Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXVI - Úcenite Valto

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Somehow that quote about known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns comes to mind. (I think someone mentioned it a few pages ago - please do pardon me for not going all the way back to give credit to the right person.)

known knowns: Each player knows (at least we think we do! ) her/his own identity - innocent or werewolf. That's whatever percentage one out of eleven survivors is. If we are being given certain information about the identities of deceased players, that increases what we know.

known unknowns: Each of us knows that we do not know what the other players are. That's a higher percentage than the first point.

unknown unknowns: We can only guess that Fea is messing with our minds/being devious/who on earth knows what?!

Now only the unfortunately deceased Boromir could make a spurious statistic out of my attempt to summarize the situation so far. I've no idea if this is helpful, but I do want to give the Fellowship of the Fool Villagers whatever wisdom I can - Eru knows we need it!

[Mithalwen]

I am here but very briefly ..I have only skim read today's posts and on my reading of the remainder of Day One thought Di would be top priority ... apart from anything else she messed with my head so well in the past...

Fea's narration does suggest Morm was a wolf but better to assume we have two to find....

And Esty - it was me who mentioned the Poet Rumsfeld... btw ..


My vote for BB was half punt in response to the unknown situation ... ...half course of action least likely to cause harm....... had I been a wolf I would erred on the side of not being so attention seeking.. and not giving the rest of you an easy excuse to lynch me in absentia.

I was pleasantly surprised to find myself alive, thought I am sorry the coin flipped the way it did ... viewing the end of Day One's posts Di seemed more suspicious.

I am relieved at least neither were my among my alternative choices ...

More Later ...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Mith

Fea's narration does suggest Morm was a wolf but better to assume we have two to find....

Originally Posted by Eomer

As for Momegil, I'm assuming he was innocent. Nogrod, at least, will see the philosophy in this. What was Mormegil?

Questions about the identity of the substances. Hmm... I'm afraid they do transcend our interpretative horizon as long as we are thrown-into-this-world.

Although I tend to believe Morm was innocent. Feeling stuff. Maybe the other (the one not calling for Morm's death) was trying to kill the other and Fea decided not to kill the other wolf at the first Night?

Or then Morm was a wolf and she appointed a new one to replace him (it read, "her newest slaves"), but anyhow, that speculation doesn't help us much at the moment.

But if we are to read any hints from the narration I would say that the Dark Lady was not impressed with the performance of her minions (truism?). So were they not causing enough confusion? Were they too careful / quiet? Were they / either of them attacking / voting the other? But then again she might be as dismissive of them at the level of character too...

It would at least give some credit to the thought already mentioned by myself and a few others that the wolves might have been careful or quiet on Day1.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by me

I almost got you there at the end, Di! But poor Boro got the axe instead.

Originally Posted by Di

You are very lucky you did not succeed, as standing in the way of my revenge would have shot you right to the top of my "to kill" list.

If I would've succeeded you would've died, and so moving to the top of your "to kill" list wouldn't have mattered.

Originally Posted by Di

Yes, in this game I'm just trying to see how annoyingly petty I can be before people lynch me for the pure frustration of it.

Consider this a friendly warning. Saying stuff like that is going to get you lynched, for it confirms our fears about the WWs- that they have been ordered by Fea to be as chaotic, frustrating, and random as possible to fit with the theme of the village.

And I wish everyone wouldn't have complained about the lack of clarity in the narration. If everyone had just assumed morm's innocence (the likeliest possibility given the percentages) then someone could've matter-of-factly asked Fea to put up a tally on her opening day post. But now that Fea knows it is causing confusion, she is likely to leave it be.

Personally I believe that morm was innocent. Yes, the conversation hints at the Dark Lady's displeasure with her servants, but it seems clear to me that she is displeased with their DAILY activities, not nightly. They weren't wise during the day, and failed in their task of "sundering hearts" somewhat during the day.

And later, she says “I promised you blood to sustain your precarious lives. And blood shall be spilt.” Notice she said she was about to spill blood to sustain "lives", not "life". If she spills the blood of one of her own WWs (kills them) she would be failing to sustain their "lives" with blood, for in the spilling one of the lives would be ended, not sustained.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But if we are to read any hints from the narration I would say that the Dark Lady was not impressed with the performance of her minions (truism?). So were they not causing enough confusion? Were they too careful / quiet?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It would at least give some credit to the thought already mentioned by myself and a few others that the wolves might have been careful or quiet on Day1.

That is not the conclusion that I would draw from the narrative. First, keep in mind that the narrative may be meaningless. But if the narrative is true, then the WWs probably were not timid and quiet on day 1. The Dark Lady tells them that they were "brave" but "not wise". This leads me to believe that the WWs were in the thick of things, but possibly dangerously close to lynching each other, or perhaps dangerously close to getting themselves lynched due to their non-timid behavior.

[Anguirel]

I am around, everyone, reading and thinking, and feeling somewhat drained (though not, perhaps, as drained as mormegil, ho ho ho).

I came today determined to attempt to catch wolves and put feuds to one side. To that end, I am forced to slide to the growing conviction that the phantom is innocent. It's pretty galling, but I'm just about managing.

I think morm was innocent, purely because I think Fea would have made far more drama out of the death of one wolf at another's hands, er, paws. Unless - and this is quite a big unless - Fea has adopted the Diamantine strategy of not telling us about the guilt of the dead. This seems peculiar, though, because she specifically allows ghosts to converse with each other, implying that the dead have nothing further to hide.

I too thought Boromir was probably innocent (though guilty as anything elsewhere, ahem!) but I want to avoid the Gloating In Hindsight symptom so beloved of certain local spectres.

More quite soon, I hope.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

For some reason, phantom, your conclusion makes me think of Diamond. I don't believe her invocation of the Rule either, as there's a first time for everything, including being a werewolf.

[Anguirel]

phantom, in your, for want of a better word, analysis of Fea's narrative, you are either being misleading (no doubt in line with one of those incredibly helpful wolf-trapping ploys of yours) or, the more likely alternative, in my opinion, continuing your trend of maliciously loving mockery towards Ms. Dark Lady.

You read deep significance into lines like "You have been brave, but not wise" to suggest that a wolf, or both, was "in the thick of things" and that one might even have narrowly escaped lynching...an argument which implicates especially, as Esty noted, that naughty minx Audrey. If people start believing this stuff, you'll get her lynched as you failed to do yesterday, and if you're innocent then that's a pity, because I think Diamond is no wolf and your case is bunkum.

I mean, really. You're suggesting that not only is Fea giving us clues in the narration - a course of action that has never been successfully implemented - but that she's actually telling us in what style and quantity they've been posting lately. With the odds already so heavily agains the wolves, I find it inconceivable that the Dark Lady would weaken her entertainment by attempting such a thing.

"Brave but not wise" no more refers to a wolf's playing style than the tears on Diamond's face reflected her feelings about the lynching of Boromir.

[Anguirel]

One other thing I forgot to add - like Nogrod, I find the mention of newest slaves rather worrying. If an extra wolf was to be thrown into the mix, this would I suppose be a valid thing to hint at in the narration.

Could there be some correlation between lynched innocents and new wolves?

On the other hand, the adjective may have been chosen simply to scintillate the spines of the paranoid.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Ang

I mean, really. You're suggesting that not only is Fea giving us clues in the narration - a course of action that has never been successfully implemented - but that she's actually telling us in what style and quantity they've been posting lately.

No. Remember I started by saying this-

First, keep in mind that the narrative may be meaningless.

Only after saying that did I proceed to break down the narrative on the unlikely assumption that everything in it was true and could be used as evidence.

In a normal village I wouldn't even think about using the narrative as a clue. But this is Fea we're dealing with, and I don't think she ever said anything about her narrative being strictly a narrative. Or did she? If I'm wrong please let me know.

But the fact is, in the game I modded, I made sure and announced that my narrations were not meant to be used as evidence. Fea never made such a statement. And seeing as we are blind with no guide, perhaps the narrative is designed to be our lone source of real information.

Of course if that is true then I fully expect that I have come to the wrong conclusion about it, as I'm certain Fea would use every bit of her substantial writing skills to lead us astray.

Originally Posted by Ang

You read deep significance into lines like "You have been brave, but not wise" to suggest that a wolf, or both, was "in the thick of things" and that one might even have narrowly escaped lynching...an argument which implicates especially, as Esty noted, that naughty minx Audrey.

It implicates me too, does it not? And maybe SPM and lmp to some extent. So no, my interpretation of the Dark Lady's words was not meant to point at Di specifically.

It wasn't meant to point to anyone specifically. I was just trying my best to glean meaning from the Dark Lady's words.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Ang

One other thing I forgot to add - like Nogrod, I find the mention of newest slaves rather worrying. If an extra wolf was to be thrown into the mix, this would I suppose be a valid thing to hint at in the narration.

If Fea is truly sprinkling additional WWs into the mix without telling us, then frankly she is flushing the village down the tubes and making the whole thing a complete joke. She would be ruining her own game.

I'm not going to worry about the possibility. Unless Fea tells us she is making new WWs, I'm going to assume that she isn't.

[The Saucepan Man]

Very briefly, as I should be loyering.

Can we please work on the assumption that morm was innocent and that there remain two Wolves, but no additional third one.

All this speculation is just taking up time better spent actually trying to find the Wolves.

With regard to the narrative, I do not discount the possibility that there are clues there, as the Dark Lady herself specifically mentions on her blog the possibility of hidden clues, or pointers at least, being there (ie on her blog). At the same time, she would have to be very subtle to avoid making anything too obvious and spoiling the game, in which case the chances are that we won't find it.

In any event, all this wild speculation is completely pointless. Sure, if there is anything there which you think may credibly provide us with a clue as to the identity of a Wolf, then please feel free to raise it. But all this flimmery and flammery about what the Dark Lady may or may not have meant by particular phraseology is likely to get us nowhere fast (not that we are going anywhere at the moment).

I suggest that we concentrate primarily on what our fellow villagers themselves have said and done is this village, since therein, I should imagine, lie the greatest clues.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by me

Can we please work on the assumption that morm was innocent and that there remain two Wolves, but no additional third one.

I meant to suggest that we work on this assumption unless and until we are specifically advised otherwise.

Darn anti-edit rule.

[Anguirel]

I will be rather irritated if the Meaning of Existence is revealed to us on a blog which my school server blocks...

phantom, your response is adequate, I suppose. I shall return in quite a long while, I'm afraid, with a summary of my thoughts and probably a vote.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by SPM

and your “pessimism” aside (and I can understand what you were trying to achieve here)

Seriously? If so, that's great, so long as you don't tell anyone. Due to this possible recognition as well as a couple other things, I'm going to put you on my innocent list, for today anyway. But if you be lupine, rest assured you won't escape for long.

I'm going to assume the following people are innocent for today.
Ang
Mith
Nogrod
the phantom
SPM

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Of course, anyone other than Elempi may still revoke and re-vote, although a fair few are unlikely to return.

...

Elempi, on the other hand, has done little other than vote twice, with little in the way of solid reasoning in either case. First, on the basis of a grudge, since retracted. And second on the basis of an early declaration of innocence. Problem is, a number of villagers have made bold declarations of innocence (the phantom, Boro and Esty spring to mind). They can’t all be Wolves. And since I consider Diamond’s “declaration” to be part of the early Day 1 “banter”, I find it rather specious reasoning for a vote.

I also rather agree with Eomer that Elempi nicely fit’s the description of “person Fea would be likely to pick as a Wolf”.

And of course there is, as Elempi himself points out, the added factor that I always find him suspicious.

Thou overbite of a shark.

Praytell what reasoning would you have? I am not one to go into loyerly Gobtwiddling for the sake of mere gray matter exercise.

As to "person Fea would likely pick as a Wolf", what player in this game does not fit that description?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by the phantom in post #151

2) I find lmp's votes slightly suspicious. Did he vote for Ang thinking he'd get a counter-phantom-bandwagon vote started? And when it didn't pan out, he threw his weight onto Di. This seems like the smart choice at this point for a WW. Don't vote for the current leaders (me-3, Boro-2), but rather elevate someone else into frontrunner status. Also, lmp's post #128 rubs me the wrong way. There's just something about it... the wording. It reminds me of me when I've been a WW.

In my defense, the Precious Prism to the Eighteenth Power Protested too Prodigeously for my liking. My original vote for SPM was spleen in combination with his "if I were a werewolf" early post. That for D18 based on her unnecessary defense which struck me as likely as not as that of a first time werewolf whose nerves have gotten to her.

Originally Posted by the phantom in the same post

3) My suspicion of lmp leads me to lean towards SPM's innocence. He did change his vote from me to lmp after all. Sauce- did lmp's post #128 make you uncomfortable as well? But I haven't completely cleared you. I'm still wondering if your statement about the rules at the beginning of the village was a ploy. The thing is, the information you gave as far as I understand turned out to be incorrect (WWs are in fact on a team according to Fea), so did you give incorrect info about the WWs so people would think "My goodness- he didn't even know the way the WW role worked. He couldn't possibly be one." But, there is also another ploy that you could've been attempting to execute as an innocent, so I'm up in the air on it. And no, don't ask me to explain the ploy (until after this is over). If I say it then I'll negate its power.

Since I am not a werewolf (I shall say that only once), does SPM therefore seem the more guilty? I also found his early comment on what a werewolf's strategy might/ought to be, quite suspicious, as I mentioned above.

Additionally, you mistake yourself by thinking "if I were a werewolf I would do what LMP is doing", because my typical pattern, as any who have played with me should know by now, is that when I am cantankerous it is because I have no felt need for caution. My most cautiously played games were as a werewolf and as a seer. There are no seers, and I am not playing cautiously.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

There were never, nor will there ever be, more than two wolves. If you weren't a wolf, you won't become one.

Originally Posted by Ang

I will be rather irritated if the Meaning of Existence is revealed to us on a blog which my school server blocks...

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages."

--From As You Like It (II, vii, 139-143)

And about those narrations...

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

My main suspicions remain with Elempi, since I would expect a Wolf on Day 1 to at least try to give some reasoning for their vote, to avoid being challenged for unreasoned voting. The votes of both Eomer and Esty were pretty much unreasoned, but Elempi attempted to explain his reasoning for voting for Di. And, as I noted when I voted for him yesterday, it was pretty poor reasoning. Di was far from being the only villager to have made a point of declaring her innocence before any serious suspicion was cast in her direction. The phantom (in the first post of the day) and Esty did the same, as, effectively, did Elempi and Boro.

Thou metatarsil of a gnat.

Is that the best reasoning you can do? This is what your suspicions are based on? I expect better from you.

Let's see now, why might SPM say that he suspects Elempi?

- he is innocent and is trying to use loyerly reasoning in a setting that fails to give him the needed evidence, so he grasps at straws

- he is innocent and simply always suspects Elempi anyway, so is playing true to form

- he is a werewolf and has chosen his first distractor, which had worked quite well for him according to precedent, keeping the target away from him for three whole days.

Well, I'm not going to let it happen this time. I quit now.

Just kidding.

SPM is just as dangerous in this game as any, whether innocent and a threat to the werewolves, or a werewolf and a threat to the village. The odds are 2 in 13 that he is innocent; but if he is not, he is a most dangerous enemy. Let us take care.

[the phantom]

Did anyone see what the Dark Lady just decreed on the planning thead?

Originally Posted by me

We need victory conditions, Fea.

When two WWs are killed, does the village win?

When the number of villagers equals the number of WWs, do the WWs win?

In order to make this village completely legitimate you must provide victory conditions, for a game/competition/activity without known and attainable objectives is not a real game/competition/activity.

The response-

Originally Posted by our evil mod

You'll find out who wins when there's one person left and I let you know what his or her role is.

You've gotta be kidding.

Does everyone realize what this means? It's possible that by tomorrow both WWs will be dead but we will have to continue on killing each other until we're down to one final player. Or actually, what I imagine the case will be is that we'll kill until there are 2 players left after day 6 and then Fea will flip a coin to determine the survivor.

That's insane. Does this idea drive anyone else nuts?

[The Saucepan Man]

First, some thoughts on morm’s death. It seems to me that he was an excellent Wolfish choice, as his limited participation, his vote for Boro and the fact that he attracted no votes himself left little in the way of a trail. It wouldn’t surprise me if both Wolves selected him. Unfortunately, for these reasons, I think that there is little to learn from his death.

So, I have been trying to work out what other factors may help us to find the Wolves. I came up with the following:

Day 1 behaviour: Would a Wolf have been loud or quiet on Day 1? My own view is that at least one Wolf would have been relatively quiet. With such a noisy village, the likelihood was that the loudest ones would end up at each other’s throats (which is more or less what happened), so (whatever direction the Dark Lady may have given them) there was no real need for the Wolves to stir things up further. I also think it more likely than not that both Wolves would have adopted this approach, as there has been no opportunity for them to coordinate and differentiate their behaviour.

Of course, in a village like this, there are no single-liner, one-post-a-day types. However, there are a number who kept a relatively low profile, and remained non-committal and relatively uncontroversial for much of the day. I have already identified those whom I think most exemplify this modus operandi: Elempi, Eomer and Estelyn. I would add Kath and, possibly, Roa to the list but, although she was relatively quiet, exclude Mithalwen as her Bethberry vote was anything but uncontroversial.

I think overly loud behaviour was unlikely for a Wolf on Day 1 in this game. That applies to the phantom and, perhaps, Diamond.

The others fall in between.

Voting: Unfortunately, a vote for a known innocent tells us less than it would in a traditional game. For the record, those who voted for Boro fall within this category, namely Esty and Diamond (of those still living). From my perspective, Noggie also voted for a known innocent.

More important, perhaps, is the reasons given for the vote. Although, on Day 1, any reasoning was likely to be flimsy at best, I still think that a Wolf would have been more inclined to give a reason for their vote than not to do so, since unreasoned voting tends to attract unwelcome attention. Those who gave little or no reasoning for their vote were Anguirel, Diamond18, Eomer, Estelyn, Kath and the phantom. Those who attempted to provide reasoning were Nogrod, Elempi and Roa (and myself). Mithalwen doesn’t really fall into either category, given her vote for a non-villager.

Wolfish/Un-Wolfish behaviour: This is a general category to catch anything which doesn’t fall into either of the above. Unsurprisingly, I haven’t seen anything (except in so far as addressed above) which I would consider to be particularly Wolfish. As for particularly un-Wolfish behaviour, I am thinking of things that would attract more attention than a Wolf would wish to attract on Day 1. The prime example is Mithalwen’s vote. I would also include the phantom’s general behaviour and (self-servingly ) my misconceived initial attempts at strategy.

Dark Lady’s likely Wolf choices: This is the only other factor that I can really come up with at the moment, and it seems that it probably applies only to one Wolf. My own thoughts are as follows (although I am open to suggestions/debate):

Likely candidates: Diamond18, Eomer, Estelyn, Elempi, the phantom
Possible candidates: Anguirel, Kath, Mithalwen, Roa
Unlikely candidates: Nogrod, The Saucepan Man

I take the phantom’s point about him being too predictable/obvious, but I still think him a quite likely candidate.

Conclusion

Drawing from the above, my current thoughts are as follows:

Main suspect: Elempi
Quite suspicious: Roa, Eomer, Estelyn
Could go either way: Diamond, Kath, Anguirel
Tending to think innocent: the phantom, Mithalwen, Nogrod

Of course, I could be completely wrong, and usually am when I make these lists. And there's not exactly a great deal to go on at the moment. Still, that’s the way I’m currently thinking, based primarily on Day 1 reflections.

I’m going to look in more detail at what has happened so far today, but I probably won’t be back until much later on. Here’s a banker just in case:

++ littlemanpoet

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Praytell what reasoning would you have?

I think that I have set out my current reasoning pretty exhaustively. It's not by any means conclusive, I admit, but, as I said, there's not exactly a lot to go on at the moment.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

As to "person Fea would likely pick as a Wolf", what player in this game does not fit that description?

I think that it is possible to identify those more likely than not to be selected. I have indicated my thoughts, but am open to discussion on the subject.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

My original vote for SPM was spleen in combination with his "if I were a werewolf" early post.

Don't you mean Ang?

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I am not playing cautiously.

Yesterday, I think you did.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

The odds are 2 in 13 that he is innocent; but if he is not, he is a most dangerous enemy.

Surely the odds, taken on pure chance alone, are now 9 in 11 that I am innocent, just the same as anyone else. Or am I missing something here? I would be dangerous (to innocents) as a Wolf, admittedly. But I am not.

Originally Posted by Fea

You'll find out who wins when there's one person left and I let you know what his or her role is.

Originally Posted by the phantom

That's insane. Does this idea drive anyone else nuts?

It would also suggest that, if two Wolves remain at the end, they will be fighting it out to see who wins. Which takes us back to my original understanding of two competing Wolves ...

[the phantom]

Since our resident Dark Lady has not provided us with the usual tally, I will provide one.

THE LIVING-

Anguirel
Diamond18
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Estelyn Telcontar
Kath
littlemanpoet
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Roa_Aoife
the phantom
The Saucepan Man

THE DEAD-

Boromir88 (innocent)- bravely faced the gallows on Day 1
mormegil (innocent)- bled by the WWs on Night 2

On the subject of Fea not telling us when a WW has died, I think it is likely she will at the least tell us of the death of the first WW. Telling us that one has died will not ruin her plans for this village in any way. Telling us when both have died, however, would. And so, I fully expect to be told of the first WW death, but not the second (though she might subtly hint). That would seem to be the intelligent thing for the Dark Lady to do in order to fulfill her goals, and though she is undoubtedly insane, she is not stupid.

Originally Posted by SPM

It would also suggest that, if two Wolves remain at the end, they will be fighting it out to see who wins.

How odd. But you're right.

I've been thinking, and I believe that if it comes down to two WWs or two innocents, Fea will for sure flip the coin and kill one. BUT if it comes down to one WW and one villager, the WW will automatically win. This makes sense. Which leads me to something else-

Originally Posted by SPM

Which takes us back to my original understanding of two competing Wolves ...

Indeed. I totally, completely, and fully agree that if an individual WW wishes to claim victory for himself/herself it is necessary to compete with each other as well as the village, for if it comes down to himself/herself and a villager victory is assured, but if the village is reduced to himself/herself and the other WW, he/she might not survive, and being the only survivor is without a doubt the supreme honor that everyone in this village is vying for.

PS SPM- am I doing well today? Just wink if you think you get what I'm saying.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Does everyone realize what this means? It's possible that by tomorrow both WWs will be dead but we will have to continue on killing each other until we're down to one final player. Or actually, what I imagine the case will be is that we'll kill until there are 2 players left after day 6 and then Fea will flip a coin to determine the survivor.

That's insane. Does this idea drive anyone else nuts?

No, it is what I expected after mormegil's role was not specified... Fea was unlikely ot waive the divine right of moderators . We are her Lab rats and she will want as much amusement as possible. She has waited a long time for this and was so certain on who she wanted ... she has a purpose ...... whether there is any system or code that will allow us to understand or whether we are dependant simply on luck I am not sure.

Personally I am going to roll with it....and see what happens....

[Estelyn Telcontar]

If I have seemed quiet to some of you, it is because I am playing only my second WW game (the first was a year ago, so doesn't really help me much) and do not have the practice and experience to analyze posts, behaviour, and all the factors that you frequent flyers are using. I'm trying to learn from you!

For now, the only feeling I have is about Di; it can be summed up in the quote, "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." However, those of you who are positing that a werewolf would not be as vociferous on the first day could be true.

For some strange reason I can't define, I still trust the phantom. If he really is a WW, he's a good one!

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

.

And later, she says “I promised you blood to sustain your precarious lives. And blood shall be spilt.” Notice she said she was about to spill blood to sustain "lives", not "life". If she spills the blood of one of her own WWs (kills them) she would be failing to sustain their "lives" with blood, for in the spilling one of the lives would be ended, not sustained.

But you ignore the past tense ... to me that indicates that although blood would be spilt as per promise the promise might not be as expected. This game has heavy Shalespearean overtones and promises from witches are not to be taken at face value as anyone who has read the Scottish play will know.... anyway it might be more constructive to concentrate on what the rest of you were saying...since there are so many plausible possible wolves .....

[the phantom]

So, Kath, are you going to step up and start talking or are you going to continue lurking about until we all assume that you're trying to avoid saying/doing anything that would get you lynched?

Cause seriously, if I am completely unable to get any sort of innocent/guilty feeling about you by late today (or early tomorrow at the latest) I'm just going to lynch you (or try anyway).

Here's my current list as of right this very second...

Clearly innocent-
Ang
Mith
Nogrod
tp
SPM

Maybe WWs, but I am starting to form opinions on them and will make up my mind eventually-
Eomer
Esty
lmp
Roa

Maybe WWs, and I'm completely unable to form opinions on them yet-
Di
Kath

[Kath]

Judge away master phantom, I'll make no excuses for not talking. I've been following the thread as it grows, just feeling more like an observer than a player what with the Dark Lady feeding us only snippets of fact as we go along.

Lynch me if you like, I'm of little help right now. It generally takes a good three/four Days before I'm sure of the innocence or guilt of anyone, and there are some here I haven't played with often, so it's taking me a while to get my bearings.

If you desperately want my opinions though you can have them. I think that you and Mith are innocent, the reasoning for you is simply a feeling, for Mith it's the way she's playing.

lmp and Sauce and the spat between them are causing me some worry.

Apart from that I have no clear views, and none of those are exactly clear either.

[Mithalwen]

Oh yes... I wonder if there is any point in us speculating why each of us was chosen? I assume I was to be a loose cannon ... which is not something I am actively trying to be but is often a by-product of my personality ....

[the phantom]

Just keep giving opinions, Kath. That's all I ask.

Originally Posted by Mith

I wonder if there is any point in us speculating why each of us was chosen?

Speculate away. I'm certainly not one to put the brakes on speculation.

Originally Posted by Mith

I assume I was to be a loose cannon

Well, then you had better be a loose cannon. I can't imagine the Dark Lady being kind to someone who isn't living up to what they were chosen for.

I was chosen no doubt because my mere presence would arouse suspicion, and because I'm very loud, and because I am likely to add entertainment value. That's what we are, you realize. We are Fea's puppets, dancing for her delight.

[the phantom]

Betcha anything that last sentence makes it onto Fea's blog.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, I think I was chosen mainly because I so seldom participate in WW games, the trophy bird of paradise in Fea's glass menagerie, so to speak. That keeps this game from being a collection of the usual suspects, who have all played with or against each other many times. Perhaps she thought that would make me less calculable for the strategic experts...

[Mithalwen]

Now he has stopped flirting, the Phantom has got a bit loud and annoying and I am really not sure he is making any sense ... Is anyone else out there? .....

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Perhaps I could draw on the experience of my usual stomping - umm, posting grounds to help me find my way through this confusing mess. Consider the next posts a sideline, for our amusement...

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Do we really have a definitive quote on the number of werewolves by the author of this work? I know the references are contradictory, but which ones would you consider canonical? I for one think that s/he never really decided.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I'd like to have two Ws, please...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm slightly uneasy about this conspicuous *wink, wink* behaviour, most obviously demonstrated by the phantom in his secret exchange with SPM. It's also something Boro did yesterday with Diamond and I think someone else did it as well.

Fair enough, you don't want the wolves to discover your plans, but I'm getting pretty confused by all this secrecy.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Hi! My name is Estelynweniel; I found this site because someone told me about the Elven name generator. I hope to learn a lot about werewolves here.

[Kath]

Well, I never thought I'd see the day but Fea's done it. Esty's flipped!

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Don't you mean Ang?

Oops. I did consider voting for you, but did not. I had forgotten. My bad.
[/QUOTE]

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Surely the odds, taken on pure chance alone, are now 9 in 11 that I am innocent, just the same as anyone else. Or am I missing something here? I would be dangerous (to innocents) as a Wolf, admittedly. But I am not.

Uh, yeah. 9 in 11. Oops again.