Werewolf CXII - Dueling Wizards III - The Living Thread

[Mithalwen]

I don't think that we necessarily need to have a default request system in place early as long as we give the dead sensible options which are adhered to and not changed midstream. Spending too much time now exploring various permutations really would be an unnecessary displacement activity at this point.
Don't want to end up like this again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

This would not be possible. The Evil Wizard couldn't create and then kill that wolf in the same NIGHT. If the Evil Wizard tried something like this the victim would go to the Dead Thread as an Ordo.

That wouldn't preclude killing that wolf on a subsequent NIGHT, but it wouldn't work to do it on the same NIGHT.

I wasn't actually talking about the EW killing her wolf the very same Night the wolf was created. Sorry if I phrased it badly.

My concern was, whether the "evil side" could have killed Morsul last Night if there was no wolf turned already on the pre-game Night (whether there was not a wolf among us on D1)?

Aka. if the EW didn't turn anyone into a wolf before D1 started, could she have turned someone into a wolf last Night and then have Morsul killed the very same Night she turned her first wolf into being?

Looking at it from the other POV. If there would be no wolf now, then no-one would have died last Night because there a) is no wolf to do the killing, and b) the EW has not turned anyone a wolf aka. (by rules) can't kill anyone solo either?

So it concerns the speculation about whehter there was a wolf among us yesterDay, not whether the EW killed her puppy just to send her into the Dead-thread (which would be quite insane - or phantomish)...

[Loslote]

As far as the Dead Thread communication goes, I think it is better to have a consistent plan than it is to try to wing it. Sure, something may go wrong, but that can be addressed by putting in a failsafe - say, empower the first or last people alphabetically if something has gone terribly wrong, and we can work out a new plan to draw out what, exactly, has gone wrong the next Day. If we don't have a plan at all, getting any information from the Dead Thread becomes much more difficult, and the possibility of confusion increases drastically. I am honestly side-eying Nog for, as far as I can tell, dismissing the idea of *having a plan at all*. Sure, it can get messy, but if we don't have a solid plan, communication would be almost impossible. I'm less wary of Mith, who doesn't like the plan but is suggesting alternatives rather than effectively saying "communicating with the Dead Thread is hard, we shouldn't even try". All but one of us is in the living thread *right now*, now is the time to hash this out, when everyone can make sure they're comfortable with the plan in the case that they are the ones who end up in the Dead Thread.

As far as Morsul goes, I wonder if the EW killed him in part as a way to shield the rest of the last minute voters from scrutiny. Morsul was one of the earlier and more bold voters, and by focusing attention on his vote, maybe the EW was hoping to draw our attention away from a vote like Zil's for Nerwen, or the votes for me, or even the votes for Boro meant to tie it up. At any rate, I think we, as a village, haven't spent much time looking at those, and I do want to take a closer look.

[Mithalwen]

The important thing as I recall was to limit the questions so that the dead had a multiple choice of votes to allow for their special knowledge. We don't want to mess up lynching a wolf to know x in the dead thread was an ordo.
And a get out clause if the living don't know what they are asking for. Working out all possible permutations seems a bit unnecessary at this point. I would have to look back but I think it did work most of the time apart from the day 3 or four people posted their preferred options very late.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

If we don't have a plan at all, getting any information from the Dead Thread becomes much more difficult, and the possibility of confusion increases drastically.

Maybe I'm just thick, but is the Dead activity really going to give the Living much useful info, other than the knowledge that the Dead gave someone an extra vote (for, to the Living, unknown motives)?

Originally Posted by Loslote

As far as Morsul goes, I wonder if the EW killed him in part as a way to shield the rest of the last minute voters from scrutiny. Morsul was one of the earlier and more bold voters, and by focusing attention on his vote, maybe the EW was hoping to draw our attention away from a vote like Zil's for Nerwen, or the votes for me, or even the votes for Boro meant to tie it up.

I think that's a stretch, but worthy of thought, I guess.

x/d with Mith

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Maybe I'm just thick, but is the Dead activity really going to give the Living much useful info, other than the knowledge that the Dead gave someone an extra vote (for, to the Living, unknown motives)?

If we have a clear plan, the empowerment won't be based on unknown motives. There will be three clear options - empower someone from one group of people if person x was innocent, from a second group if evil, and from a third, failsafe group if something is wrong. That way, the Dead have options for who they want to empower in order to convey the information, and we can avoid the situation where the Dead don't want to vote for the person we selected as the "person x was innocent" message.

This assumes the Dead reveal the roles in order of arrival, but I think that's reasonable, and if they have to depart from the plan, they can use the failsafe and wait for a Visitor to deliver the more complicated message.

[Boromir88]

I was intending to break a tie. But I'll take the rest to the grave with me.

I'm here for the rest of the day. Reading, catching up and I guess I'll go from there and see if today brings any changes.

Good to see everyone here and some healthy participation.

[Boromir88]

In theory, maybe the EW didn't create a wolf N1. So, D1 there was no wolf and the EW was just trying to get a lynch/small chance to expose the GW/gifted. What would be the advantage to create a wolf N1, other than create a small chance of possibly losing the wolf in a lucky D1 lynch? If by creating a wolf N2, the EW then gets to make a kill on N2, I'd definitely wait until N2 until creating a wolf. If I were the EW, just to get the joy of seeing a completely fruitless D1 lynch, because there would be no wolf to lynch.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

If we have a clear plan, the empowerment won't be based on unknown motives. There will be three clear options - empower someone from one group of people if person x was innocent, from a second group if evil, and from a third, failsafe group if something is wrong. That way, the Dead have options for who they want to empower in order to convey the information, and we can avoid the situation where the Dead don't want to vote for the person we selected as the "person x was innocent" message.

But if the lists of whom to empower, as set out by Steve are alphabetical, doesn't that have a innate randomness?

Leeroy, I'm starting to sympathize.

Originally Posted by Loslote

This assumes the Dead reveal the roles in order of arrival, but I think that's reasonable, and if they have to depart from the plan, they can use the failsafe and wait for a Visitor to deliver the more complicated message.

Then again, the wait for either Visitor could be a protracted one.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

In theory, maybe the EW didn't create a wolf N1. So, D1 there was no wolf and the EW was just trying to get a lynch/small chance to expose the GW/gifted. What would be the advantage to create a wolf N1, other than create a small chance of possibly losing the wolf in a lucky D1 lynch? If by creating a wolf N2, the EW then gets to make a kill on N2, I'd definitely wait until N2 until creating a wolf. If I were the EW, just to get the joy of seeing a completely fruitless D1 lynch, because there would be no wolf to lynch.

You could be right. Odds are we do have a wolf now, though.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

But if the lists of whom to empower, as set out by Steve are alphabetical, doesn't that have a innate randomness?

We want there to be at least a couple of possible people to empower for each option, so that the Dead aren't forced to affect the vote in a way they didn't want. The alphabetical ordering is just one way of dividing the living into groups, we could go with another. Most methods of dividing into groups are going to be about as good as the others, though.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

In theory, maybe the EW didn't create a wolf N1. So, D1 there was no wolf and the EW was just trying to get a lynch/small chance to expose the GW/gifted. What would be the advantage to create a wolf N1, other than create a small chance of possibly losing the wolf in a lucky D1 lynch? If by creating a wolf N2, the EW then gets to make a kill on N2, I'd definitely wait until N2 until creating a wolf. If I were the EW, just to get the joy of seeing a completely fruitless D1 lynch, because there would be no wolf to lynch.

I think that the EW wouldn't get a kill if they waited for N2, based on what Kuru said earlier:

Originally Posted by Kuru

This would not be possible. The Evil Wizard couldn't create and then kill that wolf in the same NIGHT. If the Evil Wizard tried something like this the victim would go to the Dead Thread as an Ordo.

Based on that, it seems like the wolf isn't actually a wolf until dawn breaks. I think. Could we get a rule clarification, Kuru?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

You could be right. Odds are we do have a wolf now, though.

Point being. it might be worth taking a look at those voting and who were pursuing a lynch yesterday as EW suspects. Granted, one of the more vocal "lynch someone" voices was Morsul.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

We want there to be at least a couple of possible people to empower for each option, so that the Dead aren't forced to affect the vote in a way they didn't want. The alphabetical ordering is just one way of dividing the living into groups, we could go with another. Most methods of dividing into groups are going to be about as good as the others, though.

Well, they don't have to empower anyone, do they?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, they don't have to empower anyone, do they?

No, but we don't want to put them in a position where they have to chose between communicating information and not messing up the lynch. Having options gives them the ability to both communicate and potentially have some impact on the lynch vote.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I can't believe he was targeted as a potential Good Wizard. From the evil point of view, would the Good Wizard really go so far on a limb Day 1 to cast a vote on a wolf he'd scryed? And how likely would it have been that the GW would forego a Gifted creation on Night 1, lacking any data on anyone, just to randomly pick someone for a role-reveal?

Context- more likely than the other scenario that a Wolflote killed him out of spite/panic. That was my only point. (Honestly I don't find her particularly suspicious anyway.)

x/d with the Mod- so the EW and wolves might have had some benefit to going after a possible GW Morsul- except they didn't have this clarification at that time.

Ahem. How do you know???

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Ahem. How do you know???

Ahem. Because Kuru just said it toDay?

[Inziladun]

And yes, I know the baddies could have asked Kuru themselves, but I don't think it likely.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And yes, I know the baddies could have asked Kuru themselves, but I don't think it likely.

Actually, I'd have thought it very likely... and you were so certain a moment ago...

[Inziladun]

I only have another couple of hours before I'm going to have to vote and sign off for the Day. Not good, when so many haven't been around.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Actually, I'd have thought it very likely... and you were so certain a moment ago...

Ah. There's Eeevill afoot.

[Eönwë]

Ok, commenting as I read through.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Yes I'm puzzled too. Maybe a kamikaze wolf who wants to go into the Dead Thread to cause trouble? Or maybe just a playful Ordo and the reason he gave is genuine?

This is actually a pretty interesting idea. Since the EW has one 'disposable' wolf, it could be useful for evil side to have someone in the other thread, especially early on (the risk of which is actually what converted me into an anti-lyncher and prompted me to come up with the Dead Thread plan).

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I thought the Wizard passed along the kills, but the wolves could make their own decision. Though whether the Wizard can (or would) override them I don't know.

I mean, it might not be a nice thing to do, but since the EW is the one that makes the pick (i.e., sends it to Kuru), I interpreted the rules as pretty clearly implying that the EW is the one that ultimately makes the pick, with the wolves acting more as advisers/helpers (which also makes sense thematically).

edit:x-ed since Lottie's #171

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Ah. There's Eeevill afoot.

Let me be clear, Zil- yes, I'm indeed saying that looks a possible slip to me. In a more conventional game I'd be a lot surer, but I know I've been guilty of making assumptions myself this time around. Still...

Edit: x'd with Eonwe.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Let me be clear, Zil- yes, I'm indeed saying that looks a possible slip to me. In a more conventional game I'd be a lot surer, but I know I've been guilty of making assumptions myself this time around. Still...

Fair enough, since I'm leaning toward voting you again, barring some sudden revelation.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Fair enough, since I'm leaning toward voting you again, barring some sudden revelation.

Why, though?

[Nerwen]

I do wish more of the village would show up.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Fair enough, since I'm leaning toward voting you again, barring some sudden revelation.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Why, though?

I would also like to hear your reasons for voting Nerwen, both toDay and yesterDay, if you have the time. I thought your vote yesterDay came from not a lot of build up, and I don't know that I see where your suspicion comes from, even though it has been very consistent. I don't know that I buy that your slip is necessarily proof of evil, but your comments about the Dead Thread earlier did seem to be aimed more at distraction and prolonging the conversation than actual clarification. I could see a [wolf trying to keep the discussion on Dead Thread mechanics in order to prevent us from looking for wolves.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If by creating a wolf N2, the EW then gets to make a kill on N2, I'd definitely wait until N2 until creating a wolf. If I were the EW, just to get the joy of seeing a completely fruitless D1 lynch, because there would be no wolf to lynch.

And this is exactly the question I was asking (and Kuru hasn't answered yet)!

Absolutely secure innocent-lynch (unless lynched herself) on D1 and still a possibility to kill someone on N2 when recruiting her first wolf only on the very same N2 would be a no-brainer for the EW.

Kuru's answer was not to this question. He answered to a question (which I at least didn't intend to ask), whether the EW could Nightkill the same wolf she turns into a wolf the same Night. It is a totally different question and not one that would help us determining whether there was a wolf around on D1 - aka. whether reading yesterday's voting fex. is totally worth zero or worth at least a try.


Another quick point - just as a remainder - the Dead might not see as the most beneficial course of action to be the "messenger boys and girls" who make insecure attempts at telling the living who someone (of lesser consequence by game terms) was or is if they can for example lynch a baddie with their vote - or point to a known villain with it.

The Dead know who is important to know for the living - the Living only shoot in the dark - well not necessarily in the first Days but later the difference becomes remarkable - and at least later on the Living should not think they are the ones on the driving seat because they are the blind ones while the Dead are not.

*Goes back to read more*

[Boromir88]

*Boro grabs an apple out of his pack. Sits down. Watches this interesting back-and-forth between Inzil and Nerwen*

*Ponders...was it a slip? An innocent assumption? On first appearance, Inzil looks like he's trying to back away from it and pass it off as an innocent joke.*

"Appearances are deceiving though" Boro whispers to another participant and offering a bit of the apple.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The Dead know who is important to know for the living - the Living only shoot in the dark - well not necessarily in the first Days but later the difference becomes remarkable - and at least later on the Living should not think they are the ones on the driving seat because they are the blind ones while the Dead are not.

The communication plans are absolutely less useful in late game. For one thing, the groups become smaller and smaller for each option, giving the Dead less flexibility and power. For another, the Visitors will have started to come into play, giving us more information than can be communicated via the empowerment vote. Probably around Day 5 we would have to drop the plan to some extent, or make serious alterations. That's fine, though. It doesn't have to work for the whole game. This kind of plan is extremely useful in the early game, and having it in place early on can help us get our footing. One vote is not likely to change the lynch when we still have 10+ people voting, and the Dead are not likely to be online en masse close enough to DL to tailor their vote to how the livings' votes are going anyway. Pretty much all the empowerment vote can be used for the first few times is communication.

EDIT: xed with Boro

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

In theory, maybe the EW didn't create a wolf N1. So, D1 there was no wolf and the EW was just trying to get a lynch/small chance to expose the GW/gifted. What would be the advantage to create a wolf N1, other than create a small chance of possibly losing the wolf in a lucky D1 lynch? If by creating a wolf N2, the EW then gets to make a kill on N2, I'd definitely wait until N2 until creating a wolf. If I were the EW, just to get the joy of seeing a completely fruitless D1 lynch, because there would be no wolf to lynch.

Following on from my last post, this actually seems like what a suicidal wolf would say to try to throw us off the scent. Since there is one spare/disposable wolf, getting one into the Dead Thread on Day 1 could definitely derail it for a while, as I mentioned in this post (quoting it here for ease and because I can't be bothered to write it out again):

Originally Posted by Eönwë

If we lynch someone now, we have the following situation:
N1: 0 in DT
D1: 0 in DT
N2: 1 in DT
D2: 2 in DT (1/2 known roles) - can vote to strengthen a vote
N3: 3 in DT (1/3 known roles) - can vote to find out a role
D3: 4 in DT (3/4 known roles) - can vote to strengthen a vote
N4: 5 in DT (3/5 known roles) - can vote to find out a role
... etc.

This means that at each Night, there are 2 unknowns. Of course, if we now agree to a certain rule (e.g. always vote for the unknown that's spent the longest time in the DT), then it could be easier, but there's always the chance of a wasted Night vote early on with 2 unknown wolves overpowering the general vote, and there's also a risk of wolves messing stuff up in moments where people would be tempted to break this rule, e.g. when a Visitor is there.

If we didn't lynch someone today, we'd have:
N1: 0 in DT
D1: 0 in DT
N2: 0 in DT
D2: 1 in DT
N3: 2 in DT (1/2 known roles) - can vote to find out a role
D3: 3 in DT (3/3 known roles) - can vote to strengthen a vote
N4: 4 in DT (3/4 known roles) - can vote to find out a role
... etc.

Of course, this is super hypothetical and I can imagine a few situations where it would break down (e.g. Ranger save, Wizards' duel, etc.), but just thought I'd put it out there.

Of course, in this case, it would be beneficial to get a wolf into the Dead Thread immediately, as their strength in that thread would wane as soon as it gets populated by innocents following any kind of protocol (this actually brings to mind a super-crazy strategy, but I think I'll save that for another post).

So given that the EW does have a disposable wolf (that could actually be useful to them lynched on D1), I can't see why they wouldn't pick one on N1 for that reason alone. I believe we still haven't found out from Kuru whether or not the EW can make their first wolf and pick a kill on the same Night, but even they can, there is a greater risk on N2 of the EW picking an unwolfable person (the GW and their pickee) and therefore not being able to make a kill - on N1, there is a 2/16 = 1/8 chance of hitting an unwolfable, while by N2 this could potentially be raised to 3/15 = 1/5.

edit: x-ed since my last post.

[Thinlómien]

First off, I'm a bit puzzled by the choice of Morsul. It does lead tracks to Lottie, but that seems like a hasty conclusion - especially in a game with no seer. I'm sorry but my first idea of "why Morsul" is because in the last dead thread game he was (at least from my pov) majorly confusing the communication between the living and the dead, so maybe the baddies are wishing for a reprise. Or maybe they just wanted an entertaining start to the dead thread.

Also the vote yesterDay was a bit of a fiasco. I'm looking at Boro especially, who has continued being very shady toDay. Would it make any sense for the EW to act cobblerish and try to make people not take him seriously????

Now, off to do a classic read-and-comment post!


edit: xed with Eoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeo

[Nogrod]

*Surfacing back before reading all of toDay just to bring forth an idea*

How about this?

We the Living consider the votes of the Dead as a kind of advice of an older sibling or parent - they know more but are not infallible. And we should probably do this in an increasing scale of trust that there is a point in who they want to help lynch.

Like toDay (with no-one lynched on D1) there will only be Morsul voting there and he doesn't know anything more than we do - so we'll consider his vote as his suggestion, with the already statistical probability that he is more likely an innocent one, who could be as far off as anyone of us could be.

I'd say D3 is the most problematic and we should take anything coming from there with a pinch of salt - but yet most probably it would be an assessment of some fellow-villagers.

After that the dead should have settled their game with five or more people in and the goodies should have the upper hand (even if that is in no way a safe bet) - and the more Days go by, the clearer view they will have of the situation and the more we should listen to them in regards to whom they try to get lynched with their vote.

This kind of attitude wouldn't lessen the fun of people playing in the Dead thread neither lessen the need of the Living to consider thoroughly what to do with the suggestions the Dead are making.

And really: if the EW decides then to try and crowd the Dead thread, she'll soon fall short of baddies to use (she's only allowed 4 in total and only 3 at a time) and then quite inevitably lose by numbers here in the Living thread as well...

EDIT: Managed to X with at least Lommmy & Eönwe

[Nogrod]

Okay, decided to clarify my point in another short post as I truly realized the point with all (most?) of it's ramifications myself just thinking about it again.

The problem in the Dead thread is that they only know approximately half of the people. With two people entering there (on average) per one D/N -cycle and them being able to check only one in the same time-frame, there's going to be some confusion at least in the beginning (they'll know only half for sure). But like I said, the good side should eventually come to grips with that.

Thus we shouldn't take anything they say as a fact or a strict rule (X is innocent, Y is a wolf) even if we had very smart systems to make that kind of questions to them. But we should increasingly trust their evaluation of the situation as a more informed fellow-villager's (party-guest's) advice.

And like I said, the EW wouldn't want to throw all her gang into the Dead thread as then it would be a game over immediately when the Duel takes place. She needs numbers in the Living thread to make the game continue...


*Ok. back now*


PS. Has anyone or is anyone going to make a look at the voting yesterDay? With the assumption that here was a wolf there already on D1 (most probable I'd say) and how fishy the voting looked there just could be a chance there was some foul play involved - at least chance enough to merit a check. I'll look at it soon - unless someone is doing it already right now.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Why, though?

Originally Posted by Loslote

I would also like to hear your reasons for voting Nerwen, both toDay and yesterDay, if you have the time. I thought your vote yesterDay came from not a lot of build up, and I don't know that I see where your suspicion comes from, even though it has been very consistent. I don't know that I buy that your slip is necessarily proof of evil, but your comments about the Dead Thread earlier did seem to be aimed more at distraction and prolonging the conversation than actual clarification. I could see a [wolf trying to keep the discussion on Dead Thread mechanics in order to prevent us from looking for wolves.

Yesterday's vote I (very) briefly explained here

ToDay, I face a similar situation in that I'm going to have to vote fairly soon. I thought her jumping in my 'slip' had a pouncing feel to it. And like I said, a lot of people haven't been around much, if at all.

As for my 'prolonging the conversation' about the Dead Thread, it took two (or more) to tango. If it was thought I was trying to waste time or distract, people could have ignored me.

x/d with Nog

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Like toDay (with no-one lynched on D1) there will only be Morsul voting there and he doesn't know anything more than we do - so we'll consider his vote as his suggestion, with the already statistical probability that he is more likely an innocent one, who could be as far off as anyone of us could be.

Morsul doesn't get to vote toDay.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

After there are TWO residents of the Dead Thread, every DAY the dead get to vote on giving one of the living an extra vote.

edit: x-ed with Zil

[Inziladun]

So:

++Nerwen

[Loslote]

I am feeling better about Nog after his more recent posts, and worse about Zil, who has seemed more defensive than I would have expected. His suspicion of Nerwen also feels strange - it's too insistent for the justification of "she feels off and would be good in the Dead Thread if guilty", which I think is all he has thus far offered. That, plus he didn't like how she jumped on a possible slip, which I thought seemed like an innocent spotting what really did look like a possible slip. I wouldn't mind voting for Zil toDay.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Based on that, it seems like the wolf isn't actually a wolf until dawn breaks. I think. Could we get a rule clarification, Kuru?

Sure.

And the answer is more or less.

While "everything" is assumed to have happened during a NIGHT phase, this does also implicitly create an order in which things occur. For example, Ranger Pick effectively has to come first in order for the skill to be used at all, then Evil actions, and so on and so forth.

And I'm afraid that is as much of an answer as I can give to Nog's question too.

The answer to that question is baked into the geography of the game.

I know it may be frustrating and seem like I don't understand the question, but I could not possibly answer that particular question. It is part of the game. The most definitive statement I can make is that the game is still going on right now. The Party has not won. Everyone can make of that what they will.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I was intending to break a tie. But I'll take the rest to the grave with me.

This sounds so awfully fishy that you must be aware that it does. What Lommy just said about the Cobbler-acting. I am not really sure what you are playing at here, but either you adopted some really awkward style or there is something else you are running here.

I mean this goes exactly into the book "a Wolf or EW would not act so boldly, except if they wanted us to think just that". Maybe a straight question, then - do you still want to be lynched or not?

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, they don't have to empower anyone, do they?

The Dead don't have to empower anyone, but if there is at least one Wolf there, they could simply vote regardless of what other people want and cause a mess. I remember in the last game dead Mac was trolling as if there were no tomorrow, and mostly only by sheer numbers did he not succeed.

Zil - according to what you linked, yesterDay you said you voted Nerwen because she felt more "guarded" than usual, is that still valid? Because now you said that you are voting her based on her jump on you, but these are two different things. Just seems to me like purposefully going after one suspect (which a Wolf could do to seem "consistent").

Also, all this talk about Dead thread is all fine and dandy, but I would too prefer to vote early-ish toDay and I think we can still specify any exact rules for communicating with the Dead thread toMorrow, when it will (presumably) finally be relevant.

(Although then again, as early as possible. Because we don't want to end up with leaving the Dead with no directions until two minutes before DL. At least there won't be a host of them yet, so they will probably be able to react more flexibly.)

EDIT: x-ed since Zil's vote

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Sure.
And I'm afraid that is as much of an answer as I can give to Nog's question too.

The answer to that question is baked into the geography of the game.

I know it may be frustrating and seem like I don't understand the question, but I could not possibly answer that particular question. It is part of the game. The most definitive statement I can make is that the game is still going on right now. The Party has not won. Everyone can make of that what they will.

Okay.

That makes one think indeed...

When there is not a clear-cut answer, something is tricksy.

Without any major light bulbs immediately flashing over my head I'll pull back to reading how D1 went, but this sure is interesting indeed. We need to thinks about this as well.