Werewolf Four and Thirty: Bloodbath in the Anduin Vale

[Volo]

Hmm... Been thinking ovet the three cases of Kath, Nogrod and Rikae, again.

Case Kath deffinitely feels most innocent of them all. Except that she doesn't look the same as the innocent Kath I know, not enough praise.

Case Nogrod looks the most suspicious. His posts are all extremely amusing and make you smile, but that is the problem. He reminds me of the Wolf Nogrod, a lot of wise words that in truth have very little meaning.
#9: amusing, but for those that go for cobbler-hints, this seems to be full of them. Two far-out suspicions, a bit too brave maybe, but that is exactly what Nogrod can be. Ok, I do see that they are sent to two quiet players and might *cough* encourage them to speak. The part about Menel isn't interesting.
Then there are many posts that speak for his innocence, especially #91. That feels genuine.
A few good points come next. Haha, funny, how I first suspected him for not having good points in every post like in my first game when he was a Wolf.
But then comes #111 and completely baffles me. He pretty much says the same thing to every vote. "Could be Wolf or Innocent." The tone changes for a few players, but this post genuinely feels like a filler.
His vote also makes me wonder, especially if Izzie is a Wolf. (Or then my first game just left a too strong impression.) A good trick, to vote just after a fellow and make it look like a cross-post tie.
On Day2, he is lucky to be the first one to tell his thoughts on the narration. I don't really know how to take it... I do like his idea about Kath though.
#144 is a wierd post of explaining own actions. It looks very jumpy, as there is no real accusation on the matter, or even small accusation for the matter.

Oh, damn. I really wrote a too long post there... Anyway, I tried saying that from a "neutral perspective", to give others something to think on, as I myself don't trust my feelings enough yet. I don't want to vote Nogrod for just my own thoughts.

Case Rikae. Well, I had something I wanted to say about her, but I forgot... Looks innocent, altough a bit defencive. I'll say more if remember what to say.

At the moment I'm most inclined to vote Kath out of the three. Nogrod's point about Durelin going after her is one of the main motivations.

That doesn't mean I'll certainly vote Kath. Some quiet person, like Izzie could be one... I'll see to the rest and go eat something, I'm starving.


EDIT: Xd with everything since my last post.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Volo, to be honest you slightly annoy me. (Even though your "" was quite heart-breaking... ) I never know whether you suspect or suspect people, if you know what I mean. Your tactics give you a perfect cover. That's not a good thing because others can't figure out anything about you nor decide are you innocent or not. Others have raised good points on the issue and I won't be repeating them. There's one more, minor point however. It's always easier for wolves to come up with people they can reasonably think innocent than people who they could reasonably hold suspicious. So, by suspecting innocent-looking people a Volf could get an all-too-big drop of sincerity to his posts.

Haha. ha... Well, I really messed that one up. I realized after deciding that this is exactly that, a perfect cover for a Baddie. But, since I posted about this in the Admin-thread before we got the roles, I think it is cleared.

I don't think we should waste a vote on Gil-Galad be he Wolf or Innocent. If he survives to the end, we can just say that "We won't give you any credit for not even being present ".

[Volo]

Ok, let's be honest. Main suspects:
Kath as the Bear.
Nogrod as a Wolf.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It might be safe to assume at least to begin with that the one (or more) who killed Menel were goodies.

Maybe. I'm remembering in the last game I modded that one of my wolves killed the other the first night. While that doesn't seem to apply to this game (the bad guys can seemingly converse), it's possible (I think) that there can be different 'breeds' of bad guys that might not know each others' identities. Menel could have been an accident, he could have been strategic (a decoy, or a martyr)...

So we could have goodies that can kill. But the two others then? The easy answer is that we have wolves and the werebear.

So what exactly is a were-bear? And has 'thief' ever been used as a role before?

Originally Posted by Morm

Trust me or not I do not care but Mith is innocent I tell you. Now on to Fea another one I can read a bit better than most

I agree about Mith. I'm curious what you'll have to say about me, since I've been unhelpful and distant (unavoidable) thus far. You really can read me better than most. It's a lovely change from the people who find me inscrutable.

Originally Posted by 6th Wizard

Nogrod: Seems a bit jumpy. I don't think he's himself.

I agree he seems jumpy. I disagree that he doesn't seem like himself. He merits watching as a general thing, but at the moment, he doesn't concern me much. To me, he's the sort wherein if we leave him around, he'll be as helpful as he always is, but if it gets to a point near the end where he is a bad guy, he'll probably give himself away. I'm vaguely certain that he's someone we ought to keep around for a while. We can always kill him later, but we can't always replace his helpful activity.

[QUOTE=Mormegil[b]]++Kath

[/b]Kath is Kath and generally I'm happier if she is simply dead, plus she deserves it.[/QUOTE]

Hilarious and probably true. I've missed working 'with' you guys.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Fea's posts seem quite self-centered and that makes me slightly uneasy. But otherwise she seems quite innocent so I'm not too worried about her.

Don't worry, hunny, I'm always self-centered.

[Mithalwen]

I am here - sorry to be so late but err domestic politics dominate weekends and this was the earliest I could get to the moot. While there aren't so many posts clearly a lot has happened over night and I need to get my head round it all. But it is nice to know I was right about Menel ....

Back as soon as I have had a readthrough....

[Volo]

...but I'd still rather not vote a person who talks enough to make slips.

[Aganzir]

I agree with Volo about not lynching Gil. It would feel so useless to waste a Day's lynch on him if he's innocent, especially since we have no double lynchings. I don't know if this is a stupid thing to ask, but if we have an Assassin around, should s/he consider killing Gil if he won't start contributing (normally he would be modkilled toDay anyway if he didn't start speaking)?
If Gil's a wolf, we'll never catch him, but at the moment he's nothing but dead weight as he doesn't speak nor vote.

Rikae, I made the analysis mainly to help me organize my thoughts, and including Durelin's death in it would only have made me more confused. I'm afraid the analysis is not very useful without her in it, but I didn't feel myself capable of including her.

edit: xed with Volo

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't know if this is a stupid thing to ask, but if we have an Assassin around, should s/he consider killing Gil if he won't start contributing (normally he would be modkilled toDay anyway if he didn't start speaking)?

Hmm... Good idea. At least that would help us figure out the roles. If we do have a Good Assassin, we could then discuss the kills during Day. And this means that the Assassin doesn't need to be revealed.

[Volo]

Or maybe no. Let's not talk about the Assassin, as there is more probably a Bear and talking about the Assassin will get him/her to reveal. (And because I can't really suspect Kath if there is an Assassin )

[Mithalwen]

Well I have read but it isn't really helping yet. Durelin's thief role intrigues me and there may be some aspect of it that explains her attention seeking behaviour yesterday but I guess we will have to wait for the end to find out the full details.

Nevertheless her attack on Kath is interesting. Unlikely perhaps to be based on knowledge since we started with a day phase. And thief is not a particularly glorious title for a "good" (though neither is assassin). So I am probably being thick in not quite seeing Durelin's attack on Kath as an absolute indication to
lynch Kath. Either Durelin received some priveleged information at the start of the game or it was random or pure mischief making. But the fact
of her death would seem to put her on the side of the angels...

[Volo]

*slap* Big mistake! I was talking nonsense there as Kath can't be the Bear and spied on by Durelin. She would have to be a Wolf, and that feels less probable. :/

There are so many flying over my radar that I feel very useless now.

[Kath]

Love you too morm.

Aganzir - defends Fea. Had Menel down as innocent but with it being so early in the game those without extra knowledge couldn't have known he was a wolf. But then, she got xyzzy and Rune down as innocents correctly too. Chance or something more? Actually I think it is just chance. Aganzir is a fine werewolf player from what I've seen of her and I don't think that if she is a wolf she'd give such a 'he's innocent' statement about Menel. Thinks Shasta and Volo are the ones that look most suspicious and could vote for the former.

Guy - feels Noggie, Boro and Rune are innocent all with some reasoning behind it. I may disagree with it but it makes him look innocent.

Lommy - says she can't really find anyone to suspect bar xyzzy and Boro, and the cases against those two aren't good. Does no one else feel that she's a bit off? I usually find that she feels very innocent, admittedly even when she is a wolf, so this seems odd to me.

Mith - does agree that loud players are more useful than quiet ones, but says it's too early to really be worrying about it. Says she was mentioning me rather than suspecting me though I might still be evil, but it's the hasty votes that merit the most attention. She was the one that noted the possible meaning within Sauce's narration, picking out some pretty interesting and possible points.

Volo - argues against the voting for the unhelpful or quiet players. Odd statement about Lommy always voting xyzzy with no reason when she had just avoided doing that before turning that on it's head and saying that actually he does think xyzzy is suspicious. It isn't the flip flop that I don't like but rather the comment to Lommy. She had specifically avoided voting xyzzy for no reason so why say it? Decides he won't vote Nogrod because when he looks guilty he's generally innocent. Well, he said he was going to use odd logic. Which apparently includes defending me. I don't think Volo has ever been on my side before! Says Rikae feels like wolf-Rikae so he won't vote her either. This is actually quite irritating this new tactic, mostly because he isn't giving any reasons for his suspicions. Uses his mad logic to think that Rikae and guy are the ones that seem suspicious, but says he doesn't want to vote for guy. Then votes guy. Interesting flip flop, perhaps he's taking lessons from Lommy. I hope Volo starts to put some more understandable logic in soon, I'm having trouble following him.

Legate - says only later in the game will he advocate killing the quiet ones but does mention that Izzie turned up and then disappeared again which he finds irresponsible. It's an odd word to use but then Legate is prone to using long words. Thinks xyzzy innocent but finds Noggie, Lommy and Menel suspicious. Looks pretty innocent to me so far. Weird post where he first says that he thinks lynching the quiet ones early is a good idea, but then turns around completely and says actually no it isn't. This feels more like a train of thought post to me, where as he was writing he changed his mind. Only thing is that it started off as a defense against guy saying he was in fact arguing against Rune when previously he'd said he was agreeing with him. And then he says why not lynch morm, totally getting the wrong stick of guy's argument (at least the way I see it). Not sure if this is confused innocent or twisting wolf.

Rikae - defends herself against my earlier suspicion pretty calmly, and then adds on her own suspicion of me. In fairness it's probably merited since my suspicion of her was based on a readthrough that had only taken tone into account not content. Says xyzzy could be worth voting for but doesn't really seem to think he's suspicious which is a bit odd.

Boro - is somewhat suspicious of Mith for mentioning that the first poster has been found to be wolvish in the past. There was once a summary looking at that which I think found that the first poster could be pretty much anything, so Boro might actually have something there. I always find it odd when Mith uses statistical type arguments to support what she's saying, it doesn't feel like something she'd do. Still, the last time I said that she ended up being the Seer or something, so I'll let it go. Says to let everyone do their own thing as if we come up with a plan it will give the wolves an advantage since they'll know what we're doing. This is a good point. Plans are only ever useful if you have known innocents and Gifted's to ensure the wolves can't use it to their own ends, and hopefully we won't have either for a while yet, so long as we don't go and force a Gifted to reveal so early.

Menel - voted xyzzy.

Fea - makes a lot of lists. I never can get a read on her. Votes xyzzy because she has no one better to vote for, suggesting that her list where she put Mith and morm as 'blood-stained' wasn't really based on anything.

Rune - says he won't vote Menel as he often does and finds him innocent, but that he's less worried about suspecting Boro because he turns out to be guilty more often. Then votes Durelin for no real reason. The narration seems to suggest Rune was attacked by the wolves, and really it does make sense. He'd not said much, mostly commenting on the quiet/loud debate and making non-commital comments about people. No trail.

Guy - votes Durelin after previously using his 'random number generator' to end up with her name and then said he was doing it in order to lynch the quiet ones. Coming up with two reasons just to randomly lynch someone seems odd to me.

Ok I'm being called off to eat dinner now and then I believe we have a film to watch. I've got to post 90 now and I may finish this when I get back but to be honest I'm getting bored of it so I can't imagine how dull everyone else is finding it. I'll probably just try and organise my thoughts as to what I think of who. Should be back around 10.

[Boromir88]

I also have to disagree vehemently on Boro and Menel's arguing. One of my first thoughts on learning of Menel's wolvishness was that that little exchange had wolf-on-wolf argument written all over it. I will have to go back and see if I can be more specific- but it felt rather planned.~Rikae

Oh Rikae, I felt so good about you yesterday, but saying things like that could just end up getting you killed. I have a feeling it's going to end up happening like this...who ever (of us two) dies first the village will quickly know the purpose of the other (innocent? or evil?) I'm of course hoping you end up dead before me, therefor everyone will know what side I'm on.

It sounds like you're saying the one who killed Menel suspected him loudly yesterDay.~Aganzir

Pah, I would never be that blunt!

unless what we call assassin is a Hunter-like role who is sure s/he knows a wolf

That would be quite a role indeed! I wish I had one, like that, so interesting and an outright joy to mess around with.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Menel - began the loud/quiet wolf debate. While it's great for us in terms of numbers it's almost a shame that he died so quickly, as we don't really know which side of the coin he was on.

:

Huh -wasn't werewolfe clear enough... Durelin's the puzzle -at least for me...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Huh -wasn't werewolfe clear enough... Durelin's the puzzle -at least for me...

I think she refers to whether Menel would like the quiet die or not.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I see..that makes sense - that it might indicate if his co-wolves were at either extreme... ok ..

[Nogrod]

Volo, I would greatly appreciate if you could enlighten me on two things.

Firstly. Why do you think Kath can't be a bear if there is an assassin around / Kath can't be a bear spied on by Dury and to top that Kath is less probably a wolf *than a bear*? I just can't follow your reasoning here...

To me Kath looks suspicious because she feels like one who is not playing straight but has some evil intentions. It's all the same to me whether she's a wolf or a bear or a godzilla. If she's a baddie of a sort or another and we lynch her for that it's fine to me. And I can't see a reason to exclude one kind of evil from her yet.

Secondly. When do you use your reverse-way and when not or do you use it all the time? It's a bit hard to get a grip on your posts when one can't be sure what is it that you mean when you say you suspect someone or not.

EDIT: added the *-part* to underline what I meant

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Boro

Oh Rikae, I felt so good about you yesterday, but saying things like that could just end up getting you killed. I have a feeling it's going to end up happening like this...who ever (of us two) dies first the village will quickly know the purpose of the other (innocent? or evil?) I'm of course hoping you end up dead before me, therefor everyone will know what side I'm on.

How so? You leave out the possibility that I am a misguided innocent, accusing another ordo...
actually, this statement raises you from "yellow" to "orange" alert on my radar. It's just the sort of thing I would say, if I were a wolf and you suspected me.

About Kath...having been a wolf with her before, I'm beginning to think she's a bit too active to be evil now. In that game she posted enough to seem helpful, but nothing of this kind of volume. Of course, she's certainly smart enough to change her style for just that reason, and the tense feeling pervades even her lengthy posts.

I'm opposed to killing Gil for the time being. Chances are he's innocent...I have to think that if he were a wolf, he would participate...so we're better off not reducing our numbers unnecessarily. He will likely end up as wolf-fodder if we don't (safe kill, no trail) and we'll have a chance of doing something more useful during the day.

I really cannot shake the uneasy feeling that TGWBS and/or Sixth is attracting too little attention adn possibly getting away with murder. I'm not sure why. They have both been smooth - commenting without impacting the group consciousness - differently, of course, but they both seem ... to want to be forgotten.

If I must trust someone, for now, I place conditional trust in Lommy & Legate - who feel sincere -...as well as Fea and Morm... odd, but innocently so.

Mith doesn't worry me at this point, but I'm not confident in it.

Aganzir's explanation for her incomplete analysis seemed shaky and poorly thought out. Not capable? Sorry, Agan, but you can't play the newbie card - you've simply shown too much talent.

Where is Izzy?

At this point I'm willing to vote for either Boromir or Aganzir...or possibly Kath. I wouldn't be adverse to an anti-TGWBS or anti-Sixth campaign, either, if one should arise.
I have the same problem as Lommy in this game...too many suspects. (Maybe that means there are lots of baddies?)

One other thought that came to me...is it possible that Durelin's role was sort of a reciprocal version of a hunter? IE, whoever she spies on shares her fate...if she's killed, they die, and vice versa?

EDIT - X'd with Noggie.

[Volo]

Good to see you back, Nogrod.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Secondly. When do you use your reverse-way and when not or do you use it all the time? It's a bit hard to get a grip on your posts when one can't be sure what is it that you mean when you say you suspect someone or not.

I'm thinking on dropping the whole thing. When I said "feel" I didn't really suspect. When I said "suspect" I really suspected. So, I suspect you and Kath. Though not enough to dare vote for either, yet. Mostly of all, because I tend to be wrong, and because I haven't really formed opinions on other players.

Firstly. Why do you think Kath can't be a bear if there is an assassin around / Kath can't be a bear spied on by Dury and to top that Kath is less probably a wolf? I just can't follow your reasoning here...

It all contradicts my views of the preveous Night if Kath was spied on by Durelin and is the Bear. I can't be sure (though I pretty much am), but I think that Durelin was killed for spying the Wolves. (SPM, having a good laugh?)
Otherwise Kath can be whatever evil you want to name. She just feels more Bear than Wolf, and I'm not using "feel" in the annoying way.


I do find Lommy genuine.


EDIT: Xd with Rikae

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

One other thought that came to me...is it possible that Durelin's role was sort of a reciprocal version of a hunter? IE, whoever she spies on shares her fate...if she's killed, they die, and vice versa?
.

I just googled "Thief werewolf" and Wikipedia said that they steale role.

But that doesn't quite fit with the narration. Of course Sauce may have his own interpretation - and Wikipedia is not infallible.

Izzy seems to be a Gil-stitute.. which wouldn't be so bad if we didn't also, in theory also have Gil.

Shasta hasn't returned either after supplying a vote summary has he?

TGWBS' absence was announced.

It is very quiet and I would have expected this was a reasnable time for people both side of the pond to be active .... but maybe they are indeed not absent

[Rikae]

Guy may have a reason for his absence, but when he did speak, he still seemed slippery. I don't know. If I'm not eaten or assassinated tonight, I'll keep an eye on him.

I suppose it's a bit soon to assume MIA is Izzy's style...if i'm correct, this is her first game. I was largely missing or tardy in my second game, before I realised that WW are serious obligation! If you're around, Izzy, please speak up.

[Nogrod]

This one about Kath still and then I think I try to get down to looking at other things for a change.

Originally Posted by Rikae

About Kath...having been a wolf with her before, I'm beginning to think she's a bit too active to be evil now. In that game she posted enough to seem helpful, but nothing of this kind of volume. Of course, she's certainly smart enough to change her style for just that reason, and the tense feeling pervades even her lengthy posts.

Funny that you mentioned this as my eyes just caught this one from Kath's last mammouth-analysis:

Originally Posted by Kath on Aganzir

Had Menel down as innocent but with it being so early in the game those without extra knowledge couldn't have known he was a wolf. But then, she got xyzzy and Rune down as innocents correctly too. Chance or something more?

Now what is this??? I might understand an innocent newbie saying something like this and then learn from it for the next time. I mean this is just impossible with Kath...

For those not experienced enough the following: Rule #6 for innocents - If you think you find someone acting or behaving like a gifted shut your mouth and do not share it openly to the baddies to notice (it's possible they have not noticed it).

And anyhow. Being right with two persons innocence in a village were there are something like 16 innocents and 4 baddies (or something not very far from that ratio) it's not an actual feat to name two innocents...

Now who does this kinds of things? The cobbler obviously does them. So could it be Kath is a cobbler after all? So we have a cobbler in this village as well?

I do agree with Rikae that Kath is experienced enough to change her style when the previous one looks dangerous to her. And I also think that there was some pressure gathering over her because of her normal "be intelligent but under-radar" -tactics in this particular game and thence she changed... into this sisyfosian errand of making a page-by-bage full analysis of the whole game.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Volo

It all contradicts my views of the preveous Night if Kath was spied on by Durelin and is the Bear. I can't be sure (though I pretty much am), but I think that Durelin was killed for spying the Wolves.

Oh, forgive me. I forgot the them-thing. Yeah. If Dury died because of "thieving" Kath (whatever it is) then Kath is a part of a more than one person baddie-league.

But if Kath is a cobbler then there needs to be some other reason for Dury's death...

Funny. I actually started to follow Kath more seriously only toDay because of the events during the Night to which our only clue (concerning Dury) she was. And this closer reading has led me to think she's a cobbler which kind of destroys any possibility of Kath being related to Dury's death in the first place.

Anyway. This far I think lynching Kath would be a good thing. She's not playing to us delegates but to the evil purposes. At least she's my strongest candidate now.

Sorry about returning to the Kath-issue but I only now noticed Volo's explanation...

Now to other things.

[the guy who be short]

I have just got net access and have read up to the end of page 4. I don't know how long I'll be able to stay, but I thought I'd point this out, from Wikipedia:

The Thief may remove [a] person's role entirely

That's what durelin was. It now seems unlikely that this MADE the wolves kill her. It seems more of a coincidence.

Also, I was wary about Legate yesterday towards the end of the day but never got a chance to post. If I have time, I'll go back and explain why.

[Mithalwen]

To be fair I think Kath may have more time on her hands at the moment.

But I am beginning to worry a bit about Kath. Now she says she doesn't like it when I use "statistical type arguments" but the last time she suspected me I turned out to be the Seer. The last time I also told her I was an accountant so analysing numbers , it isn't exactly out of character - any more than analysing words is. However saying that something has happened without figures is only in the loosest sense a statistical argument.

I am not a Seer this time but given that I did my best to get the known wolf , Menel, lynched , making this tenuous connection does strike me as a bit cobblerish.

I may be making something out of nothing again though - but Kath, historically, is the player I find hardest to read. And I know how good she can be at being bad which may colour my judgement with there being so much feeling against her. And then there is the Durelin thing to factor in... and now I am getting hung up on this and I am beginning to run low on time.... gah...

[the guy who be short]

P.S. Thus far Rikae and Kath "feel" innocent, while Isabellya's vote worries me. That is all.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Noggin

Now what is this??? I might understand an innocent newbie saying something like this and then learn from it for the next time. I mean this is just impossible with Kath...

For those not experienced enough the following: Rule #6 for innocents - If you think you find someone acting or behaving like a gifted shut your mouth and do not share it openly to the baddies to notice (it's possible they have not noticed it).

Well, Nogrod, while I have thought Kath rather suspicious, it seemed pretty obvious here that what Kath is suggesting is not that Aganzir was a seer, but that a lupine Aganzir tied her pack-mate Menel with two innocents to make him look pure as the driven snow in the event of the others' death.

EDIT: By "tied", I mean, of course, linked. The idea being others will associate the three because Aganzir did, possibly without thinking about it.

[the guy who be short]

Looking back with today's knowledge, I can't find whatever it was that made me suspec Legate. In fact, he seems quite sensible and trustable now, which makes me wary of those who voiced suspicion of him today: Lommy, but also Rikae and Kath, whom I have completely changed my mind about now!

Especially this:

Only thing is that it started off as a defense against guy saying he was in fact arguing against Rune when previously he'd said he was agreeing with him. And then he says why not lynch morm, totally getting the wrong stick of guy's argument (at least the way I see it). (Kath on Legate)

Referring to:

Originally Posted by Legate

btw why don't you lynch morm then? It will be the most logical, because he didn't appear yet! (<=this is a joke, of course, but it has logic in it: if I were for the idea you present here, I'd lynch him, since he didn't say anything, point.)

Clearly marked as a joke, and yet she fails to put this on her analysis. In conclusion, my views have gone topsy turvy: now Legate good, Kath bad!

I also do think that Menel would probably try to get us to lynch the quiet if his fellow(s) were loud. So we should be looking for (a) loud wolfie(s).

[the guy who be short]

++KATHWIN

Because she's probably a wolf, and nobody is saying much so I want to go do something else now.

[Mithalwen]

On the subject of worrying votes- why did Nogrod leave his vote so late - given that in the event of a tie the first gets the chop. He literally left it to the last minute. I know he often does but with fixed votes there is less reason too. A ot of brinkmanship going on?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, Nogrod, while I have thought Kath rather suspicious, it seemed pretty obvious here that what Kath is suggesting is not that Aganzir was a seer, but that a lupine Aganzir tied her pack-mate Menel with two innocents to make him look pure as the driven snow in the event of the others' death.

That's perfectly sensible interpretation of Kath's post. Better than mine indeed.

Admittedly there aren't many who think Aganzir suspicious in this village but I guess everyone agrees that she is both smart and cabable. It is a different thing whether Agan is innocent as such but for a cobbler any smart players who are generally thought innocentish are the ones the cobbler would love to drag down...

Thank's to your correction I think Kath looks even more cobblerish right now.

[Mithalwen]

That is a bit peverse TGWBS considering you just said she seemed innocent!

[Rikae]

Actually, I rather suspect Agan. This is what puts me in a difficult spot...Aganzir and Kath both look questionable to me. As do you, for that matter.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I see you explained .... sort of... must stop reading backwards through the thread .. keep getting hold of sticks by the wrong end...

[Aganzir]

The ones of who I have something to say.

Boromir - I'm ready to consider him innocent. During these two Days he has done nothing that should raise my suspicions. I don't think he would have attacked Menel like that if they were both wolves (of course there's a possibility of two different wolf teams, but he isn't very wolvish).

Isabellkya - Didn't agree about lynching quiet ones yet voted xyzzy for not exactly coming back and posting after his first post, when xyzzy and Menel were the only ones in danger of lynching. A first-timer wolf or just a confused newbie? I'm wary about her.

Kath - I'm torn about her. I found her suspicious yesterDay, but toDay she has been looking innocent and came up with some very good points (eg. the possibility of Menel's fellow wolves being quiet players). But. She has also been looking guilty - not as often as she has looked innocent, but especially there are some things in her analyses (I don't remember what exactly, I can check later). She has done two analyses toDay and come across as helpful, but I don't know if a wolf in danger of lynching would make analyses and such and try to confuse villagers before its death.

Legate - YesterDay I thought he didn't say particularly anything, ie. didn't seem to have opinions about people, even though he spoke a lot about possible strategies. But then he voted Menel and that made him look innocent - until the beginning of this Day when someone came up with the possibility of two wolf groups. That has made me suspect him again, but he's not one of my top suspects.

Rikae - On Day 1 she suspected Kath the most from the very beginning, but voted Xyzzy. I don't understand her statement that if Durelin had some sort of a seerish ability, Kath is probably guilty. She said Menel's posts may be our best lead toDay - surprisingly these two never even mentioned each other.

Lommy - She couldn't form a clear opinion of Menel because of his spelling. When reading it I remember thinking "now that's a good way to avoid mentioning a fellow wolf in analysis on the first Day, were they wolves". But I thought Menel and she were both innocent. Now we know Menel was a wolf, and Lommy hasn't said or done anything very suspicious toDay, but this still got me wondering. Then on the other hand she has suspected almost everyone - someone who has played more than I with her please tell if Lommy-wolf would do that?

Volo - I found something worth noticing in his behaviour.
When someone says he has been behaving suspiciously, he thanks them for pointing it out, saying he has forgotten about it and then tells what he has done wrong, in a regretful way. If he's a wolf, it's too easy for him to make himself look innocent by doing that - confessing he's been wrong and being sorry.
See posts #142 and #155.

Of those I'd prefer Kath or Rikae, but I could also vote Isabell (or Legate or Lommy, but I don't think that would be very useful toDay).

edit: xed with too many

[Nogrod]

Please Rikae and Mith. Tell us about whom or what are you talking about in your posts...

If I got it right the "you" in Rikae's post was me and the one Mith referred to as one explaining things was tgwbs, right?

Makes reading much faster if you don't have to deduce the persons discussed.

Please.

EDIT: This is kind of general begging. I guess I had them right at these particular instances with just a little trouble but I remember times when there are ten posts between the target you're addressing (not just you two but all those people who don't say what or who are they talking about).

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Rikae - On Day 1 she suspected Kath the most from the very beginning, but voted Xyzzy. I don't understand her statement that if Durelin had some sort of a seerish ability, Kath is probably guilty. She said Menel's posts may be our best lead toDay - surprisingly these two never even mentioned each other.

I did mention Menel. I told him his spelling was hurting my head.


Anyway, you [Aganzir] appear to be setting yourself up in opposition to me...suspecting those I trust (with the exception of Kath). You better be darn sure I'm either evil, or won't be killed...

EDIT - X'd with Nogrod. Yes, I'm talkin' to you!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Aganzir's explanation for her incomplete analysis seemed shaky and poorly thought out. Not capable? Sorry, Agan, but you can't play the newbie card - you've simply shown too much talent.

Let me explain: it's difficult for me to think about many things at the same time (I guess Lommy could certify this, I know how often she has had to hear me complaining about it). I felt I would go crazy if I had to mix yet Durelin to the whole what-happened-in-the-night thing.

Don't you really have any other reason to suspect me?

[Mithalwen]

Ah but it makes typing quicker if you don't expalin what seems obvious! Yes I sawTGWBS 's vote after I had posted my query about your (Nogrod's) vote timing.
I was suprised enough to reply immediately and then saw he had made a separate post saying his thoughts had gone topsy turvy.

Which I can relate to as we have a lot of conjecture but little certainty. And today seems to have a few people posting a lot and perhaps getting a little fixated.

So far we have three votes cast and all for Kath? Which should mean that there are a lot of folk planning on getting back to vote in the next couple of hours. Which to me also suggest wemay well have lurkers.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway, you [Aganzir] appear to be setting yourself up in opposition to me...suspecting those I trust (with the exception of Kath).

I actually suspect those that I find suspicious, and believe it or not it has nothing to do with your opinions.