WW LXXVII: The Metamorphs of Wolf-562-e

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But since Eomer's role is now revealed as 'Bounty Hunter', maybe he got a Hunter kill and took sally with him? That's the only other other explanation for her death I can think of, apart from her being killed by the other secret role. Doesn't fit the narration, however, where it seems she was killed by an unidentified figure after Eomer's own death... so probably not.

Your deceased Captain wishes you to know that her narrations, apart from being outstanding gems of the literary art, are also highly informative.

In other words, if Morphisaloser2005 and Eomer of the Bounty Hunters had killed one another in the standard way, I'd have said so.

[Pitchwife]

Finally, a look at Eomer's death.
Here's his list in #47 (neglecting the obviously joking references to those who hadn't shown up yet; known morphs bolded, known innocents underlined):

Originally Posted by BountyHunter of the Rohirrim

Inziladun – very suspicious, though makes more points than most. Keep for now.

Paranoia –very suspicious. Didn't like my baseless accusation of Blind Guardian but was happy enough shouting at Rikae.

Sally – suspicious. I would probably lynch her.

Pitchwife – suspicious, but makes some fair points. Keep alive now, lynch later.

Blind Guardian – offers nothing so far. Probably has an evil secret and is scared of letting it slip. Lynch her.

Loslote – keep alive. She seems decent enough so far.

[...]

Wilwa - I like Wilwa. She can stay.

[...]

Rikae- benefit of the doubt so far but she's pretty suspicious as usual.

So his top suspects were (in order of ranking):
- Zil ('very' suspicious')
- Noia ('very suspicious')
- sally ('suspicious')
- Pitch ('suspicious')
[- BG, known innocent]
followed with a long distance by
- Rikae ('pretty suspicious as usual')
.
He was not suspicious of:
- Lottie ('seems decent enough')
- wilwa ('I like her, she can stay').

We know he was right about sally, and if there was another morph among his top suspects, I can see the morphs panicking and deciding to get rid of him ASAP. They may also have thought him a possible Agent - not the Telepath, obviously, but either Assassin or Defender.

On the other hand, it would have made sense for either a Lottiemorph or a wilworph to kill him, as it would leave no trail no them and possibly frame one of his top suspects in the process; in this case, I'm inclined to think wilwa, there's more other points against her.

On the third hand, it could have been both these reasons, depending on the composition of the morph pack. That's what I see as most likely.

EDIT: x-ed with wilwa and the Captain (thanks for the clarification).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So Eomer had a secret role? That sort of fits... Somehow he felt rather non-ordoish to me yesterDay; I even wondered whether his early unrelenting demand to have BG 'strung up' could be an exceptionally blatant Seer-hint and was worried whether I was putting too much pressure on him to explain himself.

I started thinking that too: that Eomer had been hinting he was the Telepath and was telling us he had his first wolf. It seemed less likely after he laughed it off saying he just wanted to get people talking, but that came back to my mind when BG started unraveling at the end of Day 1.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

About that Seer-wagon: having read the last game, I see how her behaviour could have been seen as repeating her wolvish preincarnation, and honestly I'm not sure how I would have reacted to it myself if I'd been around to vote, but I find it noteworthy how everybody (that is, Izzy, Shasta, Noia and Zil) jumped on her blunder like wolves on a tasty bit of lynch-meat, without even considering the possibility that she'd just made a noobish mistake.

I can't speak for eveyone else, but I considered it. My other candidate was Sally for her self-vote, and I put off voting as long as I could trying to make up my mind. In the end, it was mainly BG's reactions to her mistake ("Oh crud", for example) that looked so much like the WolfG I remembered and the fact that I didn't think there was any way Sally could get lynched at that point, that got me to vote BG.

[Isabellkya]

As lovely as your 'theory' sounds, Pitch. It looks more like you being a wolf jumping at a tasty bit of meat.

You listed it yourself. BG listed Loslote as 'relatively innocent' in #69. Three posts later, she voted for Loslote. I don't see that as a possible 'noobish' mistake; more akin to noobish wolf yes. In a span of three posts, you somehow forget who you think is innocent, and who is suspicious? Her explanation for how Loslote ended up in that category.. was rather lackluster - not that it entirely mattered at that point.

It seems like you don't fully comprehend my reasons for voting for BG and the implications. If someone makes a mistake like she did - it implies her list of suspicions was fabricated. She did copy it from Loslote. Who would need a fabricated list? Innocent's don't. But metamorphs do.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

As lovely as your 'theory' sounds, Pitch. It looks more like you being a wolf jumping at a tasty bit of meat.

You listed it yourself. BG listed Loslote as 'relatively innocent' in #69. Three posts later, she voted for Loslote. I don't see that as a possible 'noobish' mistake; more akin to noobish wolf yes. In a span of three posts, you somehow forget who you think is innocent, and who is suspicious? Her explanation for how Loslote ended up in that category.. was rather lackluster - not that it entirely mattered at that point.

It seems like you don't fully comprehend my reasons for voting for BG and the implications. If someone makes a mistake like she did - it implies her list of suspicions was fabricated. She did copy it from Loslote. Who would need a fabricated list? Innocent's don't. But metamorphs do.

No, I fully understand your reason, and agree what BG did there would have looked rather wolvish to me as well at the time. But voting her right away without giving her a chance to explain herself?

And I'm not saying that we should concentrate on the BG voters exclusively and ignore everybody else. Like Rikae said, innocents can make bad votes too. But I wouldn't bet that there was no morph at all in that wagon. And given that votes are the best evidence we get in WW, along with the Night-kills, pretending it never happened or blaming it all on BG herself is going to accomplish zip.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I started thinking that too: that Eomer had been hinting he was the Telepath and was telling us he had his first wolf. It seemed less likely after he laughed it off saying he just wanted to get people talking, but that came back to my mind when BG started unraveling at the end of Day


I can't speak for eveyone else, but I considered it. My other candidate was Sally for her self-vote, and I put off voting as long as I could trying to make up my mind. In the end, it was mainly BG's reactions to her mistake ("Oh crud", for example) that looked so much like the WolfG I remembered and the fact that I didn't think there was any way Sally could get lynched at that point, that got me to vote BG.

I remember you also had 'reservations' about Eomer in your #68, but if you thought he might be the Telepath that explains why you didn't pursue them further.
And I've noted the timing of your vote. I think wolves would be more likely to hide in the middle of a bandwagon than give an innocent the first or last vote (unless it's a bold Nerwolf), so that would speak in favour of you and Izzy and rather against Shasta and Noia.

[Rikae]

Ok, ok. So Sally was evil after all. Ha, I thought so! Now - Shasta and Izzy, no, I wasn't watching the last game, but suspecting someone for being similar to the wolf they were in their first game in their second game doesn't seem quite right, does it? How would you distinguish between Evil-BG and BG in general? Even a fabricated list, as Izzy puts it, doesn't seem that suspicious in day one, nor would a vote based on a quickly formed and thin suspicion. Zil's explanation seems fairly plausible, Shasta and Noia I'm unsure about, but Izzy's defensiveness, and the hastiness of her vote yesterDay, really sets off alarms. On the other hand, Wilwa's distancing of herself from that wagon seemed overly enthusiastic/too good to be true, especially since she voted for a (fellow?) morph. The way she underscores it toDay, and her seeming frustration, could easily be morphish, too - frustration that her plan backfired.
Lottie and Pitch are looking fairly sensible for the time being. Wintywinty's theory about Eomer doesn't really make sense: the morphs knew the seer was dead, and even if Eomer happened to make a few lucky guesses, they would have known those were guesses only and probably avoided leaving an obvious trail by killing him.

Edit: X'd with Pitch.

[Pitchwife]

Thoughts about Noia

#30 Tells Eomer to stop unreasoned accusations (after Zil and I had already challenged Eomer on them, therefore an obvious and easy thing to say). Said Rikae was metamorph scum. (I first read the *eyetwitch* there as a , indicating joking, but looking back it was rather his IC face tick - so no joking at all? Unreasoned accusation by himself, in the same post?)

#99 Responds to Eomer's 'omgus' (what kind of newfangled fleet jargon is that?), explains his RL time issues, agrees with Eomer about sally. Votes BG for her Lottie vote, which didn't match the list, and suspecting Eomer after laughing him off as crazy earlier.

#105 Further comments on BG: not satisfied by wilwa's explanation; Lottie 'pressuring people to vote' un-morphish because we have to avoid modkill. Fair point.

All in all, he's a hard one. Hands-on approach and some good points, but telling Eomer not to make unreasoned accusations while doing it himself? His vote on BG looks the most well-reasoned of the four, but I gather he's an experienced player, if new to the Fleet, and therefore perfectly capable of making a good-looking case against an innocent if he's a morph. Also, his #99 looks to me like he was just waiting for BG to screw up and grateful to take the chance when he got it. Makes me very wary of him.

[Nerwen]

Someone had to die this way

Quartermaster Keeper of Dol Guldur, or Mira as she was known to her friends, sat at the helm console with her head in her hands.

Since the death of the false Lieutenant Sally, all the work of navigation as well as piloting the ship had devolved upon her, and she was starting to feel the pressure. Not only that, but she had been friends with the navigator, so that the Night's discovery had shaken her to the core.

"I just can't take it any more!" she moaned. "I'm getting slammed by work... there's no-one I can trust anymore... it's all too much!" Mira whimpered and beat her head on the instrument panel, at first softly, then harder and harder, chanting, "Too much, too much, too much, too much..." The console exploded in a shower of sparks and flames. Mira was thrown back with terrific force, but it was not until they had put out the fires that swept the bridge that her shipmates were able to come to her aid.

By then, if there had ever been a chance to save her, it was much too late.

All they could do for Quartermaster Mira-Keeper was seal her into a pod, speak a few well-chosen words in her honour, and commit her body to space via the same airlock through which Blind Guardian and Eomer had recently departed.

Back on the bridge, Commander Inziladun surveyed the extensive damage. "Hmm. About how long do you think it will take to get everything running again, Loslote?"

The Chief Engineer launched into a flood of technical gibberish.

"In Terran?"

"Uh– well– that is to say... I don't know, sir."

Inziladun sighed. "I guessed as much. Moving onwards– who else knows how to steer the ship?"

Dead
Doctor Morsul –Medical Officer and Captain McNerwen. –shot by Traitor on Night One.
Ensign Blind Guardian– Tactical Officer. –Died in convulsions (Telepath).
Eomer –Security Officer. –Thrown out the airlock (Bounty Hunter).
Lieutenant Sally –Navigator. –Torn to pieces (Metamorph).
Chief Petty Officer Keeper of Dol Guldur –Quartermaster. –Killed by exploding console (Ordinary).

[wilwarin538]

OK, about the narration.

So, what seems for sure is: the Morphs killed Eomer (who was hunting the Assassin, but it was unsuccessful). The Assassin was hunting the Defender and somehow found out the Defender's identity because of it, but the Defender doesn't know who the Assassin is. Something else killed Sally. Wow, that's confusing.

I just refreshed the page. Ok, so now Mira's dead. This is crazy. According to the narration it wasn't even like someone showed up and killed her, she just died by freak accident. Going to assume it's the other secret role, or this is Eomer's kill maybe?

[Pitchwife]

Thoughts on Shasta:

#57 Some IC; doesn't buy Lottie's suspicion of wilwa, and says the post of wilwa's that Lottie called 'forced' wasn't so; suspects sally for her Nilp-vote; also suspects either Eomer or me, but isn't sure which (really?).

#64 Doesn't see why Eomer's suspicion of BG is suspicious (it wasn't in my eyes, only his lack of reasoning was), and isn't comfortable with BG himself; thinks he suspects me, but doesn't know why (really really?); says he's not the Telepath (we know that by now).

#78, #83, #86, #93, #98, #107 were all about BG and are already digested in my own #158.
(Bah, I keep forgetting that his vote x-ed with Izzy's, so scrap what I've said in #166 about him in terms of hiding in the middle of the bandwagon. Noia looks worse in that respect.)

#116 wonders about the Night-kills.

#117 wonders if we have a spaceborne Werebear.

#122 expresses his determination to fight Rikae for the post-count (not that she's going to win it anytime soon at the current rate!)

#124 reply to Rikae defending the BG votes based on BG's behaviour last game.

#127 still wondering about Night-kills, roles and a possible Werebear.

#132 comes to agree with Lottie's suspicion of wilwa:

Wilwa was also the first to point out that we wouldn't have to deal with false reveals (IIRC). She mentioned that it was "fantastic". Now, I've accused Lottie of this multiple times - reads on someone shouldn't depend on one word (and I happen to know that Vanessa's a very ebullient personality <3) but taken together the first thing I thought upon rereading was "she seemed awfully eager to point that out - wolf looking for citizen points?

Now sorry if I'm confusing something, but isn't that the same post of wilwa's which you earlier said 'wasn't forced'?

#133 reply to Lottie about wilwa suspicion, 'omgus', and rhetorical questions.

#138 reiterates that he voted BG for faulty reasoning in her vote, so his wasn't 'omgus'.

He's hard to pin down either way for me. Suspecting one of two people but not knowing which one and for what? His response to Lottie explaining his conversion to the wilwa suspicion sounds genuine in a way (and I happen to quite agree with said suspicion), but it's still a rather sudden change of mind at a time where he was being suspected by Lottie himself. I generally find it difficult to read him, so a third opinion would be appreciated.

(Speaking of wilwa: If you want me to believe in your innocence, don't just protest it - do something productive.)

(x-ed with the Captain and wilwa.)

[Pitchwife]

Oh Captain my Captain, am I right in assuming Keeper Mira was modfired? ("getting slammed by work", and it was an accident, with no killer involved)

[Pitchwife]

Thoughts about Lottie

I honestly intended to do a post-by-post analysis of our current Queen of the Post Count, but it would probably take me all evening, and I don't quite feel up to it at the moment. What worried me most about her (actually the only thing that worried me) is her involvement in the near-DL discussion about/with BG - it could be seen as increasing the pressure on BG and feeding the wagon without actually voting her (as she'd already voted me), or it could be seen as an innocent honestly questioning BG and trying to make up her mind. Taking in account my general impression of her and her performance toDay, I tend to think the latter. So I'm still more inclined to trust her (and I also happen to agree with her about her top suspects).


Thoughts about wintywinty
#145 Is playing at last.

#146 extensive quote of Fleet Regulations (thank you, I think we've all read that!).

#150 question about the Agents.

#155 tries to make sense of the Night-kill based on Eomer's suspicions (the first to try that, bonus points for that). Suspects me, Zil, and Noia based on Eomer's suspicion list and my own list at #49. Nothing wrong with that, except that an experienced wolf wouldn't have left that clear a trail (as Rikae said above).

Conclusion: Nothing morphish in him so far.

Thoughts on Zil:

He's been very laid back in general, almost keeping aloof, mostly rather reactions to others than taking initiative, but those reactions being balanced and reasonable - which is all very typically Zillish. Only points against him the possibly incriminating Night-kill and final vote for BG, but I liked his response to me about that. I also think a Zilmorph would tend to be a tad more aggressive, so I'm still leaning to trust him.

Thoughts on Rikae
#27 banter about fake reveals and secret roles, joking suspicions of sally and Eomer; not-so-joking suspicion of wilwa, serious point about Hunter reveals (although I've disputed it). Warning against jumping on her, or anybody, for flimsy reasons, which was a fair point at the time.

#120 agreed with Lottie on wilwa, found sally's Nilping 'fishy'; I concur.

#121 Post-Count Wars (try harder, my dear!).

#123 Berates the BG-voters while admitting it's easy for her as a non-voter to talk. I agree with her on both points, and include myself in the latter, of course.

#167 Further comments on the BG-wagon and wilwa's ostentative non-involvement in it (which had raised a number of eyebrows before). Took the words right out of my mouth.

Conclusion: nothing morphish so far. (Next thing I know she'll probably suspect me for agreeing with her too much. If so, be my guest.)

Thoughts about Izzy:

#52 IC banter, fake reveals entertaining, and a good point:

Thinking someone couldn't be a metamorph because 'a metamorph would never do something that suspicious, or that x' .. doesn't necessarily work. Because a metamorph is obviously capable of anything.. add to that the specific player..

Indeed.

#58 thinks sally should at least have had some kind of suspicion on some people, if not most. So she should.

#59 Question about DL.

#72, #74, #82, #92, were all about BG and digested in my #158.

#164 responds to my examination of the BG voters in a way that was very very defensive indeed, maybe bordering on omgus (if I'm getting the semantics of that term correctly). I'm not satisfied.

Conclusion: little participation for most of Day 1, some fair but obvious points, a hasty vote, and no satisfying response toDay. (Has she even acknowledged that BG was not a morph? A single 'Gah, I screwed up there' would have convinced me much more than the defense she's offered.) Tending rather morphish, but not my biggest concern toDay (I'm more worried about Noia, if anybody hasn't noticed).

And that's about everybody who's still alive, right?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitch

And I've noted the timing of your vote. I think wolves would be more likely to hide in the middle of a bandwagon than give an innocent the first or last vote (unless it's a bold Nerwolf), so that would speak in favour of you and Izzy and rather against Shasta and Noia.

Except that my vote X'ed with Izzy's. What I find interesting about this quote is that you yourself already noted this, Pitch, so it seems to me you're being very wishy-washy here. Much like a Morph trying to drum up another lynch candidate. I'd say if Wilwa is lynched and turns out to be a Morph, Pitch is a pretty good candidate for Morphism as well.

Originally Posted by Rikae

How would you distinguish between Evil-BG and BG in general?

That's true, Rikae, but I will say that the Beige Wolf confessed soon after things turned against her in the last game, and her "Oh crud, I did" actually did look like a confession to me (true, that was after my vote for her, but I still stand by the fact that there were more reasons to vote BG than there were anyone else at that point).

Originally Posted by Pitch

(Bah, I keep forgetting that his vote x-ed with Izzy's, so scrap what I've said in #166 about him in terms of hiding in the middle of the bandwagon. Noia looks worse in that respect.)

And now that I've read this, you can scrap the first part of this post.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Now sorry if I'm confusing something, but isn't that the same post of wilwa's which you earlier said 'wasn't forced'?

You are, and it's not. Let me finish this post and I'll go get it for you.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here it is:

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Ha ha.



But, but that's what makes Day 1s oh so much fun.

Uh, I have to go to work now. I'm not going to be back for like 9 hours. Sorry. But I will definitely be voting!

And it still doesn't look forced to me.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On Commander Inziladun -

#19 - Mostly banter. Does mention Eomer's suspicion of BG in a slightly negative context. Also mentions that the inability of the gifted to reveal themselves is a bad thing.

#35 - Some banter. Agrees with Pitch about pros and cons of Hunters revealing, but tries to turn the discussion away from the subject of reveals ("the question is academic"). Points out something that Noia said about knowing BG's true nature. This bothers me, but I don't know if it's Morph-ish or Traitor-ish. I'd be inclined to think the latter, honestly - the Traitor is more likely to draw attention to himself, I think, than a Morph would be. Also mentions that I should repair the water pipes. Don't tell me how to do my job! *sulk*

#60 - Jumps on Sally for her unhelpful self-vote, which I agree with wholeheartedly. Also tries to foment suspicion on Eomer, seemingly, by pointing out that he put Rikae in the same category as Noia, whom he voted for. Thinks that Eomer looks worse than Pitch for his stance on BG, but here's a gem from this post that I find to be interesting -

Originally Posted by Inzil to Pitch

Well spotted, Ensign. Keep up the good work and don't be a Metamorph and there may be lieutenant's bars in the cards for you.

After this, given that I'm a little suspicious of Pitch, makes me wonder if Inzil isn't the traitor after all. Hmm.

#61 - Confirms deadline.

#68 - Reiterates that he has "reservations" about Eomer, but [i]praises[/b] Lottie... for her Pitch vote. Says it's because the votes prior to Lottie's for Pitch were unhighlighted and thus invalid, but the way he said it makes me uneasy.

#77 - Attacks BG's reasoning on her vote for Lottie. I can't really fault him here.

#104 - Votes BG. Again, can't really fault him.

#112 - Calls DL.

#128 - Doesn't know what Eomer was. Agrees with me about BG's seeming Morphishness from yesterday. Attacks Wilwa for not voting BG and instead voting Sally. He's actually got a fair point here, given that Sally turned out to be a Morph. One of the current wolf tactics is early wolf-on-wolf, it seems like.



Conclusions -

Inzil has a couple of points against him, and a couple more that rely on Pitch being a Morph (which I'm not uber-confident about, but I think it's more possible than not). I don't know if he's a Morph, though - I think if he is evil, he's the Traitor.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On Wilwa -

#21 - Banter. Mentions that she won't be participating much today. Here's that "fantastic" comment which struck me as slightly over-enthusiastic.

#25 - Replies to Nerwen's post about the secret roles, mentioning that they can reveal and "we'll have to be careful about anyone who comes out with made-up roles then." I honestly find this to be a little overly-innocent (holy crap, someone stop me, I'm sounding like Lottie!) Also mentions that a Metamorph could come out as the Seer, but doing that would be suicide as by now we know that the Telepath couldn't reveal (unless they caught a wolf), so I'm not sure where she was going with this.

#29 - This is the post that Lottie said was forced. It's not.

#63 - Mentions that she isn't sure when DL is, so she's not going to vote right now.

#87 - Comes back.

#96 - I'm going to quote this one.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Ok. So not too much to go on sadly. Sally's self vote is weird, but so sally-ish that it's not really all that suspicious. BG's vote is very weird, her explanation just now almost made sense to me until I went back to Lottie's list and saw that she had put herself under 'Is the most innocent person you have never laid eyes on' not under relatively innocent. Even though all the other headings are the same, so I suppose she could have put her there accidently. I suppose.

Gah.

I'll vote soon then I guess. Maybe for BG, cause it's still weird. Maybe for Sally. Maybe for someone else....

x'ed with peeps who said what I said, haha, I need to learn to refresh more often...

Now this is interesting. Here, Sally isn't suspicious and BG is. Moving on...

#100 -

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I get it. She copy and pasted this:

Is the most innocent person you have never laid eyes on:
Lottie!

Relatively Innocentish:
Zil
Eomer
BeiGe

And just put the Relatively Innocentish part right above Lottie's name. So I see what she means.

K, I won't vote for her then, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt here.

Now, I don't know who to vote for...

Okay, now we know BG was actually innocent, so in all actuality that's precisely what she did. However, I still don't get how she could have done it and not known.

#108 - Votes Sally "for lack of nothing better". Wait, what?? Didn't you just say that Sally's self-vote was "so Sally-ish that it's not really all that suspicious"? I don't like this vote at all.

#160 - Defends herself.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

No Sally wasn't really that suspicious, but she was moreso then anyone else from what I could see. If I had voted BG I would like a bandwagonner taking the safe way out. But I didn't, and now I look bad for happening to vote a wolf (uhm, hello? I voted the wolf, not the Seer).

But you specifically said that she "wasn't really that suspicious", so I'm not seeing why you decided to vote for her. And saying that since you voted a Morph instead of the Seer, you're innocent, doesn't work because neither BG nor Sally's roles were known at the time.

#170 - Reiterates what happened in the narration.



Conclusions -

Wilwa's not really smelling like roses at this point. The biggest thing against her is the Sally vote, I think.




Now to take a break, come back, and analyze Pitch. What fun.

[Pitchwife]

Quadruple posting? Come on, where is everybody?

OK, so we've got 2 Metamorphs left, +1 Traitor, + 1 secret role of hitherto undefined alignment (could be goodie, could be baddie, could be neutral, so little use worrying about them at the moment).

My candidates for being morphish (in order of suspiciousness): wilwa/ Noia, Shasta/Izzy.
I think it would make perfect sense for one of the morphs to stay ostensibly out of the BG wagon and the other to fuel it, more than both to participate in it. So if any of Noia, Shasta or Izzy turns out to be morphish, that would exonerate the other two (although one of them could still be the Traitor).

Given Shasta's conversion to the case against wilwa, it seems unlikely that they would be packmates together. It could of couse be wolf-on-wolf on Shasta's part, which would be quite daring as there's only two of 'em left; but it's the last wolf standing who wins the game, and I remember Zil and me did something of the like in Lottie's game- so not impossible. But any other combination seems more likely.

So that narrows it down to (in order of suspiciousness): wilwa/Noia, wilwa/Izzy, wilwa/Shasta.
On second thought (or third, or rather Nth), it just strikes me that wilwa may be the Traitor rather than a morph. Her safe vote for sally could have been a perfect way of avoiding to lynch either a morph or an innocent, couldn't it? If I'm right, her early point about the impossibilty of fake reveals in this game is positively hilarious.

(And wilwa, the point isn't that you voted a morph over the Seer, but that you voted a morph at a time when she had the chance of a snowflake in hell to be lynched. Get it?)

EDIT: x-ed with a bunch of Shastas.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Ok, so now Mira's dead. This is crazy. According to the narration it wasn't even like someone showed up and killed her, she just died by freak accident. Going to assume it's the other secret role, or this is Eomer's kill maybe?

Modfire would be my guess, for lack of other information.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Thoughts about Lottie

I honestly intended to do a post-by-post analysis of our current Queen of the Post Count, but it would probably take me all evening, and I don't quite feel up to it at the moment. What worried me most about her (actually the only thing that worried me) is her involvement in the near-DL discussion about/with BG - it could be seen as increasing the pressure on BG and feeding the wagon without actually voting her (as she'd already voted me), or it could be seen as an innocent honestly questioning BG and trying to make up her mind. Taking in account my general impression of her and her performance toDay, I tend to think the latter. So I'm still more inclined to trust her (and I also happen to agree with her about her top suspects).

Lottie seems fairly harmless to me.

Pitch looks decent though, too. Nice efforts at analysation.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Points out something that Noia said about knowing BG's true nature. This bothers me, but I don't know if it's Morph-ish or Traitor-ish. I'd be inclined to think the latter, honestly - the Traitor is more likely to draw attention to himself, I think, than a Morph would be. Also mentions that I should repair the water pipes. Don't tell me how to do my job! *sulk*

I don't really get what you mean there. It bothers you that I asked Para why he was so certain we'd know BG's role soon?

And you had to repair the water leak because our Chief Engineer Lottie well, might have made it worse.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

After this, given that I'm a little suspicious of Pitch, makes me wonder if Inzil isn't the traitor after all. Hmm.

Dark times for the Terran Fleet, when an Acting Captain can't offer a word of encouragement to one of the crew without it being scrutinised.
In other words, that was a throwaway remark. But if I were working with a Pitchmorph in any capacity I'd certainly do my best to praise him where all could hear.

x/d with Shasta and Pitch

[Isabellkya]

There isn't ever a guarantee that someone will explain one of their actions before the DL. I needed to vote, and she did a scummy slip up. So I didn't particularly see a need to wait for her to explain. Had I waited, her explanation that she gave still would've had me voting for her.

Oh I agree. I'm sure there was at least one morph on the BG train.
I never suggested ignoring it, or blaming it on BG. The way you posted about it - came off as very opportunistic. 'I'm not sure how I would've responded... BUT everyone who did vote for her "jumped on her blunder like wolves on a tasty bit of lynch-meat, without even considering the possibility that she'd just made a noobish mistake."'.

How can you honestly say that no one considered alternate possibilities? I was under the impression that people were capable of thinking in their heads. I also don't think this is twitter - where we need to record every thought/action we ever do. xD

The only other possibility that I thought really - was that she could've been the seer; false saying Loslote was innocent, then voting her. To draw attention towards her vote.... since they can't reveal. However I ruled her out as too new to pull off something like that... especially with less than five posts in between.


Again. I did not vote BG because of previous game behavior. K. Thanks. I've seen this said more than once - that I voted for her because of last game. This is the second (going to be third) time I think I even said it - I did not vote her because of previous game behavior.

If there is a WereBear thing out there... then you can't entirely rule people out because together as morphs they don't make sense. But.. bear/wolf.. different teams.


X'd with Dun.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inzil

I don't really get what you mean there. It bothers you that I asked Para why he was so certain we'd know BG's role soon?

Yes. At that point, the only reason I could see for Noia to say that would be a Seer-Noia hinting, and given that, it bothers me that you immediately drew attention to it, something an innocent shouldn't do.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Yes. At that point, the only reason I could see for Noia to say that would be a Seer-Noia hinting, and given that, it bothers me that you immediately drew attention to it, something an innocent shouldn't do.

Seeing that Eomer looked to me like the one dropping Seer hints, the thought that Para could have been doing so never crossed my mind.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Seeing that Eomer looked to me like the one dropping Seer hints, the thought that Para could have been doing so never crossed my mind.

And you drew attention to those, too.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Bah, do I want to even bother trying to catch up to Lottie's post count?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

And you drew attention to those, too.

True enough. But who could possibly have missed them?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Shasta

But you specifically said that she "wasn't really that suspicious", so I'm not seeing why you decided to vote for her. And saying that since you voted a Morph instead of the Seer, you're innocent, doesn't work because neither BG nor Sally's roles were known at the time.

Well I had been planning to vote for BG, cause her vote did look suspicious, but then she explained, I understood and had no back up and like 20 minutes to choose someone. Sally also had a weird vote, and I wouldn't have voted for her if I had had anyone else to vote for, but I was not going to jump on a bandwaggon that I didn't agree with. My point is that, yeah we didn't know the roles at the time, but I still had the best vote! And that's really frustrating, cause I think the BG voters should be looking way worse, since the girl was clearly just confused and her explanation made sense, but a bunch of people were jumping on her without really taking the time to try and understand what she was saying, it was a bad bandwaggon, and it sucks that me being a part of it may have actually made me look better than me voting a wolf!

K. I'm done for real this time. My Day 1 votes just always come back to bite me no matter what, and it's driving me nuts.



I hadn't thought of modfire for Mira's death, I guess that does make the most sense.

I'm going to go back and re-read the last page from Day 1, cause to me people who voted BG look bad and I want to see which of them looks worse. Then maybe I'll make a list.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shasta

Except that my vote X'ed with Izzy's. What I find interesting about this quote is that you yourself already noted this, Pitch, so it seems to me you're being very wishy-washy here.

Yes, I'd noted it, and forgotten about it afterwards, and realized my forgetting, and said that the part of the post of mine you quoted should be scrapped as far as it concerns you, and you aren't my top suspect anyway, so will you please be content?!?

That's true, Rikae, but I will say that the Beige Wolf confessed soon after things turned against her in the last game, and her "Oh crud, I did" actually did look like a confession to me (true, that was after my vote for her, but I still stand by the fact that there were more reasons to vote BG than there were anyone else at that point).

I see where you came from, and in so far as a non-voter has a right to judge the BG-voters, I'm satisfied with your explanation.

And now that I've read this, you can scrap the first part of this post.

And now I've read this, you can scrap the first part of mine here.

You are, and it's not. Let me finish this post and I'll go get it for you.

OK, I am, and it wasn't. Meaning it may not have been 'forced', but it still was something blatantly obvious to say. 'Day 1s suck'. Yeah, we all know that, so what???

Originally Posted by Shasta

After this, given that I'm a little suspicious of Pitch, makes me wonder if Inzil isn't the traitor after all. Hmm.

You know what, that's one minor detail about Zil that's been worrying me . That was his response to my pointing out Eomer's lack of highlighting in his vote, which I myself didn't think at all commendable - so I've wondered whether he was trying to rub me the right way here, and I've been debating with myself for a while whether to bring it up or not, only I thought that would have been blowing it up beyond proportions. Care to comment, Zil?

Shasta's wilwanalysis: I concur, especially with this:

Votes Sally "for lack of nothing better". Wait, what?? Didn't you just say that Sally's self-vote was "so Sally-ish that it's not really all that suspicious"? I don't like this vote at all.

and this:

But you specifically said that she "wasn't really that suspicious", so I'm not seeing why you decided to vote for her. And saying that since you voted a Morph instead of the Seer, you're innocent, doesn't work because neither BG nor Sally's roles were known at the time.

Conclusion from the above: Shasta, you're looking better and better to me in the light of your recent reactions. Suspect me all you want (although I'd still like to know what for), but if I end up dead, look at what I said and bring your psi powers back online, OK?

EDIT: x-ed from #179 onwards.
EDITEDIT: fixed quote formatting in quote of Shasta quoting Zil

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

You know what, that's one minor detail about Zil that's been worrying me . That was his response to my pointing out Eomer's lack of highlighting in his vote, which I myself didn't think at all commendable - so I've wondered whether he was trying to rub me the right way here, and I've been debating with myself for a while whether to bring it up or not, only I thought that would have been blowing it up beyond proportions. Care to comment, Zil?

Already did here:

Originally Posted by me

Dark times for the Terran Fleet, when an Acting Captain can't offer a word of encouragement to one of the crew without it being scrutinised.
In other words, that was a throwaway remark. But if I were working with a Pitchmorph in any capacity I'd certainly do my best to praise him where all could hear.

That was really it: just a throwaway IC line.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Conclusion from the above: Shasta, you're looking better and better to me in the light of your recent reactions. Suspect me all you want (although I'd still like to know what for), but if I end up dead, look at what I said and bring your psi powers back online, OK?

To 'rub you the right way' even more, I'll go further and say I agree that Shasta looks fairly innocent at the moment.

[wilwarin538]

Votes from yesterDay:

Lottie –> Pitchwife
Blind Guardian –> Lottie
Isabellkya –> Blind Guardian
Shasta –> Blind Guardian (2)
Paranoia -> Blind Guardian (3)
Inziladun -> Blind Guardian (4)
Wilwarin -> Sally

Okee. So even though Lottie didn't vote for BG I think she looks pretty bad, cause she really pushed that bandwaggon. Izzy started it, but I don't think she looks as bad for it because it was the first vote and the reason made sense to her. Kind of the same for Shasta, though I don't like the way they both continued to pounce on BG. I mean I know it all happened in like 20 minutes, and that's not a lot of time to consider things, but still, I was able to figure it out in less time. Paranoia came in and did his (right?) own analysis of the situation and then voted, but pretty much just followed what other's were saying, so he makes me uneasy too . Inzil popped in and bandwaggoned, which everyone seems ok with, but I don't like it, he had been suspicious of Eomer and yeah he said BG's vote was poor, but then he disappeared for the next 20 minutes, and just popped in to vote without trying to get in on the discussion going on then or trying to help everyone figure out what BG was trying to say. I really dislike that.

So basically everyone who voted yesterday looks bad to me. In order of how bad they look: Inzil, Lottie, Shasta, Para, Izzy.

So a list then? Mostly based off of Day 1. After I post this I'll take a closer look at today to see if anything changes my mind on anyone.

Inziladun – do not like. Vote was bad, and his convenient disappearing act for the last 20 minutes bugs me to no end.

Paranoia – don't like vote yesterDay, at all.

Pitchwife – uhm, no real opinion at the moment, will get back to him after reading through today.

Loslote – I really don't like the way she kept going after BG, even though she didn't vote for her I see her as being instrumental in the whole bandwaggoning process, and to me it just seemed like she was set on getting her lynched and wasn't really willing to try and understand what BG was explaining.

Isabellkya – first to vote for BG, but at that point she had a good reason too, since BG hadn't come on to explain her mistake by that point. Her continuing to go after her still urks me, but I think that was more her standing by her vote rather then trying to get other people to follow it.

Shasta – kind of similar to Izzy, but he seemed to latch on to something promising and really role with it more then she did.

That whole bandwaggon was because people didn't feel like taking a second and comparing the two lists, I did, and I very quickly understood what she had been saying, I'm sure other's would have as well. Shasta, Para and Inzil especially had the oppurtunity to really look into it, and none of them really seemed to want to (except maybe Para a bit since he did repost BG's list, but certainly Inzil didn't try)

wintywinty – no oppinion.

Rikae - fine with.

So at this point I'd be willing to vote for Inzil, Lottie or Shasta.

Now I'll look closer at today.

x'ed with Pitch and Inzil

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shasta

And you drew attention to those, too.

OK. When you see player 1 making apparently unsubstantiated accusations on player 2 on Day 1, there's more or less three possible explanations:
1. player 1 is a wolf (not bloody likely, as it's a very bold move, but who knows)
2. player 1 is just trying to 'stir the pot' (as we now know was the case with Eomer)
3. player 1 is the Seer and dropping hints about their dream.
So what are you going to do? Just ignore it all for fear of exposing the Seer, at a time when there was nothing else of any note happening? Or question player 1, hoping to get a better read on them?

Otherwise -

Originally Posted by Izzy

The only other possibility that I thought really - was that she could've been the seer; false saying Loslote was innocent, then voting her. To draw attention towards her vote.... since they can't reveal. However I ruled her out as too new to pull off something like that... especially with less than five posts in between.

Nah, sorry, that seems to have been constructed with hindsight. Don't buy it.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Again. I did not vote BG because of previous game behavior. K. Thanks. I've seen this said more than once - that I voted for her because of last game. This is the second (going to be third) time I think I even said it - I did not vote her because of previous game behavior.

No, you didn't. I've noted you haven't used that excuse, I'll hand you that.

Hmmm. This post of Izzy's has some marks of an exasperated innocent. I'm inclined to move her to the lower end of my suspicion list, along with Shasta. (Zil is already there)

You all know whom that leaves on the upper end, don't you?

EDIT: x-ed with Zil and wilwa.
EDITEDIT: fixed quote formatting in quote of Shasta quoting Zil.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Zil

Dark times for the Terran Fleet, when an Acting Captain can't offer a word of encouragement to one of the crew without it being scrutinised.
In other words, that was a throwaway remark. But if I were working with a Pitchmorph in any capacity I'd certainly do my best to praise him where all could hear.[*eyeroll smiley*]

Ah, I'd overlooked that. OK, satisfies me. (And Shasta, if you'd like to see what a Pitchwolf and a Zilwolf working together look like, read Lottie's game!)

About wilwa's #189: That's better - not saying I agree with all of her conclusions (indeed, on second thought, I agree with none of them as far as top suspects are concerned), but her reaction under pressure has some marks of an exasperated innocent, and at least she's making an effort now. Keep her for another Day.

[wilwarin538]

Things I found interesting, and why:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Triple post, page four, and I'd like to add:
that BG-wagon yesterDay was terrible and an example of Day one stupidity at its worst. I know, I didn't vote, it's easy for me to say - but for crying out loud, voting for someone because of such an obvious bit of sloppiness? Does anyone here actually think a wolf would do that, unless an experienced and tricksy enough wolf to do it as a "no wolf would be so careless" bluff? I'm going to have to look more closely at that wagon - though I understand innocents can sometimes commit such egregious
DAY ONE FAILS too. Don't worry, folks, if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear.

I like this. Even though she is suspecting me for my vote (when she said herself that Sally's vote was indeed out of character), I'm ok with her right now.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

(and I happen to know that Vanessa's a very ebullient personality <3)

I had to google that word. But thanks. <3

Originally Posted by Loslote

(I wonder how many stuff we can stick onto Wilwa's name? )

Vanilordoinnawesomuffin. A lot.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

No, I fully understand your reason, and agree what BG did there would have looked rather wolvish to me as well at the time. But voting her right away without giving her a chance to explain herself?

And I'm not saying that we should concentrate on the BG voters exclusively and ignore everybody else. Like Rikae said, innocents can make bad votes too. But I wouldn't bet that there was no morph at all in that wagon. And given that votes are the best evidence we get in WW, along with the Night-kills, pretending it never happened or blaming it all on BG herself is going to accomplish zip.

I like all of this too. And I think I'm ok with Pitch.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You listed it yourself. BG listed Loslote as 'relatively innocent' in #69. Three posts later, she voted for Loslote. I don't see that as a possible 'noobish' mistake; more akin to noobish wolf yes. In a span of three posts, you somehow forget who you think is innocent, and who is suspicious? Her explanation for how Loslote ended up in that category.. was rather lackluster - not that it entirely mattered at that point.

It seems like you don't fully comprehend my reasons for voting for BG and the implications. If someone makes a mistake like she did - it implies her list of suspicions was fabricated. She did copy it from Loslote. Who would need a fabricated list? Innocent's don't. But metamorphs do.

Bolded part: It still bugs me that some people don't understand that she put her in the wrong category by accident (exclamation marks people, that totally gave away that she had done it on accident). To me it's obvious. BG made a mistake, people pounced on it, and when she tried to explain it they didn't want to take the time to understand, and just kept pushing.

Underlined part: No, not true. I think she was heading out at the time? So she saw someone had made a list and in order to be sure she didn't forget anyone's name, and because there would already be a format, she just copy and pasted it and then rearranged the names, and did it to save time (and goofed). I've done it before (as an innocent, as a gifted, as a wolf, as an everything I'm sure), it's a time saver, not a sign of guilt.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Except that my vote X'ed with Izzy's.

I had not noticed the crosspost. I suppose that makes you look a bit better.

edit: x'ed with Pitch x 2

[Pitchwife]

Bedtime, and voting time.

++Paranoia

If you're wondering why, you haven't read my posts toDay. I'm not comfortable with voting him before he's had a chance to respond, but given our different time zones, it can't be helped. He looks like the most suspicious of the BG voters to me, and I'm not that confident about voting anybody else. And if he's indeed a morph, he's a dangerous one, so get rid of him NOW.

Good Night, and may the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless your planet.

[wilwarin538]

Ok, so I'm going to sleep early since I work in the morning.

I'm not going to vote for Inzil, because I have the feeling no one will go along with that. Ditto for Lottie and Shasta. So I'll go with my fourth option, though I wasn't originally planning on voting him, I'm willing to since I do find him suspicious and I'd rather not waste my vote toDay.

++Paranoia

Good night, and good luck!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Inzil popped in and bandwaggoned, which everyone seems ok with, but I don't like it, he had been suspicious of Eomer and yeah he said BG's vote was poor, but then he disappeared for the next 20 minutes, and just popped in to vote without trying to get in on the discussion going on then or trying to help everyone figure out what BG was trying to say. I really dislike that.

As I already said, I spent the time in between trying to make up my mind about BG. There was no point in questioning her: others were already asking what I would have. When it came to DL I had to decide between her or Sally. Since I saw no chance of getting Sally lynched, I went ahead with BG. I still feel that your making a throwaway vote like you did looks worse than the BG voters.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Bedtime, and voting time.

++Paranoia

If you're wondering why, you haven't read my posts toDay. I'm not comfortable with voting him before he's had a chance to respond, but given our different time zones, it can't be helped. He looks like the most suspicious of the BG voters to me, and I'm not that confident about voting anybody else. And if he's indeed a morph, he's a dangerous one, so get rid of him NOW.

Para, hmm? To me he's really an enigma rather than suspicious, and I really would like to hear what he has to say before I'd consider voting him.

x/d with Wilwa. Bandwagon, anyone?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

(so I take it that her earlier 'voting an innocent' was not referring to BG's list?)

No, it was referring to my innocence.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

#67 Lottie votes me for 'feeling off' = being Mr Agreeable. (How come I 'feel off' for that when I'm suspected for it in every other game?) Her preceding list had me under 'squeamish' and wilwa under 'most suspicious', but her attitude here looks confident and ready to defend her vote (which I'd like to see her do!), therefore rather innocentish.

You were feeling a bit off yesterDay. That's cleared up now, though - you are certainly not acting like Mr. Agreeable this game.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And you had to repair the water leak because our Chief Engineer Lottie well, might have made it worse.

Might have? There is a question?

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Bedtime, and voting time.

[*highlight]++Paranoia[/highlight]

If you're wondering why, you haven't read my posts toDay. I'm not comfortable with voting him before he's had a chance to respond, but given our different time zones, it can't be helped. He looks like the most suspicious of the BG voters to me, and I'm not that confident about voting anybody else. And if he's indeed a morph, he's a dangerous one, so get rid of him NOW.

Good Night, and may the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless your planet.

I really want to wait for Noia to respond, and even when he does, I don't think I'll be voting for him toDay.

EDIT: Xed -

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Wilwa. Bandwagon, anyone?

You can, but I can't?

And it's the second vote of the day, I wouldn't call it bandwaggoning. I do actually find him suspicious, maybe not the most, but I'm not going to vote for someone that I'm pretty positive won't be getting lynched, I would rather not waste my vote like I did yesterDay.

All the bandwaggoners got off fairly clean toDay, but the person who didn't bandwaggon and voted a wolf is suspicious. Now I do what ya'll did yesterDay and I look bad?

You have to see I'm in a very frustrating position here.

x'ed with Lottie

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Ok, so I'm going to sleep early since I work in the morning.

I'm not going to vote for Inzil, because I have the feeling no one will go along with that. Ditto for Lottie and Shasta. So I'll go with my fourth option, though I wasn't originally planning on voting him, I'm willing to since I do find him suspicious and I'd rather not waste my vote toDay.

[*highlight]++Paranoia[/highlight]

Good night, and good luck!

This...this has to be one of the most blatant pieces of bandwaggoning I have ever seen... Vanilwuffin, dear, if you're trying not to look suspicious, this is not the way to do so.

EDIT: xed with Vanilwuffin herself

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

You can, but I can't?

And it's the second vote of the day, I wouldn't call it bandwaggoning. I do actually find him suspicious, maybe not the most, but I'm not going to vote for someone that I'm pretty positive won't be getting lynched, I would rather not waste my vote like I did yesterDay.

All the bandwaggoners got off fairly clean toDay, but the person who didn't bandwaggon and voted a wolf is suspicious. Now I do what ya'll did yesterDay and I look bad?

You have to see I'm in a very frustrating position here.

x'ed with Lottie

They didn't get off fairly clean; they're some of the most highly suspected players toDay. Shasta topped several suspicion lists for a while, and Noia still does. Izzy's still rather suspected (I think) by Pitchie, and by me, though I've only just been able to mention it. Zil hasn't been suspected all the much, true, and neither have I, but not "all the bandwaggoners got off fairly clean toDay."

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Loslote

This...this has to be one of the most blatant pieces of bandwaggoning I have ever seen... Vanilwuffin, dear, if you're trying not to look suspicious, this is not the way to do so.

Uhm, I know. I am exhausted, and really annoyed, and don't really know what else to do. I either vote for someone I really find suspicious, knowing full well that no one else will vote for them and therefore wasting my vote. Or I bandwagon a little and use my vote for someone I do find suspicious, and maybe it'll be a bit more useful.

I vote a wolf. I look bad. I don't vote the seer. I look bad. I don't bandwagon. I look bad. I do bandwagon. I look bad. I vote for someone I barely find suspicious. I look bad. I vote for someone I do find suspicious. I look bad.

I'm thinking no matter, I'm gonna look bad. And the sucky thing is I'm really not bad!

Uh. I know I should shut up now cause I'm probably not making things any better, but I'm really at a loss to what I should be doing right now...

x'ed with Lottie again.

Out of the 5 BG voters (I'm counting Lottie technically in there, since she helped push it along), 2 are under some real suspicion, and of the 2 I think Para looks worse (I said earlier that the cross post thing with Shasta made him look better). I think it's a pretty logical vote.