WW LX - Mortal Men, doomed to die

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I seem to recall Wilwa about ready to vote for Lhuna - she said something about Lhuna creeping into her house in the dead of night to try to feast on her young, or something like that - so imagine my surprise when Wilwa did not in fact vote for Lhuna to be executed. Of course, I'll need to go back and check the wording but that's how I remember it. It's this kind of inconsistency which really gets me. I'm leaning towards thinking she's guilty but I'll confirm my opinion later.

Or does anyone see a problem with this?

You seem to forget, dear, that one cannot always vote for the player they find the most suspicious. Well, they can, but there's not always much point in it. For instance, if I found Lhuna and Nienna suspicious, and Lhuna slightly more so, but Nienna and Nilp were the people with the most votes and I thought Nilp was innocent, I'd be silly to vote for Lhuna (I believe we normally call it a throwaway) when I could use my vote to actually make a difference.


I'm currently trying to decide if Eomer's guilty or just has had too much rum.



EDIT: x'd with Nerwen

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

What has that to do with me or Wilwa, Sally?

Anyway, I'm a whisky man. No time for rum. That's for sailors and Disney-Pirate-Wannabes.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

What has that to do with me or Wilwa, Sally?

Anyway, I'm a whisky man. No time for rum. That's for sailors and Disney-Pirate-Wannabes.

You think it's odd that Wilwa suspected Lhuna but didn't vote her. I'm just bringing that particular fact to your attention, as it seemed you hadn't considered it.


I have to work on my paper, so you'll not be seeing too much of me for a while.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

You seem to forget, dear, that one cannot always vote for the player they find the most suspicious. Well, they can, but there's not always much point in it. For instance, if I found Lhuna and Nienna suspicious, and Lhuna slightly more so, but Nienna and Nilp were the people with the most votes and I thought Nilp was innocent, I'd be silly to vote for Lhuna (I believe we normally call it a throwaway) when I could use my vote to actually make a difference.

Not applicable, in this case– no-one else had more than one vote at the time Wilwa cast hers.

However, I may be missing something, but the fact is, I simply cannot find the post Eomer is talking about (where Wilwa expresses suspicion of Lhuna).

Eomer, are you sure you didn't imagine it?

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

[Nerwen]

Advance warning: I am going to have to vote within the next half-hour.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Not applicable, in this case– no-one else had more than one vote at the time Wilwa cast hers.

However, I may be missing something, but the fact is, I simply cannot find the post Eomer is talking about (where Wilwa expresses suspicion of Lhuna).

Eomer, are you sure you didn't imagine it?

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

That was my other problem (or rather my main problem) with his post, but I figured since I was in a rush I assumed I'd just missed her post or something. I'm sure Eomer would be kind enough to point it out.

And I just wanted to make sure Eomer had considered that may have entered into Wilwa's decision. The same still holds true with who she thought it was possible to lynch, rather than who it looked like was going to be lynched.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm sure someone got the reductio.

I don't want to explain the joke but I guess it's my responsibility if Nerwen has to rush away.

[Kent2010]

Uh... care to share that one with the class, Rune?
-Nerwen

I can explain how I felt about your response to Kath's death, because I have nearly the same feeling as Rune.

Eomer apparently set some kind of trap about the reason Kath was killed and the people who have since come out and insisted Kath was a no-trail kill. I am in limbo about Eomer, because logically it makes sense, it is something I tried on Day 1 in my first game about the new feature of "bonus votes." So, Eomer's feelings about people claiming why Kath was obviously killed are logical, but I am in unsure about him, because anyone with confidence worries me. Eomer seems to be confident this caught a wraith, but there is a fallacy, and that is Eomer is assuming our wraiths are talking and are willing to respond. It might have worked, if we have gabby, type-happy wraiths. But it will fail miserably if we have silent, cautious wraiths.

I don't know about why wolves would kill who they do, I would imagine their first target would always be the seer, and someone's use of words may tip them off. But if so many people believe Kath was a no-trail kill then there has to be some kind of precedent in WW where the wolves target no-trail people? Eomer may have set some kind of trap, but he could have easily trapped innocents who are willingly participating and trying to figure out all the evidence, not wraiths laying low. Is that making sense?

Anyway, the reason I am wary of your response, is the way you are currently playing. Laying low, being in-character most of Day 1, and I admit my vision of baddies has been skewed from my first game. Your response is non-commital you seemingly support Eomer's statement about people assuring why Kath was killed, but then ponder the no-trace kill. You are playing the mediator to Eomer's aggressive confidence. Plus your response comes after Eomer's reveal that "the wraiths easily fell to his trap!," which makes me suspicious towards both of you.

Edit: I cross-posted with many

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kent2010

Your response is non-commital you seemingly support Eomer's statement about people assuring why Kath was killed, but then ponder the no-trace kill. You are playing the mediator to Eomer's aggressive confidence.

Kent, I was just trying to work out why the wolves would have chosen a no-trace kill (if indeed they did) rather than try for a gifted... motivations can be a clue to identity, you know.

[satansaloser2005]

Incidentally, I think there's been way too much talk about Kath and not much about everyone else.

(Sorry, I'll be restricted to one liners for a bit. Bear with me.)

[Nerwen]

Oh, and I don't know what Eomer is up to.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I'm sure someone got the reductio.

I don't want to explain the joke but I guess it's my responsibility if Nerwen has to rush away.

Yes, please do. Not another of your "traps", was it?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The close reader may have noted that Lhuna, while probably inwardly desiring to creep into someone's house and feast on her young, never explicitly stated this in the game thread. I know Lhuna, and she is a bit like that.

But anyway, all I was doing was stating that Wilwa's attempt to discredit me wasn't exactly fair. My post about her is equivalent to her post about me.

And I don't know what Kent's talking about. Traps? That sounds a bit complex.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

The close reader may have noted that Lhuna, while probably inwardly desiring to creep into someone's house and feast on her young, never explicitly stated this in the game thread. I know Lhuna, and she is a bit like that.

But anyway, all I was doing was stating that Wilwa's attempt to discredit me wasn't exactly fair. My post about her is equivalent to her post about me.

And I don't know what Kent's talking about. Traps? That sounds a bit complex.

Granted.



And I never know what Kent's talking about. Join the club.

[Nogrod]

It's funny how communities of people create common truths they all recite like parrots. My "aggressiviness" seems to be one of those saying out aloud of which is always accepted and creates nice bridges of understanding between people. It's nice to be such an indirect "community organiser" indeed. Quite nice visions for career-developement.

But really. I don't think I have ever done this but now I feel I have to at last.

I am not an aggressive, angry and humourless gaffer who plays with taste of blood in his mouth. Sorry. Wrong image.

I'll give you a few hints into reading my posting.

1) High content on self-irony and sarcasm involved, always.
2) Strict separation of what I think about the people playing with me and what I say in-game of them, always.
3) I like to try people, push them to react (how else do you unbalance a careful wolfie?) - that's not aggression, it's testing (I do it always as an innocent and pretend to do it when a baddie) and trying to force others to play.
4) It's hard to express this one (language barriers) but hopefully you get it: I'm always serious about the game (in a sense of doing my best, giving a full effort time allowing) but never serious (in a sense of being grave or without humour).
5) Exception to the rules above, especially rule 4: on morning hours (+3GMT) when innocent / gifted cornered by baddies and facing lynching and having taken too many glasses of wine... I know that's bad.

But that's just a guideline for reading. Feel free to suspect, vote and lynch me if you see it reasonable or tactically good. I just hate to be looked at as a grumpy old man - which this post kind of makes me on a second thought...

Okay. Some actual commments concerning toDay's issues to follow soonish.

EDIT: X'd with a host of posts it seems...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Can it be true? Could I have found myself in the middle of a Sally-Werewolf-Spam-A-Thon?!?!!?

I've seen them before, sure, but... usually I just vote for you instead.

[Kent2010]

I can be here for roughly the next hour than I have straight duties until half-an-hour before the deadline. So most likely I will have time to return and vote, but little else.

Kent, I was just trying to work out why the wolves would have chosen a no-trace kill (if indeed they did) rather than try for a gifted... motivations can be a clue to identity, you know.
-Nerwen

Maybe you are, I was just saying that Eomer is making an assumption about his Kath trap - and that is the wraiths would have responded to it and I am not convinced they would. It all depends upon what wraiths we have here, do we have wraiths that want to flaunt their dirty laundry to the village and rub it in our face? Or wraiths that want to remain silent and safe as much as possible? Eomer's move only finds the former, and I wonder how "easily" the wraiths fell for it as he claims. This is my first game with Eomer, and with many of you, but I get the feeling most here have been in WW for a long time, and I wonder if it was as easy as Eomer claims it to be why would experienced baddies fall for it? And what makes anyone believe a wraith would even respond to Eomer claiming Kath was a seer kill?

Most people made no comment, or in your case you mediated. Maybe you are a thinking, cautious, innocent (I mean I do know that wraiths are not the only ones capable of worrying about being lynched and being found suspicious). But my point I was trying to make is I question the assuredness that Eomer reached with his Kath-trap and therefor I question your subtle support of it.

Edit: more cross posting

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's funny how communities of people create common truths they all recite like parrots. My "aggressiviness" seems to be one of those saying out aloud of which is always accepted and creates nice bridges of understanding between people. It's nice to be such an indirect "community organiser" indeed. Quite nice visions for career-developement.

But really. I don't think I have ever done this but now I feel I have to at last.

I am not an aggressive, angry and humourless gaffer who plays with taste of blood in his mouth. Sorry. Wrong image.

I'll give you a few hints into reading my posting.

1) High content on self-irony and sarcasm involved, always.
2) Strict separation of what I think about the people playing with me and what I say in-game of them, always.
3) I like to try people, push them to react (how else do you unbalance a careful wolfie?) - that's not aggression, it's testing (I do it always as an innocent and pretend to do it when a baddie) and trying to force others to play.
4) It's hard to express this one (language barriers) but hopefully you get it: I'm always serious about the game (in a sense of doing my best, giving a full effort time allowing) but never serious (in a sense of being grave or without humour).
5) Exception to the rules above, especially rule 4: on morning hours (+3GMT) when innocent / gifted cornered by baddies and facing lynching and having taken too many glasses of wine... I know that's bad.

But that's just a guideline for reading. Feel free to suspect, vote and lynch me if you see it reasonable or tactically good. I just hate to be looked at as a grumpy old man - which this post kind of makes me on a second thought...

Okay. Some actual commments concerning toDay's issues to follow soonish.

EDIT: X'd with a host of posts it seems...

*hugs*

I didn't think you were harsh is in grumpy, dear one. I meant harsh in the game sense. You're still everyone's favorite yellow galoshes wearing guy.


EDIT: x'd with Eomer and Kent. I'd take you up on the Spam-a-Thon, but I haven't the time to come up with the material. Make it up in your head; I'm sure it'll be enjoyable as always. Maybe next game.

[Kent2010]

And I don't know what Kent's talking about. Traps? That sounds a bit complex.

Interesting how many people bit at that.

"No! No! It can't possibly be a Seer hint! It had to be because Kath left no trail!"

Why so jumpy? I even asked you not to jump at me?
-Eomer

I would guess biting a trap might be pretty painful, but you were attempting to get responses about your posts on why Kath was killed and you think you got a wraith with it = what I woud call a trap But I wonder if you trapped wraiths or innocents, and if it was innocents, I wonder if it was intentional bait to get the rest of us to follow?

Note to Nogrod, what I mean when I say "aggressive" you might call spirit, vigor - passionate and take no crap. It is not the negative connotation you might associate with the "American cowboy mentality."

[Nogrod]

Btw. although we all know it I think this deserves reciting once again: we have four (4!) wolves around. Just remember that when it looks like there is a gradual consensus building on anyone. The baddies really can play that card now - and their voting power is considerable... and growing.

Another quick one. Yes Kent, to my experience the wolves tend to pick up safe kills quite often when they have no clue on the seer - who surely is their first and always the most important target.

The wolves will probably move for even a slight suspicion of someone being the seer but otherwise there are diferent variations: no-trace-kill is a safe bet everytime, confusing kills are super if there is a situation for it, framing kills are nice but seem not to work unless in certain situations, sporty-kills pick up the non-posters and are a sub-group of safe kills while killing the loudmouths is totally different tactics having an eye to gaining the control of ideas in a quiet village, some times they need to be extra careful with the ranger and/or the hunter but normally not on the first Nights etc...

Quite a range of possibilities then. But safe-kills are quite common indeed.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, looking for responses is fair enough, though I'm not sure I would use the term 'trap'.

Point taken about innocents biting. Any sort of reaction and counter-reaction, though, could prove useful even a few days down the line. Better talk than silence. Soon as we catch a Wraith we trawl through his/her posts to judge the behaviour...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's funny how communities of people create common truths they all recite like parrots. My "aggressiviness" seems to be one of those saying out aloud of which is always accepted and creates nice bridges of understanding between people. It's nice to be such an indirect "community organiser" indeed. Quite nice visions for career-developement.

But really. I don't think I have ever done this but now I feel I have to at last.

I am not an aggressive, angry and humourless gaffer who plays with taste of blood in his mouth. Sorry. Wrong image.

I know you quite well and I was one of the people who started calling you agressive. This had nothing to do with being humourless or being covered in childrens blood. I my self often use hyberbole sarcasm. . .
You wording just seemed very much more forceful than normally.

[Nogrod]

Okay, let's get back into the bussiness of fighting and accusing each other for lycantrophy. I can't stand these nice and understanding words from you guys! (a charachteristic Finnish personality-flaw)

But thanks anyway. You must all be ringwraiths.

[Kent2010]

Point taken about innocents biting. Any sort of reaction and counter-reaction, though, could prove useful even a few days down the line. Better talk than silence. Soon as we catch a Wraith we trawl through his/her posts to judge the behaviour...
-Eomer

True and that is why I am in limbo about you. I have not successfully spotted a baddie yet, in fact you could say I have defended more wolves than suspected so far (Nogrod could tell you more about that ). Generally talk is good, and I think some people as baddies like to wave the clues right in front of our face, but some people as baddies like to remain as quiet as possible. So, who do we go for? Getting that first one always seems to be a 300lb gorilla on your back.

On the negative side there is his respons to Wilwa “Not to call you a hypocrit”. . .if you don’t want to call people hypocrites then don’t use the word. (It is very simple) It seems like a very odd thing to say.
-Rune

Maybe I should have added a smiley to show the jest in referencing wilwarin's post from Day 1 saying she did not want to vote for the few posters, because she did not want to be hypocritical. Because it was honestly not meant to really call her a hypocrit but to point out the irony between Day 1 and Day 2.

Also, I will honestly say my responses about it are not something I am holding for a later day against her. They are in no way meant to be taken seriously, nor be used for serious suspicions (unlike smiley placement - that is very suspicious! )

I was confused by wilwarin's voting reasons yesterday, but you reminded me that cofusing logic, does not make wraith behaviour. And wilwarin's response to me today looks more like that innocent willingness that Rune pointed out about her Day 1 posts.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So did Nerwen take off without voting again?

Same old faces are posting, where are the others, hmm?

[Nerwen]

Okay, I hate having to vote this early, especially when there's so many people who have posted little or not at all.

Nogrod seems okay toDay (although Kath's death could point to him). Legate ditto, and the continued existence of Lhuna points away from him (not that that's conclusive). .

I was thinking of Wilwarin before, both because of her vote yesterDay and because her helpful-list thing toDay reminds me of Brinnwolf...but Eomer is going after her (or is he?) and I don't know what to make of him at all.

Brinniel was another suspicious voter, but again hasn't posted more than once toDay, Shasta yet another, but hasn't posted at all... so they're slipping off my radar. And everyone else is completely off it. (As we all know, at least one of them is probably evil..)

At the moment I'm thinking Rune or Sally.

EDIT: X'd since Nogrod.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I seem to recall Wilwa about ready to vote for Lhuna - she said something about Lhuna creeping into her house in the dead of night to try to feast on her young, or something like that - so imagine my surprise when Wilwa did not in fact vote for Lhuna to be executed. Of course, I'll need to go back and check the wording but that's how I remember it. It's this kind of inconsistency which really gets me. I'm leaning towards thinking she's guilty but I'll confirm my opinion later.

Or does anyone see a problem with this?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

However, I may be missing something, but the fact is, I simply cannot find the post Eomer is talking about (where Wilwa expresses suspicion of Lhuna).

Eomer, are you sure you didn't imagine it?

He's just trying to bug me.....and he's succeeding....

Alright Eomer, I re-read your posts from yesterDay, I see now that you didn't actually suspect Nogrod at anytime, my confusion was just a result of me trying to read everything and take notes in the very small frame of time that I had, so I'll give you that one. But I still don't feel too awesome about you. Therefore, I'm just gonna leave it at that. Unless you do something amazing to totally turn me around, you are my main suspect.

The wolves will probably move for even a slight suspicion of someone being the seer but otherwise there are diferent variations: no-trace-kill is a safe bet everytime, confusing kills are super if there is a situation for it, framing kills are nice but seem not to work unless in certain situations, sporty-kills pick up the non-posters and are a sub-group of safe kills while killing the loudmouths is totally different tactics having an eye to gaining the control of ideas in a quiet village, some times they need to be extra careful with the ranger and/or the hunter but normally not on the first Nights etc...

I agree with this. That is why it's so hard to interpret Night 1 kill choices, and very easy for arguments to start in regard to peoples interpretations. The possible reasons why they chose Kath probably shouldn't be discussed again until there is more info.

Anyway, just popping in and trying to stay updated. Off to lunch, will try to be back in a couple of hours.

x'posted with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Well, then–

++Sally

for bad voting and bad vibes (see her response to Brinn and her opening post toDay).

[Nerwen]

Goodnight all.

[satansaloser2005]

The weird thing is that although I think Eomer's acting very suspicious, at the moment I don't think he's a wolf. Does that make sense?


I'm still troubled by Noggie, and I've still been getting bad vibes from Lhuna. In my book my beloved Nilpiekins is innocent and I'm sure Brinn is too. Lhuna's crossed over to the dark side, though. I'll look over her posts again, but I think I may be voting her toDay. Maybe....I don't know. I'll have to see.

With Nog though, I think it's just the general mistrust (or rather, hesitation to trust him) that I always have for the poor kid. YesterDay he looked really off the wall and he still does, but I'm a bit doubtful that it's for dark purposes now. I'll have to make my final decision later, but I think I'll leave him alone for the rest of the Day and see how things shape up after the vote toDay.


I don't think there's been a vote count, actually. I'll just go do that real quick.


ETA: Nightie night, Nerwen.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I'm around just for a little bit, so I'm very very quickly posting a short summary of people as to toDay...

Nienna - is basically not around. Now, I would not like to start about that, but I think people who are silent should try not to be that silent anymore, because otherwise nobody is able to read anything about them.
Kent2010 - I was somewhat unsettled by something in his posts at the beginning of this Day, but otherwise the feeling of him reasonable and trying remains.
Nogrod - still looks quite like a typical Nogrod, and even his recent sort of outburst does not seem any suspicious to me or anything.
Shastanis Althreduin - did he post anything toDay?
wilwarin538 - with the recent posting with Eomer and all I am becoming again a bit more confused, so I don't know. Maybe it would do good to look at her in total... or then maybe who knows, as sometimes she seems to me quite hard to get. "Chaotic."
Nerwen - somewhat hard to say, she gets harder to read when she posts, though basically the feeling I'm getting about her is genuine
Nilpaurion Felagund - not posted much more, hope to see more in the future
Rune Son of Bjarne - looks still more or less the same to me, like a good Rune
Lhunardawen - did not post toDay yet
Eomer of the Rohirrim - okay, I probably really do not get him, but whatever. I could understand if he was trying to lay traps for Wraiths, but the way he posted really does not make much sense to me. He makes me feel uneasy... have to think more. Because really making no sense in some ways... if there was a Cobbler, it would have been easier to say.
Groin Redbeard - did not post AT ALL... I hope he shows up
satansaloser2005 - posts a bit more scarcely, so it's hard to say now. I would certainly like her to post more: otherwise, just sticking with my feelings from yesterDay.
Eönwë - he showed for a bit in the beginning, I think, but did not really say much. Hope he will show up yet too.
Brinniel - also did not quite show up yet toDay either, unless I missed something?

Overall, one thing I don't like is that this far - the really lack of posting from many people, just basically today only some posted - hope the following almost-four hours will make a difference... (well, I can also imagine that when I come back home there will be two more pages ) I will be hopefully back at some two hours before DL for certain, and then keep around...

edit: x-ed with nerwen&sally

[Nogrod]

Some things off my back I have tried to post for a while now.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I knew I did not have a good case and that more often than not, it is an ordo who is lynched on day 1. . . Why would I go out and try to convince everyone to vote Isabel, when I was not at all sure of her guilt?
I am only obligated to tell why I vote as I do, I don't have to campaign for others to do the same.

I'm not saying you should try to convince or campaign everyone for your vote (or to be a village-leader as Eomer put it). But if you're around you could join the discussion and give your points of view. Instead you decided to just back off and follow the ending of the Day from aside. The problem with that is - as I said already - that wolves tend to do that when the voting is going their way and they don't want to dirty their hands in any last minute discussions which are always a bit unpredictable as one doesn't know for sure how the votes will go in the end.

Originally Posted by Rune crossposting my earlier post

He is actually right in some way, because I did sit back and followed end of the day. I had very little to say and it was not extremely important for me who was lynched, as long as it was not me.

But looking back at this I may have to retract some of my suspicion on you because of this though. You might be earnest here - even if I do wonder your stance (this is not the only facet of this game we tend to disagree on... ).

Originally Posted by Kent

Your past deadline vote for sally looks bad I do not imagine you to be someone who likes to miss voting. There was a general confusion towards the end, but there is no indication you cross-posted with anyone (including Eonwe's vote before yours) - did you?

Well, I was refreshing the screen ready to vote unsure whether I was in the lead or not and did see both Kath and Eomer voting for Izzy - and registered someone posting a non-vote post there after them. But it was .00 at that time. So I decided that I could afford voting Sally in hopes of someone else doing the same move - but not compromising my own safety any more. I refreshed the screen once more to see that Eönwë had also voted and then decided to stick to my then already written Sally-vote. But it looks that while bolding the vote the minute went off (it was .00 when I started bolding it) and only after I had pushed the submit reply -button did I notice the time being .01.

Yes, I hate to miss the DL.

Originally Posted by Kent

This is interesting, and this is what I was going to be suspicious of Kath for today, but that is moot now. Anyway, the over-reaction to the two votes against you worries me. First, I would not classify two early votes as a bandwagon - what happened to Izzy yesterday was a bandwagon. And secondly who determined you are innocent?

An overreaction to the two votes? I was in a shared lead three minutes before the DL with those two votes...

When the votes are spread widely one vote is little but another one is highly significant as it brings that one person seriously on the fray - which was exactly what Sally's vote did.

And to your second question: Lommy determined that I'm an innocent and I happen to know that: so I know it was putting an innocent into the lead - and if Sally is a baddie she knew that as well.


But that's for that for my part. I'll need some supper now but will be back in an hour or something - and will probably have time then.

The focus of my next little study will probably be: who withheld their cards in the end causing all that insecurity and "randomness" there in the end?

Then possibly for something completely different as I'm afraid I've lost the focus once more.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

My, my . . . a most interesting colloquy indeed!

If anyone here reads history they will notice a certain cycle to things. You know, dark lords rising, and then suddenly falling due to the action of one man, thought to be insignificant at that time. There are also stories of villages losing their silent ones on the first DAY of their foundation, because it is far easier to hide among vocal villagers. Moreover it is more likely that the prophets of said villages would be among the quiet ones, since they would fear drawing the village's attention to themselves too soon. (A trend that future prophets would be wise to remember. ) Besides, setting up a DAY 2 frame-up is too ponderous, and who would be the easiest to frame-up early on in the game? The boisterous ones, correct?

Therefore, unless this trend changes, I do not think DAY 1 kills have deception in mind.

To acknowledge the metagame is to change it.

I have no hidden agenda, Adam. *opens fan, hides lower part of the face*

In any case, I shall be back with a more, ah, timely post, about my specific suspicions, and other less philosophical thoughts. But wait, here's one I've noticed: Kent seems to be currying favour from the sorceror Tivo? But what for, I imagine? Does he require aid for a magical quest, perchance?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

My friend Asbjørn just stopped by and I have not seen him for a long time, so I would rather spend time with him than with you. I don't know when he will be leaving so I will vote now.

++Eönwë

His way of playing so far don't sit right with me. He needs to say more about what he thinks and not just comment on what other people say. The only problem I have with voting this way, is that I have a feeling that this could just be the way Eönwë plays, no matter if he is bad or good.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Rune

I don’t like her first comment of the game, it seems like it is written so that people shall pity her, but then again it is very like her to portray her self as a victim. (I could be reading it wrong)

Yeah, you did read it wrong. I never asked for pity; I merely wanted to explain that my participation would be minimal and it was based on RL reasons. Random votes aren't good votes, but I couldn't avoid it. I hate being called suspicious because I'm unable to participate as much as I would like. And that first "Nogrod should vote me now" comment was meant to be sarcastic, if that was the first comment you were talking about.

Okay, Eomer's making me uncomfortable, and now with reason. He's acting overly defensive and seems to go after anyone who suspects or disagrees with his theories.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Brinniel consumes the vibes by osmosis: Kath was an untraceable kill - Eomer is a villain.

I don't know why you're connecting my thoughts with others' earlier posts. Any bad vibes I received from you were based only on your own posts and the reason I said Kath was an untraceable kill was because she often has been in the past.

Originally Posted by Kent

I don't know about why wolves would kill who they do, I would imagine their first target would always be the seer, and someone's use of words may tip them off. But if so many people believe Kath was a no-trail kill then there has to be some kind of precedent in WW where the wolves target no-trail people?

Yes, the seer is a priority target, but rarely can the wolves spot a potential seer after the first Day since it's a bit early to tell. Wolves often make no-trace kills because it's easy early in the game and if they have no clue as to who the seer is, why risk killing someone whose death could point back to them?

I don't really see why Kath's death has led to such a big debate. She could've been killed for either reasons, but there's really no way to know for sure, so there's no reason to base a suspicion on any sort of assumption on why Kath died. Savvy?

From the votes yesterDay, I'd say Sally's is the most suspicious since the timing could indicate an opportunist wolf. Other than that, I don't have much reason to suspect her.

I have to get ready then go to class soon, so a vote will come sometime within the next hour.

[wilwarin538]

K, change of plans for me, I'm voting now, cause it's seeming very likely that I won't be able to make it back. Don't however be surprised if I pop back in quickly closer to the end, it's just not guaranteed.

++Eomer

That shouldn't come as a surprise.

Good luck everyone!

[Eönwë]

Ok, I'm here, am catching up with what I missed...

Meanwhile:

Originally Posted by wilwa about me

quite obsessed with that greek letter, haha.

One and a half posts = obsessed?

edit: don't know if I x-ed (probably did). haven't caught up yet.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

One and a half posts = obsessed?

The "haha" was cause I was joking about that part . I didn't mean to make it sound like that was the reason I was unsure of you.

Just popped in quick between checking my e-mails, heading out now and am now pretty much positive that I won't be able to make it back.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Interesting how many people bit at that.

"No! No! It can't possibly be a Seer hint! It had to be because Kath left no trail!"

Why so jumpy? I even asked you not to jump at me?

Look at Kath's list. She is neutral about everyone; except she says she is "keen" on Eomer and "not keen" on Shasta. Now, where I come from, "keen" can be significant.

I'm not going to press the point any further, as I'm very far from convinced myself. It's just funny how three (I think) people have jumped on this rejecting it immediately, not even entertaining the notion. This whole decision of leaving Kath-discussion down to "IT WAS A SAFE KILL - THE END" strikes me as lazy.

First of all, I agree with you that it's not good just to leave it as an "it was a safe kill - the end", but there really isn't that much she said that we have much to go on.
What I don't like, however is the the way that you are being jumpy by immediately labelling people who disagree with your comments as being jumpy. And don't they have a right to disagree with you? Especially when the way you put your ideas makes it seem obvious that you are innocent.
You speak reason, but I don't like your methods.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Well, people have become quite less industrious of late. Ah, well . . . since it is a good way of gathering one's thoughts--besides, a rereading of the thread can yield new information--I shall post a vote list here.

DAY 1 (times are in GMT +8, known innocents are underlined).

16:08 Brinn - Sally
Sally - 1

Process of elimination + randomness. Possible Wraith-on-Wraith.

17:14 Shasta - Nogrod
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 1

A rather hurried vote, perhaps one made due to ill feelings, and the fact that the recipient has been (and still is) a more eager participant in these proceedings, and therefore an easy target for slander, among other things. Combined with other factors (i.e. the NIGHT kill) I am inclined to think him innocent. (Will be wary of him, however, due to historical things.)

20:11 Nilp - Nilp
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 1, Nilp - 1

I must admit I missed doing that. I also missed doing that and living to tell the tale ( at Sally).

20:42 Rune - Izzy
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 1, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 1

He has gone for the under-the-radar types who have posted, and then voted for the one he thought was most sneaky. Took flak for his '98% random' addendum, which seemed to me an innocuous remark. Looks helpful today, so perhaps innocent.

20:52 Wilwa - Eomer
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 1, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 1, Eomer - 1

Process of elimination + coin flip (i.e. randomness). Possible Wraith-on-Wraith; in fact, I think it is. Combined with his, ah, interesting interaction with Eomer, I am suspicious of her.

23:44 Sally - Nogrod
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 1, Eomer - 1

'Darker motives', indeed. An excellent turn of phrase, and an excellent dodge of explanations, too. A tie-breaker vote and a possible bandwaggon starter, a vote highly suspected by many, myself included. (Sorry, luv, but I do have my duties. )

02:12 Lhuna - Legate
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 1, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1

Has gone after him consistently in previous posts, and I could see her points against him--more on that later. Probably innocent.

03:18 Kent - Rune
Sally - 1, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 1, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Latches on to the '98% random' comment. Combined with curious conversations with the aforementioned sorcerer I am suspicious of him.

03:24 Nienna - Sally
Sally - 2, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 1, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Goes after Sally for her vote. Curiously, he defends Nogrod despite his vociferous statements regarding her kind (I myself, perhaps, am in that group). Probably innocent, but will bear close watching.

03:52 Legate - Izzy
Sally - 2, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 2, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Has been going after Izzy in previous posts. (You and I, sir, will have to cross swords after all this is over. ) Vote looks innocent, but other aspects of his posting are not. I'll speak on that more later.

03:59 Izzy - Sally
Sally - 3, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 2, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

First of the cross-votes. A vote to save herself and Nogrod.

03:59 Kath - Izzy
Sally - 3, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 3, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Second of the cross-votes. Went after Izzy for her controversial tie-keeping comment.

03: 59 Eomer - Izzy
Sally - 3, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 4, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Third of the cross-votes. He intended to save Nogrod, and he has been declaring suspicion of Izzy in previous posts--which, interestingly, started after Rune's vote. Hmmm. Combined with certain posts and a few curious interactions with Legate I am suspicious of him--more on that later.

04:00 Eönwë - Izzy
Sally - 3, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 5, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Fourth of the cross-votes. Chose by elimination, as he didn't want Nogrod dead and wary of lynching Sally. Hmmm. Will bear close watching.

04:01 Nogrod - Sally (did not count)
Sally - 3, Nogrod - 2, Nilp - 1, Izzy - 5, Eomer - 1, Legate - 1, Rune - 1

Has been going after Sally for her vote. Probably innocent, or a cool customer. Inclined to think the former.

No votes: Groin, Nerwen, Nogrod (late vote).

More on certain detail later.

[Brinniel]

Okay, I can't wait any longer, so:

++Eomer

For reasons I already explained.

I thought I would have more time but I've been distracted with finalising a decision for an apartment and I have a final shortly. Again, sorry for my cruddy participation so far; things should get better for me after Day 3.