because Soriman is here and... voting for Lottie with no reasoning other than them being my most likely packmate (but not voting me). Um... what?

But it's nearly 10pm and I'm too tired to stay up and see more. :-/ I think Lottie is likely innocent, and Sally is a coin-toss, so I'm going to put in a vote for my 'most likely wolf' per my last post:

++BOROMIR88

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Votes so far

Interrupting myself because Soriman is here and... voting for Lottie with no reasoning other than them being my most likely packmate (but not voting me). Um... what?

I’d like to second this opinion.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

This came a bit out of the blue, or, not entirely, there has been suspicion about Lottie, but I would certainly not say that people have not been looking at anybody else. So funnily enough, while so far the way Lottie posted has been more or less on the neutral level for me, I would say this was the first thing that stood out notably. That being said, I do think there are others than Lottie whose posting or actions would seem much more likely wolfy to me than hers.

That was a moment of frustration - I was seeing Morsul and Sally just focus on me and not really look at anyone else, and I wanted to see them talk more about other people. Just focusing on me all Day doesn't leave a trail at all connecting them to other people, including possible packmates, and I was feeling a bit attacked in the moment. I stepped away and calmed down, thankfully!

I have to run a couple of errands, but I will be back an hour before the deadline. My top suspicions now are Sally, for what feels like an unnecessarily narrow focus on me leading to her not tying herself in any way to potential packmates, and Pitch, for holding his vote yesterDay long enough to let me make the decision, because if both were innocent and he knew it, that way he wouldn't dirty his hands. I get weird vibes from Lommy, Boro, and Legate, but I haven't had time to parse through that and decide what it is that gives me the bad vibe from any of them, and I think I'm just overall confused about how I feel about them rather than suspicious, if that makes sense. Hopefully I will be able to get a clearer sense when I get back - if not, I'll spend some time looking through all three toNight.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

That said I'm just going to lock in my vote for ++Lottie as Huins most likely packmate (if he is one of them) in my mind.

Well this escalated quickly. I'm happy that you are here and posting. But is this just based on the premise that Hui is a Wolf??? Would not in such a case it make sense to vote for him - not to speak that what if the premise itself was false?

EDIT: x-ed after my last

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Otherwise... I would personally prefer to vote, well, after what happened a moment ago I'd feel like voting for Soriman on impulse, but a) I would like to hear some clarification and b) I do not feel like casting a vote based on effectively the only post he's made.

But otherwise my top options would include Pitch and Boro with his strange analysis, and I think lynching Hui would also clarify several things, even though I started feeling better about him during the course of toDay. Of those who have votes I am not comfortable to cast my vote for Lottie and with lynching sally there are just so many "what ifs" - the whole Form question of frames or double-frames or whatever.

I will think on this; I am not going to sleep yet at this very moment.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Kath

Day 2 then:

Boro

Yes, but some of the people on said list were sally and Soriman because he was talking about the lurkers, so I'm not quite sure what you're meaning here.

Form had engaged with several people Day 1...so my point is someone's vote isn't the only trail they leave. Form throughout the day responded/interacted to comments made by myself, Lottie, Lommy, Huey, Kath and voted for sally. Sally and Soriman had no vote trail, but also I don't recall them interacting with anyone.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Boro has also replied, and does not make me feel better. One half is 'I'm ignoring your accusation' (over 2 paragraphs) and the other is 'I know Legate talked about other people but I don't think it counts'. His later post ends by claiming Legate is suspicious for calling a vote 'sinister', which, it's TiG. Sometimes things look evil. I don't know if it's the phone, the hour, or BoroWolf, but the rest of his case just feels like trying to drown us in names.

Now see this is a mis-representation. The 1st time you made the accusation I took it as you were probing for a response. You categorize my reply as "I'm ignoring your accusation" but you yourself are ignoring my stated reasons:

I think I do detect an attempted distraction. So, sorry Huey, won't engage in a conversation that looks like you're trying to derail and argue with me about something I said I was going to ignore.

I said I don't want to be pulled into a debate about something that has no bearing on what the focus on today should be; who I'm suspicious of and lynching a wolf. You returning to this and categorizing as I'm just ignoring your accusation is mis-representing my post. *ping*

As to the 2nd reason of me supposedly "mis-representing" Legate's vote analysis. Can someone please explain what is mysteriously "odd" about it and how it's mis-representing it? (Someone other than Huey or Legate, because I don't trust either of them at the moment). Kath, you have just called it odd? How so because quite frankly I'm confused.

Look...6 people voted for either Greenie or Huey.

Legate's analysis was, explain away the first 2 people (himself and Morsul) under the premise that "the 1st votes for someone aren't the starters of a bandwagon, they are bringing up other alternatives." Then he narrows in and directs the "scrutiny" to those who made the 2nd vote (Lommy and Huey); under the premise that the 2nd vote is the one that actually starts the bandwagon. Again, this makes the 2nd time Legate has used "Huey + someone else" to focus the "scrutiny" on.

Day 1 it was Huey and Greenie:

Originally Posted by Legate #16

I am not entirely sure how Boro's comment constitutes as "launching a Day 1s are pointless-debate".

Now Hui seems to be poking around inquisitively overall, which is an activity that by itself can serve both good and evil purposes, so if this is just a part of that, whatever; but the formulation (the not-outright-accusing, yet suggestive "I find it a little suspicious", while putting words into Boro's mouth) does not seem right to me. Even stranger is that Greenie basically repeats the same, which just gives me the vibe of "quoting without checking the source", i.e. having seen Hui slightly suspect Boro and just latch on to that. That would be a very good move for a Wolf to pull.

Overall it's just weird because I don't read it as Boro "launching" any "debate" on "Day 1 pointlessness" in the first place.

Clarifications, anyone?

Day 2 is Huey and Lommy:

Originally Posted by Legate

Under this model, there are lots of singular votes that by themselves do not say much except that they are still creating alternatives (and at the same time are potentially throwaway). Whom I would put under scrutiny are actually the people who made the second votes, thus making the bandwagons roll (Lommy and Hui, with the added value that Hui was acting clearly with the bonus to prevent a wagon against himself - the question of course being that he could have equally well voted for Morsul or Pitch, if it was just about that). Either of them could have acted as Wolves protecting one of Morsul or Pitch (who had votes from before) by supporting bandwagons for somebody else.

If this isn't trying to narrow in a small number of suspect, I really don't know what is. Twice in 2 days, but I'm the "mysteriously" odd one for pointing it out.

Edit: Crossed with everyone after Morsul's #166

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Soriman the Whide

Of course, everyone can trust me! The meta gaming really gives me a free pass .

That’s not eyebrow raising at all.

I hate voting early this post sends Every bad vibe

[Boromir88]

Legate's response does give me a slight bit of caution and glad I decided to step back. I do find his analysis still suspicious, but these are good points to my belaboring the point throughout the day:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But you can say that about any vote, obviously. If I understand you correctly, and if you are genuine about this, then it seems to me we just differ in the manner of rhetorics. I simply believe that the second votes, especially in this small number, were more decisive than singular first votes. It's like if I said "billionnaires are rich" and then you disputed me by saying that millionnaires are also rich. I am not disputing that they are.


You can call it whichever way you want. Both were possibly incriminating there. Pitch's was, let's call it more conveniently placed, and it both followed a switch from his older suspects to voting somebody who was likely not going to get lynched and at the same time not getting his hands dirty by lynching an innocent. Bonus value if Hui is a Wolf and Pitch thus cast a Wolf-on-Wolf vote in a safe space. That was the gist of what I was saying about him.

Both fair. Pitch's and Lottie's votes are incriminating and it could be a difference in the manner of how we interpret and judge the placement of when people vote.

Huey is shooting up red flags and it's not because he's voted or suspects me at all. It's this, which I definitely classify as "sinister."

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

At this point I find Boro most suspicious in isolation, but either Pitch or (to a lesser extent) Lommy in conjunction with a wolf Sally.

So you're most suspicious of me and cast suspicion my way, and state that Pitch and Lommy are also less suspicious, but out of the 4 of us you called sally a wolf. If you truly think sally is a wolf...why not vote for sally? So are you saying Pitch and Lommy are suspicious if sally turns out to be a wolf?

Then in your post that you voted for me, again you throw up "wolfSally"

Originally Posted by Huey

I think lynching a WolfSally would shed a lot of light, but I also think it would be an easy lynch for the wolves to jump on board because of the "SeerForm" thing. Also, per my last, I have no read on Sally as wolfish except for "SeerForm" logic.

If you think lynching wolfSally would shed more light on things...why in the blazes did you vote for me? I get if I look suspicious, fare enough, but this is VERY RED FLAG. "Lynching wolfSally might shed some more light on things, but I'm just going to vote for someone else anyway."

[Pitchwife]

So, looking at yesterDay's non-votees. This is going to be impressionistic as I'm getting tired.
Boro - want to trust him and second-guessing myself. Ilike his thought-processes and to some part the conclusions he arrives at, esp. about a Legate/Hui connection (the part about "Hui + X").
Kath - I'm a bit worried by her single-minded conviction that Form's death must point to sally's guilt, which I'd expect from a wolf whose pack went for a no trace kill with the benefit of framing sally. The rest of her posts seem very reasonable and balanced.
Legate - is a slippery fish, also a furry fish? (would that be seal, or an otter?) Among the five non-votees I'm least inclined to trust him ATM. It doesn't help that he keeps painting me black. Also just saw this:

Originally Posted by Legate

I think lynching Hui would also clarify several things, even though I started feeling better about him during the course of toDay

What the frell is this? If you're feeling better about someone you don't consider lynching them just to clarify things!

Lommy - found her suspicious early yesterDay, felt better about her later, haven't examined her enough to form a solid opinion since


If it's between Lottie and sally I'll be in a sore place. I do get the frustrated innocent ring from Lottie, and I don't really get the case against sally.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If you think lynching wolfSally would shed more light on things...why in the blazes did you vote for me? I get if I look suspicious, fare enough, but this is VERY RED FLAG. "Lynching wolfSally might shed some more light on things, but I'm just going to vote for someone else anyway."

Blaarg, this is why I couldn't sleep, I knew someone would pick a turn of phrase and try to make make me a Definite Wolf over it... since it was apparently not obvious, by "wolf!Sally" I meant that IF Sally is a wolf, lynching them would be best because it would provide information on Pitch and Lommy (as stated, it would look bad for them IF Sally is a wolf). But I have NOT read anything which makes Sally feel like a wolf to me, and so I think it's a coin toss: WolfSally or InnocentSally.

Since I'm pretty sure you are a wolf, I'd rather lynch you than gamble on Sally.

hS (is still trying to sleep)

Xed with Pitch

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Pitch

What the frell is this? If you're feeling better about someone you don't consider lynching them just to clarify things!

Unless, I might add, you don't care either way who gets lynched as long as it's not one of your pack.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What the frell is this? If you're feeling better about someone you don't consider lynching them just to clarify things!

"Better", but not exonerating. I am still considering him suspicious enough to merit a vote otherwise.

[Thinlómien]

So toDay Huin/Legate/Boro is a thing? I can't quite put my finger on it, but the blaming others for tunnel vision while tunnel visioning themselves circle is certainly eye catching. Something about it seems fishy to me. Sorry, that's not very analytical I know but something's off there. I'm also tempted to give them all a pass for toDay - which I probably shouldn't - because all their long posts, especially Boro and Legate's, are giving me headache. They're getting pretty advanced, and I don't have the patience right now (it's 0.30 and the last workday of the week and I'm feeling it) to untangle it. But I'm saying once again there's something furry going on here.

I feel better about both Morsul and Lottie. They're giving me vibes of frustrated ordos trying to work things out.

I'm a little frustrated about Sally (sorry kidney muffin, I know you must be frustrated too) and her lack of participation. Does she seem guilty to me? No, not really, I don't think it very likely she'd kill Form as a wolf, she's not that paranoid usually. Does she seem innocent to me? No, because she hasn't said anything that would make me trust her either. Should we lynch her? Who knows?? It's a shot in the dark, but I would prefer it to lynching someone I consider innocent. Should we give her a pass until Day3 just because she's been busy? That doesn't sound fair either.

Generally re: the seer/ wolf kill speculation. I'm gonna criticise myself here a little too (see my formalysis) but I don't understand why people are so hell bent in always thinking the wolves would kill someone who looks like a seer because they suspected them. I mean statistically seers are much more likely to dream of innocents. The wolves know who are innocent. Ergo, wouldn't they be on the lookout for someone seerishly talking about someone innocent as innocent, not just for someone seerishly talking about a wolf as suspicious?

I feel considerably less good about Kath toDay than yesterDay. I mean she comes, posts bulky analyses that are mostly recap, makes again a very easy vote (yesterDay Morsul who's a guaranteed suspicion grabber on day1 regardless of his role, toDay Sally whom Form's death mildly implicates and who's not really around to defend herself).

Originally Posted by Huin

Lommy in #136 makes a weird-sounding claim that WolfSally wouldn't have thought Form was a Seer because the vote and justification 'didn't seem like Seerish suspicion'. Which, a) a Seer who dreamed a wolf doesn't suspect, but more importantly b) a Seer who thought they could kill their dreamed wolf by making it look random would surely do that rather than going "I SEE that Sally is a wolf, do you SEE what I mean".

Okay fair point, I didn't think of it that way! I thought Form's phrasing didn't look seerish and ergo wolf!Sally wouldn't likely have been worried about it, but it's true that in the seer's case especially actions mean more than words, and a seer!Form who had dreamed of wolf!Sally would have certainly taken the opportunity to lynch her if possible. Maybe I'm a bit slow but I didn't think of it from that angle (maybe because I know Form wasn't the seer)

Soriman's vote = ????????????

Originally Posted by Legate

This is an interesting remark from Kath and I did not realise it fully at first, but in retrospect, it is true - and I am not sure what to make of it. Hui is certainly no beginner player who would need to latch onto and just copypaste somebody else's opinion. But it seems to me we have also converged at multiple times, so maybe we just think in a similar manner.

Or you're both wolves and working as a united front in order to terminate the village faster?


edit: xed with Pitch and Legate

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Blaarg, this is why I couldn't sleep, I knew someone would pick a turn of phrase and try to make make me a Definite Wolf over it... since it was apparently not obvious, by "wolf!Sally" I meant that IF Sally is a wolf, lynching them would be best because it would provide information on Pitch and Lommy (as stated, it would look bad for them IF Sally is a wolf). But I have NOT read anything which makes Sally feel like a wolf to me, and so I think it's a coin toss: WolfSally or InnocentSally.

Since I'm pretty sure you are a wolf, I'd rather lynch you than gamble on Sally.

hS (is still trying to sleep)

Xed with Pitch

Is it a turn of a phrase or a slip to protect yourself if I am lynched and revealed to everyone that I am innocent?

Because you have listed the people you are suspicious of (Myself, Lommy, Pitch, and sally) and only referred to sally as a wolf. Now if you are innocent and truly voting for me, being the most suspicious looking person to you, fair enough. But you didn't call me a wolf in your post when you voted for me. You said in your vote post for me that I was "most likely a wolf," while directly referring to sally as a wolf.

But I've said my bit on this, made my point now and won't continue hammering on about it.

++Huey

[Galadriel55]

Morsul --> Sally
Sally --> Lottie
Kath --> Sally (2)
Soriman --> Lottie (2)
Hui --> Boro
Boro --> Hui


DL in 1 hour. Dead vote comes in at deadline.

[Thinlómien]

As I said, I would prefer the whole Legate/Hui/Boro kettle of fish for toMorrow because I'm not sure what to think about it. I feel considerably less certain of Legate and Boro's innocence than yesterDay - both of them have been a little shady toDay - but I don't think I have any actual arguments against them. Huin I still find suspicious, but Form's death makes him look a little better. If I had to pick one of them to lynch toDay I would probably prefer Huin over Legate, and Legate over Boro. But I would still like to unpack this with a fresher brain.

Like I said, Lottie and Morsul look better to me now. Not a huge fan of the idea of lynching either of them toDay.

Sally? I'm okay with that, but I'm not sure it's the smartest move. I feel like this whole Sally thing has been blown a little out of proportion while she's not here to defend herself, which is a little suspicious in itself.

I would feel the most comfortable voting Kath (see my previous post) or Pitchwife, whose argumentation keeps going in circles I cannot understand and that seem concoluted and wolvish to me.

But if I had to pick from the current vote candidates, I'd probably go for Sally. I have less misgivings about it than about lynching Boro or Lottie.

Oh yes and Soriman. Really not sure what to make of that. His argumentation is bizarre and he's on par with Sally when it comes to how much content he's posted. Not very impressed by his vote, but not sure it merits being called suspicious. It's mostly odd.


edit: xed with Gal and Boro

[Thinlómien]

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS HUIN / BORO / LEGATE BOVINE EXCREMENT????

Now you're making me consider it toDay. I have a headache.

I really don't know which one of you is the wolf / wolves, but if you're all three innocent I'm gonna eat my mousepad.*


*...or with my recent ww track record, maybe not. But you get the sentiment.

[Thinlómien]

Btw currently contemplating the idea of a Boro / Huin / Legate pack and laughing my head off. I can't say if they'd be brilliant or really terrible at their job. But I'm pretty sure it would play out almost exactly like this. They'd probably have planned their wolf-on-wolf drama beforehand at Night.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Hui

I think lynching a WolfSally would shed a lot of light, but I also think it would be an easy lynch for the wolves to jump on board because of the "SeerForm" thing. Also, per my last, I have no read on Sally as wolfish except for "SeerForm" logic.

Much as I dislike the idea of lynching people for no better reason than to 'shed light on things', I think I get what Hui is saying here, and I agree with the last sentence. (so should Boro by the way!)

[Thinlómien]

So, who hasn't voted?

Legate, Pitch, Lottie and myself?

I would still prefer Kath or Pitch, but especially the latter seems to be off the table for toDay...


edit: xed with Pitch

[Loslote]

I'm here, and I will be until the deadline! I could go for either Sally or Pitch, I have vaguely good feelings about Kath so I wouldn't want to vote for her. I don't want to go for Boro or Huin toDay, either, I'm too confused about them to in good conscience vote for them.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I got distracted for a bit but now I am back...

I am not sure what to think about Boro suddenly being so friendly, plus now I see Boro voted Hui and Hui voted Boro, as if to challenge me to vote for the other. Well, I am probably more inclined to vote Boro, also because of the conciliatory tone of his #176.

Need to make sense of things, slightly catching up stuff here. Will try to make sense of stuff soon, hopefully not crossposted with too many again.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS HUIN / BORO / LEGATE BOVINE EXCREMENT????

The only thing I'm certain of toDay, is I will gladly offer my service to my Lord and my loyal companions. If that service requires my life so I can join my fallen brethren, Form and Greenie, then so be it.

I hope I have not erred with my stubbornness by actually aiding the 3 betrayers among us. Some of my initial conclusions yesterday may have been misplaced, but I don't think I've erred today. If I have then may death reveal my true heart.

Edit: crossed with Lottie and Legate

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Btw currently contemplating the idea of a Boro / Huin / Legate pack and laughing my head off. I can't say if they'd be brilliant or really terrible at their job. But I'm pretty sure it would play out almost exactly like this. They'd probably have planned their wolf-on-wolf drama beforehand at Night.

This just made me laugh out loud so hard, and I'm still laughing. Bad thing is, I can totally see it, and honestly, right now I'd probably feel more confident voting any of them than I'd feel about voting anybody else (possibly excepting Kath). Order of preference being Legate > Hui > Boro.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I'm here, and I will be until the deadline! I could go for either Sally or Pitch, I have vaguely good feelings about Kath so I wouldn't want to vote for her. I don't want to go for Boro or Huin toDay, either, I'm too confused about them to in good conscience vote for them.

I don’t want to influence you put this popped into my head if we kill Sally and she’s innocent since I decided to vote her over you
This.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Argh. I was just about to say that I'd prefer voting Boro over Hui, but now this is going into directions I do not have the brain capacity for at this hour.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I got distracted for a bit but now I am back...

I am not sure what to think about Boro suddenly being so friendly, plus now I see Boro voted Hui and Hui voted Boro, as if to challenge me to vote for the other. Well, I am probably more inclined to vote Boro, also because of the conciliatory tone of his #176.

Need to make sense of things, slightly catching up stuff here. Will try to make sense of stuff soon, hopefully not crossposted with too many again.

Well, if you believe it when I say it, it wasn't conciliation. As I said I still find those your points suspicious, but your responses back gave me a bit of pause. Huey jumped ahead of you the way he hyper zoned in on me after I was focusing in on you.

I don't like the misrepresentation that I ignored his accusation, especially since it ignored my point that I wasn't interested in distractions: See this post

[Thinlómien]

I'm getting to the point that I would be tempted to lynch one of Hui / Boro / Legate just to shed light on the others' roles. I think it would be more informative than finding out Sally's role, just saying. Sally's been so quiet she's scarcely mentioned anyone. (Others have mentioned her, of course. But there's nothing to compare to if we could untie the whole Hui / Boro / Legate knot.)

(Side note: I'm also thinking I'm not thinking this through, and not sure if I should act in the heat of the moment. I'm not really sure about any of Hui / Boro / Legate. I mean they're all fishy but I feel like one should have something more concrete on Day2.)

It's kind of comforting to me that Sally was the first one to get the 2 votes, because if toDay's voting ends in a chaos and multiple ties, then we at lynch someone I don't consider particularly innocent, if I don't have enough grounds to suspect her either. (I would feel more worried about the situation if Lottie had got the 2 votes first.)


edit: xed with several

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

It's kind of comforting to me that Sally was the first one to get the 2 votes, because if toDay's voting ends in a chaos and multiple ties, then we at lynch someone I don't consider particularly innocent, if I don't have enough grounds to suspect her either. (I would feel more worried about the situation if Lottie had got the 2 votes first.)

The Dead will also be voting today, I believe, so we should be aware that any ties or one vote leads might flip when their vote is announced.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lottie

The Dead will also be voting today, I believe, so we should be aware that any ties or one vote leads might flip when their vote is announced.

Good point. But I don't think we can do much about that, eh? They're two innocents there, I trust them to their job and vote for someone suspicious. And since we can't guess who they will vote, it'll have to be a surprise. Better make it a good one, Greenie and Form, we're counting on you!

[Thinlómien]

Well, what the hell. Someone's gotta do something.

++Huinesoron

Out of the trio of doom, it's him and Boro who have votes, and I suspect him more than Boro (yes despite suspecting him a little less after the Form kill). So if we start unraveling that knot, I suggest starting here.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I think I am simply lacking the attention span to do anything more than vote. I will just go with Hui. Let's hope that if he dies, it will help untangle several questions.

++Huinesoron

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy